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DP Battle Tower Records

Discussion in 'Smogon's Greatest Hits' started by Peterko, Sep 20, 2007.

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  1. -Marcel-

    -Marcel-

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    I had a lot of situations that the bronzong knocked out my Starmy and i came in with TTar. I couldnt OHKO him and he uses Trickroom. He KOs me with Gyro Ball. I sent in Chomp and i KOd the Bronzong. After that every time an ice pokemon comes out who kills Chomp in one blow. Its not especcially Gallade. But the whole TR. There are a lot bulky TR pokemonteams that can 2HKO al of my pokemon while i cant 2hko them back. Thats the reason why i switched the fragile Starmie for the bulky Suicune. He can set a sub while that anoying trick room pkmn are trying to hypnotise me or they start with double team. After a few calm minds i can OHKO stuf like Bronzong. I didnt find any other problem. Only the Trick room teams are hard to took down. I laugh at stuff like torterra etc..

    I will ask you to replace your Starmie for Suicune just to see how its work. It works great.
    Use Starmie till around trainer 35 cause walling weak pokemon with Cune is boring.
  2. DougJustDoug

    DougJustDoug Knows the great enthusiasms
    is a member of the Site Staffis an Artistis a Programmeris a CAP Contributoris an Administratoris a Battle Server Admin Alumnusis a Smogon IRC SOp Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnus
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    In my runs with Jumpman's team, I saw Trick Room a few times, but not very much. I recall a few of them required a lot of defensive switching on my part, but it was manageable. I never developed a firm strategy for Bronzong, but switching was always involved.

    I'd love to try that Suicune, but getting a good legend (particularly the dogs) is next-to-impossible. I have a not-horrible Suicune I caught in Colosseum, but it's certainly not Bold, and I doubt it is HP-Electric 70. I'm sure there are Suicune's on wifi, but 99% of the good ones are hacked. That's one reason I don't pay close attention to BT team strategies that involve legendaries. I can't really duplicate those strategies myself.
  3. Jumpman16

    Jumpman16 np: Michael Jackson - "Mon in the Mirror" (DW mix)
    is a Smogon IRC SOPis a Site Staff Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Battle Server Admin Alumnusis a Researcher Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis an Administrator Alumnus

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    While I don't condone hacking for moves and max stats, I can somewhat understand if it's for one of the Legendary Dogs or Lati@s, since they were nearly impossible to obtain with decent stats thanks to Nintendo/Game Freak's brilliant idea to neuter the roaming ones' IVs in RSFRLG. I'm also less inclined to care if you're talking about playing the ingame competition of the Battle Tower, Battle Frontier and Wifi Tower and not human opponents, as you'd be taking advantage of the latter if they do not also hack for perfect stats and advantageous Hidden Powers.

    I feel playing in the arenas of the former is more dependent on strategy, teambuilding and skilled gameplay than can be trumped with a few extra stat points on a finicky legend (and, again, I'm referring mainly to five pokemon, since there's otherwise no good excuse in my mind to not breed for a non-legend or soft-reset for one of the other legendaries). Further, I regard challenging the "Battle Tower" arenas as almost a science or an art form where the only goal is to play to win, and in that regard wouldn't mind someone hacking for max stats and legal movesets, since it's not as if there's any "Battle Tower" on Shoddy where you're actually *allowed* to hax all max stats with little effort.

    So, while I'm not exactly going to assume that Marcel's Bold, 70 BP HP Electric Suicune is legit, I don't exactly mind since I'm positive that legal hacks alone aren't going to assure a battler of a 200+-battle win streak.
  4. -Marcel-

    -Marcel-

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    My Suicune hasnt good IVs and its HP is actually around 64 or something. I know. It are not the IVs that make the difference.
  5. DougJustDoug

    DougJustDoug Knows the great enthusiasms
    is a member of the Site Staffis an Artistis a Programmeris a CAP Contributoris an Administratoris a Battle Server Admin Alumnusis a Smogon IRC SOp Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnus
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    I think hacking the dogs for use the BT is quite low on the scale of hacking offenses, for all the reasons Jumpman mentioned. I also agree that great IV's do not make the BT easy. In my opinion, it just makes a long streak possible -- with a well-formed team, good play, and a nice bit of luck. Without great IV's, I think a lot of "close calls" will cause you to lose. So, hacked or legit, a long streak requires a lot of skill. If someone hacked a Suicune or Lati@s to play out a BT strategy, I could understand that form of "cheating" more so than others.

    However, I personally won't play with a legend in the BT, because I'm now playing strictly for a 200+ streak and I want it posted on the leaderboard. I don't think any hacked pokes should be allowed on the leaderboard, legendary dogs or otherwise. If someone posted a big streak in this thread with hacked pokes, I will still respect their achievement. But, I don't think it should go on the leaderboard. I doubt anyone would admit to using hacked pokes, and I'm sure there are plenty of hacked pokes on the current leaderboard. There's no way to tell. Nor do I really care.

    I like planning and breeding BT teams. I guess I'm one of those odd people that gets personal satisfaction out of the whole process. If I can't breed a pokemon for my BT team, I won't use it.

    I actually have a good Zapdos I caught in Pokemon XD. I have some vague plans to use it on a BT team with Gallade and Snorlax. Unfortunately, I don't have a good Gallade right now, and even if I did, that team won't make it to 200. After I try out some other teams I'm excited about, maybe I will see if the "GalLax-Z" team can make it to 100, at least.
  6. -Marcel-

    -Marcel-

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    Id like the proces to ofcourse. But i didnt reset for this Suicune myself. But it came in my mind to use him and i had one in my box so. My record whit this team is just 87 by my lack of experience but im sure that i come a lot higher when i tried a few times.
    Ill tell you when i have an high streak.

    BTW; Their are a lot of nice legit dogs on this forum up for trade. =)
  7. Ambitions

    Ambitions

    Joined:
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    Well after to many countless hours of breeding, I've decided its time to take a break and get 100 wins in the battle tower. So for 63 wins is my best with Porygon-z, Electrive, and Umbreon, but I'm trying to make a team of Pokemon that complement each other, work well together, cover each others weaknesses and has an over all well thought out stratagem. So I busted open my boxes and went digging, this is what I have come up with so far.

    The Lead
    Salamance @ Choice Specs
    [​IMG]
    EV's 6 Hp| 252 Sp Att| 252 Spd
    Modest
    -Draco Meteor
    -Hydro Pump
    -Flamethrower
    -HP Ground (70)

    The Type Combo
    Magnezone @ Lum Berry/Life Orb (Undecided have used both)
    [​IMG]
    EV's 92 Att| 252 Sp Att| 166 Spd
    Mild
    -Explosion
    -Thunder Bolt
    -Magnet Rise
    -Tri Attack

    The Wall
    Cresslia @ Leftovers
    [​IMG]
    Ev's
    252 Hp| 62 Def| 196 Sp Att
    Relaxed
    -Charge Beam
    -Ice Beam
    -Light Screan
    -Moonlight

    So here is the thought behind this team, starting with the combination of Salamance and Magnezone as an offensive threat. First off, the two of them cover each other weaknesses perfectly. Salamance is weak to Ice, Rock, and Dragon while Magnezone is weak to Fighting, Fire, and Ground. So if one is threatened by a Pokemon packing one of those types of moves, the other comes in and takes care of it. Salamance also gets to lead with Intimidate, so switching in Magnezone on an Ice Punch usually doesn't even do 1/4th damage. I have been letting Magnezone hold a Lum berry for even more defensive power. It makes a great counter to Pokemon packing sleep moves like Crobat, Milotic, Bronzong, Drifblim, and Hypno. So the basis of this combo was purely defensive.

    Salamance rocks the Choice Specs because I love powerful leads. No set up, just go crazy and OHKO as much as possible. Nothing resists its move set, and with Magnezone backing it, the two hit nearly everything SE. Draco Meteor is pretty big here, eliminates anything I think I may not be able to handle quickly and effectively. The rest of the move set is simply for coverage.

