DP Articuno

[Caelum]

So, one day I was using Sub-Roost Zapdos with Toxic Spikes up. At the same time I was building a UU team and I thought to myself why not do this with Articuno except use Toxic? The most common poison types like Nidoking/Nidoqueen or Venusaur/Vileplume etc. would hate Articuno's STAB Ice Beams. So, this set came out. It's horribly annoying with Pressure (fuck you Stone Edge) and gets me quite a few kills every match (assuming the opponent doesn't leave because they are pissed off). As a side note, whatever happened with Aldaron's Rain Dance Articuno now that I'm looking at the analysis ?

http://www.smogon.com/dp/pokemon/articuno

[SET]
name: SubRoost
move 1: Substitute
move 2: Roost
move 3: Toxic
move 4: Ice Beam
item: Leftovers
nature: Timid
evs: 252 HP / 40 SpA / 216 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
<p>This set is horribly annoying for any opponent to face in UU. Articuno's solid defenses allow it to switch in with relative ease, force a switch, and then put up a Substitute. From there, Articuno can simply Toxic the opponent and continually Substitute and Roost until Toxic takes its toll. Add Pressure into the mix to drain away the PP of moves such as Stone Edge or Fire Blast and your opponent will find this Articuno incredibly difficult to take down.</p>

<p>While you might think the abundant number of Poison-type Pokemon in the UU tier would seem to reduce the efficacy of this set, this is entirely false. The most common Poison-type Pokemon in the UU tier often have a secondary typing that leave them being hit for super-effective damage from Articuno's STAB Ice Beam. Those that aren't hit for super effective damage are either 2HKO'd by Ice Beam or can be PP stalled with Pressure. Casual observation also may lead one to believe that this set is completely walled by Steel-type Pokemon, such as Aggron or Probopass, however this also is false. Articuno is faster than every Steel-type in the UU tier, meaning it is perfectly able to defeat them by PP stalling with Pressure. This set also works fantastically with Spikes and Stealth Rock on the field, since you will have the ability to cause many switches as your opponent attempts to thwart this vicious cycle.</p>

<p>The given Speed EVs allow Articuno to outrun maximum speed Grumpig, enabling Articuno to hit it with Toxic before it can use Substitute. The remaining EVs were placed into HP and then Special Attack. Pouring 252 EVs into Speed will allow Articuno to at worst tie with Pokemon that have a base Speed of 85 and a positive nature. The large Speed investment is important to the success of the set since Articuno needs to outrun the majority of threats and either Substitute or Roost accordingly to effectively Toxic and PP stall. However, if a more defensive spread is desired, 252 HP / 80 Def / 176 Spe with a Bold nature is also a viable spread and still allows Articuno to outrun neutral nature base 75 Speed Pokemon, such as Absol.</p>

 

[Havak]

Poison type should be "Poison-type"

Super Effective should be super effective or super-effective

 

[Legacy Raider]

This set is walled really badly by all Steel types. They aren't affected by Toxic and Ice Beam won't be doing much to them. Probopass comes to mind as it comes in with impunity and sets up Stealth ROck or threatens with Power Gem and Flash Cannon.
But I don't think there is anything you can do to change the set, but perhaps its ineffectiveness against Steels should be mentioned somewhere in the Set Comments?

Great set, kudos.

 

[Bourbon]

Looks very solid, as always. Countered horribly by Steel types, but then again, what Articuno set isn't?

I can't find anything wrong with this. Spell Check doesn't bring up any errors except for names of Pokemon, and the vocabulary is varied.

 

[Aldaron]

Wait, is this really given trouble by Steels in UU?

I'm theorymonning here, but can't Articuno just SubRoost + Pressure PP stall the Probopass out of Thunderbolt, the Aggron / Bastiodon out of Stone Edge and the Mawile out of ThunderPunch?

Looks like an awesome set if it is nearly as effective in UU as Zapdos is in OU, and I have a feeling it might be potentially more effective.

