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DP Battle Tower Records

Discussion in 'Smogon's Greatest Hits' started by Peterko, Sep 20, 2007.

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  1. Lee

    Lee @ Thick Club
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    Inspiring stuff as always, Jump. Mormoopid and I spent the last 2 hours theorymonning up BT teams and we were beginning to feel truly dedicated until you came along and reminded us what true dedication is with that post, heh. It's a feat in itself that you can just shrug off a loss at 201...my last streak ended over a month ago and I've been too dishearted to try again since.

    Anyway, the end result of our discussion was to give the Bellyzard team another shot which seems like the right thing to do since my streak only ended last time because of my own incompetence (I Fire Punched a Drifblim for the record).

    We decided to make one change to the team listed here- http://www.smogon.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1436547&postcount=590 - and that's to replace Metagross for Kingdra.

    Kingdra @ Leftovers
    Adamant Nature
    212 HP / 184 Atk / 114 Spe
    - Dragon Dance
    - Outrage
    - Waterfall
    - Substitute/Rest/Yawn/Not really sure, feel free to help :x

    I found on my last streak that Charizard sweeps with alarming frequency, but the best laid plans of Mice and men oft gan awry so we needed to choose a sweeper who could bail us out of any sticky situations that may crop up. We were asking for a lot, but we basically wanted a Pokemon who could come out against the majority of Pokemon, set up and have a good chance of sweeping a team. We soon realised how unrealistic that was, but Kingdra, with his relative bulk and lack of any alarming weaknesses seems like as good as it's gonna get. Hopefully this guy won't see any action...he'll only be called upon if Uxie and Charizard faint.

    I'm only really posting to ask if anybody has any ideas for that last moveslot (Kingdra has such a shit physical movepool) or any advice at all really as my team was pretty much overlooked when I originally posted it. That, and I just like putting all my thoughts down in words...

    My main concerns are obviously based on leads that can disrupt Uxie's set up plans. I usually play with the database open and act especially suspicious if I suspect that the opponent's lead may have a Chesto/Lum Berry so that hasn't really been a problem so far. I expect the following Pokemon to cause problems if they pop up as leads though:

    881 Snorlax Adamant Chesto Berry Return Rock Slide Curse Rest HP/Def

    Ugh, if this leads I'm in a lot of trouble. Snorlax will start Cursing straight away and by the time I get him to sleep (and stay asleep!) he'll probably have Cursed three or four times meaning that even Bellyzard won't be able to 2HKO. Probably my biggest concern.

    946 Latias Bold Leftovers Mist Ball Draco Meteor Calm Mind Safeguard HP/Def

    Safeguard blocks Yawn. :( I imagine I'd switch straight to Kingdra and force him to Draco Meteor, then switch back to Uxie and Memento. Assuming he doesn't CM he'll be at -4 SpA and Charizard should be able to set up. Sounds easy when I put it like that but I dread to think how things will pan out in reality.
  2. Shelcario

    Shelcario

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    Well let's analyze the final move slot options to the best of our abilities shall we? Rest restores all of your HP but requires you to take 2 turns of sleep which could possibly be a bad thing because the opponent such as the Snorlax you listed could be setting up more curses while you are catching some z's so you could possibly put a Chesto Berry on Kingdra if you choose Rest. Substitute is good if you want some status blocking but the downside is that you lose 25% health each turn and if the opponent is a heavy sweeper such as tyranitar or someone else as such then that could spell trouble for you but I guess that's why you have your Bellyzard for your team:) Yawn takes two turns to put the opponent to sleep and if your opponent has either a Lum Berry or the move Taunt then it's pretty much made useless so in the end it's really up to you and your teams' needs in what move to decide on for Kingdras' final move slot. But, since you said that Kingdra won't be seeing as much action in the battles unless your other two pokemon faint I don't really know if the 4th move slot really matters?
  3. McGrrr

    McGrrr Facetious
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    Why not use rain dance in the last spot? It still boosts waterfall. Sometimes, your speed after one dragon dance is not enough, but swift swim would save you in those situations.

    Any opportunity to plug double dance :toast:
  4. acinod

    acinod

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    Can Alakazam do well in the Battle Tower?

    It has a monstrous 135 Special Attack and 120 Speed.