    Magnezone play a huge part on my team. I take hits really well even with the def- nature, which is partially covered by Salamanses intimidate. Life Orb was what I started out with, but switched to Lum berry so I could have something that I could rely on for taking status inducers. It cant dream of switching in on a fire type to take a WoW though, which makes me consider switching back to the Life Orb. Explosion plays the same roll as Draco Meteor, take out the problem before it comes one. Tri Attack over Hidden Power since my Magnezone has HP Dragon 69, but with IV's of 31/30/29/31/31/31 on a genderless Pokemon, my best breed to date and 99.9% sure ever, I'm not complaining. Magnet rise is there to give this thing even more staying power than it has. EQ is a move the the opponent packs very very very often, if Magnezone forces a switch (unlikely), or has time to set up before a KO, I always Magnet Rise. Thunderbolt for stab....duh.

    Cresslia is my wall. Its weakness are covered by Salamance and Magnezone, mostly Magnezone. After one Charge Beam it has as much special attack as a Timid Max Sp At Gengar, no bull shit buddy. Light Screan over Reflect sine its a Def+ nature and doesn't have any Sp Def EV's. Moonlight for recovery. This thing has a tendency to take out 2 poke each battle. After one Charge Beam, it takes off into Rock and fuckin' Roll mode.


    Cool team hunh? To bad it only has 41 wins under its belt. It got swiftly defeated by a Sheer Cold Walrien. Magnezone had just self destructed and Cresslia was sent out. Instant death from Shear Cold. In came Salamance, Draco Meteor put the jack ass down to 1-10 Hp, and it proceeded to OHKO move me into oblivion....sigh.


    Things this team is missing

    Speed.
    Taunt.
    Destiny Bond.
    CB Weavile Counter.

    Help me! This team isn't preforming as well as I had hoped, so I turn to my fellow Smogoners with far more battling experience than me to shape this team up. Obviously, I'm open to replacing Pokemon.

    Thanks.

  8. ilabb

    ilabb

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2006
    Messages:
    308
    [​IMG]
    Link battle record with my friend. 101 straight wins :D

    Our team varied as we went, but here is the basic team we followed.

    My team:

    Gallade@Life Orb
    Adamant
    Steadfast
    -Hypnosis
    -Psycho Cut
    -Leaf Blade
    -Close Combat

    Porygon-Z@Wise Glasses/Focus Sash
    Timid
    Adaptability
    -Nasty Plot/Ice Beam (it changed depending on my mood ...)
    -Hidden Power Fighting 68
    -Tri Attack
    -Dark Pulse


    Friend's team:

    Aerodactyl@Focus Sash
    Adamant
    Rock Head :/
    -Earthquake
    -Stone Edge
    -Crunch
    -Aerial Ace (fuck off Double Team)

    Metagross@Occa Berry
    Adamant
    Clear Body
    -Earthquake again lol
    -Meteor Mash
    -Zen Headbutt
    -Thunderpunch


    Not the most competitive movesets ever, but they haven't failed (much). They're fully EV/IV trained, but I can't be bothered to remember what they were EV'd for... I have it written down somewhere...

    Our alternate team swapped out my Gallade for his Aerodactyl, while he used a Gengar instead of said Aerodactyl. The Gengar looked something like this:

    Gengar@Focus Sash (silly game can't check for duplicate items if the items are on different teams :D)
    Modest
    Levitate
    -Hypnosis
    -Shadow Ball
    -Energy Ball (fuck off Fissure Wishcash, I'm on to you)
    -Destiny Bond

    Then he still had his Metagross while I used his Aerodactyl and the Porygon-Z.

    The double Focus Sash leads and like 130 base speed on both of them assured us at least 2 attacks each barring the odd Hailstorm (and Sandstorm for Gengar's case). After Gengar was set to 1hp, we deployed the Destiny Bond. Being immune to Aerodactyl spamming Earthquake was also very helpful.

    We were only taken down after a Mismagius employed the same strategy against our Metagross :(
  9. garo

    garo

    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2008
    Messages:
    155
    salamence-magnezone cover each other´s weaknesses, but have some troubles, once i tried a dragonite-tyranitar duo but fighting types are a dangerous threat, every fighter (except 2 or 3) have stone edge or rock slide in their moveset, also 28 different battle tower pokes have earthquake-stone edge combination with one of the attacks stabed, the dragon types besides lati@s always carry earthquake. particulary abomasnow, garchomp and mamoswine potentially can be very dangerous threats, so i recommend you never let cresselia die, or if you can´t achieve a good streak after many trials maybe change either salamence or magnezone, stick with the one who has better synergy with cressy.
  10. Carl

    Carl or Varl
    is a Smogon IRC AOp Alumnusis a Super Moderator Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnusis a Past SPL Winner

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    Well, I finally lost after improving on my personal best of 117.. made it all the way to 165 after a couple of miserable runs and a shot at 2v2 BT. The team remained the same and can be found here.

    The team I lost to was Heatran/Raikou/Articuno, in that order. Both Heatran and Raikou can give my team fits individually, let alone together. Articuno was kind of icing on the cake.. because of its bulkiness I can't one shot it even with super effective moves. The lead Heatran used Flamethrower which was promptly met with a Mirror Coat. Unfortunately, this Heatran doesn't do enough for me to return the blow for a OHKO meaning I have to use Mirror Coat again with Wobbuffet just barely hanging on for dear life after a second Flamethrower. Man, fire pokemon are not fun to face. Next in is Raikou and nobody on my team can take a Thunderbolt well and if this is a Timid version I'd be screwed for sure. I proceeded to sacrifice Wobbuffet and switched to Lucario. There's a few reasons behind this move. 1) If Lucario can get in a Swords Dance, it can at least put a huge dent in Raikou before dying. 2) If this is the Calm Mind variety, Gengar is walled and forced to Destiny Bond. See point 3 for why this isn't ideal. 3) Experience has taught me that last pokemon Gengar with a Sash is WAY better than last pokemon Lucario. Gengar is much better equipped to deal with a surprise pokemon. Anyway, I picked Swords Dance and barely hung on to complete the move after a strong Thunderbolt. No paralysis. Extremespeed is my only option being slower and Raikou dropped down to about 25% or so before killing me off with Spark. Gengar. Shadow Ball. I went first meaning this Raikou was not Timid and my Sash is still intact. Right move. Articuno was next out and I checked the movset possibilities. At this point I was afraid of Wacan Berry but I used Thunderbolt anyway to prove that I was right. Sheer Cold was used by the AI but luckily it missed. If it uses Sheer Cold again, I have enough damage done to win. The only way I can lose is by freeze. Sure enough, I used Thunderbolt the next turn putting Articuno in KO range for next turn and the AI chose Ice Beam which froze me. And that was that. If you guys think I did anything wrong, please enlighten me.

    It was a decent run.. I wish I had gone a little further but I have a new team in mind now which might be much more effective. We'll see.
  11. Jumpman16

    Jumpman16 np: Michael Jackson - "Mon in the Mirror" (DW mix)
    is a Smogon IRC SOPis a Site Staff Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Battle Server Admin Alumnusis a Researcher Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis an Administrator Alumnus

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    Thanks for the warstory. Bad news is that you lost at 165, but the good news is that I actually do think I can help you out here.

    When it's 2-2 and you have a 100% HP Lucario out up against pretty much anything that can be faster than lucario besides like Froslass and Gengar (since you don't run Bullet Punch), you should always use Close Combat. Even if they resist it. When you look at the damage output against Raikou, which was very likely to be faster:

    (80 [ES] × 2 [SD]) × 1.1 [Muscle Band] = 176 damage

    vs.

