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DP Battle Tower Records

Discussion in 'Smogon's Greatest Hits' started by Peterko, Sep 20, 2007.

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  1. Peterko

    Peterko Never give up!
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    OK, Viper´s (VipStar´s) record (the guy I wrote about a few days ago) ended at freaking 914, yeah I´m not kidding...does someone have a problem with putting him on the list?

    THIS IS NOT MY RECORD, IT´S VIPER´S

    translating his post from a different forum:

    So.. My run is over it ended at 914

    my teams:

    1. til cca. 300 wins I had:

    Typhlosion
    @Choice Scarf
    Modest
    - Eruption
    - Flamethrower
    - Hidden Power {Electric} [70]
    - Earthquake
    EVs. Sp.At 252 Speed 252 Attack 6
    Is a nice starter and did it´s job pretty well. Also kills the ugly hail tree xD

    Blissey
    @Leftovers
    Bold
    - Softboiled
    - Counter
    - Toxic
    - Ice Beam/Thunderbolt
    EVs: 252 HP/252 Def./6 Sp.Def
    Stalls other stalling things and counter is always funny.

    Cresselia
    @Prunusbeere (I think Lum)
    Bold
    - Rest
    - Sleep Talk
    - Charge Beam
    - Ice Beam
    EVs: 252 HP/200 Def/58 Sp.Def
    Rest doesn´t depend on the weather and heals status, sleep talk uses attacks even if there are no PPs on the moves...blocks nasty fighting pkmn that could hurt blissey...


    2. After around 300 wins I´ve only switched the starter and had gengar for a period of time...

    Gengar
    Timid
    @Focus Sash
    - Thunderbolt
    - Hidden Power Ice 70
    - Destiny Bond
    - Shadow Ball
    EVs: Speed and Sp.At 252/ 6HP
    Should be clear...

    3. Then between around 400 to 500 I had

    Metagross
    Adamant
    @Life Orb
    - Earthquake
    - Meteor Mash
    - Thunderpunch
    - Explosion
    EVs: 252 At./252 Speed/6 HP
    What´s not beaten or could get nasty like other cresselia, blissey etc. is exploded on

    4. from around 500 til cca. 800
    I used Lucario

    Lucario
    Adamant
    @Focus Sash
    - Swords Dance
    - Close Combat
    - Extremspeed
    - Bullet Punch
    EVs: 252Att-Speed
    Swords Dance once and it sweeps almost everything, if you manage to SD twice you can sometimes get a 3-0 pretty easily
    Focus Sash on the starter is always useful IMO...

    5. After 800 I still had Lucario in my team but not as my starting pkmn but as no. 2, my starter was zapdos which looked like this:

    Zapdos
    Timid
    @Focus Sash
    - Rain Dance
    - Thunder
    - Thunderbolt
    - Hidden Power {Grass} [67]
    EVs: 252Speed-Sp.At
    Focus Sash to be sure to make rain, thunder hits also oponents who used double team, hp grass kills whiscash, quagsire etc.

    The team looked like this
    Zapdos
    Lucario
    Blissey

    Was pretty much the best team of all, I have to say...

    how I lost:

    I switched the starter, Lucario at #1 and Zapdos at #2 because in previous rounds I always faced hail teams with abomasnow and rock teams...

    Story:
    CPU Oponent´s Team:
    Blaziken, Rampardos, Tyranitar
    My Team:
    Lucario, Zapdos, Blissey

