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DP Battle Tower Records

Discussion in 'Smogon's Greatest Hits' started by Peterko, Sep 20, 2007.

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  1. FastHippo

    FastHippo

    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2007
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    What did you find as the biggest drawback to that strategy? What pokemon did you use with it?
  2. garo

    garo

    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2008
    Messages:
    155
    walling pokes are somewhat good for BT, i used this team some time ago:

    wobby@shell bell
    shadow tag
    6 hp/ 252 df/ 252 sp. df
    bold
    *
    counter
    mirror coat
    destiny bond
    safeguard/encore/charm


    weezing@black sludge
    levitate
    252 hp/ 128 df/ 128 sp atk
    bold
    *
    WoW
    pain split
    sludge bomb
    haze

    blissey@leftovers
    natural cure
    128 hp/ 252 df/ 128 sp atk
    modest
    *
    counter
    flamethrower
    softboiled
    toxic


    it was quiet effective, i only gave it a few tries: lost to a OHKO user, a misplayed on ursaring giving it the guts boost and other couple of losses that i dont remember, excepting for the OHKO moves this team faced the BT with some success i think, in the few tries i did i reached like 70 victories, but stalling is really really really slow so i decided to try other teams to get the 100 streak and my trainer card star lol.

    wobby was impressive, it often took two pokes and sometimes the whole opposing team, just predict the physical or special attack and if wobby cant take the next poke with the current hp just destiny bond to death. shell bell did a great work too, with wobby doing double the damage received to the foe it shell bell recovered 1/4 of the lost hp on each attack, allowing to take the next poke with destiny bond or even with another reflecting move.

    Blissey did her job walling sp. attacks, while toxicstalling and recovering hp, countering any physical attacks and using flamethrower against the steels immune to toxic.

    Weezing was vital to this team, saving my ass from any stat up moves user
    hazing them away, crippling physical foes with WoW, sharing up damage and finishing them with sludge bomb.

    but as i said this consumes a lot of time (i mean it a looooot of time) and everytime i faced a resting poke it was even longeeeeer to outstall him, so i just searched for faster alternatives (thought my trick team is still slow, but not as much as this walling team lolol).
  3. shipship

    shipship

    Joined:
    May 17, 2008
    Messages:
    177
    Skarmory is too one-sided and can't stay in on powerful special attackers obviously. I paired it with Blissey and Tyranitar. Blissey to absorb the special hits and Tyranitar because I wanted to have some "real" offense. Tyranitar also makes for a good switch in on many attacks Skarmory hates. I reached something like 70 wins with that team, but once I lost I did not want to use that team again. I would start with T-Tar for Sandstorm, and then look for an oppening to get Skarmory in and start the SR + Whirlwind spam. Effective but took way too long.
  4. sandman423

    sandman423

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2007
    Messages:
    11
    I have been playing around in Battle Tower for the heck of it...using Team Rocket Elite's Team of Gengar, Blissey, Froslass...Here are the movesets

    Gengar @ Focus Sash
    Trait: Levitate
    Nature: Timid (+Spd, -Atk)
    EVs: 6HP, 252SpA, 252Spd
    -Thunderbolt
    -Counter
    -Shadow Ball
    -Destiny Bond

    Blissey @ Leftovers
    Trait: Natural Cure
    Nature: Bold (+Def, -Atk)
    EVs: 252HP, 252Def, 6SpD
    -Seismic Toss
    -Counter
    -Aromatherepy
    -Softboiled

    Froslass @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Snow Cloak
    Nature: Timid (+Spd, -Atk)
    EVs: 150HP, 4Def, 248SpA, 108Spd
    -Thunderbolt
    -Ice Beam
    -Taunt
    -Destiny Bond

    I can't seem to get very far in the tower...I like this team a lot because it is fun to play and I like the Immunity towards Physical and Special Sweepers, But I always got owned by a Jynx (Mean Look, Perish Song, Sweet Kiss, and another move I think Double Team, but I figured Taunt is my best friend here), Jolteon (Iron Tail, Thundebolt, ThunderWave, and a Something else..He OWNED me!), Electivire (DynamicPunch, Thunderpunch, Didn't get to see the other two moves)

    I have only gotten to 27th fight before dying to Jolteon Sweeping my team with Thunder Wave and Iron Tail. I figured out how to get that stupid Jynx by bringing in Froslass and Taunting it so it kills itself, but choice scarf on Froslass kind of screws me sometimes making me switch a lot giving the opponent a free shot. I ended up starting with Gengar always and switching in Froslass to Taunt Jynx and then switching in Gengar to two Shadow Balls which killed Jynx.