    (180 [STAB CC] × 1.1 [Muscle Band]) + (80 [ES] × 1.1 [Muscle Band]) = 286 damage

    you realize that, since you know Raikou isn't killing you with one TB, this is likely the best course of action. To revisit your line of thinking:

    "1) If Lucario can get in a Swords Dance, it can at least put a huge dent in Raikou before dying.
    2) If this is the Calm Mind variety, Gengar is walled and forced to Destiny Bond. See point 3 for why this isn't ideal.
    3) Experience has taught me that last pokemon Gengar with a Sash is WAY better than last pokemon Lucario. Gengar is much better equipped to deal with a surprise pokemon."

    I 100% accept points 2) and 3), but point 1) is where I think you should change your line of thinking. Against pokemon that are faster than Lucario but can't OHKO but will likely 2HKO (this is a fair number of pokemon), you should fire away with Close Combat (or Crunch if it's like Starmie) then ES, knowing full well that a Sashed Gengar is fantastic as a last poke even if Lucario isn't able to kill their second poke.
  12. Carl

    Carl or Varl
    is a Smogon IRC AOp Alumnusis a Super Moderator Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnusis a Past SPL Winner

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    Fair enough. Though we're talking about this in real time right now (lol wow we're nerds) I feel obligated to clarify to everyone else why I made the mistake I did. It pretty much comes down to my logic failing me at that critical moment and not actually running numbers on the situation. I kept thinking about the special defense drop that follows the use of Close Combat and how Thunderbolt would OHKO if I used it not realizing that the only way that would even come into play would be if it was the 1 of 4 possible Raikous that was Quiet. And even then, one Close Combat by itself would have done more damage as shown above. I guess it's a little more "satisfying" to know that I could have done something differently to possibly change the outcome of the battle and maybe make luck less of a factor.
  13. Silentmartyr

    Silentmartyr

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    I just had a nice 30 win streak with a team of Magmortar, Nidoking, and Lanturn. I swept the Tycoon with Lanturn, haha.
  14. Shelcario

    Shelcario

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2007
    Messages:
    1,421
    I just lost on a win streak of 32, so here's how it went; Opponent leads with Glaceon, I lead with Salamence. I use Rock Slide as the logical choice hoping that this Glaceon wasn't the Focus Sash version and it was so it Avalanches my Salamence thus killing Sally:( I then send out Starmie killing Glaceon then opponent sends out Gliscor, I'm like sweet easy KO and I use Ice Beam and it of course has Yache Berry to survive. It then proceeds to KO my last two, Starmie and Umbreon with two lucky Guillotine hits, I hate the BT's Hax:(
  15. Vald

    Vald

    Joined:
    May 2, 2008
    Messages:
    3
    121 wins single battle challenge

    121 wins battle tower single battle challenge

    At first I did not expect to use this team much because I thought I needed a special sweeper instead of Weavile, but none of the physical walls disrupted this team much

    Weavile -focus sash-
    Jolly 252 Attack 252 Speed
    -Swords Dance
    -Ice punch
    -Night Slash
    -Brick Break

    252 speed so he could be a weavile killing weavile. I switch to milotic if it the opponents starter is a fire or water (except psychic/water types) and I switch Garchomp into electric types. So, mostly, Weavile stays in. The only time Weavile stays in and does not use swords dance as his first move is when I suspect a status attack, or the opponents starter is Tyranitar or Hippowdon. Weavile will get a sweep every once and a while, but even after a swords dance, with 70 and 75 power for its two stab moves, weavile is not super awesome. One of his bigger roles is to hopefully still be alive when a timid Starmie comes up. No 130 base speed pokemon ever outsped this guy. With Swords Dance and poor AI choices this guy could beat Curselax most of the time.

    Garchomp -life orb-
    Jolly 252 attack 252 speed

    -Swords Dance
    -Dragon Claw
    -Earthquake
    -Fire Fang

    Garchomp only switches in on electric types to be certain he has the hp available to be able to fire of a Swords Dance. I do not use swords dance in front of Luxray or Electivire. If your using Swords Dance and life orb I believe there is no reason to use Outrage over Dragon claw as this guy could still get a 2HKO on Palmers Cresselia and OHKO everthing else except Bronzong and Skarmory. Getting stuck on Outrage sucks. I also used a choice band garchomp with outrage and decided it was not worth it. Getting a fast kill with a choice banded outrage is nice but when your opponents next pokemon is mammoswine or a bulky water type you will wish you could switch out. Anway I would always swords dance in front of a slower opponent that I did not suspect had a dragon, ice, or status(excluding thunderwave) attack. Since for the most part pokemon in the battle tower do not seem to be as fast as they should be, I was suprised when an opposing Garchomp, that apparently was not holding a choice scarf, outsped my Garchomp that was just barely below max speed. The funniest thing that happened on the way to 121 was a Hippowdon's Ice Fang missing my Garchomp.

    Milotic -leftovers-
    Bold 252 defense 104 special attack 24 special defence 130 hp

    -Toxic
    -Surf
    -Ice Beam
    -Recover

    Garchomp goes very well with a water type. Milotic takes Garchomps Ice Beams (if he has not swords danced yet) and Garchomp takes Milotics Thunderbolts. Milotic usually kills with Toxistalling so she can use recover on the turn that the opponent faints and then has the best chance of taking on the next pokemon. Milotic is also the only one that is not too ruined by trick room teams. The only two water types in the battle tower that Milotic can not handle are Starmie and Lanturn. Weavile handles Starmie and Garchomp can handle Lanturn. I did run into a Lapras with thunderbolt once, but the Lapras only did about 1/3 damage with its thunderbolt, easily handled by leftovers and recover. Milotic also handled Alakazams with energy ball in the battle tower 1 on 1, which was nice.

    I lost at battle 121 to a Reggigas that got lucky with Double Team. My Milotic actually had a great chance at beating it since the Reggigas had used thunder wave on it, but paralysis immobilized my Milotic's recover twice.

    By luck I made a team with each member being able to handle Palmers Cresselia 1 on 1, and my Milotic took out the whole 49th Palmer team by herself once.

    I also tried CB Aerodactyl in Weaviles place, Choice Scarf Heracross as well. Plus a Starmie/Specsmence -or- Garchomp/Bronzong team. Ofcourse you want to consider typing when you make a team but you should also have a balance of speed vs durability. Pokemon from a certain speed are great at killing pokemon a little slower than themselves until you make the loop where slow durable pokemon are great at killing fast fragile types. Also Do not depend on inaccurate moves . My other teams had big problems when Aerodactyl's Stone Edge missed on a Lapras or Heracross's Megahorn missed on a Psychic type. When you are trying to string a hundred wins together 85% accuracy is not good enough for moves that NEED to hit.

    Thank you for reading
    Vald
  16. Team Rocket Elite

    Team Rocket Elite Data Integration Thought Entity
    is a Pokemon Researcher

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    Messages:
    1,006
    Link Battle
    Team Rocket Elite (230) - Bronzong, Smeargle, Dusknoir, Exeggutor

    http://members.shaw.ca/teamrocketelite/TREBattleTower3.JPG

    I was dual-wielding DSs so it's just me.

    Team 1

    Bronzong @ Lum Berry
    Trait: Heatproof
    Nature: Brave (+Atk, -Speed)
    EVs: 252 HP, 252 Atk, 6 Sp.Def
    -Trick Room
    -Gyro Ball
    -Earthquake
    -Explosion

    Exeggutor @ Life Orb
    Trait: Chlorophyll
    Nature: Quiet (+SpAtk, -Speed)
    EVs: 190 HP, 100 Atk, 220 Sp.Atk
    -Leaf Storm
    -Psychic
    -Trick Room
    -Explosion

    Team 2

    Smeargle @ Focus Sash
    Trait: Technician
    Nature: Naive
    EVs: Zero
    -Protect
    -Endeavor
    -Fake Out
    -Helping Hand

    Dusknoir @ Leftovers
    Trait: Pressure
    Nature: Careful(+SpDef, -SpAtk)
    EVs: 252 HP, 58 Def, 200 Sp. Def
    -Will-O-Wisp
    -Night Shade
    -Protect
    -Rest


    Nothing really new to say about this team. Bronzong is my starter for the first team and Smeargle is my starter for the second team. The only difference from regular Double battle is the limitations on switching between teams which wasn't too big a deal.