    Blaziken used double team
    Lucario used close combat and it missed...
    Blaziken used double team
    Lucario used close combat for 80-90% damage
    Salac activates
    Blaziken used reversal
    Lucario fainted
    -------------------------------------
    Zapdos comes out
    Blaziken used double team
    Zapdos rain dance
    Blaziken used double team
    Zapdos used thunder
    Blaziken fainted
    ----------------------------------------
    Foe sends out Rampardos
    (I was a bit confused and didn´t know what to do and switched to blissey -.- )
    Blissey comes out
    Rampardos used stone edge - missed
    Blissey used ice beam CH
    Rampardos holds onto its focus sash
    Rampardos used earthquake
    (Blissey at cca. 65HP)
    Blissey used ice beam
    Rampardos fainted.
    ---------------------------------------
    Tyranitar comes in, whips up a sandstorm
    Tyranitar used stone edge CH
    Blissey fainted -.-""
    ---------------------------------------
    I send out Zapdos
    score 1:1
    I accidentally clicked...
    Zapdos used thunder - missed
    Tyranitar used stone edge - CH
    Zapdos holds onto its focus sash
    Zapdos is hurt by sandstorm
    Zapdos fainted
    ----------------------------------------
    Yea I think without the missclick (I wanted to use rain dance) I would´ve probably lost anyway except if stone edge had missed... I actually wanted to achieve 1000... Well in doubles I´m still in xD

    NOTE: you can find the proof-pic at the bottom of the page here http://www.animeg.de/forum/a/thread.php?threadid=67655


    EDIT: the two pics from my post below (#282)

    http://img147.imageshack.us/img147/7972/dsc00047lk7.jpg

    and

    http://img152.imageshack.us/img152/1286/dsc00051ei4.jpg
  2. Jugrenae

    Jugrenae

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    Nice.. I only got up to 53 :P

    How much BP do you have? rofl.
  3. owac

    owac

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2007
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    126 and still going fine

    my team is:

    breloom (M)@toxic orb
    jolly
    ev: 6hp /252 attack/252 speed
    iv:23/ 25/ 1/20/31/26
    -spore
    -substitute
    -seed bomb
    -focus punch

    i know that his iv are low but this guy has win many fights by himself. he can defeat anything slower, even with a x4 resistense because they can`t touch him, the only things that can defeat him (apart faster pokes that actually attack instead of bump stats) are quick claws and the annoying double teamers (with attacks, because status are absorbed by the orb)..
    if the rival is most likely to be faster commonly have SE moves, and meta can cover almost all the weakness (is very weird that the Computer pick a nve move like EQ)except fire, and garchomp is there to receive the hit.. i can sacrifice breloom if i need a free switch for garchomp

    my breloom reach 130 speed and i try to play safe, any poke that may be faster mean a switch out, becuase if the last pokes are slower then breloom can always come back to save the day

    metagross @ lefties
    adamant
    evs: 128 hp/252 atack / 128 speed
    iv: i can remember them and im too lazy to check right now but i got it here in smogon XD
    -meteor mash
    -bullet punch
    -EQ
    -thunder punch

    resist almost anything in BT.and can outstall the anoying toxic/DT combination. i still remember a pp war against a toxic/DT/ingrain/stockpile cradily.. gar help me back there, but meta was the real hero. i was about 2 or 3 pp to lose that battle. just because the first MM fail in the first turn and then the Cradily start to DT.. anyway after like 80 or more turn (the damn thunder punch paralize the plant saving him some pp >.<...) cradily struggle to death ^^

    garchomp(F) @choice band
    jolly
    ev: 6hp /252 attack/252 speed
    iv:HP: 24 - 25/ 31/31/x/ 10 - 14/ 31
    outrage
    EQ
    crunch
    Fire fang

    what i can say? .. i known that hp and SD aren´t perfect but this girl can kill with brute force almost any poke in BT and can take neutral hits very well , she survive a EQ from a trick room claydol and then another EQ from Rhypherior with 16hp even she can survive ice shards from weavile ^^

    thats all, if the starter poke is slower than breloom i ussually get two free kills (or 3 if i still have the sub up or the pokes are slower) i try to mantain a sub up, even if that mean to sleep a one hp poke instead of just kill it so i can spore or attack the next poke for free.

    meta an garchomp can take almost any hit except for a unexpected CH and come back with a OHKO or 2HKO. Meta is my safe choice whenever i dont know what the enemy is going to do, with that ev spreed he can take some special attacks as well and most EQs are 3HKO with lefties

    so far the things that always put my in the edge, are the damn QC activating in the wrong times.. and DT.. but with inmunity to toxic in meta and breloom (also burn thanks to toxic orb) i can manage to outstall

    also i lose at 53 in multi battle using the same meta and a fakeout/u turn ambipom.. thanks to my stupid computer partner that prefer to stat up instead of win>.<
  4. Zephyrman

    Zephyrman

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    Peterko, the picture Viper posted as proof is edited...