    What should it's moveset be if I plan on using him>
  5. Jumpman16

    Jumpman16 np: Michael Jackson - "Mon in the Mirror" (DW mix)
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    as with the rmt forum posts like that are frowned upon in here because this is primarily a records thread, not one where you ask us what is good and basically to make a team for you regardless i will answer "no" anyway because

    1) starmie is better as a special sweeper not only because it is capable of taking even a max Attack Granbull or Ursaring Crunch with just 4HP EVs (it will survive 98.77% of the time with max IVs accounting for Granbull/Ursa Nature). Alakazam has less than a 70% chance to kill both of these pokemon because it needs Focus Blast to hit to OHKO, and this is less than 70% because a QC Return will kills Zam where it won't kill Starmie). This pretty much needs Zam would need a Sash to even begin being viable as a reliable special sweeper.

    2) lopunny, cresselia, latias, starmie and even something like metagross are better as Trick/Switcheroo users because they have the survivability to do something after the first turn

    (hint: your follow up shouldn't be "so what should i use instead?")
  6. Sandslash

    Sandslash

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    would frisk banette do well in the tower with trick?
    i'm trying to build a team around (with gyarados and weavile) it but i don't want to spend hours breeding and end up losing at battle #30 or something ._.
  7. Shelcario

    Shelcario

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    Read jumpmans' above post about what not to post.
  8. FastHippo

    FastHippo

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    My streak ended at 227. I should have taken a +1 Waterfall from a drowsy Dragonite. If it doesn't CH, I would have killed it, if I didn't miss because of Brightpowder. I'm pretty pissed, actually make that extremely pissed. This was my first uninterrupted Lapras run.

    I had a lot of success with CScarfed Lucario. Here are some reasons why I stopped using it.

    A scarfed revenge killer:
    can't switch moves
    has trouble sweeping
    can't use Substitute
    may not be able to outspeed DDers
    can be forced to switch much more often
  9. KwameTheGreat

    KwameTheGreat

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    Wat Da Eff. Tell me how my Breloom Hp DECREASED from Poison! Is it my game or...Hax? Idk. I was fighting a umm..Roserade. I spore'd it. Seed Bomb'd it..Wasn't paying attention..I know that it didn't do anything cept' Worry Seed me and I spore'd it again..Next thing I know..."Breloom is hurt from poison". And the Hp started decreasing in Toxic status..I was like wtf. Anyone else experience this??
  10. Shelcario

    Shelcario

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    Does your Breloom have the Poison Heal ability, if not then it would get poison damage.
  11. No_One411

    No_One411

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    Er, you said it Worry Seed'ed you. Doesn't that mean you no longer have Poison Heal? Last time I checked, Worry Seed changes opponents ability to Insomnia.
  12. Morm

    Morm

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    just posting to say that Lee and I are coming after you and your damn record, Jumpman. Lee and I have been working together on this sort of thing for 6 months or more. He comes up with the ideas, bounces them off of me and then magic happens.

    Also it looks like we've settled on substitute on that last slot for Kingdra after all, since Substitue helps against little ditties like quick claw crawdaunt.

    I'm sure Lee will be around to let you know how things pan out :D
  13. Lee

    Lee @ Thick Club
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    Heh, I think we should take it one step a time, Mormoopid. :$

    Loving the enthusiasm though.
  14. Jumpman16

    Jumpman16 np: Michael Jackson - "Mon in the Mirror" (DW mix)
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    Haha, cool! The record isn't mine though, unless we officially want to recognize number of teams/pokemon taken to 200+ wins as the real mark of BT awesomemess, lol. To be completely honest, I'm "sorry" i didn't give the Yawn/Memento idea the attention it deserved when you first posted it, Lee, and I'm sorry now, so I'll say that I genuinely think it's the quickest viable way to set up your checkmate pokemon. Sleep is generally lame when you use it (but not when the AI does) cause it never lasts, but Memento not ending the turn in DP is great for something like Charizard. I think Sub is the best way to go with Kingdra, it's as I said the best way of dealing with QC, BP and Sash all at once.
  15. KwameTheGreat

    KwameTheGreat

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    Nah I dont run the Sub set. I like 3 attacks. To take on Flyers/Fire/Ice I'm faster then.

    Drain Punch to hit SE against w/e and regain much needed Hp+Toxic Orb Hp gain. Good strategy, people should try it.
  16. KwameTheGreat

    KwameTheGreat

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    Lul, I remember Toxic Orbing it for a reason.

    Oh that was probably It. I just thought it prevented you from sleeping. Iight thanks.