    I'm Making my way through the BT Now with the team.

    I was just wondering why Team Rocket Elite Recommended Blissey with Seismic Toss...It was a pain to get a Bold Blissey with Seismic Toss from my FR. I use Seismic Toss in the BT but it doesn't seem to work to well...It doesn't do that much damage. Aromatherapy is AWSOME in BT due to the annoying Double Status pokes using ThunderWave, Sweet Kiss, and Double team and sleep inducing attacks, Softboiled is great, and a Counter from a Blissey is OUCH!!!

    Seeking a few more tips because I am getting up to 27 again against the CPU so seeking any sort of strategys to help me get by the Electivire, Jolteon, Aerodactyl, and Quick Claw OHKO pokes. I want to get to 100 really bad.

    I talked to my friend about it and he told me that he can only get up to 50 wins before getting owned by the 100% Accurate OHKO Crawdaunt or Rhydon with Quick Claw. I got up to 44 was my highest. I want to use this team because it is fun to use.

    ::Problem Poke UPDATE::

    Muk (Black Sludge) with Minimize,Focus Punch, Toxic, Stockpile (The Opponents Muk had Max Stockpile and Minimize...I had to just Taunt him to death and make him run out of Focus Punches...Took like 30 Minutes)


    YEAH I am up to 28 Wins...
  5. SnK-arcbound

    SnK-arcbound

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2007
    Messages:
    83
    I think changing your blissey to a CM + some attacks would be much better. Counter doesn't work in the BT because any pokemon can have a special or physical attack, it is impossible to predict.

    Go find the "best" OU pokemon, slap three of them on a team, and you'll get far in the BT, it isn't that hard. You also need perfect or near perfect IV's and to EV train (incase you don't).

    I'm not an expert BTW.
  6. Jumpman16

    Jumpman16 np: Michael Jackson - "Mon in the Mirror" (DW mix)
    is a Smogon IRC SOPis a Site Staff Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Battle Server Admin Alumnusis a Researcher Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis an Administrator Alumnus

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    And not to be a dick, but your post kind of outlines that. sandman has just proven by himself that it isn't just the team that will get you a long streak in the Battle Tower, it is knowing how to use it. If he can barely get past Battle 27 with the team that's actually proven itself to be effective by notching the longest streak on our leaderboard, how do you think he's going to do with three random OU pokes? Also, we've been steadily raising the bar as far as "far" is concerned...I personally don't think one can consider his or her streak very long until it is at least approaching 200.

    You literally don't know what you're talking about so I am not sure why you felt the need to post what you did. Counter very obviously works in the BT if you know what you're doing, and TRE proved it. Without having to use his team I know that you can preemptively Counter anything but STAB fighting attacks since Blissey's the best Special Wall in the game and won't care about virtually all special attacks. She will be able to switch out of STAB Fighting attacks to one of two pokemon that are immune to them, and will not die to unSTAB Fighting attacks should the opposing pokemon use them.

    Anyway, sandman, you should rarely lose to ML Jynx because she can't hit Froslass with anything, either Struggling after the Taunt or whiffing with Drain Punch. Lovely Kiss is a concern but can be played around...I would probably leave Blissey in to sacrifice if it is one of the two with the LK/MK/PS combo, because if it's out that means you're very likely up 3-2 or 3-1. Jynx leads should be Shadow Balled and are really not a problem and are the only time you won't be able to "trade" one of your pokes to assure a win.
  7. AhrenElessedil

    AhrenElessedil

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2008
    Messages:
    158
    126 and counting.