    Check out the 9.

    I don't know about the 357 or whatever it is, I'm tired and blurry eyed as it is so maybe someone else can decide.

    EDIT: Ok so I think the 3 on is edited too.
  5. Invective

    Invective

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    yeah, the the entire area around the numbers is a different color than the normal white background. also, the 9 on the bottom is shaped differently. the 3 is also edited, the two threes dont even look the same. the 3 on the bottom is more curved at the end.

    EDIT:
    okay, upon further inspection, hbdragon is right about the overlap. however, this does not change the fact that the two threes do not look the same.
  6. hbdragon88

    hbdragon88

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    Okay, the 9 looks really bad, but the 357 isn't that bad. The "14" when examined under greater detail also have dark pixels, just like the "3." Of course it may be that both are edited. Also, the 5 does not overlap the 3, and the game spaces the letters tightly; I compared it with Jumpman's image, where the 8 and 2 are equally as close together as the 3 and the 5.

    Peterko, ask the guy to take a higher-res image.
  7. Peterko

    Peterko Never give up!
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  8. venom_prince91

    venom_prince91

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    Those pictures look a lot better.

    Wow, I just hit 105 wins. I'm so pleased with myself. I managed to avoid most hax moments, but I was generally smarter with the BT this time through.

    I used Jump's team, and the IVs are sub-par. Just goes to show how easy it actually is.

    Anyway, I was wondering, has anyone seen a shiny in the BT yet?
  9. Zephyrman

    Zephyrman

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    Yeah those pics do look a lot better. One way of being 100% sure is to ask him to video it and upload to youtube or somewhere.
  10. Taylor

    Taylor stardust infinite
    is a Team Rater Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus

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    That's very, very impressive. 914 is unbelievably fantastic, and it now looks like TRE has something to do this Easter. ^_~
  11. hbdragon88

    hbdragon88

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    Those images look much better. Mad props to him for such zeal and dedication. The best I've done is run through 475 rooms in about 28 separate runs to try to get a Gold symbol, never achieving it (closest I got was 66 rooms).

    Also, what kind of cell phone does he have? Those are some...really....awesome pictures.
  12. DougJustDoug

    DougJustDoug Knows the great enthusiasms
    is a member of the Site Staffis an Artistis a Programmeris a CAP Contributoris an Administratoris a Battle Server Admin Alumnusis a Smogon IRC SOp Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnus
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    That 914 win streak is so incredibly long -- I really don't know what to make of it. I honestly have a very hard time believing it. I've seen as much of the battle tower as anyone here. I have fought literally thousands of battle tower matches. I have used dozens of different teams and I have faced almost every pokemon on the BT threat list. I have stated in the past -- If you can win 100 battles, you probably have a good enough team to beat everything in the battle tower -- barring AI hax. Yes some teams can recover from hax better than others, and that IMHO, is the key differentiator between great BT teams (like Jumpman's for example) and other decent squads.

    In my experience, and after reading all the various posts in the two BT threads here at Smogon -- the AI will eventually hax you and your streak will end. It's inevitable. The question is -- When? Before TRE posted his massive streak, I figured the realistic upper limit for a streak to be somewhere around 200 wins. I know there is no limit, but that's the amount of wins I think I have reasonable shot at achieving with a great team, near-flawless play, and a fair amount of luck.

    When TRE hit 300+, it was shocking. But, when you look at his team -- it is brilliantly constructed to completely abuse the tower AI. It's fantastic. If you read any of TRE's posts from the BT (all gens actually, not just DP) it is very obvious that TRE has a keen understanding of how to successfully defeat ingame AI challenges. I learn something new almost every time he posts. I have no problem believing TRE's record. When I look at the team and look at his explanation, it makes sense. I really don't need to see a picture to know it is real.

