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DP Battle Tower Records

Discussion in 'Smogon's Greatest Hits' started by Peterko, Sep 20, 2007.

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  1. -Marcel-

    -Marcel-

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2007
    Messages:
    481
    Lol. Youre fucked by Trick Room. Trick Room is the biggest problem for many team's. TR Bronzong raped me so much. I cant even count.
  2. Groombridge

    Groombridge

    Joined:
    Dec 19, 2007
    Messages:
    127
    Doubles: 73 wins

    I've been trying out a new team in Battle Tower Doubles, based on the strategy of freeing Slaking, the highest BST poke in BT, from Truant and letting it smoosh the opposition, Hulk-style.

    This is a provisional team I put together just to see if this is a good plan or not: it seems to be working, but any suggestions would be more than welcome...


    Slaking @ Life Orb
    Adamant, 252atk, 252 spd, 6hp
    ==
    Return
    Night Slash
    Brick Break
    Slack Off

    Normally, this just brings the pain with Return or whatever else. Night Slash is to spank ghosts, and BB to smack the odd steel type. Really, Return is all it needs. Once it's freed from Truant, Slack Off becomes viable, allowing it to tank physical hits with its massive HP. That's why it's got Life Orb over Choice Band: a bit of flexibility, which is kind of strange in a Slaking. Its moveset (apart from Return) is all up in the air. I didn't use EQ since that would kill Gengar after a Swap.


    Gengar @ Focus Sash
    Timid, 252spd, 252sp.atk, 6hp
    ==
    Shadow Ball
    Thunderbolt
    Skill Swap
    Destiny Bond

    Slaking's partner. Gengar is a fantastic BT poke, and it fulfils the role of Skill Swapper as well as anything. There are bulkier Swappers, but speed is essential.

    What's key to this team is how Truant works, and how Skill Swap gets around it. On loafing turns, Truant prevents move execution - but not move selection. This means that if Slaking is subject to Skill Swap on its second turn before Truant kicks in, it will attack as normal.

    In practical terms, this gives Gengar a chance to attack before Skill Swapping: on turn one, both Gengar and Slaking can attack. Then, on turn two, Gengar Swaps, immediately cancelling Truant and enabling Slaking to attack normally from thereon. Gengar is now pretty much screwed, since next turn it'll be subject to Truant. But one attack and a Swap is good value for freeing the beast. If by some miracle Gengar survives its loafing turn, it can Swap Truant onto something else to screw it up, or simply use Destiny Bond to ensure it goes out the same way it came: bringing motherfucking pain.

    What's key is that Gengar is faster than Slaking. If I'm worried that Gengar will get paralysed or KO'd, it can just Swap on turn one.

    After Swapping, Gengar becomes EQ weak and will probably die horribly, but Slaking will have Levitate. You know what that means...


    Garchomp @ Choice Scarf
    Jolly, 252atk, 252spd, 6hp
    ==
    Aerial Ace
    Fire Blast
    Outrage
    Earthquake

    This is my general-purpose Chomp, used for BT singles and Wi-Fi Room (hence the maximum speed). An Adamant one would probably be better for this team, though. Paired up with a Levitating Slaking, Chomp can EQ away with impunity. Not much can withstand sustained pummelling from Slaking and Chomp simultaneously, and the Scarf is always useful since the only other really fast thing on the team, Gengar, isn't there to sweep.

    Outrage's unpredictability (in both how long it lasts and which opponent it targets) doesn't help, but it is dead strong at least.


    Togekiss @ Leftovers
    ==
    Calm, 252hp, 100sp.atk, 52def, 100sp.def or something

    Air Slash
    Aura Sphere
    Thunder Wave
    Roost

    Flinchax Togekiss. This thing makes a decent tank, able to provide paralysis support while being immune to Chomps's EQ. It also provides some special attacking power, and I find it can take down a lot of things.

    It's important to have a backup plan. With this team, Plan B is to use Gengar in an attacking role if things look bad for Slaking, or if Gengar might have more of an effect. Slaking can switch out on its Truant turn and come back later as a hard-hitting closer. This kind of team doesn't rely as much on Skill Swap as Trick Room teams need TR, for instance. But a rampaging Slaking attacking every turn really is beautiful: things like Moltres die in one hit.

    -

    Now, new teams are all very well, but we what all really want to see is failure. This team was beaten by, of all things, a Regigigas.

    1.
    Regice + Regigigas
    Slaking + Gengar

    First turn. I took a risk and left Regigigas alone during Slow Start, and focused fire on Regice, KOing it with Return and Shadow Ball. Regibastard uses Stone Edge to no great effect on Gengar.

    Out comes Latios.

    2.
    Regigigas + Latios
    Slaking + Gengar (60%)

    Rather than rock the Swap strat, I decide to deal with Latios right away. Gengar uses Destiny Bond, and Latios takes the bait. Both of them go down. Slaking loafs - I kept it in because I feared Regiholocaustdenier's Ice Punch on Chomp and its Stone Edge on Togekiss. A mistake, in hindsight. Regiscumlord uses Brick Break on Slaking.

    Out comes Moltres; I bring out Togekiss.

    3.
    Regigigas + Moltres
    Slaking (70% or so) + Togekiss

    I know from experience that Slaking can OHKO a Moltres with Return, and that sounds good to me. Like a gimp, I don't use Thunder Wave on Registatesponsorofterror or Moltres in case it lives, but attack with Aura Sphere instead.

    Here's the problem. Return missed. I wasn't playing with a PC nearby, so I didn't realise that two of the Moltres on BT carry Brightpowder. In hindsight, I would have paralysed it as well as attacked it, but here I was relying on Slaking to deliver, and the 10% chance of a miss screwed me.

    To add insult to injury, Regicrueltytoanimals scored a critical with Crush Grip on Togekiss, knocking off about 70% of its HP. Togekiss took a chunk back with Aura Sphere, but it was still standing there. Mocking.

    Moltres also KO'd Slaking with Flamethrower. So it goes.

    4.
    Regigigas (75%) + Moltres
    Garchomp + Togekiss (30%)

    This doesn't look good. That crit put Togekiss in a bad place - I select Roost to try and cancel weaknesses to Stone Edge and Ice Punch as well as bring it back to fighting health. As for Chomp, it has to be Outrage.

