1. Welcome to Smogon! Check out the Smogon Starters Hangout for everything you need to know about starting out in the community. Don't forget to introduce yourself in the Introduction and Hangout Thread, too!
  2. Welcome to Smogon Forums! Please take a minute to read the rules.

DP Battle Tower Records

Discussion in 'Smogon's Greatest Hits' started by Peterko, Sep 20, 2007.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Taylor

    Taylor stardust infinite
    is a Team Rater Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2006
    Messages:
    4,024
    I will read Jumpman's long post tommorow. It looked interesting to say the least whilst I was scanning through the 3 Pokemon in it.

    I've recently found myself a good Starmie with Surf, Ice Beam, Thunderbolt and Recover. So I'm going to try break my old streak on Monday with Tyranitar and Garchomp. This is because I need to break into the 150s and I haven't had much success in getting anywhere near alately. Considering them 3 are a good pair (as Jumpman has proven) I thought I'd have a go with myself.
  2. Shelcario

    Shelcario

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2007
    Messages:
    1,421
    Can anyone suggest a good Battle Tower team to me besides Jumpman's team? I need a team that can get me past 100. Thanks for any help:)
  3. Pulse

    Pulse

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2008
    Messages:
    1,217
    I really enjoyed reading that post Jump! I really have not done much in the Battle Tower, as I spend most of my battles on Wi-Fi, but man was that ever a great team.


    On a different note.. yamipoli's Latios makes me horny. Is that bad?
  4. Shelcario

    Shelcario

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2007
    Messages:
    1,421
    Yes that is kind of bad:)
  5. Carl

    Carl or Varl
    is a Smogon IRC AOp Alumnusis a Super Moderator Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnusis a Past SPL Winner

    Joined:
    Dec 23, 2004
    Messages:
    4,540
    Common sense tells me that any of the teams in the top singles battle records list would get you to 100 since each one of them has at least hit 105. I personally recommend any team with Focus Sash/Counter/Destiny Bond Gengar.
  6. garo

    garo

    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2008
    Messages:
    155
    WOWOWOW jumpman16, you did a really good job, congrats. in my first battle tower attempts i tried a alakazam-dragonite-registeel team, it followed some of the principles of your team, what i did was: lock the opponent in one move with trick, when alakazam died switch to the poke that resisted the current move, set up and sweep. i reached 50 wins, but my team wasnt really successful, i think it was because alakazam is too fragile to support the strategy, registeel curse set up has troubles with critical electric hits, and mainly i think my team dont shined because i dont put effort in it, i built it with my first ideas, i dont researched enough and i dont improved it with the experience obtained when i used the team in the tower.
    i hope your team success and maybe if it perform really well it will encourage me to improve my trick team, lol.
  7. Jumpman16

    Jumpman16 np: Michael Jackson - "Mon in the Mirror" (DW mix)
    is a Smogon IRC SOPis a Site Staff Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Battle Server Admin Alumnusis a Researcher Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis an Administrator Alumnus

    Joined:
    Dec 19, 2004
    Messages:
    4,774
    thanks, i appreciate it. for what it's worth my record is currently at 180 (it's probably worth the streak itself pretty soon as i jinx it, lol)

    also peterko, i feel that if someone makes the leaderboard with another team he or she should be referred to again. it only just occured to me that TRE's original 177 streak isn't there anymore and i think it makes more sense to have that still there since it's a totally different team...
  8. Peterko

    Peterko Never give up!
    is a Researcher Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2005
    Messages:
    1,070
    you´ve got a point there if you look at the list as some kind of "help I need a team to get far" list...I think that only the best record of each player should be on the list, I mean people like TRE have played the tower a hundred times and I bet he would be listed on 20 of the 30 top30 spots...I could list two or three best runs of the top30 users along with teams if people want me to, although it would be a pain to go through all the records again :/

    I know how you feel now, you´ll probably beat your starmie-ttar-chomp record with your current team and the team that almost everyone copies wouldn´t be listed anymore, hmm...maybe I could make a cut at 140+ wins (20 runs) or at 175+ wins (25 runs) for this "list more than one record/team if you achieved this number feature"...any other opinions on this issue?
  9. Carl

    Carl or Varl
    is a Smogon IRC AOp Alumnusis a Super Moderator Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnusis a Past SPL Winner

    Joined:
    Dec 23, 2004
    Messages:
    4,540
    I think you should just leave it at what's been submitted. If a person submits a team with a record and it makes the cut, then go ahead and put it in even if it is the same user but different team. It's cool to showcase the successful teams and point out that completely different styles can work well. The only real question in my eyes is how do you define a completely separate team vs a modified team?
  10. Jumpman16