    My team:

    Rotom @ Choice Scarf
    Timid (100 Spd / 252 HP / 80 Def / 76 SpD)
    Levitate
    -Trick
    -Thunder Wave
    -Confuse Ray
    -Reflect

    Registeel @ Leftovers
    Brave (252 HP / 132 Def / 124 SpD)
    Clear Body
    -Substitute
    -Curse
    -Amnesia
    -Iron Head

    Latias @ Lum Berry
    Timid (252 Spe / 252 SpA / 4 HP)
    Levitate
    -Substitute
    -Calm Mind
    -Recover
    -Dragon Pulse

    Just Jumpman16's team + Garo's team; the Latias + Registeel combination covers every type. I haven't had problems yet.
  8. sandman423

    sandman423

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2007
    Messages:
    11
    Well I am using the team right...I believe Team Elite Rocket says that stall pokes are effective against his team...He told me he didn't come up against the Minimize Muk...I kind of figured out how to work with the team a little better..

    ML Jynx is no Problem anymore as I figured out switching to Froslass was the best choice...I figured Froslass is the Best poke to put out against stallers because of Taunt...

    Most stallers seem to ONLY Have Focus Punch which is REALLY ANNOYING...

    because Focus Punch has 20 PP which gives the opponent 40 turns to use...I used PP Max on Taunt and I think it is 34 PP so it can cause some issues...

    I have been putting Frosslass out and then Taunt...Then I switch to Blissey and wait for the Focus Punch to counter it..

    The only issue I notice is that after I taunt if I switch to Blissey I usually switch into getting hit so sometimes I throw Gengar out there.

    I am figuring it out...Counter is Amazing with Focus Sash because it almost always guarentees a OHKO against a Poke with Night Slash against Gengar although it sucks if you run into a poke that uses Aerial Ace and it takes like 40 HP and I do 80HP Damage but it still sucks because I like to make my leading Gengar Take a Hit to 1HP and Counter Attack the opponent to kill the 1st Poke then I destiny Bond to sacrifice Gengar and then Destiny Bond with Froslass to kill the poke.

    I hate when the Opponent uses Thunder Wave, Toxic, Sandstorm because of the little hits I take can make destiny bond not work...

    But I am figuring it out and I will probably switch up the Sacrifice team to an Attack Team...

    People recommend Jumpman so I might try it out but I think I might just see how far I can get with this team..

    Wish Me luck and thanks for the help. Haha I just swept a whole team with Blissey..The team was Rapidash with Bounce, SlowKing with Zen Headbutt, Houndoom with Crunch (Counter Crazy and one destiny bond)
  9. makiri

    makiri My vast and supreme will shall be done!
    is a Tiering Contributoris a Smogon IRC AOp Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnusis a Past WCoP Winneris a SPL Winner

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    Well I've been doing lots and lots of BTing hit 70 in 1 day and I am currently at 126 and still going.

    During my team design I wanted to eliminate as much BT hax as possible, Focus Sash/Band, Evasion, and OHKOs were at the top of my list, and while I would have liked to get rid of Quick Claw and Critical Hits it would've been a bit tougher.

    During my design stage Evasion was at the top of my do not want list because once a BT Poke gets enough Double Teams up they cause some huge problems and I looked at Machamp to solve that problem, but then it leaves me wide open to OHKOs. So I moved on to Lucario and Aura Sphere, the best never miss move, but then my team started looking too much like Jumpman's so I moved on again to the king of never miss, Blizzard.

    But Blizzard only never misses in Hail so I needed Abomasnow, which then solves my Focus items do not want, and the team started to come together real well.

    Now the team (I currently do not have the EVs due to being on a public computer):

    Abomasnow Big Root (lol)
    Sassy
    Protect
    Leech Seed
    Blizzard
    Wood Hammer

    Sets up the hail, Protect lets the residual damage from Hail and Leech Seed build up and helps me scout what the AI is thinking. Blizzard is a given, strong and never misses and Wood Hammer for Waters and other things Blizzard can't really hit hard enough like Blissey. My Aboma is bulky enough to live through quite a bit, but is getting kind of slow as I see myself getting outsped quite often now because of Sassy.

    Froslass Focus Sash
    Timid
    Destiny Bond
    Blizzard
    Thunderbolt
    Hidden Power Fighting

    Froslass is my anti-OHKO Pokemon, Snow Cloak + Hail essentially means that they will not be hitting me, but in the event they do Focus Sash saves me and I continue to pound away at their HP with my attacks. There have been times where I wish I had Shadow Ball but Destiny Bond saves me from things I can't 2HKO with my other moves, and HP Fighting is for the Steel/Ice types that Aboma can't really hit.