    I'm not going to name names, but I've seen several streaks posted here that make me doubt their veracity. Sometimes, I doubt the team. Sometimes, I doubt the credibility of the trainer, based on their explanation of their battle strategy. I don't think I'm the only one. There's no way to really prove or disprove any of it, so I don't post my doubts here. Since luck is a big part of the BT, I always allow for the possibility that even a sub-par team and trainer could get extremely lucky and stumble upon a long streak.

    In reading Viper's posts, he certainly appears to know about the BT. But, he doesn't really have anything in there to justify how he achieved such an amazing streak. When TRE blew everyone away, my reaction was, "I gotta see this." -- and I did. TRE's results were markedly different than everyone else, because his team and battle strategy was remarkably different than everyone else.

    When I read Vipers posts, I don't see any "secret sauce" in his winning recipe. He got to 300 wins with Typhlosion and two walls? That just doesn't make sense to me. Sure, he could have gotten very lucky. Or maybe he's just an incredible battler. I just can't intellectually justify it. Then after 300 wins, he began switching up his team every hundred wins or so (like 100 wins is no big deal) using an assortment of regular OU standards (Gengar, Meta, Luke, Zapdos) and didn't miss a beat. Finally, after posting a streak an order of magnitude larger than the best streaks I've seen here -- he got beat by some run-of-the-mill DT hax and a misclick on a move.

    I guess maybe Dbond Gengar and SDLuke could tear through some stuff. Both of those pokes are certainly very effective in the tower. But 900 wins? I've used every form of Meta imaginable. He is a hoss in the tower, but there is LOTS of stuff that give him problems. Zapdos is a really nice poke too. But getting a legend with the requisite IV's to succeed in the Battle Tower is not easy. Even if you have a spectacular one, is it 900 wins spectacular? That's a stretch.

    All of this is certainly possible. And I believe the picture has not been doctored. But, pictures are not really proof. I can AR any streak number I want in ten seconds. That's why I always look at the story behind the streak to make my personal judgment call.

    I don't think Viper is a noob. And I don't think I am the world’s best BT battler. You can look at the history of the BT threads and see some of the dumb stuff I have done in the battle tower. When people post a really long streak, I usually expect to learn something new. This streak is so outrageously long, I would expect Viper to unveil a side of the game that I've never seen before. Instead, it's fairly meh. Use OU pokes, switch up the team when you get bored.... = 900 wins.

    I can't prove that it's a lie. And I can reason through some extenuating circumstances that might make it true. But does it "feel" like the truth? Absolutely not. If someone has a different take on it, please help me understand.
  13. Hazmat

    Hazmat

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    Wow Doug, just wow. That's everything I wanted to say and then some.
  14. cmg474

    cmg474

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    My old record of 128 is still on the list.

    The main thing that keeps me from believing the 914 is that he kept switching his team around. It seems like it would be very risky to do that. And it would be tedious too if he took the time to make sure the team was solid in theory before trying it out. With more teams there's a higher chance of running into an overlooked threat. If I was at that high of a streak there's no way I would risk testing new teams.

    Amazing job if it's true though.
  15. DougJustDoug

    DougJustDoug Knows the great enthusiasms
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    Sorry about the wall of text there. But everyone has been just kinda saying "Good job, Viper.... I guess?...." And this record is probably going to be posted. I just wanted to acknowledge the elephant in the room, while explaining all of the subtleties in the accusation.
  16. Little Green Yoda

    Little Green Yoda

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    Congrats on your modship, DJD. And good, detailed post.