    Outrage hits Regikiddiefiddler, but doesn't quite finish the job, prompting me to consider breeding an Adamant Chomp. Moltres finishes off Togekiss before it has a chance to Roost.

    So it falls to Regihateyouhateyouhateyou. The AI does make some dumb moves from time to time, so there's a chance...

    RegiworsethantheNazis used Ice Punch!
    Garchomp died twice!

    And there went my streak. You know the worst part?

    Slow Start was still in effect.

    -
    Regardless, this team has done pretty well, and I think with some modifications, it could break 100. Any suggestions?
  3. -Marcel-

    -Marcel-

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2007
    Messages:
    481
    Is it allowed to use OHKO moves on the battle tower? I mean. When i use OHKO moves on my pokes, can i be listed?
  4. hbdragon88

    hbdragon88

    Joined:
    May 7, 2007
    Messages:
    423
    I'm going to assume that you're going to use Arti for this, as 30% on its own relies on way too much luck, and Smeargle has bad defenses.

    You can, but the AI will probably tear the shit out of you before you get that high. When I tried this with an MR/SC Articuno in the Frontier, I was smacked hard by Rock Blast, Rock Slide, and other stuff. I'm in deadly fear of that new move - can't remember - 80% accurcy, high critical hit, and 100 power. As if Articuno didn't have enough problems already with 4x weakness, this was like the icing on the cake.

    And if you use Smeargle, defenses are pretty bad, and Quick Claw can't be relied on. You could Sash to get one hit in, I suppose. If you try to Spore you'll get stopped cold by Insomnia/Vital Spirit Pokemon, and Early Bird Pokemon will wake up too fast before you can get set up (for him I used Sub/Spore/MR/SC). You absolutely need Sub in case they wake up early.

    Don't try Double Team. My Arti had DT/Brightpowder, and it didn't work. Poliwrath hit me three times in a row with Water Pulse despite having three DTs up. Igglybuff smacked me with Sing with four DTs up. Better to hit them as hard as you can, no evasion, since evasion only works for the AI, it seems.

    If you use Arti, make sure you have a good Water move. Water will hit every Sturdy type for neutral damage at least, with Golem and Rhydon taking four times the damage. Fire is another good move against Skarmory, Magneton, and Steelix.

    If you want to try, I suggest putting Arti/Smeargle in the back, and let it rip with the others to avoid the Rock/Fighting syndrome. This may also backfire as well. Three Pokemon is already asking for a brutal all-out offensive onslaught. But, if Jumpman is any indicator, he's already breaking that conception with Switcheroo Lopunny. So it may work. And against those DTers Mind Reader will be a godsend.

    Try not to have a double weakness. Unfortunately, Ice is shit because Arti is flying, which means that he doesn't resist Ice. It resists Grass and Bug, so I imagine a strong powerhouse Pokemon could be...well I don't know actually. If you have something weak to Grass/Bug, you could throw Arti in there, since he has good defenses, and fire away. You could also try the Rock-resist berry, that'll allow you to take down one Pokemon at least. I have not run tests to see how many "second Pokemon" use Rock moves after the first obvious one.
  5. -Marcel-

    -Marcel-

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2007
    Messages:
    481
    No. I was thinking of using machamp with No Guarf compared with a fast OHKO user could really rape the tower. I know. It's lame to use. But you get the point.
  6. Carl

    Carl or Varl
    is a Smogon IRC AOp Alumnusis a Super Moderator Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnusis a Past SPL Winner

    Joined:
    Dec 23, 2004
    Messages:
    4,540
    I'm assuming you're talking about doubles for that. No Guard only affects moves used by Machamp or against Machamp. So unless you're going to be using moves like Sheer Cold on your partner Machamp, the OHKOs are still going to be at their normal bad accuracy for attacking opponents. As for singles, Articuno is bulky enough and everything else it's just that some of its weaknesses make it harder to abuse. Plus you have to use Mind Reader, so it's really a 2HKO on every single pokemon instead of a OHKO. Which, really, it's just easier to abuse type advantages or AI's lack of switching to just stat up for a turn or two and then have OHKOs by doing a lot of damage.
  7. Xyle

    Xyle

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2008
    Messages:
    2
    Trainer ID: Xyle
    Current Streak: 105

    Unintentionally, this somewhat combines the two Jumpman sets/strategies, and has given me a lot of success since I started using it. I would lead with...

    [​IMG]
    Alakazam @ Choice Scarf
    Timid / 4 Hp, 252 SpA, 252 Spe
    -Psychic
    -Shadow Ball
    -Thunder Wave
    -Trick

    Using Trick to swap held items on the opening turn. If I survive after the first turn, I use Thunder Wave. I bring in Tyranitar if Alakazam dies after the opening turn, or if Alakazam is still alive after the second turn. If still alive, Alakazam is then available late game, as a backup plan. So far, he's only been needed once to finish off the computer's last pokemon, and for the most part he's either not used or killed right after tricking. From there, I bring in...

    [​IMG]
    Tyranitar @ Life Orb
    Jolly / 4 Hp, 252 Att, 252 Spe
    -Crunch
    -Rock Slide
    -Dragon Dance
    -Torment

    It sets up the potential sweep by setting up the sandstorm upon entering, thereby ruining the focus sashers and allowing Garchomp to evade an attack every once in a while because of Sand Veil. I've been saved so many times because of this extra evasion. With Tyranitar still out, I have an option. If the computer's pokemon is stuck using an attack that's either an ice or dragon move, I setup with Tyranitar, dragon dancing until I feel comfortable in trying to sweep. Usually that's 3 or 4 uses of Dragon Dance. If the computer's pokemon is stuck using any other move, I use Torment on them, causing the pokemon to Struggle every other turn. This helps with the more powerful and dangerous moves, and gives Garchomp a chance to breath every other turn. Once Tyranitar is either killed or done setting up, I bring in...

    [​IMG]
    Garchomp @ Leftovers
    Adamant / 4 Hp, 252 Att, 252 Spe
    -Earthquake
    -Dragon Claw
    -Swords Dance
    -Substitute

    I put out a Substitute the same turn the opponent uses struggle to preserve the sub, and proceed to Swords Dance behind it, with Leftovers healing me. Once I'm set up behind my sub, I proceed to sweep.