    Gyarados Leftovers
    Adamant
    Dragon Dance
    Taunt
    Waterfall
    Earthquake

    When deciding on a final Pokemon I wanted to cover up the weaknesses that 2 Ice types bring, Fire, Fighting, Steel are all easily covered by Gyara who is of the bulky variety. Taunting Pokemon like Shuckle allow me to get 3-4 Dragon Dances and usually call it game because at that point Gyara has quite a bit of HP. Leftovers keeps Gyara alive in the Hail, and while I would love to move them to Abomasnow to make it even more bulky, Gyara absolutely needs it.

    The problem so far has been Pokemon with Fighting/Fire/Steel and Electric/Rock type moves as they cover my whole team really well and it requires a whole lot of thinking from me to win. I'm really enjoying the BT right now because of how much the AI trys to beat you, I've seen so many Magcargos and Magnezones over the current streak that it seems they don't want me to go much further.
  10. Adamant_Torterra

    Adamant_Torterra

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2007
    Messages:
    236
    OHKO moves aren't affected by evasion. Also, your entire team is rock weak, so you might want to replace Gyara with something else.
  11. Sandslash

    Sandslash

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2006
    Messages:
    300
    i have many teams for the bt but i don't know which one is the most effective
    fellow pokemoners help me!

    team 1: encore abuse
    Wobbuffet @ Leftovers/Lum Berry
    4 HP / 252 Def / 252 SDef
    Impish
    Counter
    Encore
    Mirror Coat
    Safeguard

    Gyarados @ Life Orb
    84 HP / 252 Atk / 172 Spd
    Adamant
    Dragon Dance
    Earthquake
    Ice Fang
    Waterfall

    Azelf @ Focus Sash
    4 HP / 252 Spd / 252 SAtk
    Timid
    Nasty Plot
    Psychic
    Flamethrower
    Thunderbolt/Grass Knot

    team 2: dbond spam
    Froslass @ Focus Sash
    4 HP / 252 Spd / 252 SAtk
    Ice Beam
    Thunderbolt
    Shadow Ball
    Destiny Bond

    Gengar @ Wide Lens/Lum Berry
    Timid/Hasty
    4 HP / 252 Spd / 252 SAtk
    Shadow Ball
    Focus Blast/Focus Punch
    Substitute
    Destiny Bond

    Heatran@Choice Specs/Life Orb(having specs on your last poke isn't the best idea ~_~)
    Flamethrower
    Dragon Pulse
    Earth Power
    Overheat or whatever

    Team 3: Uxie!
    Uxie @ Focus Sash
    Relaxed
    max HP and rest split between Def and SAtk
    Yawn
    Memento
    Psychic
    Stealth Rock or anything really

    Latios @ Lum Berry
    Timid
    4HP / 252 Spd / 252 SAtk
    Calm Mind
    Thunderbolt
    Dragon Pulse
    Recover

    Dragonite @ Life Orb
    Jolly
    max atk and speed
    Dragon Dance
    Outrage
    Earthquake
    Fire Punch/Fire Blast

    i sometimes use gyara in my uxie team and latios in my wobbuffet team

    here's a list of my other pokes that i can't find a place for them in any team =(

    rock polish baton pass modest lunatone
    choice band salamence
    swords dance marowak
    ninjask (i've been thinking of using this and marowak in my uxie team)
    relaxed steelix
    aromatherapy blissey (no counter :[)
    choice band aerodactyl
    houndoom
    hidden power fighting modest mismagius
    boah!
    modest rain dance ludicolo
    reversal blaziken
    hasty chlorophyll shiftry
    trick modest zam
    modest starmie

    thanks in advance!
  12. pokemaster bill

    pokemaster bill

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2008
    Messages:
    103
    Is there item clause in the link battle tower?