 

[Havak]

Probopass isn't amazingly common in UU from my experience, neither is Aggron and that doesn't have the best Special Defence anyway. Steelix is only neutral to Ice Beam, and nobody uses Bastiodon or Wormadam-S. They can all probably be PP stalled anyway.

It should probably still be mentioned in set comments though...

 

[Aldaron]

I guess this is beaten by Cursing Steelix with Gyro Ball, so that should be mentioned if Steels are mentioned.

The other can all be easily PP stalled.

 

[Havak]

Is that allowed to be mentioned yet? I thought Steelix only got Curse from Platinum and we're still not adding Platinum stuff yet.

 

[Aldaron]

I assumed that we would allow our trustworthy badge members write about it if they felt it was necessary. I mean, I have every intention of writing an updated peer edit for my bulkymence version platinum in about 2 days so...

I don't care either way, though.

 

[Caelum]

Uh, no this set does not lose to Steel type Pokemon. I have never, ever lost to some random Probobass with this set. It requires patience on your part to defeat them but it can be done quite easily. Given that every Steel type in UU is slower then Articuno it can easily stall out Stone Edge / Thunderpunch / whatever and force them to struggle or just beat them since now they just have EQ left or something. Since there seems to be a bit of confusion about this set in that regard I added a sentence about how Steels are beaten by PP stalling (thought the Pressure thing was obvious, guess not). The only Steel type this ever loses to is Curse Steelix (a recent addition anyway), as Aldaron pointed out, and even then if requires an intelligent player so they don't waste Stone Edge / Gyro Ball's low PP. I'll wait for a site staff (or I'll just ask one of them) to comment about Curse Steelix though. If it's no go for now (since it should be mentioned), I'm going to make a note to myself to add in a line about Steelix later on when Platinum updates start.

Edit: Oh, and thanks guys for the positive feedback. It is a really cool set. I'm just worried UU stall teams with use this now since I don't want to have to deal with it :(. And I made those small changes btw Havak.

 

[Bourbon]

Power Gem has 32 PP, Stealth Rock has 32 PP, Earth Power has 16 PP, Toxic has 16 PP. That's about the same as this Articuno has if you factor in Pressure.

So, technically, Probopass could Power Gem until you're at low enough health that you couldn't Substitute, and Toxic you when you Roosted. So while Aggron and Steelix can't really beat you, Probopass could.

If it really got down to it, Probopass could just "Stealth Rock! But it failed!" and make you waste a bunch of PP.

 

[cim]

I think you can write about Platinum counters (it's not like the theoretical DP only metagame exists any more, why would we sit here for 2 months pretending it does?)

The best part about this set is that with Aggron or whatever you just Sub until Stone Edge inevitably misses. Haha, take that, fucker! That or just stall for 4 turns as it runs out of PP faster than you can blink.

 

[Caelum]

I guess that's possible Skiddle, but in practice I've never not PP stalled it successfully. Also, consider that Power Gem is never going to OHKO Articuno so I won't have to use Roost or Substitute every time I predict a Power Gem coming which further cripples it's PP. It's more of the fact that it getting hit with Toxic is going to lose, but that's the fault of the player not the set itself. I do understand your point though Skiddle, I'll wait to hear other feedback before altering anything though.

 

[Bourbon]

No no no, I'm not saying "change it" I was just pointing out how steel types kind of cause problems... it was more of an idle comment than anything ; )

 

[Goodbar]

I faced a Zapdos with this exact moveset the other day in an OU match, wasn't pretty... so I have to imagine Articuno works pretty well too with his above average stats.

 

[Caelum]

Ah, misunderstood you skiddle. :p

@Mr. Goodbar: And yes, some Zapdos do run an extremely similar set. Although, I personally think Articuno does it more effectively in its respective tier.

 

[Blue Kirby]

Just a note - we don't ever use "super-effective", it is always two words. You also use a hyphen if you have "type" after a Pokemon's type (ie. Poison-type).

You can use this as a reference if you're ever unsure.