    Biggest problems: The more powerful, higher bp moves like Stone Edge. I can't tell you how many times my substitute has been broken by a critical hit. Almost every time it'll be a critical hit. I've also had to try and sweep with Garchomp naked, not behind a sub, and it's worked out so far.

    Biggest saves: The use of Sand Veil. I've been face to face with a Weavile a few times, with only my Garchomp remaining on my team, and the only reason I won was because their Weavile missed and allowed me to knock them out.

    Second thoughts: I'm considering the replacement of Tyranitar with a more ideal wall that can set up Sandstorm, possibly Bronzong. Any thoughts?
  8. Eneko300

    Eneko300

    Joined:
    Jun 17, 2008
    Messages:
    3
    Somebody told me I should post my BT team here, so yeah. I need help.


    I can't really make a team to get me to a 105 streak in Battle Tower. I came up with this team after see that my team had to wall/tank/sponge to speak of.

    Gengar(Timid)@Focus Sash
    4 HP/252 SAtk/252 Spd, IV: 31 SAtk/31 Spd
    -Shadow Ball
    -Thunderbolt
    -Destiny Bond
    -Taunt

    *Gengar's man role is to take out atleast one opposing Pokemon. I aim for two but that doesn't always work. Shadow Ball is the main Battling move, powerful and STABed. Thunderbolt is for the same reason but without the STAB. Considering Gengar good speed stat [Base110] allows it to normaly go first. So if I know I cant take out my foe with SB or T-bolt Destiny to the rescue. Taunt is for shuting down walls/tanks/sponges and the ever so oying teams that think Double Team is the best freaking move ever.

    Bronzong(Relaxed)@Leftovers
    252 HP/108 Atk/20 Def/130 Sdef, IV:0 Spd
    -Gyro Ball
    -Earthquake
    -Explosion
    -Hypnosis

    *Great Wevile counter which give my team some troubles. I want a good 300 in each def when level 100. This is the reason I don't have Hypnosis on Gengar cause Bronzy has it. Like Gengar, Bronzy has a if all else fails move, Explosion.

    Garchomp(Jolly)@Choice Scarf
    252 HP/252 Atk/4 SDef, IV: 31Atk/31 Spd
    -Stone Edge
    -Earthquake
    -Outrage
    -Fire Blast

    *Out of every Weavile I have battled in BT none had a Choice Scarf. So with this set, Garchomp can out run all Weavile and all non-scarfed Pokemon whose base speed stat is 130 or less. GAarchomp can take out a lot of Pokemon with just Outrage. When I need to swtich it's Bronzong who puts them to sleep, then switch out to Garchomp who kills them if Bronzy cant handle them, normally slower foes like Snoerlax.
  9. TVboyCanti

    TVboyCanti

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2006
    Messages:
    1,285
    76 wins:

    Typhlosion Suicune and Garchomp

    Streak ended on the seventh battle of the eleventh round by my DS freezing. Stupid DS lite. I'll post the evs and stuff when I get to 100 wins.
  10. Morty

    Morty

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2008
    Messages:
    63
    First Post EVER!

    This is my first ever post on smogon, because i told myself i wouldnt post until i could post here. Well i finally did it and am still going with 107 wins with my amazing team of

    Gengar-modest-focus sash
    shadow ball
    sludgebomb
    energy ball
    destiny bond

    Suicune-bold-Leftovers
    calm mind
    rest
    surf
    ice beam

    Garchomp-Jolly-choice band
    outrage
    fire fang
    stone edge
    earthquake

    YEAH!!!
  11. garo

    garo

    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2008
    Messages:
    155
    Ok here´s the thing, since we all know switching pokes in the middle of a battle is an essential part of the competitive metagame, as well as prediction, so again since we all know since the ruby battle tower the AI has its limitations, so if the AI cheats on us with insane hax, we need to figure out ways to control it and don’t let the luck beat us, the primary objective is to win 100 battles and get a star for the trainer card, then some trainers wants to get a higher streak and maybe make a list (hi peterko lol) with the best streaks listed on it. A well designed team with good pokes can reach the 100 streak within no more than five tries I think, in the process you surely figure out that even with a good team you can lose against a pathetic poke just because the insane hax, so if you want an almost foolproof team to reach a good streak you need more than a good team with great synergy, what you need is a strategy involving your three pokes, even better what you need is a way to manipulate the AI without cheating, a way to control the hax… I mean the insane hax lol, a way to take the AI on a walk to the park like a dog and leave the AI with no other choice than do what you want.

    So the tower was implemented for first time in third generation, since then a big flaw in the AI is the lack of switching capabilities of it and with the fourth generation we have at our disposal a locking item that don’t raise the attack, that’s right the choice scarf, finally the puzzle is complete and we can abuse this flaw without mercy, so last august I designed a team trying to abuse this flaw, the obvious limitation is that you only can use three pokes and using one for the tricker purpose leaves you with two slots, I already had an alakazam tricker so I took it, then I searched for two pokes that could resist the whole 17 different types and also had good defenses, I picked dragonite and registeel, electric attacks remained uncovered and magnezone could do the job but I picked registeel anyway because it has amazing defenses on both special and physical sides. I don’t exactly remember the EVs distribution and movesets of my first team but they was kinda bad because I didn’t research a lot and I didn’t put effort making the team I mean I suddenly had the idea and in two days I was battling with the new team, I reached above fifty victories but I didn’t even was close at reaching 100, so after a few tries I stopped battling at the tower and focused on other things like the other four stars.

    This year I battled again at the tower, it was around February or march I think, and I trained few teams: double team based, blissey based, rain dancer ludicolo based and so on. Then I saw the jumpman´s post where he posted his new project: a switcheroo team, I was glad that somebody was putting effort in a team abusing the switching flaw, and I dusted away my old tricker team but I was busy at school leaving me not enough time to improve it, so now I finally finished and used my team at the tower getting this great record: 276 victories in a row.