    Edit: What about Sleep clause? Could you give me a list of clauses?
  13. Sudo

    Sudo

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2008
    Messages:
    801
  14. garo

    garo

    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2008
    Messages:
    155
    great combination, im glad you merged my team with jumpman´s team, after all both teams follow the same principle: lock the opponent in a single move and set up. when i reached my 276 streak, i wanted to do some improvements in my team, i put reflect on rotom as jumpman suggested and later i asked myself if jumpman´s latios would do a better job than dragonite (i wasnt happy replacing my dragonite because the entire team was designed around him, but i will do any change to improve my team without adding weaknesses i think), and the only thing that stoped me to replace dragonite with latios was this:
    Rampardos with Mold Breaker
    i faced this guy sometimes and it looked like this:
    rotom used trick, rotom switched items with its target
    rampardos used earthquake, rotom fainted

    he wasnt a problem because dragonite´s flying type cant be nullified with mold breaker like levitate is, so i just want to warn you about this guy, if you face a rampardos you may want to do other move instead of trick right off the bat, you could start with reflect i think, thats the only problem i see to your team, so im glad to respond to any question you may have about the team and i can answer, i think that also would be helpful to hear jumpman´s opinion about this team.
  15. AhrenElessedil

    AhrenElessedil

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2008
    Messages:
    158
    Thank you garo, I think I'll reflect and then attack Rampardos with Latias, Dragon Pulse should be at least a 2HKO. And thank you also for the team, it's wonderful!

    EDIT: 133 and counting.
  16. Jumpman16

    Jumpman16 np: Michael Jackson - "Mon in the Mirror" (DW mix)
    is a Smogon IRC SOPis a Site Staff Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Battle Server Admin Alumnusis a Researcher Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis an Administrator Alumnus

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    Dec 19, 2004
    Messages:
    4,754
    well, for one, tricking pretty much anything into thunderwave is going to leave you paralyzed unless you stick around and wait for them to use the 20 TW PP and start struggling, because pokes like manectric and jolteon and even gallade will be faster than latias after getting the scarf, and will paralyze you on the switch and just paralyze you again before you can sub. thunderwave is pretty much the only reason i run rest and not roost/recover, a second being burn status via flare blitz and flamethrower and finally toxic since setting up latios is better than setting up lucario because of initial speed.

    but in addition to that i honestly dont know you would do about flare blitz pokes like blaziken and arcanine since reflect isn't permanent. here's how it would probably play out against flare blitz blaziken if your IVs are perfect:

    reflect/flare blitz, 80% rotom
    switch to latias/flare blitz, 82% latias
    switch back to rotom/brave bird, 70% rotom
    trickscarf/flare blitz, 50% rotom
    thunderwave/flare blitz, 30% rotom, reflect wears off
    reflect/flare blitz, 10% rotom
    thunderwave (this isn't a typo, you cant use CR because this messes with your Reflect's "time")/flare blitz, 20% damage, rotom's dead, go latias
    cm/flare blitz, 64% latias
    cm/flare blitz, 46% latias
    recover/flare blitz 78% latias, reflect fades

    now flare blitz is going to do 36% every turn meaning you can't sub...and this is if blaziken is not a beneficial attack nature which you shouldn't assume if you want to win (i lost to metagross like five weeks ago because its +atk MM did barey over 50% to my luke, which i rebred for 31/31 HP/Def IVs). if you're facing a "Battle Girl" there's a decent chance heatran will be the next poke if you get past blaziken or another flare blitz poke, and every heatran has something SE for latias, etc etc. in general you're not going to like flare blitz pokes

    Lati@s really loves leftovers with its speed and i honestly rely on Charm a lot on my Lopunny as it makes many physical threats a non-issue
  17. AhrenElessedil

    AhrenElessedil

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2008
    Messages:
    158
    About Flare Blitz, I have encountered Blazzy: I used Reflect, switch to Latias, DP 2 times and I killed him.
  18. sandman423

    sandman423

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2007
    Messages:
    11
    I love this Thread..I am on 37 Win Right now with Team Rockets Elite Team...I will try out yours Jumpman on my next run.

    I love this thread
  19. Sceptile is cool

    Sceptile is cool

    Joined:
    May 28, 2007
    Messages:
    12
    I was thinking of a team to use for the Single Room Battle Tower and this is what I came up with:

    Gyarados @ Leftovers
    Adamant Nature
    EVs: 52 HP, 252 Attack, 204 Speed
    -Dragon Dance
    -Waterfall
    -Earthquake
    -Taunt

    Dragon Dance lets it outspeed Alakazam, Dugtrio, and Sceptile. Taunt helps against Double Teamers, and other Stallers.