    I definitely agree with the "Why would you change teams in the middle of a hot streak" logic but assuming your teams are tested, would it be a good idea to rotate teams every so often? Does the AI "adapt" like in past games by giving you worse matchups based on your team? I seem to recall seeing a lot more Ice Beamers when I ran Salamence and a lot more Heracrosses when I ran Latios in the Ruby Tower. Could there be a strategical advantage in switching teams during a single streak?
  17. hbdragon88

    hbdragon88

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    Sure, you can certainly hack your way and mak for some wins. But, we just trust that he's telling the truth, and that the "you're a loser if you have to cheat to be at tops" thing is strong enough to dissuade people from cheating, or at least bragging about it. If we assume that his 304 streak is authentic, he has already demonstrated that he can achieve at least 300 without exploiting the AI.

    Realistically speaking, if he just wanted to cheat, he could have done something more realistic, such as 350 or something, to just barely top TRE (er, assuming that he knows about TRE; it's not too much of a stretch to assume someone said, "Hey, great job on 304, but this TRE dude on Smogon has 330"). Sometimes cheaters overdo themsevles and cheat too much by faking absurdly long streaks. In a twisted reverse kind of tortured logic, I think that the fact that the streak is so long, it means that the likelihood that he cheated is much smaller than it if it was much shorter, like 350.

    In the abscene of proof that he cheated, the only thing we can realistically do is to simply pat his back and say, "Good job."
  18. Shiny Crobat

    Shiny Crobat

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    Wow, I just copied a pic to see if it was possible to fake one with paint. And WOW, it's so easy. It's just pixels, nothing more than that. No photoshop, just paint.
  19. Hazmat

    Hazmat

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    So for the second paragraph, you are saying that he couldn't be cheating because if he was, he'd be cheating harder than anyone with a logical, persuasive bone in their body? Can't say I haven't seen it before...

    I'd love to have a conversation with this guy, and see just what amazing strategy he has for doing so well besides "lol ou, but I switched around my guys too". There has to be a reason for winning 400+++ matches over anyone else. If it IS luck (and I'm not discounting that it is) he should be entering every damn raffle, lotto, and casino within a 900 mile radius of his residence.
  20. Peterko

    Peterko Never give up!
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    first of all, I´m not here to judge, I´m here to post records ;)

    ...now this has become an interesting discussion and I like it (at least this topic is not dead)

    TRE´s record team is good, but I wouldn´t say brilliant, I mean he still needed immense luck to pull it off, which he also stated - wasn´t flinched once in like 20-30 hits which absolutely kills countergar etc., plus he lost because he made a bad decision not because of luck (his streak could´ve been much higher if he played flawlessly)

    well, I have another info which, I think, will probably "satisfy" the non-believers even more, like when I found out that Viper didn´t know there was a DP moveset tower list until I told him (he asked "like the one you made for emerald?")...I don´t see this as a problem though, if you play hours and hours everyday for months you´ll get to know the sets anyway, he says he needed two and a half weeks for this record btw.

    my theory is that nintendo germany cheats and lowered the AI hax or something :D it´s crazy and hard to believe that you don´t get QC/sheer cold haxed in 900 battles - I mean this happens to me currently on a regular basis at #60 to #80, on the other hand I achieved 285 back in emerald double battle tower on my first real try and felt like I couldn´t lose until I was crazy haxed to death by brightpowder and QC explosion and CH etc.

    as for his record and a "cheater show-off connection", he didn´t know about this smogon topic, at all, he didn´t even know about TRE´s record until I showed him the link to this topic (he was way higher at the point)...he wouldn´t even care if I posted his record here or not, I´m not here to defend him but at this point I don´t have a reason to not believe him

    DJG you can´t blame him for being lucky, I mean someone has the luck and someone doesn´t, for example I did have the most information about the battle factory back then because I was so frustrated that I couldn´t get gold in over hundred tries that I´ve started to write down all the movesets...and still, my best record was 48 IIRC and I got over 42 only twice, which was very disappointing because there were people who managed 50+ without knowing shit about the factory

    I believe that if I play as many times as Viper did in the past few months I´m sure that at least once I won´t get haxed until a high record, because seriously I am confident enough to say that I don´t make mistakes

    there is no perfect tower team (let´s wait til jumpman pulls a 500+ streak with his next incredibly thoroughly planned team :D ), in the meantime I´m trying something out myself
  21. Invective