    First of all I researched the different possibilities of trick/swticheroo pokes because I felt alakazam wasn’t good for the job, I mean alakazam is a great versatile poke but with other niches, I picked rotom because it has enough speed to outspeed everything with some EV and the choice scarf, it electric typing covers my lack of electric resistance and also has thunder wave and confuse ray for support, I didn’t think about the fourth slot it just finished with shock wave when it reached level 50 lol, then came the tough decisions keep or toss dragonite and registeel, I kept both.

    rotom@ choice scarf (look a little pathetic ghost!!, wait a minute……)
    levitate
    252 hp / 49 def / 49 sp def / 160 spd (this is the spread my rotom required because the bad IVs, so basically just give rotom the required EVs to reach 134 in speed, give 252 EVs in Hp and split the remaining EVs in the defenses)
    timid
    *
    trick
    thunder wave
    confuse ray
    shock wave

    In first place registeel, with its great defenses and the most important factor: it is the only pure steel type (mawile is too weak to take hits) meaning it has 11 resistances and one immunity (only five more types to cover lol), and surely it needs the great defenses to stall because the lack of recovery move (beside rest obviously), so its defenses and resistances give him enough time to raise its defenses and attack, while it recovers hp from lefties that eventually become more hp restored than hp lost, indeed with a registeel fully set upped even super effective moves barely scratch him (never more than 30 hp lost), your only threat are critical hits (unstabed critical super effective hits can´t OHKO him in most cases) for this reason and for the status afflictions as well is why substitute is in the moveset, so basically after set upped 3 amnesias an 6 curses make your substitute and iron head the opposition, any poke without rest will fall easily, even resistant types will fall in two or three turn most of the times, pokes with stat up moves and rest are the bigger problem here you will beat them anyway but only after a long stall war, for this reason I recommend to put some PP UPs in registeel moves to make his stall job easier .

    registeel@ leftovers (what the hell are you looking at with those seven eyes!!)
    clear body
    252 hp / 128 def / 128 sp def
    hardy (impish is the right nature but I only have this registeel hardy so I use it)
    *
    iron head
    curse
    amnesia
    substitute

    On the other hand dragonite doesn’t have great defenses, it is just above the average but it is capable of set up faster than registeel and has a reliable recovery move: roost, so it can easily switch in when you face a ground, water, grass,fighting or bug move, also you can set up with dragonite when you face any set up move, some status inflict move, low powered moves like shadow ball from one of the cresselias (the one that make damage less than half on rotom lol), basically DD six times while recovering periodically, make your substitute and sweep, the only pokes that will resist an outrage (besides the focus sashed ones obviously and some focus banded) are some steel types like aggron and steelix but aren’t the big issue, I only faced once both of them on the same trainer (second and third pokes of one of the policeman I thought) and anyway dragonite kill them lol, indeed many steel types die with one outrage anyway.

    dragonite@ persim berry (don’t say fat dragon or he will kick your ass)
    inner focus
    252 hp / 252 atk
    adamant
    *
    outrage
    dragon dance
    roost
    substitute

    Well… now I will list the possible threats this team may face.

    1 : Burn status, Flame body pokes, will-o-wisp. 543 Nidoqueen Modest Wide Lens Earth Power Sludge Bomb Fireblast Blizzard HP/Sp. Atk - Every time that you face a fire attack in your first turn you must be careful because the chance of getting burned, the same for flame body pokes and will-o-wisp users, when you successfully trick the fire attack or lock the flame body poke immediately switch out rotom because you may need help from him later if you get really unlucky and dragonite can´t KO the last poke, then you will face a weakened poke and if registeel can´t switch in to set up safely, is here where a confuse ray or a thunder wave from rotom save your ass, if you face a will-o-wisp user before switching out rotom is recommendable to paralyze and confuse the foe, with 75% accuracy and these statuses you have a good chance at switching in dragonite and substitute before became burned, you must set up with dragonite obviously because if registeel gets burned becomes death weight for the team, so you must get 6 DD as your priority and then substitute with the maximum health you can to prevent dying in the next turns from burn damage, if the flame body poke doesn’t represent much risk is recommendable wait until he dies from recoil damage from struggle, this way you prevent become burned before facing the second poke. The reason because I listed nidoqueen here is that dragonite only got burned immediately in the switch out less than five times in my streak and mainly because this poke, each time I faced nidoqueen she burned my dragonite in the switch out with fireblast and become burned since the first is more dangerous than get burned on later turns, indeed the couple of times I don’t win easily came with nidoqueen burning dragonite and registeel finishing the weakened last poke.

    2 : Abomasnow.- The trouble here is snow warning while being the lead of the trainer, each abmasnow I faced get locked in ice moves and never in grass moves meaning I need to switch out registeel and with the endless hail nullifying the lefties recovery the safest way I found is count the turns while you use amnesia and exactly when he uses the first struggle switch out dragonite, set up twice and substitute, the majority of pokes in the tower struggle five times before dying but each abomasnow I faced has hp divisible by four, so keep it in mind.

    3 : 790 Gastrodon Sassy Quick Claw Earthquake Waterfall Stone Edge Curse HP/Sp. Def .-I don’t know exactly how the abilities are picked in the tower, I don’t remember well but I think I faced the same lanturn with lefties and confuse ray twice, the first time I couldn’t paralyze him because volt absorb but the second time I faced him I tried again and I succeeded meaning he has illuminate, so the only time I faced this gastrodon as the foe´s lead he beat me because is the only sticky holder that represent danger to my team I can set up on the other ones, but this one with curse, stone edge and earthquake is impossible to set up on his face, so when I faced him I tried switching between registeel and dragonite, wasting earthquakes on dragonite and vanishing stone edges on registeel, when he ran out of stone edges he also had used some curses, but anyway I prepared to set up with dragonite, he QC while I was set upping and almost killed dragonite but I roosted away the damage, but again when I started outraging he QC and fainted my dragonite, obviously rotom and registeel didn’t stand on his way. I think that if I face him again as a lead there will be two options: trick and hope he has storm drain (I wrote about lanturn because of this) or confuse him since the first and switch out dragonite to kill him before he use curses too many times, after all he doesnt have a recovery source so maybe attack quickly is the best option, also he needs one curse to 2HOKO dragonite with stone edge so that will be an advantage if he wastes one turn hitting himself for the confusion or missing a stone edge(I know this is too dependent of luck but this guy is really hard as a lead).