    Jumpman16 np: Michael Jackson - "Mon in the Mirror" (DW mix)
    is a Smogon IRC SOPis a Site Staff Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Battle Server Admin Alumnusis a Researcher Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis an Administrator Alumnus

    Joined:
    Dec 19, 2004
    Messages:
    4,774
    [​IMG]

    i guess this would have made for a more exciting post with my 3500+ word explanation but whatever!

    also the AI still cheats really bad lol, i can't remember the last time my preventative sub wasn't CHed in the red. my last two battles featured a twice-charmed ursaring CHing my latios's sub at 3/154 with facade with CB Ice Shard Weavile coming out next lol, then a paralyzed once-charmed Glaceon seriously CHing twice in a row against Lucario with Avalanche even though i played it perfectly then QC leafeon coming out and QCing with Leaf Blade haha

    "pokemon"
  11. garo

    garo

    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2008
    Messages:
    155
    it looks like im the first replying to your new record jump, so im just wanna say kudos to you for battling so well at the haxtower and ranking up on the top three (also congrats for winning even when the tower cheats with the damn hax lol), i knew since the release of D/P that a trick/choice team will rape the AI in the tower because you dont see very often the AI switching pokes (i barely had seen one or two switches in my streaks), so im glad that you made a team that abuses of this. i cant wait to try improving my trick/choice team, but i think it will wait until the summer vacations lol.
  12. trader

    trader

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2007
    Messages:
    2,351
    Nice new record,Jump
  13. Peterko

    Peterko Never give up!
    is a Researcher Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2005
    Messages:
    1,070
    yeah good job Jump, I feel TRE´s record is in danger :)

    anyway, I´ve changed the format of listing more than one record for the same person, you won´t get another spot on the list (like Jump put himself on #3 and #6) but the second best record is listed after your best one in the same line, your third best after that etc.

    well, just check the first page if you don´t understand what I´m trying to say :/
  14. Mekkah

    Mekkah
    is a Super Moderatoris a Tutor Alumnusis a Site Staff Alumnusis a Smogon IRC SOp Alumnusis a CAP Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis an Administrator Alumnus
    Super Moderator

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2005
    Messages:
    14,079
    roses are red
    violets are blue
    medicham is gay
    and froslass says fuck you

    dont infract me jumpmin

    This team seems as close to perfect as it gets for me. Changing anything seems to be for the worse. It's exactly what BT teams should pursue: exploit the AI. The list of problem Pokemon seems a bit huge, but the fact that they all need luck to some extent and that there's strategical ways around them gives hope.
  15. shipship

    shipship

    Joined:
    May 17, 2008
    Messages:
    177
    Hello, long-time lurker, first time poster.

    I'm currently sitting at 119 wins in double battles. My streak is still alive, so I'll keep playing to see how far I can go. My current team for doubles is:

    Latios (white herb, cures stat decreases one time)
    Modest, max Sp Attack and max Speed.
    Draco Meteor
    Psychic
    Thunder
    Energy Ball

    The basic idea is to kill things ASAP with its massive 394 special attack. Having white herb cures the stat decrease of draco meteor, allowing me to fire a second draco meteor at full power. STAB Psychic 1-hit ko's fighting/poisons. Thunder is for KO'ing waters/fliers. The extra power provides some 1-hit ko's that thunderbolt wouldn't. Energy Ball is for the rock/grounds or water/grounds that have a 4x weakness. Pretty straightforward stuff.

    My other lead:
    Gyarados (wacan berry, weakens electric attacks one time)
    Adamant, max Attack and max Speed.
    Waterfall
    Ice Fang
    Earthquake
    Dragon Dance

    Pretty straightforward physical sweeper. Intimidating my opponents right off the bat is very useful. I'll use dragon dance on the first turn if Latios can get a 1-hit-ko on something. If Latios cannot 1-hit-ko, Dragon Dance is more risky because I don't want both foes to target Gyara and knock him out, wasting the Dragon Dance. Once I get that first DD in, those fast and frail sweepers like Gengar or Alakazam become easy prey, falling to a single Waterfall. If my opponent leads with an electric type, I switch to:

    Garchomp (yache berry, weakens ice attacks one time)
    Adamant, max Attack, max Speed.
    Dragon Claw
    Earthquake
    Fire Fang
    Swords Dance

    Standard Swords Dance sweeper. The CPU is incredibly stupid. If my opponent leads with Jolteon and Zapdos (just as an example) I'll switch to Garchomp, and they'll BOTH try to thunderbolt Gyara, but will both swing and miss. Earthquake works really well in double battles because it hits both foes at the same time (although with less power). Latios and Gyarados are immune to it so I don't shoot myself in the foot. If I think an incoming Ice Beam is aimed at Garchomp, I switch to:

    Regice (leftovers)
    Bold, max HP and max Defense.