    Invective

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    this was the same thing i was thinking. my cell phone camera takes pictures worse than the picture first ones viper posted.
    anyways, these one look legit, so i guess ill trust him. so, i guess i ll say good job to him now.

    good job viper.

    well, that felt good.
  22. VipStar

    VipStar

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    The cell Phone is a Sony Ericsson K850i Cyber-shot with 5.0Megapixel camera.
    The Record is not with a AR cheated!
    Im not the Viper of the Blacklist! My Friendcode is: 356588568117

    Sorry my english is not very good..
  23. rokuta

    rokuta

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    nice job
    i can't even make a serious attempt cause my pokes are craptastic
    if the pioneer of the breeding guide believes you, I believe you...
    ...you seem like a decent guy anyway...
  24. DougJustDoug

    DougJustDoug Knows the great enthusiasms
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    I don't believe that Viper cheated. For all the reasons Peterko and others have posted. I mentioned "feel" earlier. Based on all the surrounding information and circumstances of the streak, it doesn't "feel" like he's cheating or lying. The only reason I mentioned an AR in my earlier post, was to deflect any possible comments that the picture itself was proof. I actually don't care about pictures either way.

    I cannot reasonably explain or understand this streak. From what I can see, it had to be one of the following two explanations: 1) The most incredible streak of luck imaginable 2) Cheating. Peterko introduced a third possibility -- different AI in the German game. I hadn't considered that, but it is possible.

    The main reason I posted all that detail and backstory, was to ask everyone if there is any intellectual way you can explain this streak, other than luck or cheating. Because I can't. And I think I know the singles Battle Tower inside and out. If it was luck, then so be it. But, if there is a skill-based explanation that I missed -- I want to hear it. Not because I demand an inquisition or I want the record to be marked with an asterisk. I want to know so I can use the strategy myself.

    If the strategy is to use Gengar, Luke, Meta, and Zappy -- I know that strategy as well as I'll ever know it. If I use it, I'll probably die in the 70-110 range, like most other "straight up" teams. If I get really lucky and play well, maybe 150+. I don't see myself ever getting anywhere near 900 wins with it.

    So, just to be clear. Viper -- I don't think you are a cheater. If you are, you are the most humble, unassuming cheater ever. I also don't think you are that lucky. I think there is some other explanation. But, for the life of me -- I can't figure it out.
  25. lockon

    lockon

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    New team I've been trying out, and it has been working great. Currently at battle 133, and still going.

    Lucario (M) @ Focus Sash
    Ability: Inner Focus
    EVs: 4 HP/252 Atk/252 Spd
    Adamant nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - Swords Dance
    - Close Combat
    - Crunch
    - Extremespeed

    Amazing lead and will always get the opponent's lead, wether it's by using Swords Dance + Close Combat, or by using Close Combat + Extremespeed. There's a good chance I can sweep at least 2 pokemon if I can get off a Swords Dance. If my Sash is still untouched after the Swords Dance, nothing stops me from sweeping the whole team. Believe it or not, but this actually manages to sweep quite a bit, even at battles above 100.

    Garchomp (M) @ Choice Scarf
    Ability: Sand Veil
    EVs: 4 HP/252 Atk/252 Spd
    Adamant nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - Outrage
    - Earthquake
    - Stone Edge
    - Fire Blast

    Standard Garchomp, cleans up anything after Lucario has been taken out. I don't feel like rebreeding/retraining one that has less speed EVs and more HP EVs, like Jumpman's Garchomp, but this does the job fine.

    Suicune @ Chesto Berry
    Ability: Pressure
    EVs: 252 HP/252 Def/4 SAtk
    Bold nature (+Def, -Atk)
    - Calm Mind
    - Rest
    - Surf
    - Ice Beam

    If Lucario and Garchomp fail, or if I'm not sure if Garchomp can clean up, I bring in this. It Calm Minds up and then sweeps with Surf / Ice Beam. Pressure Ability is amazing, as it can easily outstall those Double Teamers (I've done this a couple of times).
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