    Question:

    If a Pokemon Destiny Bonds you and you have a Focus Sash will the Sash take effect even thought Destiny Bond isn't "technically" a attack?
  17. garo

    garo

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    ohko from destiny bond isnt prevented by focus sash as you said it is not an attack, please use the simple questions thread, this is a BT records thread.

    edit: cool my 100 post and is in my favorite thread lol.
  18. kd24

    kd24 yo daddy musta been a drug dealer? why, cuz you're dope
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    ugh game is frustrating. My Lucario / Latias / Garchomp team got up to 117 wins before I got lost to sloppy play on my part (2 misclicks in 1 match).

    To wear off the frustration im gonna try and use a sash gengar / scarfmence / life orb hera and see how well i do. wish me luck.
  19. Peterko

    Peterko Never give up!
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    something along the lines of a warstory

    Wednesday, October 7:
    - I soft reset a nice egg after 4 days (running method 2 weeks before), the pokémon which would be my "second spot" one in the majority of my theorymoned teams, team 1 is ready but I want to rebreed #3 because it´s lv.100 (from emerald) and I want to use my special DP BT EV set on it, although this should not prevent me from testing this team

    Thursday, October 8:
    - trained the baby and started the BT challenge (note: battles 1-49 were done by various other test-subjects)
    - I wrote down the # battle, trainer name, pokémon and score (also what the trainer said at first, but I was watching TV as well and missed a few so I stopped)...this will help me to analyze the "AI countering" and other stuff like weaks, although I know these beforehand of course, I´m a crazy theorymon-counter-king (not nidoking)
    - I didn´t use the 2 lists (trainer+moveset) in this run
    - I´m not posting my team for an obvious reason - I was nowhere near a record plus this is not a RMT topic

    50 Scientist Jarred - Crobat, Magmortar, Dragonite: 3-0
    51 Ruin Maniac Titus - Tyranitar, Relicanth, Shuckle: 3-0
    52 Rancher Kellen - Tauros, Raichu, Armaldo: 3-0
    53 Guitarist Marquez - Gardevoir, Mr.Mime, Mismagius: 3-0
    54 Cyclist Kristi - Infernape, Granbull, Regigigas: 2-0
    55 PKMN Ranger Denver - Latios (DD), Registeel (iron def), Regigigas: 3-0
    56 Parasol Lady Christa - Croconaw, Seviper, Magneton: 3-0
    ----------------------------------------------------------
    57 Black Belt Benny - Houndoom, Breloom, Magmortar: 1-0
    58 Beauty Jaclyn - Swalot, Clefable, Swellow: 3-0
    59 Scientist Jarred - Glaceon, Aerodactyl, Scizor: 2-0
    60 Sailor Cain - Gallade, Breloom, Blaziken: 2-0
    61 Psychic Clyde - Metagross (QC), Latias, Exeggutor: 3-0
    62 Dragon Tamer Alonso - Altaria, Rhydon, Kangaskhan: 3-0
    63 Parasol Lady Madelyn - Milotic, Jolteon, Roserade: 3-0
    ----------------------------------------------------------
    64 Cyclist Kristi - Staraptor, Infernape, Gallade: 1-0
    65 Hiker Andreas - Nidoqueen, Hippowdon, Rhydon: 3-0
    66 Collector Edmund - Empoleon, Nidoking, Staraptor: 3-0
    67 Bird Keeper Allie - Gliscor, Yanmega, Articuno: 3-0
    68 Socialite Mayra - Suicune (CM+rest), Regice (focus bl.), Raikou: 3-0
    69 Picnicker Serena - Rampardos, Lickilicky, Honchkrow: 3-0
    70 Policeman Tavon - Probopass, Skarmory, Forretress: 3-0
    ----------------------------------------------------------
    71 Scientist Jarred - Rampardos, Milotic, Exeggutor: 3-0
    72 Worker Hans - Bastiodon, Blaziken, Hariyama: 3-0
    73 Cameraman Barrett - Jynx, Cresselia, Electivire: 3-0
    74 PI Auston - Rapidash, Glalie, Dugtrio: 3-0
    75 Ace Trainer Cortney - Dewgong (OHKO): just before the finishing move hits gong...