    Ice Beam
    Thunderbolt
    Toxic
    Rest

    Awesome special wall. Due to 200 base special defense I can leave the EV's at 0 and still take a lot of special hits with it, while boosting its physical defense for maximum overall protection. With Toxic/Rest he can stall out other defensive walls who don't have a good attack. Also works well vs double teamers with no attack as Toxic only has to hit once to grant a death wish.

    I've had a couple close calls. The Quick Claw plus Scope Lens hax quickly killed my first 3 pokemon in one match, but Regice managed to outstall a defensive Venusaur and defensive Empoleon all by himself. Another time my Latios was frozen by a Weavile Ice Punch on the first turn, plus the CPU hit a Fissure on my Regice, but Garchomp managed to single-handedly Earthquake their last two pokemon to death.

    EDIT: I'll post a screenshot later as my DS is currently recharging.
  16. -Marcel-

    -Marcel-

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2007
    Messages:
    481
    Jumpman,

    Why you dont put Fake Tears on Lopunny? You dont need the hax that your opponent has the right gender. I think its an good choice over Charm.
  17. NC

    NC

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2005
    Messages:
    1,424
    Fake tears lowers their special defense and charm works on both genders.

    edit vvv: I don't understand why you want want to lower special defense. I could see if it were special attack...
  18. Carl

    Carl or Varl
    is a Smogon IRC AOp Alumnusis a Super Moderator Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnusis a Past SPL Winner

    Joined:
    Dec 23, 2004
    Messages:
    4,540
    The real reason is because Switcheroo and Fake Tears are both breeding moves but nothing that learns Switcheroo learns Fake Tears as well so it's illegal to have both at the same time. Otherwise, yeah that should go over Sweet Kiss.
  19. FastHippo

    FastHippo

    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2007
    Messages:
    153
    How can that be the real reason? Isn't this team designed to set up the sweepers by reducing the offensive capabilities of one pokemon, that won't switch out? How does Fake Tears further that goal?
  20. Ondore

    Ondore

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2007
    Messages:
    373
    Point of order: Buneary is in the Ground group, so it can breed with Smeargle to get both if you want to go that way.
  21. Jumpman16

    Jumpman16 np: Michael Jackson - "Mon in the Mirror" (DW mix)
    is a Smogon IRC SOPis a Site Staff Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Battle Server Admin Alumnusis a Researcher Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis an Administrator Alumnus

    Joined:
    Dec 19, 2004
    Messages:
    4,774
    Yeah, the real real reason is that, with the given Switcheroo/Thunder Wave/Charm, Sweet Kiss is the only move can actually do something about dumbasses like Metagross where nothing else outside of a something like a weaksauce Fire Punch can.

    If we consider just Switch/TW/Charm, the trouble pokemon are those on which one or two of the three have no effect. Now, of the pokes that aren't affected by Switch (aside from Brightpowder/Lax Incense pokes) I'm not really threatened by Gastrodon, Muk and Lopunny (Swalot doesn't show up after battle 20), and most of the pokes that already have a Choice Scarf are going to be using a 4× NVE move on Lucario or whiffing on Latios. Absol, Tyranitar, Pinsir, Rampardos, Rhyperior and Machamp are the six Scarf pokes after battle 20, and I Charm Machamp Turn 1 anyway because of the threat of STAB Close Combat.

    The pokes TW won't work on but that I can Switch are Ground-types (besides Gastrodon) and Jolteon and Lanturn. Garchomp gives me particular trouble because one has Outrage and I have to Charm Turn 1, but everything else is pretty manageable.

    The pokes Charm won't work on but that I can Switch are the biggest issue when we're talking about what to use as a fourth move. Metagross, Froslass, Regice, P2 and PZ are all dicks because I can't lower the threatening attacking stat in question (there is a Crunch/Ice Fang Froslass but generally she's a dick and Luke's not worried about Hyper Cutter Pinsir). But even if lowering Special Defense could work in the case of Regice and Metagross after the Switch (it doesn't), and even if I could get three off (I wouldn't be able to), where does that leave me after Lopunny dies? With a Latios or Lucario that's not set up, since I can't set up in the face of either of these pokes unless I have a death wish.