    Next I describe how to use this team, this isn’t specified turn by turn because the number of turns are very variable, the marks means steps read each step and pick the best action for the situation, even with this outline it’s very important the use of personal experience at the tower and maybe do something different as you see it fit.

    *Always start with trick unless when you face gastrodon, in this case read the above analysis about this poke.

    *Every time you have the opportunity to use thunder wave and confuse ray do it (confuse ray is not recommendable if the poke uses a recoil move or will struggle in few turns), but remember that is highly recommendable keep rotom alive and switch out the poke that will set up before rotom dies.

    *If you locked the opposition successfully in a direct attack switch out the resistant poke, set up , substitute and sweep. In the rare case that you face an electric attack (938 Zapdos) set up with registeel.

    If you locked the opposition successfully in a set up move, then switch out dragonite, set up, substitute, roost and sweep.

    If you locked the opposition in a status inflict move or a stat lowering move (like hypnosis or tail whip, except with toxic) then first paralyze and confuse with rotom, then switch out dragonite, substitute, roost, set up and sweep (when facing moves that will paralyze like thunder wave is better to set up with registeel in my experience ).

    If you locked the opposition in a low damage move that will do less than 25% to dragonite switch out him, set up, substitute and sweep.

    If you locked the opponent in a fire move read the above analysis.

    ***Notes.-It is recommendable to use the BT database and improvise in the rarely case that you detect a potential problem not stated here.
    When previously set upped with registeel and face on the second or third poke one that can’t be 3HKO, uses rest and a set up move like a curselax, in this case you will face a long stall war (remember to use PP ups so you can stall easier) , you must use curse and amnesia while renewing the substitute until the opposition runs out of attacking moves and starts using rest every turn (do not use iron head because he will rest and last longer before runs out of attacking moves), when this point is reached switch out dragonite and set up while he keeps using rest, then sweep.


    But unfortunately all good things come to an end, this is the natural way of life and my great streak ended this way:

    Turn 1
    Rotom switched ítems with moltres
    Moltres used flamethrower and got locked.
    Rotom lost around 70% of its health

    Turn 2
    Moltres used flamethrower
    Rotom fainted
    Dragonite switched in
    *My first mistake of the battle, I should not have left him die.

    Turn 3
    Moltres used flamethrower
    Dragonite lost around 25% of its health and got burned
    Dragonite used dragon dance
    Many turns (10 turns for example) with moltres attacking and dragonite healing while it gets 6 DD and a substitute.
    *dragonite burned on the switch out, this can’t be good

    Turn 14
    Dragonite used outrage
    Moltres fainted
    Dragonite is hurt by its burn (like 48 hp remaining and a sub)
    Trainer sent out regirock
    *more bad news, regirock cant be OHKO with dragonite burned

    Turn 15
    Dragonite used outrage
    Regirock lost like 70% of its health
    Regirock used stone edge and broke the sub
    Dragonite is hurt by its burn (like 25 hp remaining)

    Turn 16
    Dragonite used outrage
    Regirock fainted
    Dragonite gets confused, persim berry snapped it out of its confusion
    Dragonite is hurt by its burn (like 2 hp remaining)
    Trainer sent out heatran
    *Damn!!!! This cant be truth, heatran cannot be OHKO with dragonite burned, rotom is fainted and face heatran with registeel without previous set up is the worst nightmare because the x4 resistance to iron head and the stabed fire moves.

    Turn 17
    Dragonite used outrage
    Heatran lost around 60% of its health
    Heatran used stone edge
    Dragonite fainted
    Garo sent out registeel
    *at this point I just prayed for a critical hit that obviously didn’t show his face.

    Turn 18
    Heatran used fire fang
    Registeel lost around 40% of its health and got burned
    Registeel used amnesia
    Registeel is hurt by its burn and got some hp from lefties.
    *in a stupid choice I used amnesia because I thought heatran had magma storm (I should have used the BT database more in my streak), anyway since I saw “registeel got burned” I knew that that was the worst scenario my team could face.

    Turn 19
    Heatran used fire fang
    Registeel lost around 40% of its health
    Registeel used iron head
    Registeel is hurt by its burn and got some hp from lefties

    Turn 20
    Heatran used fire fang
    Registeel fainted


    Here is it, finally the end of this post, if you fully read it thanks for your time I hope you enjoyed it, feel free to use this team, post your opinions and any suggestion on how to improve it further, I will try more streaks with this team but I don’t think I would do that soon because this 276 battles needed like 26 hours of playing and this is a lot of time I think, but anyway I’m very happy I reached a good streak and it totally worth the time, also I’m happy because I used dragonite one of my favorite pokes (the second one, my favorite is mewtwo but it is banned in tower, I have more favorite pokes but this is not a favorite poke thread lol), so again thanks for reading, see ya!!
  12. Jumpman16

    Jumpman16 np: Michael Jackson - "Mon in the Mirror" (DW mix)
    is a Smogon IRC SOPis a Site Staff Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Battle Server Admin Alumnusis a Researcher Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis an Administrator Alumnus

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    good job garo, congrats on your streak. i have a few suggestions for you that are guaranteed to help your team if you decide to start a new streak again.

    the first and most important is: get rid of shock wave. with all the effort you've put into detailing your strategy i'm surprised you haven't taken another look at rotom's movepool. Will-o-wisp or Reflect would go a long way to remedying your problems with gastrodon and burn status (most notably from flare blitz), and some other problems for your team that you haven't noted. Shock Wave literally has no use as far as gastrodon is concerned, and even in general because a Turn 1 Double Team is actually a great thing. If you use WoW on Gastrodon it will have a very tough time beating your Dragonite, and Reflect will help you against this:

    825 Rapidash Jolly Passho Berry Flare Blitz Megahorn Hypnosis Sunny Day Atk/Speed

    which I'm pretty sure will beat you every time if you actually use Trick first turn with Rotom and it uses Flare Blitz (this has happened to my team). It does 26% max against 31/31 HP/Def IV Dragonite (which you admit to not having) meaning both that you can't Sub and that it can 3-4HKO Dragonite and it will be faster even after two Dragon Dances. this is reason enough to go with either WoW or Reflect

    second: your rotom needs at least 44 more speed EVs unless you're ok with losing it to this every time:

    782 Absol Jolly Choice Scarf Night Slash Shadow Claw Slash Zen Headbutt Atk/Speed

    Finally, you may want to go with Lum Berry on Dragonite to deal with Thunder Wave users like Jolteon, because FP would suck on even a fully set up Registeel and obviously Dragonite would not like paralysis one bit.

    taking any of these suggestions will greatly improve your team, good luck in the future. I would actually suggest rebreeding rotom and dragonite, since depending on your rotom's IVs all it takes it one QC from rhydon or rhyperior for you to be in a world of shit (remember, my starmie team was derailed by this very 16-17% "hax" at 203 wins)
  13. christopher_ 1942

    christopher_ 1942

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2006
    Messages:
    195
    Well, my Single Battle Record is 57 win streak.