    Lucario @ Choice Scarf
    Modest Nature
    EVs: 4 HP, 252 Sp. Attack, 252 Speed
    Trait: Inner Focus
    -Aura Sphere
    -HP Ice
    -Dark Pulse
    -Psychic

    HP Ice gets rid of Dragons and Aura Sphere and Dark Pulse get good coverage. Psychic can OHKO Toxicroak and 2HKO Heracross. 252 Speed EVs gives it just enough Speed to outrun Electrode, the fastest Pokemon in the Battle Tower.

    Garchomp @ Yache Berry
    Jolly Nature
    EVs: 4 HP, 252 Attack, 252 Speed
    -Swords Dance
    -Dragon Claw
    -Earthquake
    -Fire Fang

    Standard Garchomp set, there isn't much to explain.

    I don't know too much about the Battle Tower, but Taunt and Aura Sphere will hopefully help a little.
  20. Mrobinson587

    Mrobinson587

    Joined:
    Apr 7, 2008
    Messages:
    309
    I have the number 3 spot for Multi now I guess.

    77 battles so far.

    Salamence @ Life Orb

    Draco Meteor
    Flamethrower
    Brick Break
    Crunch

    Metagross @ leftovers
    Meteor Mash
    Ice Punch
    Thunder Punch
    Rock Slide

    I'll get a pic up and EV's if i can calculate them later.
  21. bejlash

    bejlash

    Joined:
    May 22, 2007
    Messages:
    107
    Well... I just got up to 72 in the multi part of the battle tower.

    Lost to a togekiss after it haxed me to death.

    My team was:

    Starmie @ Life Orb
    - Surf
    - Thunderbolt
    - Ice Beam
    - HP Ground

    and

    Garchomp @ Choice Scarf
    - Outrage
    - Earthquake
    - Aerial Ace
    - Stone Edge
  22. Mrobinson587

    Mrobinson587

    Joined:
    Apr 7, 2008
    Messages:
    309
    I got to 91.

    What did me in is my fucking DS screen crack. It's fully blown meaning the screen opens freely. I set it beside me and I fell asleep as BT is my cure to insomnia. It falls down between the crack in my bed and the battery dies.

    So 91 and I will get a pic up within a week here.

    As far as luck goes, Metagross got a lot of unnecessary hax with paralyzing and freezing. I didn't run into much OHKO problems and I only had some small problems with quick claw.

    Salamence did most of the work with the amazing coverage that Mixmence has.If he could get two kills before needing to switch, he could die in peace.

    When suspect OHKO users came into play I made them top priority to kill. Usually I used Draco Meteor even if they were ice type as it got more kills.

    If something was weak to fighting and fire i used flamethrower most of the time.

    If I suspected status without being able to KO or if I felt threated by mulitple ice attacks i switched to metagross.

    Rock slide misses alot but the flinches can save your life. I find it superior to EQ as a BT doubles move

    I always avoided picking teammates that were likely to uses earthquake as random crit's on switching meta in sucks. Pick the Lati@s' if you can and pick offensive teams and not defensive.

    Basic stuff all of it really.
  23. wtansley

    wtansley

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2008
    Messages:
    55
    I've been using this list http://wcoceania.bravehost.com/Battle%20Tower%20Table.html to help during BT streaks lately, and very helpful it is. However, sometimes I'll found my pokemon outspeeding things that, according to the speed stats given in the list, they shouldn't. Does the link just state the maximum possible stats of each pokemon or something? This would be useful to know.
  24. shipship

    shipship

    Joined:
    May 17, 2008
    Messages:
    177
    The Battle Tower pokemon have random natures.

    For example, if you have a Timid Gengar with 350 speed (at level 100) you should expect to outspeed most Weaviles because most of them will not have a +speed nature (neutral speed Weavile maxes at 349).
  25. wtansley

    wtansley

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2008
    Messages:
    55
    Ah, okay. So let's say I come up against this Weavile:

    440 Weavile Brave Razor Claw Night Slash Metal Claw Slash Shadow Claw 255 255 0 0 0 0 177 189 85 65 105 130

    I guess I can't be 100% confident that my pokemon with 131 speed will go first? :/
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