    I was eventually done in by a Quick Claw Rhydon. It used Quick Claw to take out my Smeargle before I could use Endeavor. My Bronzong then Explodes into a Staraptor and a Rhydon. Rhydon then Megahorn'd my Exeggutor. My Dusknoir misses a Will-O-Wisp on Rhydon and eventually falls to the 3 on 1.

    I could probably get a good deal longer of a record, but Link Battle is a real pain to play. Since you can't turn animations off, the battles take twice as long. Dual-wielding DSs is a bit difficult as well.

    ---------------------

    And now an update to my Double Battle record.
    http://members.shaw.ca/teamrocketelite/TREBattleTower4.JPG

    Here's the new team:

    Bronzong @ Lum Berry
    Trait: Heatproof
    Nature: Brave (+Atk, -Speed)
    EVs: 252 HP, 252 Atk, 6 Sp.Def
    -Trick Room
    -Gyro Ball
    -Earthquake
    -Explosion

    Lv1 Starly @ Focus Sash
    Trait: Keen Eye
    Nature: Impish (+Def, -SpAtk) (not that it matters)
    EVs: Zero (not that it matters)
    -Protect
    -Endeavor
    -Rain Dance
    -Foresight

    Dusknoir @ Leftovers
    Trait: Pressure
    Nature: Careful(+SpDef, -SpAtk) (Sassy would be better)
    EVs: 252 HP, 58 Def, 200 Sp. Def
    -Will-O-Wisp
    -Night Shade
    -Protect
    -Rest

    Exeggutor @ Life Orb
    Trait: Chlorophyll
    Nature: Quiet (+SpAtk, -Speed)
    EVs: 190 HP, 100 Atk, 220 Sp.Atk
    -Leaf Storm
    -Psychic
    -Trick Room
    -Explosion

    The Bronzong, Exeggutor, and Dusknoir are the same three as before. The Smeargle was replaced with a Starly. Fake Out and Helping Hand are replaced with Rain Dance and Foresight. Losing Fake Out is not too much of a problem since it was mostly used in order to prevent opponents from potentially KOing Bronzong with critical hit Earthquakes. Since opponents prioritize killing Starly and Starly is immune to Earthquake, they will almost never use Earthquake. The loss of Helping Hand does not change all that much either since Endeavor can still be used to support my other Pokemon's attacks, just be more cautious of Quick Claw users. Rain Dance is used in order to counter Hail + Snow Cloak. It can be used to stop Sandstorms, but Sand Veil + Sand Stream actually ends up being quite rare to see in the Battle Tower. Foresight enables Bronzong's and Exeggutor's Explosions to nail Ghosts and Double Team users. Unfortunately, Foresight does not stop Brightpowder, Sand Veil, or Snow Cloak Evade boosts so be careful of that.

    This team tends to only fall through large amounts of bad Luck, or through bad choice of attacks. Usually it will end up being that a seemingly insignificant decision slides into a chain of bad luck resulting in a loss. The main thing to worry about is Bronzong being OKHO'd on Turn 1, otherwise you should have an almost guaranteed shot of winning the battle.

    [Problem Trainers]

    Gambler - They use Pokemon with OHKO attacks, Explosion, or Destiny Bond. The only relevent problem here is the OHKOs for obvious reasons.

    Ice Trainers - Hail + Snow Cloak, and OHKO users. They are like the PI with a lot more Pokemon to capitalize on a first turn Bronzong kill. They are also more likely to bring in an Abomasnow which disrupts Starly.

    Legendary Trainers - Most of their Pokemon can survive a 75% power Explosion when at full health. And they carry a few Pokemon that are difficult to take out without Bronzong or Starly like Moltres and Heatran.

    [Problem Pokemon]

    First Turn Troubles:

    -Abomasnow, Tyranitar, Hippowdon: The Weather Pokemon. They cause Starly's Focus Sash to become ineffective. Abomasnow in particular is worst of the three because hail can cause Blizzard to hit through Protect with a 30% chance preventing Starly from cancelling the weather. Tyranitar and Hippowdon makes Starly's Focus Sash useless but they are quite unlikely to come with anything with Sand Veil.

    -Walrein, Lapras, Glalie, Dewgong: Only if they are of the OHKO variety. They can KO Bronzong before Trick Room is cast, which may automatically kill the team. Other OHKO users have other damaging attacks thus will not use OHKOs.

    -Marowak? Sometimes Marowak is able to OHKO Bronzong with Earthquake, but I've never seen it use it in over 2000 battles.

    -Rock Slide users: 30% chance of Flinching Bronzong. Switch Starly with Dusknoir and continue to try to use Trick Room.

    Later Troubles:

    Moltres(925,939)/Heatran(948)- Brightpowder is a pain and these Pokemon can one shot Exeggutor with their attacks. Neither of these Pokemon can be Burned so you have to attack them to take them out with Night shade. In a 1 vs. 1 fight Dusknoir will often have a tough time winning.

    Porygon2(716)- Dusknoir cannot hit Normal types. The Quick Claw version has Signal Beam and Shadow Ball which can ruin Exeggutor and Dusknoir.

    Metagross (756,892)- The Quick Claw Metagross. These things end up giving me more problems than I really think they should. A bit of bad luck can put you in a bit of a pinch.

    Golduck/Quagsire/Politoed/Poliwrath- Damp Pokemon, 50% chance of inhibiting Explosions.

    Honchkrow(846)- Could potentially be a problem. Fortunately, the AI has no idea how to Sucker Punch properly, so you'll probably be safe.

    Rhydon(804)/Rhyperior(877)- Under Trick Room, these two have a chance of Outrunning Exeggutor without using their Quick Claw allowing them to take Exeggutor down with Megahorn before it can move.

    Cresselia(949)- Sometimes this thing can Tank a Life Orb Explosion from Exeggutor along with a Night Shade, Just be aware of that.

    Other Quick Claw/BrightPowder users can be a nuicance, but shouldn't be as dangerous as the ones mentioned.

    [Strategy Outline]

    -You'll learn to hate BrightPowder even more with this team. Nothing like watching the opponent dodge an Endeavor and two Explosions to get the blood boiling.
    -Try not to be too reckless with Exploding Bronzong. Keeping a lead over the opponent is still as important as ever, or at least until you know what their last two Pokemon are.
    -It could probably help a lot to pay attention to trainer patterns (eg. many trainers have a Type theme to them), as it can help a lot in predicting the opponent's moveset or what they could bring out on you.

    Turn 1:
    -Always use Trick Room and Protect. No exceptions. Be sure to pay attention to the opponent's attacks in order to scout out BrightPowder/Quick Claw movesets.