    ....my DS suddenly restarts itself, what? no reaction from my side whatsoever

    fortunately this happened at a low streak number or there would´ve been some swearing and punching the nearest thing (not DS) or something...pillows are a nice option to get rid of your BT anger/frustration lol...jump sorry but you´re crazy for playing-while-driving, I mean if I lost a high streak in traffic there would be victims :)

    well, my DS has a soul now, it turns itself on randomly and restarts during play...the same thing happened last weekend or monday (?) while I was soft-resetting an egg

    I´ve been to Vienna (around 160km away) yesterday (friday) because of a legal case and now that my DS plans his own life with wife and kids I´ve decided to get a second DS lite when I came back in the evening (on my way back I was in the most broken traffic jam in my life...I don´t want to use swear-words lol)

    anyway, now that I am able to build my other theorymon teams, beware!

    I´m not gonna say something like "I´ll be #1 on the list by the end of the year!"

    but because of this

    I´m saying LET THE FUN BEGIN, LADIES! :D
  20. Morm

    Morm

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    It seems I've stirred up some competition! Well, Peterko, I am very glad you stepped it up a notch and got that second DS lite. The more people to compete with, the more fun it is!

    Good luck Peterko, I look forward to some outstanding records by you.
  21. Jumpman16

    Jumpman16 np: Michael Jackson - "Mon in the Mirror" (DW mix)
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    whoa peterko that blows (wife and kids, lol), i'm "glad" it happened at a relatively low streak. that sucks though and for whatever reason makes me think again of "winning percentage" and how a loss like that wouldn't have made you lose literally everything but battle points (which i'm sure you need a lot of by now).

    yeah just get another DS...i'm glad they're not too expensive now and i'm sure you can afford it and also it's not totally bad because you mentioned that you want to "double-fist" your DS pleasure now with 2v2 battles...though can you or someone else explain how that helps with the 2v2 tower record and not the link one cause i still dont get it

    anyway, notable streaks I have lost while actually driving: ~176, 170, 164, ~158, 134, 112. (i was parked when i lost at 322.) the 176 and 133 were both to BB, scarfed toxicroak getting two CHes in a row on Latios, first through sub, second does ~48%, and the second time it happened was the ~176 streak and i was at ~40% and with a fresh sub and literally like "ok, well, i should probably rest, because, you know, it will probably ch or do absolute max damage (needs to to break my latios's sub and also have a 31 atk IV), and of course it broke sub and then CHed me at 46% lol.

    felt gross but i was almost home and just started another stream with starmie team. the floatzel battle was the 164 one and that had to be the worst because it was in the morning and i was running late to a doctors appt already and if I haven't already detailed it here it was against my Lopunny team and a brightpowder floatzel and the battle literally started: Switcheroo, miss/Rain Dance; Waterfall, does 55%/Switcheroo, miss; switch to Latios/Waterfall, CH, does 77%. ive posted a lot of stuff in this thread so sorry if ive already detailed it but ive also tried not to post hax stories so i dont think ive posted this here (have on IRC) and "could have won" if i had calm minded instead of subbed with luke during floatzel's last rainy waterfall I knew couldn't completely screw me over unless it CHed because of Steadfast but i picked Sub "by accident" cause i guess my thought process isn't totally always 100% on when im driving and i have no one to blame but myself.

    i kind of "jokingly" felt like jerking the wheel because seriously lol it did almost every possible hax but also flinch or CH on turn 2 in addition to BP but "whatever", i dont care about this battle anymore and about "hax" in general until I am over 200 wins, and I am "happy" to say that none of my post-200 losses have been because of hax unless you count how jogger ryne's meta raises attack three of six times then sent out literally one of the two of his 68 pokemon that have a good chance of beating +3 unsubbed Scizor and untouched Latios as i detailed a few days ago (this is "hax" but whatever)

    ANYWAY

    they work fine. i do still miss charm on my Switcheroo/Trick poke, but Flash gives me a direct advantage over Charm when facing Shadow Ball Ice Beam, and Bug Buzz that are hard to beat with just the 75% "accuracy" a poke has when only paralyzed. lucario hated facing froslass and glaceon ice beam and yanmega's gay ass in general, and even with Crunches and X-Scissors, a TW and a few Flashes is effectively the same thing as Charming. Three charms and a TW give the opponent an effective 24.75% "power" as does six Flashes and a TW.