<p>While you might think the abundant number of Poison-type Pokemon in the UU tier would seem to reduce the efficacy of this set, this is entirely false. The most common Poison-type Pokemon in the UU tier often have a secondary typing that leave them being hit for super-effective damage from Articuno's STAB Ice Beam. Those that aren't hit for super effective damage are either 2HKO'd by Ice Beam or can be PP stalled with Pressure. Casual observation also may lead one to believe that this set is completely walled by Steel-type Pokemon, such as Aggron or Probopass, however this also is false. Articuno is faster then every Steel-type in the UU tier, meaning it is perfectly able to defeat them by PP stalling with Pressure. This set also works fantastically with Spikes and Stealth Rock on the field, since you will have the ability to cause many switches as your opponent attempts to thwart this vicious cycle.</p>

<p>The given Speed EVs allow Articuno to outrun maximum speed Grumpig, enabling Articuno to hit it with Toxic before it can use Substitute. The remaining EVs were placed into HP and then Special Attack. Pouring 252 EVs into Speed will allow Articuno to at worst tie with Pokemon that have a base Speed of 85 and a positive nature.</p>

 

[jrrrrrrr]

You might want to suggest a more defensive EV Spread. I haven't personally tested this set in UU, but when I used SubRoost Zapdos in OU I preferred a bulkier spread so that Zapdos could actually regain ALL of its health + SR damages to keep a Roost cycle going against even really strong opponents. Articuno is still 2x weak to rock moves and gains a Fighting weak when using Roost, and you'll be coming in at 50% health much more often than not. I think a much bulkier defensive spread must exist somewhere, although I don't deny the benefits of having all of that speed. Timid just seems like a weird nature for a stall oriented pokemon to me =\

 

[Caelum]

fixed BK. Thanks. Bookmarked that post for future reference.

Any other comments?

Edit: J7r, stop posting when I'm typing!

Actually, it's interesting you should bring that up. I originally had a more defensive spread but I found it's more beneficial to get a fast Substitute or Roost or Toxic. It's kinda like Lugia (lol), the Speed is part of it's defensive abilities. It takes hits well enough in my experience, you'd be surprised. But yes,I'll dig up my old more defensive spread and mention it in set comments. I think I had a Bold nature and I hit some Speed benchmark. Sound alright J7r?

 

[Aldaron]

Do that quickly and get this on the scms Caelum. This is good enough to go up now.

 

[Stellar]

I know this might seem trivial, but unless the SpA EVs are doing something really important, why not just bump the Speed up a few points to 294 (248 EVs) in order to beat Skuntank? It just seems more beneficial to outspeed everything that Articuno can outspeed with this set.

 

[Caelum]

Done Aldy. You can put it on SCMS if you want but isn't there some 48 Hour rule or something from time of posting? And just so j7r knows I'm not comfortable with suggesting a slower spread then that since it really goes down hill from there.

@ Stellar: The 40 SpA EVs allow Articuno to 3HKO Steelix (252 HP / 136 SpD Impish) on average with SR damage. Not to mention about 40% of Skuntank are Scarfed anyway and 80% of them are Adamant (according to DJD's stats). I'm not sure it's that important to outrun Skuntank since it's forced to Explode if it wants to beat you anyway. I don't know.

 

[Invective]

Articuno is faster than every Steel-type in the UU tier

small nitpick that i noticed.

 

[Caelum]

Alright, I think this is ready to go. I'll load it to SCMS in about 30 minutes or so after I give this another run through for grammar stuff. I've seen 6 of these today so I feel accomplished lol. Any other comments though?

Edit: Random, but I lost my ladybug now, me sad now :(.

 

[Aldaron]

moving to peer edit archive then

also

<ryubahamut> bit of a badging "bug", misty -- caelum has ladybug and shoddy moderator simultaneously.
<Misty> fixed
<Misty> if caelum asks where his ladybug went i'll tell him it's your fault :)
<ryubahamut> lol :)