    Turn 2:
    -Usual Strategy: Endeavor + Gyro Ball
    ---Target Pokemon with Damp ability (Poliwrath, Politoed, Golduck, Quagsire)
    ---Next target Steel or Rock Types
    ---Then target Slow or high defense pokemon after the previous stated
    ---Avoid targetting extremely slow pokemon that resist Gyro Ball (Steelix/Slowbro)
    ---Avoid targetting Pokemon 4x resistant to steel (Lanturn/Magnezone)
    ---Avoid targetting Pokemon that hold a Sitrus Berry (Forretress, Blissey, Magmortar)
    ---Avoid targetting Pokemon holding Brightpowder or Quick Claw
    ---If one of the Pokemon didn't use a damaging attack on Turn 1, target the one that did
    -Alternate Strategy: Endeavor + Earthquake
    ---Use to answer extremely slow pokemon that resist Gyro Ball (Steelix/Slowbro), or Pokemon 4x resistant to steel (Lanturn/Magnezone)
    ---Use if both Pokemon are not immune to Ground and is you believe that you can KO one of them in 2 hits (Most Fires/Electric Types)
    ---Use if both opponents are Rock/Steel (unless they are flying ones)
    ---Can be used to deactivate Focus Sashes
    -If Sandstorm or Hail was summoned on Turn 1: Gyro Ball on Abomasnow, use Endeavor on the other. If Tyranitar or Hippowdon, use Earthquake instead of Gyro Ball (unless the other Pokemon flies)
    ---If you are facing a Trainer that benefits greatly from the weather effect(Hikers, Rune Maniacs, Ice Trainer): Rain Dance + Gyro Ball
    -If Gyro Ball can OHKO something in play (Aerodactyl, Alakazam, Froslass): Gyro Ball the Pokemon and Endeavor the other
    -If there is a Ghost Type (except Froslass): Target the other Pokemon w/ Endeavor + Gyro Ball
    -If Bronzong flinched on Turn 1 (by Rock Slide): Trick Room again and switch Starly for Dusknoir
    -If Bronzong got nailed by an OHKO: Switch to Exeggutor, Trick Room + Endeavor

    Turn 3:
    -Usual Strategy: Protect + Explosion
    ---If you suspect that both opponents will be able to survive the 75% powered explosion: use Endeavor instead on the one more likely to survive
    ---If the opponent has a ghost or something that has used Double Team use Foresight
    ---If Bronzong can KO something on the field with Earthquake or Gyro Ball: Use that attack instead of Explosion
    --------If using Earthquake, you can Endeavor the other Pokemon to take them both out, it usually does not make a difference in the battle to do this so try not to take any unnecessary risks
    -If Starly is still at full HP, repeat the Turn 2 strategy
    ---If the other opponent used Trick Room, set Trick Room up again
    -If after switching to Dusknoir because Bronzong flinched, Bronzong flinched again: Have Dusknoir use Protect and continue trying to use Trick Room until it works.
    -If Starly has already fainted after using Rain Dance: Switch in Dusknoir,
    -3 vs. 4 Scenario: Protect + Leaf Storm on OHKO user (It will be a Lapras/Dewgong/Walrein/Glalie)
    ---If it is the Glalie, attack the other that was already hit with Endeavor
    ---If Exeggutor was nailed by an OHKO: You're pretty much screwed, hope that Dusknoir can somehow tank 4 opponents

    Usually, by turn 4, you should be well on your way to winning the match, and they should be defeated by the time Trick Room ends. Or rare occasions, you'll have to stall out with Dusknoir, but it usually isn't anything too serious.

    http://members.shaw.ca/teamrocketelite/TREBattleTower5.JPG

    Losing at at nearly 500 hurt a lot. And losing at nearly 400 shortly afterwards didn't help things. Here's the battle that finally ended my streak:

    [Battle Start]
    Ace Trainer Dallin Sent out Jynx and Abomasnow.
    Go! Bronzong and Starly!

    The foe's Abomasnow's Snow Warning whipped up a hailstorm.

    [Turn 1]
    Starly used Protect!
    Starly protected itself!
    The foe's Jynx used Energy Ball!
    Starly protected itself!
    The foe's Abomasnow used Focus Blast!
    Starly protected itself!
    Bronzong used Trick Room!
    Bronzong twisted the dimensions!

    Hail continues to fall.
    Starly is buffeted by the hail!
    Bronzong is buffeted by the hail!

    [Turn 2]
    Starly used Rain Dance!
    It started to rain!
    Bronzong used Gyro Ball!
    It's super effective!
    The foe's Jynx fainted!
    The foe's Abomasnow used Focus Blast!
    Starly fainted!

    Rain continues to fall.

    [Turn 3]
    Ace Trainer Dallin sent out Lapras!
    Go! Exeggutor!
    Bronzong used Gyro Ball!
    It's super effective!
    Exeggutor used Leaf Storm!
    Exeggutor's attack missed!
    The foe's Abomasnow used Sheer Cold!
    It's a One-Hit KO!
    Exeggutor fainted!
    The foe's Lapras used Double Team!
    The foe's Lapras's Evade rose!

    Rain continues to fall.

    [Turn 4]
    Go! Dusknoir!
    Bronzong used Gyro Ball!
    It's super effective!
    The foe's Abomasnow fainted!
    Dusknoir used Night Shade!
    Dusknoir's attack missed!
    The foe's Lapras used Double Team!
    The foe's Lapras's Evade rose!

    Rain continues to fall.

    [Turn 5]
    Ace Trainer Dallin sent out Regice!
    Bronzong used Gyro Ball!
    It's super effective!
    Dusknoir used Night Shade!
    The foe's Regice used Rest!
    The foe's Regice went to sleep!
    The foe's Regice regained HP!
    The foe's Regice's Chesto Berry woke it up!
    The foe's Lapras used Double Team!
    The foe's Lapras's Evade rose!
    The twisted dimesions returned to normal!

    Rain continues to fall.

    [Turn 6]
    The foe's Lapras used Sheer Cold!
    It's a One-Hit KO!
    Dusknoir Fainted!
    Foe Regice used Ice Beam!
    It's not very effective...
    Bronzong used Gyro Ball!
    It's super effective!

    The rain stopped.

    [Turn 7]
    The foe's Lapras used Sheer Cold!
    The attack of the The foe's Lapras missed!
    Foe Regice used Thunderbolt!
    Bronzong used Gyro Ball!
    It's super effective!

    [Turn 8]
    The foe's Lapras used Double Team!
    The foe's Lapras's Evade rose!
    The foe's Regice used Rest!
    The foe's Regice slept and restored HP!
    Bronzong used Gyro Ball!
    It's Super Effective!

    [Turn 9]
    The foe's Lapras used Sheer Cold!
    It's a One-Hit KO!
    Bronzong fainted!
    Player was defeated!

    http://members.shaw.ca/teamrocketelite/TREBattleTower6.JPG

    This loss ends my streak at 653 wins, 50 hours shy of 999:59 game clock. Throughout the run there were 5 occasions where Bronzong could have been OHKO'd on Turn 1. 2 times they went for Starly, and the other three times they missed their target (still could have been targeting Starly though). There were also 3 or 4 close matches where Dusknoir narrowly escapes death after a bit of bad luck. The battle log shows an example of what I mean by a misjudgement followed by terrible luck. Had I Exploded Exeggutor instead of going for Leaf Storm, I would have won the match easily.

    Double Battle
    Team Rocket Elite (653) - Bronzong, Starly, Dusknoir, Exeggutor
  17. Jumpman16

    Jumpman16 np: Michael Jackson - "Mon in the Mirror" (DW mix)
    is a Smogon IRC SOPis a Site Staff Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Battle Server Admin Alumnusis a Researcher Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis an Administrator Alumnus

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    Messages:
    4,763
    i love you tre you like singlehandedly make this thread awesome (i havent read your post yet and i dont have to i am saving it for later!!!!! [nobody else do this])

    edit kind of saving for later: "I was eventually done in by a Quick Claw Rhydon."

    ok can we, like, ban this from smogon or something, this has killed too many a great streak (and is a pokemon my current team that i'll be posting soon has dealt with almost personally)
  18. venom_prince91

    venom_prince91

    Joined:
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    238
  19. Carl

    Carl or Varl
    is a Smogon IRC AOp Alumnusis a Super Moderator Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnusis a Past SPL Winner

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    How did I miss TRE's post the other day????

    Wow those records are just insane. Starly is an interesting touch.
  20. Little Green Yoda

    Little Green Yoda

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2005
    Messages:
    2,458
    Took a long break from the WiFi Battle Tower. I tried a couple different Pokemon and nothing really worked well, so I dropped all the way to rank 2 before climbing back up. Turns out, a minor tweak to my my original team worked better than a complete overhaul. It also ended up strangely similar to Raikou's team.