    I used:

    Salamence @ Choice Scarf
    Modest/ 252 Sp. Atk 252 Speed
    Draco Meteor
    Dragon Pulse
    Flamethrower
    Hydro Pump

    Metagross @ Life Orb
    Adamant/ 252 Atk/152 HP/104 Speed
    Meteor Mash
    Explosion
    Rock Polish
    Earthquake

    Shiny Dusknoir @ Leftovers
    Careful/ 252 HP/76 Def/180 Speed
    Shadow Sneak
    Will-O-Wsp
    Ice Punch
    Pain Split

    And my Double Battle record is 53 win streak.
    I used the same 3 Pokemon in the Single Battle and with:

    Jolteon @ Petaya Berry
    Timid/ 252 Speed / 252 SpA / 4 HP
    Thunderbolt
    Shadow Ball
    Subsitute
    Hidden Power Ice

    It was getting good so far in my opinion.
  14. JohnR011

    JohnR011

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2008
    Messages:
    47
    Alright I completed 79 straight battles in the WiFi Battle Tower on Rank 10 before losing. The team I used was the same as my singles battle tower team -

    Gengar @ Focus Sash
    Timid: Levitate
    252 SA, 252 SP, 4 HP
    -Shadow Ball
    -Thunderbolt
    -Counter
    -Destiny Bond

    This was probably the most useful member of my team. Gengar would usually take out at least two of the opponent's pokemon either by using shadow ball/thunderbolt or by making use of his counter-sash and then destiny bonding the next. After Gengar had served his purpose, I usually had either already won the match or it was a 2-1 situation.

    Metagross @ Lum Berry
    Adamant: Clear Body
    252 AT, 252 HP, 4 SP
    -Meteor Mash
    -Bullet Punch
    -Earthquake
    -ThunderPunch

    There are several things that I wanted to do to deviate from the set I normally use in bt for Metagross. First I gave him a lum berry as he was my only real thing keeping me from a Yanmega sweep. Next I gave him ThunderPunch over explosion because I liked having another accurate, non self destructing move to be able to fall back on when earthquake and meteor mash weren't good options to use. On this team, Metagross only really had one job and that was to make good use of his priority move. If things went as planned, and they normally did, Gengar could take out the first two, Metagross could come in next and at the very least hit them with bullet punch to break any sashes so that Garchomp could come in and take out his last pokemon.

    Garchomp @ Choice Scarf
    Adamant: Sand Veil
    252 AT, 252 SP, 4 HP
    -Outrage
    -Earthquake
    -Crunch
    -Fire Fang

    Garchomp never actually saw much playing time, but when he did, he got the job done. With a scarf and very strong stab moves, he easily took on whatever was left.

    This team lost against a counter-sash Tyranitar, Garchomp, and a double - teaming Cresselia, an annoyance to say the least.

    Here is the picture, the proof of my streak - it says I am on Rank 9 but that's because when you lose once in Rank 10 you drop in rank.

    http://s306.photobucket.com/albums/nn251/JohnR011/?action=view&current=2008-06-15-07091.jpg
  15. garo

    garo

    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2008
    Messages:
    155
    thanks a lot for your support jumpman, i really appreciate it. im glad you read my post and found useful advices, excellent ones as usual, indeed with rotom you made very good suggestions i definitely will put reflect or WoW on it, it will be a tough decision to pick one because reflect will wore off after five turns but doesnt hurt the opponent poke that will be an advantage giving me more turns to set up in case i force him to struggle, also WoW cant burn fire types but lasts longer, anyway WoW or reflect in that fourth slot will improve my team greatly, as i said i dont really picked a move for that slot, rotom stick with it when i trained him and i just leave him with it, when i was battling at the tower i sense that other move would be better (maybe the fact that i never used shock wave gave me a clue lol) and now with your suggestions im sure that shock wave will be replaced, also as you said when the opposition used double team in turn 1 and got locked i laughed every time because i set upped with dragonite freely and just sweep them.


    an interesting fact is that every rapidash lead i faced used megahorn against rotom, so i assume that i never faced the rapidash with flare blitz, otherwise he must used it, i think i faced a rapidash that got locked in sunny day but i cant remember if was holding chesto berry or pasho berry.

    with the absol lead you mentioned i think that i just need to switch in registeel because he resist the four attacks, so i think im ok with it.
    the lum berry over persim is a hard decision because i frequently snapped out of confusion because persim and a +6 attack dragonite hitting himself is bad.

    thanks again for the advices jumpman and i also expect news of your switcheroo team because im sure it will give you an even greater streak.
  16. Jumpman16

    Jumpman16 np: Michael Jackson - "Mon in the Mirror" (DW mix)
    is a Smogon IRC SOPis a Site Staff Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Battle Server Admin Alumnusis a Researcher Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis an Administrator Alumnus

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    no problem...also it isn't as easy as just switching out of the choice scarf absol because you likely won't know until after turn 1 unless you're facing a trainer that only uses pokemon from a certain "tier" (what TRE posted about earlier). switching registeel into a Taunt (two absol have it) will not exactly put you at ease. This one:

    374 Absol Calm White Herb Slash Pursuit Double Team Taunt Def/Sp. Def

    will Pursuit Rotom on ths wtich to Registeel for a lot of damage and Taunt/DT Registeel, Taunt Registeel for a "free" Double Team, or DT on the switch, all of which kinda suck for you. And this one:

