DP Ampharos

[umbarsc]

http://www.smogon.com/dp/pokemon/ampharos

[SET]
name: Rain Support
move 1: Rain Dance
move 2: Thunder
move 3: Hidden Power Water
move 4: Safeguard / Reflect / Light Screen
item: Damp Rock
nature: Modest
evs: 252 HP / 76 SpA / 180 SpD

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>A support move in Ampharos' arsenal that has been neglected hitherto is Rain Dance, which Ampharos can set up and exploit with ease. With rain support, Ampharos can take advantage of Thunder, which is approximately 25% more powerful than Thunderbolt and offers a 30% paralysis rate. Hidden Power Water receives a 50% boost in power in the rain, and helps Ampharos take down Steelix and Claydol, two common UU Pokemon that would otherwise wall it. The final slot is to help a sweeper get in safely and ensure its sweep. Safeguard blocks harmful status, and can help Kabutops avoid Weezing's Will-O-Wisp, for example, or allow Omastar to avoid Hypno's Thunder Wave. Reflect is useful so priority attacks like Technician Hitmontop's Mach Punch or Absol's Sucker Punch don't stop your sweep, and Light Screen is useful to sponge Surfs from opposing bulky waters.</p>

<p>The EVs ensure that Ampharos is never OHKOed by Omastar's rain-boosted Life Orb Surf, even after taking Stealth Rock damage into account, making it an emergency check against opposing teams that attempt to exploit your rain and turn it against you.</p>

 

[jumpluff]

Ooh, a year or so back when I vaguely contemplated playing Pokémon competitively, my first starts at a doubles team [lol] was Rain Dance Ampharos XD;

Reflect is useful so priority attacks like Technician Hitmontop's Mach Punch or Absol's Sucker Punch don't stop your sweep, and Light Screen is useful to sponge Surfs from opposing bulky waters.

Oh, and capital R in rain in the first sentence of the second paragraph needs to go too.

 

[jrrrrrrr]

Ugh, I knew the second that Aldaron posted his Rain Dance Articuno set, every UU pokemon that learns Rain Dance would eventually get a set devoted to it. I guess this set would be just as effective as any other thing that gets RD, probably even moreso because of Ampharos' movepool and defensive stability.

As for that last moveslot:

1) I would personally drop Safeguard. Who cares if Weezing Will-o-Wisps you, lol, its not staying in on a special attacker. Preventing paralysis is meh, I don't think that paralysis is a status effect that Ampharos really cares about with its terrible 55 base Speed.

2) Reflect and Light Screen are good, especially since you specifically mention that they will help you beat Steelix and Claydol. I would personally use an EV spread that lets me 2HKO them with HP Water in the rain. I can see them working.

3) I would use Signal Beam as the last move on this set over the moves you have now. You are walled to death by any Grass-type with the moveset you have now.

 

[jumpluff]

Ugh, I knew the second that Aldaron posted his Rain Dance Articuno set, every UU pokemon that learns Rain Dance would eventually get a set devoted to it. I guess this set would be just as effective as any other thing that gets RD, probably even moreso because of Ampharos' movepool and defensive stability.

As for that last moveslot:

1) I would personally drop Safeguard. Who cares if Weezing Will-o-Wisps you, lol, its not staying in on a special attacker. Preventing paralysis is meh, I don't think that paralysis is a status effect that Ampharos really cares about with its terrible 55 base Speed.

2) Reflect and Light Screen are good, especially since you specifically mention that they will help you beat Steelix and Claydol. I would personally use an EV spread that lets me 2HKO them with HP Water in the rain. I can see them working.

3) I would use Signal Beam as the last move on this set over the moves you have now. You are walled to death by any Grass-type with the moveset you have now.

Signal Beam is better, I agree, but maybe this should wait for the official word on Platinum updating then? And agreed, nothing is really going to be trying to status Ampharos, and if your team is really, really status-weak [wow, for once Ampharos is suffering from having only four slots? o_o], Altaria? Also, I don't know about Steelix/Claydol without Magnet Rise... Claydol outspeeds and without Reflect can that Ampharos stand up to EQ/Earth Power?

 

[Havak]

Yeh, Jrrrrrrr, I expected an influx of Rain Dance sets as well, but this one is certainly extremely viable. Ampharos is one of the more sturdy Pokémon that can utilize Rain Dance to good effect, I'm a little surprised that there wasn't a similar move-set on the analysis already.

I'd agree with Safeguard being more of an "Other Options" option, rather than a move on the actual set, let alone being noted first. Signal Beam is a definate first-choice move, but Reflect and Light Screen should also stay. But should we bother adding Signal Beam yet? If it's still going to be a little while before we do Platinum updates, this set could just go with Reflect and Light Screen for now, and Signal Beam can be added at a later date.

I can't really stop any grammatical issues, so this looks good.

Maybe make a small note of Thunder being able to hit through Protect / Detect 30% of the time while Rain Dance is in play (do that in brackets after talking about the Paralysis) as Protect is somtimes used to try and waste a turn of your rain.