    I've kept bouncing between ranks 7 and 8. Rank 8 apparently doesn't want to play nice. Lost to Snow Cloak hax, crit hax, and Quick Claw hax so far. =(

    Heatran @ Choice Scarf
    Flamethrower
    Earth Power
    Dragon Pulse
    Iron Head (lol)

    I wanted a speedy leadoff Pokemon to get an early lead in most of my matchups. ScarfChomp is overdone and besides, I've grown to love YacheChomp. Being able to revenge-kill Metagross and Breloom is refreshing. Can't complain about the Dragon resist either.

    Luring opposing ScarfChomps to EQ Heatran is sweet when I switch to Gyara since the AI doesn't switch out. Easy setup bait. Iron Head is just filler until I get another Explosion TM. But I'm not entirely set on switching it since I haven't had a match where I felt I missed having Explosion. And Iron Head gives me a weapon to dent Protect/Yawn Snorlax that pop up from time to time.

    Gyarados @ Lum Berry
    Dragon Dance
    Earthquake
    Ice Fang
    Waterfall

    Intimidate is a godsend and Lum helps with status inducers, especially Water types like Slowbro and Milotic. Also, buys it one extra turn against Dynamic Punching Machamp. Fight/Water/Ground resists complements Heatran perfectly. I tried Stone Edge over EQ for a while (since my other two Pokemon already have Ground attacks and I don't have anything else to whack opposing Gyaras) but I hated the 80 accuracy, especially against Milotic/Slowbro who I need to KO or at least severely weaken with Gyara. As such, I have to carefully maneuver around opposing Gyaras, doing a little damage here, abusing Intimidate there.

    Garchomp @ Yache Berry
    Swords Dance
    Earthquake
    Dragon Claw
    Fire Fang

    Helps with the anti-Gyara plan by covering my Gyara's Rock weak. Electric immunity also works well with Gyara's Electric 4x weak. Yache gives it an opportunity to SD or strike hard.

    So far, aside from crazy hax, bulky Waters appear to be the main weakness in the team. My own Gyara has held its own in most cases, barring crit hax, but I'm contemplating using the bulky spread instead of the DD spread I'm using now. Any and all comments appreciated.
  21. Jumpman16

    Jumpman16 np: Michael Jackson - "Mon in the Mirror" (DW mix)
    is a Smogon IRC SOPis a Site Staff Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Battle Server Admin Alumnusis a Researcher Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis an Administrator Alumnus

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    Well, as some of you know or may have guessed I have indeed been up to something over the last 2-3 months straight, and I'm finally going to post what I've been working on pretty tirelessly since the middle of February.


    Lopunny (F) @ Choice Scarf ** SEXY CAN I
    Ability: Cute Charm
    IVs: 27 / 29 / 23 / 15 / 31 / 31
    EVs: 252HP / 172Def / 84Spd
    Nature: Timid
    ~ Switcheroo
    ~ Thunder Wave
    ~ Charm
    ~ Sweet Kiss

    The opening act of the show possesses even more charm than meets the eye. Put simply, for my strategy I wanted a Trick/Switcheroo pokemon with enough base Speed to outspeed everything in the BT for the Trick/Switch (78+ base Speed) and enough defenses to take a hit or two from either end of the damage spectrum to further incapacitate the opponent's lead poke. Now, I know I can't be the only one who assumed Lopunny's base stats were subpar since it's an early-game, BL poke, here they are: 65HP / 76Atk / 84Def / 54SpA / 96SpD / 105Spd. I first learned about its respectable SpD stat when someone proposed 300 Spd Lopunny with Ice Punch as a Specsmence counter over a year ago, but I think I'd forgotten about its great Speed (subconsciously assumed 90-95 base) and I certainly didn't think its Defense would be over 70.

    When I was looking for a Trick/Switcheroo pokemon, I wanted something with better defenses than Persian, who can hardly take one hit let alone two, but more speed than Hypno, who cannot surpass the 211 Speed Electrode even with a Scarf, a beneficial Nature and 252 Speed EVs (where the bigger problem is having to use half its EVs in speed to be effective). Here's a cleaned-up version of the notes I typed to myself in Notepad:

    pig: 187HP, 88Def, 130SpD, 214Spd
    hyp: 192HP, 91Def, 135SpD, 195Spd
    line: 185HP, 102Def, 72SpD, 214Spd
    lop: 172HP, 132Def, 116SpD, 214Spd

    Of the pokes that learn Trick/Switcheroo, Thunder Wave, and Reflect/Charm that aren't weak like Persian (though I now realize that Persian is +5 compared to Linoone haha), these are their optimal EV breakdowns focused on getting as close to 214 speed as possible (the fastest BT poke is Electrode at 211 Speed), maxing HP and pouring the rest in Defense. I edited this post on July 30 to reflect a change in the focus on speed, as outspeeding all beneficial speed nature Metagross (damn random natures...) is 100% guaranteed with 149 speed at Lv50, which is what 84 Speed EVs gets my Lopunny. I do realize that 252 Def is probably better than 252 HP but neither of those "spreads" are maximized anyway since they ignore SpD, which I also did because I realized very early in the theorymoning that Metagross was going to be a huge jerk to this team being immune to both Charm and Sand Attack. So I wanted as much of a focus on Defense as possible, accepting that things like Porygon-Z and Regice may be respectable special threats, but I felt maxing HP instead of maxing Def would "cover" special threats enough, especially given that all of my candidates has significantly higher SpD than Def (except for Linoone and its equal Def/SpD [61]).

    I first decided on Linoone ("lop" wasn't in the original notes, just pig/hyp/line) because it passed both the "speed" and "defenses" test (the latter in large part to its 78 base HP since the aforementioned 61 in Def/SpD kinda sucks) and learned the awesome Sand Attack, but then I was reminded/informed that the Lopunny I'd passed over earlier did indeed have a alternate ability to the Klutz that would render its Choice Scarf useless on itself.

    I also realized that Lopunny was +50 in base stats I cared about (+60 including Atk) compared to Linoone, and that, though it doesn't get Sand Attack or anything else that would incapacitate the opposing lead poke as much as I'd like outside of Thunder Wave and Charm, the better base stats would likely prove more valuable in the long run, so I rebred for a Female, Timid, Cute Charm Lopunny three weeks ago and have not really missed Sand Attack since. Ideally, Lopunny would learn Reflect or even Lucky Chant but I guess you can't have everything.

    Finally—when I lost at Battle 204 to QC Rhydon months ago I "vowed" for my team to do as much as strategically and viably possible to ensure that the same Rhydon would not beat me without insane luck.

    804 Rhydon Adamant Quick Claw Earthquake Megahorn Stone Edge Horn Drill HP/Atk

    When you think about it, the ~17% chance a QC Rhydon has to seriously threaten my Star/Tyra/Chomp team (~20% Quick Claw × 85% Megahorn) really isn't all that low—it's over a 1-in-6 chance. (And I already detailed how, since Garchomp can't OHKO it with EQ, QCing Starmie is enough to give someone huge trouble.) So naturally the first thought in my mind was to ensure that my lead poke could not be gayed by the same Rhydon. That Rhydon can only do 58-69% max against my Lopunny with Earthquake, and that's assuming a beneficial Attack Nature that, while is listed for it, we have reason to believe is actually random or at least trainer-dependent, meaning the Rhydon can do 53-62% (neutral) or 48-57% (hindering).