    510 Absol Adamant Focus Sash Swagger Punishment Sucker Punch Taunt HP/Atk

    will Taunt the Registeel switch then swagger the switch back to Rotom which would suck, or use Swagger on the switch regardless then Punishment (this seems like a really cool set in theory, something the BT itself would succumb to). This can all be solved by just adding Speed EVs to Rotom though

    and regardless like you mentioned it is a real time commitment, i am at 147 as of today and i seriously cannot be bothered to play more than 7 battles a day because it's so boring sometimes lol
  17. garo

    garo

    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2008
    Messages:
    155
    well indeed it is simple as give EVs in speed to rotom but also im concerned about its surviability because even with average IVs my rotom survive many non stabed super efective hits and EVs in defenses are important, what i thought when i said that registeel will have no problem to set up on absol´s face i pretended to use trick in turn 1 as always and if the absol has choice scarf and beated my rotom just switch out registeel, so i just need reach 140 in speed to outspeed this absol maybe i would do it, especially if i take in consideration that rotom with reflect or WoW (i need to decide which one to pick lol) will change the first turn strategy when facing certain pokes.

    i absolutely understand you when you said that a 200+ streak may be boring, but i think that also is a lot of pressure because you need to put total attention when having a good streak, i mean if you get distracted by a second it could ruin the streak and waste the time you invested, in order to get my streak i played like four days more than 6 hours per day, and to reach a new high streak i think i will do like you playing only few battles per day, so take your time and good luck, there´s nothing to worry about when battling with a team that is almost perfect. i will start a new streak from 0one of these days lololol.

    an idea i have: rotom will do wonders if he does learn safeguard but unfortunately he doesnt lolol.
  18. FastHippo

    FastHippo

    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2007
    Messages:
    153
    My team from page 19, post #457 is currently at 133 wins.

    Hippowdon @ Focus Sash
    Garchomp @ Lum Berry
    Lucario @ Choice Scarf

    I seemed to have found an error in the database. This Honchkrow was doing about 34% to my Hippo with Drill Peck. I could see the stats being off by 100, except that I was outspeeding it.

    Honchkrow 3 Adamant Quick Claw 75 57 20 18 52 20 Sucker Punch Drill Peck Frustration Roost

    My next update will be when I get to 147 or I lose.
  19. garo

    garo

    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2008
    Messages:
    155
    yeah there is a typing error in the database, porygon z also have stats under 100 which is clearly illogical. i downloaded this database like four months ago so maybe the error is already corrected.
  20. Jumpman16

    Jumpman16 np: Michael Jackson - "Mon in the Mirror" (DW mix)
    is a Smogon IRC SOPis a Site Staff Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Battle Server Admin Alumnusis a Researcher Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis an Administrator Alumnus

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    Messages:
    4,768
    i think your best course of action would be to stay in and use trick on absol because rotom is already stretching its defenses thin and and scarf absol's going to have a tough time beating registeel even if half of its night slashes CH. if you used safeguard with trick/tw/cr then you'd have to trick absol even if you were faster and it would be the same result meaning you would trick regardless, but if you have wow/reflect AND are faster then you would use that first. safeguard would help for things that use TW/WoW themselves first turn but wouldnt against flare blitz so i wouldnt use it

    about "pressure"...nah. i feel as much "pressure" on battle 50 as i do on 200, you have to pay the same amount of attention to every battle (at least on turn 1, lol) and the rest of it is what gets "boring", like when I switch a Jolteon Thunderbolt or something and I actually have to "pay attention" for the next 10-15 turns because it's faster and I have to keep a Sub up while CMing even though I know I am going to win unless it gets like 4 CHes in a row. it's so "boring" that i pretty much refuse to give the DS my full attention when I'm playing anymore, and by that i mean i will be playing poker online or surfing the web or reading some battle logs or watching tv/shoddy or something while im playing because honestly, the second a trainer sends out pokemon like Torterra or Mr. Mime or Donphan or Suicune it is 99.999999% over and certainly 100% over until the 10-15 turns it takes for latios to get set up.

    breaking 331 (my goal, what is up tre) in this regard is very literally a "matter of time" as you touched upon at the end, since i'm both very confident in my team and the strategies ive come up with over the last four month and very well aware of the fact that devoting 20+ hours of your life to just pokemon (100% attention to the DS) is really not the best idea, lol
  21. Groombridge

    Groombridge

    Joined:
    Dec 19, 2007
    Messages:
    127
    I think there's a compromise to be made in the BT, between ensuring consistent victory and having fun while playing. This also touches on a successful team's style and how it distinguishes itself.

    It seems to me that for Jump's excellent Lopunny team, most of the thought and strategy went into its planning. Jump clearly identified what he wanted his team to do - exploit the AI's lack of switching - and designed a team to do exactly that. Hence, there is less to do 'in-game', because most of the brain work is already done - so that 'the second a trainer sends out pokemon like Torterra or Mr. Mime or Donphan or Suicune it is 99.999999% over.' Special cases aside, all that remains is putting the time in to get the wins the team is made to get.

    A lot of the more sweeper-centric teams (I've run a few) seem to play differently. With your grab-bag of Gengars, Chomps, Metagrosses, Gyarados etc., you might not have a clear plan in mind other than 'sweep'. This means you play each game 'in the moment' a bit more, planning ahead but responding to each situation as it develops. There's no formula for success like in Jump's team, or TRE's Trick Room Doubles team, so you have to wing it to an extent - the brain work is done 'in-game'.

    I'm not saying that having a clear strategy makes the game any less 'fun', but I can see that it makes BT more repetitive. Of course, there's nothing fun about a your team of randoms constantly getting beaten because you didn't have a plan. Personally, I try to strike a balance: my Slaking doubles team above tries to use Skill Swap to unlock the sloth's attacking potential, but it can be flexible if need be. So I get to engage my 'opponent' while also sometimes feeling smarter than my DS.