 

[jrrrrrrr]

Heh, Magnet Rise might also be a good option on this set, I could see Ampharos pulling it off and getting a few suprise KOs.

Misaki, Signal Beam is already mentioned in the Ampharos analysis. I don't see any harm in including it here.

If Signal Beam somehow winds up not on this set, HP Ice needs to be an option over HP Water. With Focus Blast in its movepool and the fact that Rain will let most of your teammates dominate Steelix, I would say that the coverage against Grassers is key. The reason why Articuno is so good at setting up RD is because it doesn't let Grass-types come in to wall your Rain abuser. Using this Ampharos would be a great lure for your Rain Dance team.

 

[umbarsc]

Ugh, I knew the second that Aldaron posted his Rain Dance Articuno set, every UU pokemon that learns Rain Dance would eventually get a set devoted to it. I guess this set would be just as effective as any other thing that gets RD, probably even moreso because of Ampharos' movepool and defensive stability.

As for that last moveslot:

1) I would personally drop Safeguard. Who cares if Weezing Will-o-Wisps you, lol, its not staying in on a special attacker. Preventing paralysis is meh, I don't think that paralysis is a status effect that Ampharos really cares about with its terrible 55 base Speed.

2) Reflect and Light Screen are good, especially since you specifically mention that they will help you beat Steelix and Claydol. I would personally use an EV spread that lets me 2HKO them with HP Water in the rain. I can see them working.

3) I would use Signal Beam as the last move on this set over the moves you have now. You are walled to death by any Grass-type with the moveset you have now.

The last moveslot, as stated in the comments, is to support the team. I tried to emphasize that this is primarily a team player, it just happens to have moves that can take advantage of what it's setting up.

I think I'll just make HP Ice and Water both options for slot two, so the troublesome Grassers can be dealt with, because yeah, Steelix/Claydol aren't exactly threatening to a Rain Dance team. Although many Swift Swimmers (Omastar, Kabutops, Relicanth, and even Qwilfish) are weak to Ground so forcing Steelix/Claydol out in order to bring something in that the Swift Swimmers can come in on is an advantage of HP Water.

I don't really like Signal Beam because it's only neutral against the most common Grasser (Venusaur).

Edit: fyi, Ampharos learns Signal Beam as a level-up move so it can be included in the anaysis.

 

[Imran]

The EVs ensure that Ampharos is never OHKOed by Omastar's rain-boosted, Life Orb-boosted Surf,

This is a little wordy. Would it not be easier to say something like

"The EVs ensure that Life Orb Omastar will never OHKO with Surf when the Rain is activated"

 

[jumpluff]

This is a little wordy. Would it not be easier to say something like

"The EVs ensure that Life Orb Omastar will never OHKO with Surf when the Rain is activated"

This might just be me personally, but I find that a lot unwieldier...

 

[twash]

^ Same. Just "The EVs ensure that Ampharos is never OHKOed by Omastar's rain-boosted Life Orb Surf," should be fine. Just removing the repeated "-boosted".

 

[Imran]

Yeah it was just the repetition of "boosted" that just didn't seem to flow when I said it out loud. Whether I actually found a problem at all I think Twash suggestion is the way to go.

 

[Colonel M]

I'll add this onto the site umbarsc if you feel that it's done. Just PM me or give me the word on this topic.

 

[SMZ]

I'd like to note that Ampharos already learns Signal Beam via level up. Also, I can see this set working due to the bulkiness of Ampharos and HP Water taking care of Claydol, Steelix and Camerupt.

 

[Caelum]

I don't really get the logic behind Aldaron posted an RD set so now everyone will (and considering that was how long ago?) but whatever.

Just posting to say Signal Beam is a pretty bad option in my opinion and shouldn't really even be mentioned. Let's examine some calcs,

313 SpA Signal Beam vs. 302 HP / 236 SpD Venusaur (4 HP / 0 SpD): 23.84% - 28.15%

313 SpA Signal Beam vs. 292 HP / 216 SpD Vileplume (4 HP /0 SpD): 27% - 31%

313 SpA Signal Beam vs. 302 HP / 236 SpD Meganium (4 HP / 0 SpD): 47.68% - 56.29%

313 SpA Signal Beam vs. 355 HP / 236 SpD Meganium (216 HP / 0 SpD): 40.56% - 47.98% (almost never a 2HKO w/ Leftovers & Stealth Rock).

So, basically, you'd be better off to set up a screen and switch out as Signal Beam isn't even worth it to take on Grass types. HP Ice is pretty bad as well.

Also, Safeguard is a useful option (in my experience of testing this all morning, not a lot but I tested it none the less) so I'm not sure why you guys are against it. Golduck is the counter to rain teams, because it stops there Speed boost. Many teams rely on ThunderWave to stop a Rain sweeper in my experience. Safeguard is a great option to completely shut that down. A lot of teams rely on Sleep as well. I don't see how Safeguard isn't a decent choice at all.

 

[Colonel M]

Okay, so I think it's safe to add this if I am correct. I'll give a little time (two to three hours) to mention a reason why not to or something of the sort.