    So, to continue this "brief" aside on my analysis of AI move usage/damage, QC Rhydon would have to both QC and CH (~1.25%), and I'm pretty sure that's ass for pretty much every non–Focus Sash pokemon besides something like Regigigas which the AI might decide to use Horn Drill on anyway. That same reasoning is part of why I ultimately counted Hypno and Grumpig out, since they were no better than Starmie in the regard of not losing to QC since the AI would use Megahorn, whereas with Lopunny the AI is more inclined to EQ since it can do a lot of damage to Lopunny. For comparison, at Lv50 a 0/0 HP/Def EVs, 31 IVs Garchomp takes 49-58% from a 182 Atk (neutral Nature [the AI likely doesn't account for its own Nature]), 252EVs, 31IV Rhydon EQ, whereas a 0/0 HP/Def EVs, 31 IVs Lopunny takes 71-84%, and I have reason to believe the AI takes base stats into consideration as well as typing when deciding on what move to use (in addition to move accuracy), otherwise it would use the OHKO move on any pokemon it doesn't have a 100% chance of OHKOing with another move. Besides it using Horn Drill on my Garchomp in the aforementioned battle 204, this is further proof:

    835 Donphan Brave Quick Claw Fissure Earthquake Poison Jab Gyro Ball HP/Sp. Def

    This has twice used EQ on my Lopunny instead of Fissure, and is all the proof I need that Lopunny is in very little danger from QC Rhydon and a lot of other physical threats with QC or Brightpowder.

    So that's that, a pokemon with enough speed to Switch a Choice Scarf onto the foe and the defenses to get off a TW/Charm the next turn if necessary. And I don't even particularly like Ray J/Young Berg's "Sexy Can I" but the title fit way too well for the pokemon, Ability and initial move of choice!


    Latios @ Leftovers ** unban me
    IVs: 27 / 16 / 28 / 30 / 27 / 31
    EVs: 4HP / 252SpA / 252Spd
    Nature: Timid
    ~ Dragon Pulse
    ~ Calm Mind
    ~ Substitute
    ~ Rest

    Special thanks to yamipoli for the awesome Latios. The strategy here is very simple and does not necessitate nearly the wall of words as for Lopunny above: get in against an attack you don't care about, Sub (unless it's a something like a Magnezone Thunderbolt or a Starmie Hydro Pump that will break an unboosted Sub in which case I CM), and get as many CMs as you can, refreshing your Sub as necessary. In Advance I wanted to use Dragon Claw/CM/Sub/Recover or Rest pretty bad but was more than satisfied with my CB Sala/CM Cune/Curselax team. DP gives me a chance to finally make good on this desire, with a boosted Dragon attack (90 BP vs. DC's 80). Anyway, the idea is to always be behind a Sub, since, besides a Jolly and/or Sashed Weavile + Aerodactyl combination or incredible Focus Band/Brightpowder hax, there's virtually no stopping a +6 SpA, 350 Speed DP Latios behind a Sub.

    Of most note: Weavile. This one is familiar:

    848 Weavile Jolly Focus Sash Night Slash Ice Punch Aerial Ace Brick Break Atk/Speed

    as it would beat my Star/Tyra/Chomp team every time if it weren't for Sand Stream...and the evident fact that AI Natures are random. Checking this for myself, I looked at the Lv50 Speeds for the two pokemon in question:


    Weavile, Neutral Nature, 31Spd IV, 252Spd EVs: 177 Speed
    Latios, Timid Nature, 31Spd IV, 252Spd EVs: 178 Speed


    This is a big deal because if it can outspeed me I'm in a little trouble because of its Sash. It is incapable of OHKOing my last pokemon without a CH, though, so I'm not really that worried about it given it very likely won't have a beneficial Speed Nature.

    Lastly, Leftovers and Rest go a long way to preserving Latios's health. If I have to, due to CHed Subs or lack of full paralysis, I can Rest behind a Sub to max out on CMs. Sometimes I'm not able to get to +6 but it rarely matters—in fact what matters more is being behind that Sub. The lack of opponent PP Ups and Struggle's recoil being 25% aren't 100% welcome facts about the DP BT since both give Latios less time to set up at times, but +3 or +4 is usually enough to at least 2HKO everything (+6 indeed does so easily). One thing I have to assume since I don't think there's another way to tell besides closely analyzing the HP bar as it drops is that the opponent's HP is divisible by four and that the fourth Struggle will kill them, otherwise I could be naked as their final Struggle breaks my Sub, which is far more important than an extra Calm Mind.


    Lucario @ Salac Berry (M) ** Tantric
    Ability: Steadfast
    IVs: 31 / 08 / 31 / 26 / 24 / 30
    EVs: 28HP / 228SpA / 252Spd
    Nature: Modest
    ~ Aura Sphere
    ~ Dark Pulse
    ~ Calm Mind
    ~ Substitute

    Lucario rules just as much as its "lonely, heroic anime figure" aura would have you believe. A STAB Aura Sphere from 115 base SpA is almost a direct "fuck you" to Brightpowder and Lax Incense—combating Double Team with Lucario really doesn't come into play since if Lopunny hits with Switcheroo first turn and they DT they have 19 turns max before they are dead (14 more DTs and 4-5 Struggle turns). Could have better Defense but I really don't care because breeding for "that little shit" Riolu as Synre put it is pretty tedious (especially when you're a pillar of unreasonable morals and refuse to set your DS clock back if you want to evolve it after 7pm) and I actually *want to* take reasonable damage to get into Salac Range.

    Dark Pulse over Shadow Ball because only Heracross and Toxicroak resist the combo and the flinching capabilities of Dark Pulse will come in handy when behind a Sub but only having 2-4 CMs against stuff like Gyarados and Cresselia. CM and Sub are self-explanatory—what may not be is why I didn't go with a physical Luke like CC/Crunch/BU/Sub. I didn't mainly because because this can't OHKO Giscor and Weezing even at +6, and hindsight tells me that trying to set up against a Froslass with Ice Beam/TB would have been all the harder than it has been with my experiences thus far. Yes, the aformentioned Metagross would be a little easier to handle possibly, but that's pretty much the only pokemon whose attack I can't lower that's actually a threat even when locked into an attack Latios or Lucario resist. I can't lower the SpA of pokemon like Froslass, Regice and Pory-Z with Lopunny like I can affect Atk with Charm, so a CM Luke with Sub is better than BU Luke with Sub because then pokes like that would break my sub every time even with resisted attacks. (And I've considered Captivate but it only works against the opposite gender which is enough of a crapshoot before you realize the Regice and PZ don't care either way.)

    Lastly, Steadfast is actually better than Inner Focus even though both Abilities kind of suck because if I lock something like Aerodactyl into Rock Slide, I definitely want my Speed boosted asap without having to Sub all the way down and rely on what damage it's going to do to Luke. And it's Modest because it has 90 base Speed, which allows it to *just* outspeed everything after Salac activates (213 to Electrode's 211).


    So that's the cast of characters for this show...what about the script? Well, let me start off by saying this: this team is not nearly as easy to use on paper as it may look. There are a ton of pokemon that will make you think twice about boosting their speed and possibly putting them in a position for a reversal of fortune when they sweep you. Allow me to borrow TRE's format for the "Team Using Instructions":

    Turn 1:
    - Unless one of the pokemon referenced below, use Switcheroo, making distinct note of what item you're getting in return as this helps the scouting process. By far the most important turn of the match.
    - If the opponent's lead poke could outspeed Lopunny after being SwitchScarfed AND could threaten you with STABbed Outrage, Flare Blitz, Brave Bird, Close Combat, Focus Punch or is Raichu Volt Tackle lol (Dragonite, Garchomp, Rapidash, Arcanine, Charizard, Typhlosion, Blaziken, Infernape, Magmortar, Medicham, Staraptor, Crobat, Gallade, Heracross, Medicham, Raichu), and isn't Breloom, Hariyama or Poliwrath, use Charm.
    - If the opponent's lead poke could outspeed Lopunny after being SwitchScarfed AND could threaten you with STABbed Air Slash or Tri-Attack and isn't Crobat or Charizard, (Togekiss, Porygon-Z, Moltres), use Thunder Wave.