    This is a game, so we should find ways to enjoy it - I suppose the different teams we all create in response to the same challenge reflect what we want from the game.
  22. makiri

    makiri My vast and supreme will shall be done!
    is a Tiering Contributoris a Smogon IRC AOp Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnusis a Past WCoP Winneris a SPL Winner

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    Messages:
    4,233
    Well looks like my BT run is over, got to 41 wins, and lost to some quite insane hax by this beast:

    625 Blastoise Modest Quick Claw Hydro Pump Focus Blast Ice Beam Rain Dance

    I obviously didn't plan on getting too far because my team wasn't well thought out, but the loss was huge and extremely haxy.

    First the team:

    Wobbuffet@Lum
    -Encore
    -Safeguard
    -Mirror Coat
    -Counter

    Eggy@Leftovers
    -Sunny Day
    -Sleep Powder
    -Hidden Power Fire
    -Grass Knot

    Heatran@LifeOrb
    -LavaPlume
    -Earthpower
    -Hidden Power Ice
    -Explosion

    I don't recall evs or natures, but they were very simple, nothing extravagant.

    The team was just Wobb encoring a move and switching to Eggy or Heatran based on resistances, Eggy usually set up a Sunny Day prior to attacking and Heatran would just attack. I also use their ability to cover eachother to get free switch ins between the two. Very simple but effective while it lasted most games were 3-0 with occasional 2-0s thrown in there due to a Heatran Explosion. Until I reached match 42 and came across a number 625 lead.

    Everything started normally, Wobb Encored a Blastoise Ice Beam, so a switch to Heatran would be my best bet, Heatran comes in and takes about 10 damage from Ice Beam. I use Earth Power but before Heatran moves, Blastoise's Quick Claw activated and uses Ice Beam, in addition to 10 damage Heatran is frozen. About 5 turns of Ice Beam continue and Heatran fails to defrost, at the end of Encore Blastoise Focus Blasts but misses, and the next turn Quick Claw activates again and Heatran is KOed by a Focus Blast. I bring in Eggy who gets hit by a QC Ice Beam freeze and is KOed the next turn. Wobb comes out (a little too late now that I think about it) and Mirror Coats an Ice Beam and after 2 Mirror Coats Blastoise has been defeated, but out comes a Frosslass who finishes the match with a CH Shadow Ball.

    Oh well, I gave it a try and will probably try again in another year but I learned that Wobb is a great tool for the BT, and my next team will include it.
  23. garo

    garo

    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2008
    Messages:
    155
    wobby is indeed a good poke for the tower as you said zerowing, i tried a wobby, bliss, weezing team the past year and owned like 70 battles losing to ursaring with facade when my weezing poisoned him with an unlucky sludge bomb. my wobby has shed bell which is a great item because all the damage you will be doing with counter and mirror coat, and also it has destiny bond you may think wobby is too slow for use this, but you will be surprised how many teams you can beat using only wooby, even above the battle 49. just start reflecting attacks and when you think wobby cant take enough hits to take the foe down with counter or mirror coat (in second or third opponent poke usually), start using destiny bond. i see that your wobby is there mainly to encore and help set up the swtich in, but maybe if someone want to put wobby in a team with other strategy can use my suggestions.
  24. Scarlet Spyder

    Scarlet Spyder

    Joined:
    May 3, 2007
    Messages:
    771
    So I got a record of 107 Wins in Double Battles. This team is pretty anti-hax ( beats Double Team, Focus Sash, Focus Band)

    [​IMG]
    Abomasnow @ Chople Berry (reduces Super effective Fighting moves)
    Sassy Nature
    Evs: 252 HP / 96 SpA / 160 SpD
    ~ Wood Hammer
    ~ Blizzard
    ~ Leech Seed
    ~ Protect

    [​IMG]
    Froslass @ Focus Sash
    Timid Nature
    EVs: 252 Sp. Atk/ 252 Spd/ 4 HP
    ~ Ice Beam
    ~ Thunderbolt
    ~ Psychic
    ~ Destiny Bond

    [​IMG]
    Walrein @ Leftovers
    Ice Body
    Bold Nature
    EVs: 252 HP/ 252 Def/ 4 S.Def
    ~ Protect
    ~ Substitute
    ~ Toxic
    ~ Blizzard

    [​IMG]
    Heatran @ Choice Scarf
    Mild Nature
    Evs: 20 HP / 252 SpA / 236 Spe
    ~ Overheat/ Flamethrower/ Heat Wave
    ~ Earth Power
    ~ Dragon Pulse
    ~ Explosion

    So this team is pretty broken. Froslass on its own should be able to get 2 kills. Focus Sash is just sexy. Psychic > Shadow Ball to cover Fighting weak. Abomasnow uses protect to scout for attacks and lures in Fire moves. Heatran covers several weaknesses and can explode for easy wins. Walrein stalls their last Pokemon and is very sturdy with Leftovers + Ice Body.

    So here's how I lost...

    I face Aerodactyl and Probopass. I think Aero is faster and both Pokemon can KO Froslass so I assume they will (misplay).

    Aerodactyl used Stone Edge!
    Abomasnow loses 100% of its health.

    Froslass used Destiny Bond.

    Probopass used Stone Edge
    Frosslass loses 60%.

    I am only able to kill Aerodactyl with Destiny Bond and I'm already down to my last 2 against his 3. I decided to choose Heat Wave for Heatran and it misses both targets. Horrible. In the end I lose to his Probopass and Rhydon.

    Fixes: I am going to attempt it again but put a Charti Berry (Reduces Super Effective Rock attack) on my Abomasnow. All in all, I had fun with this team and I should be able to even further next time.
  25. Garchomp of the Funk

    Garchomp of the Funk

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2008
    Messages:
    94
    This team is currently on a 168-win streak.
    [​IMG][/URL]
    [​IMG][/IMG]

    Garchomp @ Choice Band
    Jolly; Sand Veil
    4 HP, 252 Attack, 252 Speed
    Outrage
    Earthquake
    Stone Edge
    Fire Fang

    Bronzong @ Leftovers
    Brave; Levitate
    252 HP, ~200 Attack, remainder in defenses
    Trick Room
    Gyro Ball
    Earthquake
    Explosion

    Latios @ Life Orb
    Modest; Levitate
    252 Sp. Attack, 252 Speed
    Dragon Pulse
    Thunderbolt
    Calm Mind
    Recover
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