    Obviously I am not able to get six Flashes everytime against a physical move that's SE on Cress and I would like to be able to get more than 1-2 Flashes against something like Skuntank's or Heatran's Crunch...but I think the main thing is that Scizor only needs as little as four turns to set up completely where Lucario seriously needed more than the seven of Sub+6 CMs because of its speed. I would need to have its sub break twice or purposely CM up naked, which usually worked if i justed Charmed a Night Slash or X-Scissor user once because any more and luke takes like 6-8%, but this screws it against the 5 PP Stone Edge and is indirectly why I lost at 269 in May as I have detailed (wasn't able to get into salac range against SE Aggron). that same Stone Edge and Cresselia's ridiculous bulk enable me to actually re-Trick pokes into another move that Scizor can set up on much easier in four turns. So it's really a combination of how awesome Scizor is and how flash helps against Special moves where Charm did not.

    I'd like to say my ideal lead would have Trick/Swithcheroo, Thunderwave, Charm and Flash, and I am aware that Togekiss and Latias can do this, but both have a conflict of interest with Latios, with Togekiss drawing Ice and Electric attacks all the time while not being able to take two of them in order to TW then Charm or Flash accordingly, and Latias obviously drawing the exact kinds of direct attacks that Latios hates so I would have to rethink my non Scizor/Lucario sweeper. Kingdra is a candidate I guess but that doesn't really help with Ice, Electric and Rock attacks, and the pokemon needs Rest and Sub because of Thunderwave and general hax and I wouldn't want another Steel type so...uh...lol:

    Garchomp@Lum Berry: SD/Outrage/Sub/EQ

    kind of standard as shit but covers electric and rock (finally rock) and doesn't care so much about Static/Flame Body because EQ is not a contact move...this would be risky because of its speed and also water isnt covered anymore nor is fighting so fighting Sailors would positively blow most of the time if I use Togekiss but I can use Latias as well who would not draw fighting and water. I'm thinking out loud here but yeah, I already theorymonned Trick/TW/Charm/Flash Togekiss and Latios, both have pros and cons and Garchomp has an obvious con with any lead poke it has to Outrage, I guess, but it being immune to Thunderwave is enourmous and Scizor/Lucario being immune to Toxic is similarly awesome and I can say that in my, like, what, 4,000 or so battles, I dont think any of the 11 post-Battle 49 pokemon that have WoW have used it turn one and I could stall that out to get either Garchomp or Scizor/Luke in safe so that's really a non-issue...the only other issue is Sleep and I can actually switch Scizor into that pretty risk-free because it only needs four turns to set up...so yeah.

    I don't think a Togekiss or Latias/Garchomp/Scizor or Lucario team is better than either my LLL tea or CLS teams but "it may be"...I sure as fuck am not breeding or softresetting to find this out though, lol
  22. Shelcario

    Shelcario

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    Hey Jumpman, I was wondering if you spend a lot of time breeding your pokes such as, nature, IVs, and stuff like that.
  23. Jumpman16

    Jumpman16 np: Michael Jackson - "Mon in the Mirror" (DW mix)
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    I do if I can, which doesn't apply to Latios because Gamefreak is stupid and didn't apply to Cress and Scizor because I didn't/don't have Platinum. But for Starmie, Tyranitar, Garchomp, Bronzong, Linoone, Lopunny, Lucario, and Gyarados, I bred. Most of the time with pokes I caught myself, except for with Garchomp which I think I used Roy's ridiculous Rhyhorn for stats purposes to start things out for. I have bred three different Lucario, two different Starmie, three different Tyranitar after I realized CB Tar isn't that good in the tower, after spending three weeks on that, and not being pleased with my F Tyranitar: 25 - 26 / 24 - 25 / 31 / 18 - 19 / 30 / 31 one, and I don't even use Linoone and Bronzong anymore (Gyarados had value to me outside of the BT) so yeah. I've spent a lot of time breeding but that makes me feel all that much better about my record with my LLL team.
  24. Morm

    Morm

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    I think I'm a bastard because of this, but I just drove for an hour and made my girlfriend play Battle tower for me, doing exactly as I instructed as I drove. I then made her drive on the way back so that I could play battle tower. I didn't talk the whole time.
  25. Jumpman16

    Jumpman16 np: Michael Jackson - "Mon in the Mirror" (DW mix)
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    Was in a similar situation two weekends ago when I learned that I was going to be driving up to Detroit (about a five-hour drive) with the girl I'm currently interested in...but I didn't play cause we're not at "that level" yet. That was one of the first things I thought about before going up though, how many battles I could get in in those ~10 hours, and I did bring my DS, but I only played when she was in the shower, lol
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