    Turn 2:
    - If the opponent's lead poke has successfully been Switched and used a non-attacking move that won't lower Latios's stats, switch to Latios.
    - If the opponent's lead poke has successfully been Switched and used a non-attacking move that will lower Latios's stats and isn't Flygon or Dugtrio, use Thunder Wave and toggle switches to Latios until it can get in and safely Sub.
    - If the opponent's lead poke had to be Charmed, Charm again or switch accordingly depending on the damage and what move it used.
    - If the opponent's lead poke had to be Thunder Waved, switch to either Latios or Lucario depending on the situation to refresh Lopunny's Choice Scarf.
    - If the opponent's lead poke proved to have Sticky Hold or Klutz, switch to either Latios or Lucario depending on the situation to refresh Lopunny's Choice Scarf.
    - If the opponent's lead poke has successfully been Switched and used an physical move and can be Thunder Waved without killing Lopunny on the same turn, use Thunder Wave.
    -If the opponent's lead poke has successfully been Switched and used an physical move and cannot be Thunder Waved without killing Lopunny on the same turn, use Charm.

    Turn 3:
    - If Latios is out and if safely possible, set up Latios and sweep.
    - If Lucario is out and if safely possible, set up Lucario and sweep.
    - If Lopunny fainted on turn 2, bring out the appropriate pokemon and set up as much as possible.
    --- Otherwise, switch back to Lopunny.

    Turn 4:
    - If not setting up Latios or Lucario (meaning Lopunny is currently out), and not up against a Sticky Hold or Klutz pokemon, use Switcheroo.
    - If up against a pokemon with Sticky Hold or Klutz, use Sweet Kiss or Charm accordingly.

    Turn 5:
    - If not setting up Latios or Lucario and not up against a pokemon that can boost its Attack or Special Attack, keep Lopunny in for as many turns as it takes to sacrifice it.
    - If not setting up Latios or Lucario and up against a pokemon that can boost its Attack or Special Attack, use Sweet Kiss or Charm accordingly then switch to Latios or Lucario accordingly.


    Ok, you get the idea and I think that's good/accurate enough. It's probably easier to just mention the trouble pokes. At the top of the list has to be:

    637 Medicham Lonely Brightpowder Attract Focus Punch Drain Punch Ice Punch Atk/Speed

    This uses either Drain Punch or Focus Punch and is a huge pain because I cannot Switch it first turn since one of the Medicham has Force Palm which would flat out suck when it has 1.5 Speed. This is strong enough to break Latios's Sub with Drain Punch unless I charm it, and even then Focus Punch would probably break my Sub even with -6 Atk. Ideally I get two Charms in and the second time it uses FP and it then has once crack at Latios with Ice Punch (my DP does 85-90%) but even if it doesn't CH/Freeze, I don't get to set up Latios at all which is risky. Definitely a lame poke for this team to face.

    617 Dragonite Jolly Persim Berry Outrage Earthquake Thunderpunch Brick Break Atk/Speed

    I have to Charm this bitch three times then also sacrifice Latios because it always uses Outrage and Lucario can't take it and needs all its HP it can spare to set up the 4+ CMs it needs to sweep three pokes. Given that it has a Persim Berry I can't Switch (cause it easily 2HKOs Lopunny) it will have like 5 good cracks at Lopunny with Outrage so a CH wouldn't exactly be "hax" (27.58%). This pokemon itself shows how truly dirty a STAB Outrage is.

    756 Metagross Adamant Quick Claw Meteor Mash Earthquake Zen Headbutt Arm Hammer HP/Atk
    892 Metagross Adamant Quick Claw Explosion Meteor Mash Earthquake Zen Headbutt HP/Atk

    Being immune to both Charm and Cute Charm sucks major ass, as does this being able to easily do over 50% to Lopunny with Meteor Mash. At least I will be faster than it and be able to hit with Thunder Wave (now that I've given Lopunny more speed EVs to outpace Metagross after the Switcheroo even if it randomly has a beneficial speed nature), but Lucario hates Meteor Mash a lot. I foresaw this matchup before I ever even decided on which lead poke to use (Latios and Lucario were locks from the beginning with their combined resistance/immunity to everything but Flying). I faced it last week and thankfully Meteor Mash did ~49% which was huge because it gave me a chance to Sub twice instead of once hoping for a miss and/or FP. This is perhaps the best reason I run Dark Pulse on Luke.

    "Regice"

    Three have Ice beam and Lucario flat out hates it. Can never get Luke set up even with multiple FPs.

    800 Froslass Timid Expert Belt Ice Beam Shadow Ball Thunderbolt Destiny Bond Sp. Atk/Speed

    Is a jerk because I have to CM naked at least once with Lucario since even the resisted Ice Beam does over 25%. At least Lopunny can take two Ice Beams and therefore TW but paralysis never kicks in when you want it to.

    "Porygon-Z"

    A jerk because Download raises its Special Attack which Charm can't do anything about and which makes Tri-Attack and Ice Beam suck even when not SE.

    "Flare Blitz/Brave Bird pokes"

    I have to Charm all of these pokes because they can all 2HKO Lopunny and Latios cannot stand the notion of a faster Flare Blitz/Brave Bird that is guaranteed to at the very least break its Sub. Not very fun to face.


    There's a few other things but you get the gist—this team is a lot harder to use than it may seem on paper. You really have to pay attention and know/check the BT Database religiously.

    I'm tired of typing so I'll stop here. Special thanks to Mekkah for helping me with some of the finer details of this team (therefore humbly dubbed "Team MekkahJump" or "Team Mukkuhawk", etc.). Since it's really not as important as the actual team and the strategy behind it, I've waited till here to post my current (intact) record with this team: 154. Not that high yet but I have been confident in this team through the handful of losses that have proven to have been avoidable. I'll post if I crack 203 and I probably won't if I don't. The very act of typing up this post is my swan song in a way, since I have spent a ridiculous amount of time over the past three months on this BT team at the expense of a lot of my free time, "lol."

    So even if I lose my very next battle I'm not going to put everything aside to try to get back up to 49 and 70 and 105 again because this post outlines why I know my team is effective and how much effort I've put into minimizing luck in the Battle Tower almost to the point where, in my opinion, "the numbers don't even matter" (to paraphrase the opening sentence of my Floatzel analysis). Most battles are a mere formality after Turn 1, though, as you may expect, as I feel I've successfully preyed upon what I think is the most exploitable flaw in the AI—the fact that they won't switch their pokemon on Turn 1 (or virtually ever). This has been a lot of fun at times, as well as boring, relaxing and frustrating, and I've been waiting some two months to feel as if I'm allowed to post this team. Again, in the last 3-4 months I've spent like the majority of my free time on the BT and this team I hope you guys liked this post cause in a way it typifies the last time I will spend a good chunk of my time at once on something Pokémon related and finally gives me a little closure...
  22. Peterko

    Peterko Never give up!
    is a Researcher Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

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    updated the list

    cool posts TRE and Jump

    also I think Latias would be more appropriate for the moveset and generally for the team you have Jump because of the "my sub has a better chance to not be broken" difference (but those Latios IVs are really awesome), good luck anyway

    lol I´m still miles away from using my team...still waiting (after like 1500 eggs with both at least 3x31 parents) for a hp ice lucario I would be satisfied with :/
  23. Jumpman16

    Jumpman16 np: Michael Jackson - "Mon in the Mirror" (DW mix)
    is a Smogon IRC SOPis a Site Staff Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Battle Server Admin Alumnusis a Researcher Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis an Administrator Alumnus

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    if i think about it in terms of being better able to get to +6 you have a point but the main times that I am not able to get 6 CMs is when I lock the opponent into a 5PP move like hydro pump or focus blast or rain dance which has more to do with "time running out" than latios's defensive stats
  24. FastHippo

    FastHippo

    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2007
    Messages:
    153
    What would you be satisfied with? I finally "settled" for 28/5/18/31/31/31. It took so long to even get hp ice, I was wondering if it were somehow not possible.
  25. trader

    trader

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    I love you Jump
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