    Remember, I really, really need to get either Latios or Luke set up in order to win with this team, because you can't play this team as you would a normal one, relying on good switches and unboosted SE moves. Maybe in the case of the pokes I can Switch, on which Charm won't work, but on which Fake Tears (and Thunder Wave as an aside) would are the ones where Fake Tears outshines Sweet Kiss. But this is limited to Froslass, P2 and PZ (which threaten the haxy IB and Tri Attack), all of which, at normal SpD, are OHKOed by a +1 Aura Sphere or Dark Pulse. And, again, I don't even want to do this because I need to get Luke set up as much as possible, so it wouldn't even matter if they are at -6 SpD because I need to be setting Luke up as much as possible anyway and they already die with one level (+1 vs normal) or separation.
  22. shipship

    shipship

    Joined:
    May 17, 2008
    Messages:
    177
    I finally died after 122 wins in double battles.

    My team was still Latios/Gyarados/Garchomp/Regice.

    Got owned by a mismagius/froslass/drifblim.

    I made some bad mistakes. Garchomp died to a critical hit. I thought I could kill Mismagius' bad physical defenses with a dragon danced waterfall from max attack Gyarados, although he just barely survived, while I aimed my other attack at Frosslass instead finishing off Mismagius. This was crucial as Mismagius was faster than my weakened Latios, who was faster than Froslass, so I needed to get Mismagius out of the way so he wouldn't finish off my weakened Latios first.

    To cap it off my last pokemon, Regice, got owned by Drifblim's destiny bond. I should have seen it coming and used toxic instead, but I'm dumb.

    [​IMG]

    Oh well, time to play single battles now. The first time I wasn't ready for the Tower Tycoon, and Milotic owned me when I activated its salac berry.
  23. -Marcel-

    -Marcel-

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2007
    Messages:
    481
    ?
    Uhh, Smeargle anyone?

    @Jumpman,I know that you had an good reason for dont putting FT on Lopunny, i really enjoy reading your reasons for the moves you choose.

    But, Sweet kiss is haxy. The opponent is never confused in cases you need it, or the confusion stopped after 1 turn. Fake Tears really help you out when you cant get of enough CM's off with Latios/Lucario to kill the opponent.

    I like the pokes in your team and you did a good job. You thougt about everything. The Resists, The Aura sphere which never misses and more. Im going to use your team to chek how it works. I think i upload an vid when im facing the 2nd Tower Tycoon to show people how it works. Its an nice strategy.
  24. Jumpman16

    Jumpman16 np: Michael Jackson - "Mon in the Mirror" (DW mix)
    is a Smogon IRC SOPis a Site Staff Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Battle Server Admin Alumnusis a Researcher Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis an Administrator Alumnus

    Joined:
    Dec 19, 2004
    Messages:
    4,774
    Thanks, but I already made it clear why I don't think Fake Tears will help me any more than Sweet Kiss will. And when I read your original post more closely and see that you suggest FT over Charm and not Sweet Kiss as I initially thought, I can't help but be confused because...that is suicide. You will be in danger of losing to pretty much every single Fighting-type in the BT if you do that, because that is the lone shared weakness on my team, one targeted from the very first turn. For specific examples:


    435 Machamp Adamant Focus Sash Counter Revenge Payback Earthquake HP/Atk

    Machamp does 97-115% with Payback to a max Def/SpD IV Latios with 4 HP EVs, and will get this off every time because of Focus Sash. And you either have to sacrifice Lopunny or switch from Lopunny to Lucario into a non-EQ, then form Luke to Latios into EQ to have a chance get Latios in at 100% HP. Further, even if Machamp didn't have a Sash it takes 90-106% from -2SpD Dragon Pulse with max HP EVs.

    Another example:

    560 Heracross Adamant Scope Lens Close Combat Aerial Ace Night Slash Bulk Up HP/Atk/Sp. Def

    This takes 76-91% from a -2SpD Dragon Pulse, and does 67-80% to my Latios with Night Slash, assuming its 18.75% to CH doesn't kick in.

    But it's not just Fighting-types. This will beat my team every time if I don't have Charm:

    893 Garchomp Jolly Focus Sash Earthquake Dragon Claw Fire Fang Crunch Atk/Speed

    EQs Lopunny 2-3 times, OHKOs Latios with Dragon Claw after the Sash activates (109% min damage), outspeeds and OHKOs Lucario with EQ.

    Believe me, I know how haxy and unreliable Sweet Kiss is, and that's why I virtually never use it. It's really a "filler" move as I stated in my OP about this team. But Fake Tears isn't going to help against the few pokemon that give me trouble with the given Switcheroo/Thunder Wave, and certainly not if it goes over Charm. If you are planning on copying this team please heed my now nearly 4,000 words of advice before thinking of changing anything...
  25. -Marcel-

    -Marcel-

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2007
    Messages:
    481
    I dont change anything. I know that you know what youre doing. But yeah, maybe fake tears was an option over that haxy Sweet kiss.
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Users Viewing Thread (Users: 0, Guests: 0)