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DP Battle Tower Records

Discussion in 'Smogon's Greatest Hits' started by Peterko, Sep 20, 2007.

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  1. FastHippo

    FastHippo

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    I only used Lucario for my first run, I don't switch. I say Lucario/Lapras because 311 is my longest streak. I then had a 91-0 run with Lapras, switched to Gyarados and lost. I used Gyardos and had two HORRIBLE runs(really bad luck and the wrong moves on Gyarados). My first full Lapras run was 227. My second Lapras run is currently 147(I think we have similar playtime issues).

    Yes, Hippo has the new moves you mentioned. Fortunately, I can Yawn Clear Bodies, 4/5 are weak to Garchomp's EQ, Regice hasn't been a problem, either.

    I wasn't going to write up my Jolteon/Garchomp/Gyarados team unless I was able achieve a top 30 streak. But, since you asked.

    Jolteon @Focus Sash
    149/67/79/123/135/200
    Yawn
    Substitute
    Flash
    Charm

    Garchomp @Lum Berry
    Substitue
    Swords Dance
    Earthquake
    Outrage

    Gyarados @Life Orb/Leftovers
    Dragon Dance
    Waterfall
    Earthquake
    Taunt

    The basics, use the fastest Yawn in the BT to set up Garchomp.

    Much of the time, Jolteon cripples the opposing lead. About half of the time, it faints after it's done enough. I'm then usually able to get in three Sword Dances and sweep. So far, from battle 50, Garchomp has KO'd all pokemon, except one.

    The cool thing is, if Jolteon faints on turn 2, Garchomp comes in for free and sweeps. If Jolteon makes it to turn 3, it's over. Garchomp gets to eventually gets to face an opponent that can't do much to it.

    The biggest problem is, some of the strategies that Hippo renders useless, because of SS, have to be dealt with.
  2. frisWEE

    frisWEE

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2008
    Messages:
    13
    no but seriously, you must have like +10 luck cos my yawn's (speed boosted uxie) never last 3+ turns when the foe is asleep so i can't set up my Nape
  3. FastHippo

    FastHippo

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    I don't need three+ turns of sleep. I have said before that Garchomp usually only needs one turn to sweep. Also, that's what Charm and Flash are for. That was the part where I mentioned that Jolteon cripples the opposing lead. I don't consider Yawn by itself to be crippling.

    Garchomp gets three SDs, not because the opponent stays asleep, but because they have been Charmed down as low as 2/8 damage and/or Flashed down to 3/9 accuracy. When they wake up, they usually can't break my sub or they miss.

    Next time you want to know something, it would probably be better to ask a question, rather than tell someone how lucky they must be.
  4. lati0s

    lati0s

    Joined:
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    56 and counting in multi tower with this team

    latios@life orb
    timid 6hp 252 spec. atk. 252 speed
    -dragon pulse
    -psychic
    -thunder bolt
    -grass knot

    garchomp@yache berry
    jolly 6 hp 252 attack 252 speed
    -swords dance
    -outrage
    -earthquake
    -fire fang
  5. Groombridge

    Groombridge

    Joined:
    Dec 19, 2007
    Messages:
    127
    Multi: 59 wins with the Salagross team.

    Well, that was fun.

    I won't bore you with the woeful tale of hax that led to my defeat, but it was fairly woeful and it involved critical hits, full paralysis and all the usual fun. If both of your guys die, then the AI plays against itself with no human intervention. At least it's kind of funny watching the AI hax itself to death...

    More observations for Multi:

    - Be wary of taking pokes with multiple abilities. For instance, don't take a partner with a Togekiss because it might have Hustle, which screws up a special sweeper, and the physical one is useless anyway.

    Tanks = useless

    - Curselax. It may be an immovable object in singles, but in doubles it ain't so hot when it's getting gangbanged. Plus it generally does nothing but Curse all day and then die.

    - Porygon2. Stop using Defence Curl and hit something!

    - Be wary of partner pokes with Earthquake or Surf. Stop hitting me!

    - Look out for 'novelty' movesets. Physical Gengar and physical Alakazam? No thanks. Physical Latios is quite good, though.

    - Go with sweepers, and force your partner to do something useful!

    I think the key to to Multi in particular is patience (well, that's the key to the BT and Pokemon in general, but still). A crappy partner is a liability, and since there's no way to 'soft reset' the Battle Salon, you pretty much have to wait until tomorrow to get new partners. It's tempting to compromise and go with Explosion Gengar or whatever (it might be good, right?), but its crapness could cost you a streak.
  6. lati0s

    lati0s

    Joined:
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    if anyone cares I've found that the partners in the multi tower will change if you go with a different team (same pokemon in a different order is still the same team) unfortunately when you go back to your original team the partners go back to what they were before.

    i haven't tryed same pokemon with different OT's so that could be interesting

    EDIT: my streak ended at 60 battles because i picked a bad partner deuteronopia is right patience in partner taking is key
  7. KwameTheGreat

    KwameTheGreat

    Joined:
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    43
    Wow 94 battle. Lost on the 94th battle. I forgot what happened, but Starmie was left with Drifloon. I Psychic, he Natural Gifts. I psychic, he Destiny Bonds. At that time I wished I had kept Recover. I thought qabout it for a min. Stupid as fuck that you lose on a draw. The person who fainted first should lose. I just sigh and Psychic again, we die, I lose. Da buck. I was mad, but calm. All I wanted was to reach 100. Prayed to God, and it always werked..Till now. Then ithought about it. For the last move, I should've Ice Beamed. Maybe he wuda survived and I wudnt have died. Since it has no STAB and Psychic was a 3HKO. I gave up on BT. But I'm bored in Economics so I'm at it again =P Weavile Jolly @ Focus Sash 252 atk/252 spee -SD -Night Slash -Ice Punch -Brick Break Starmie Timid @ Wise Glasses(So I could hit Pokemon better then Expert Belt if the hit wasn't SE) 40 hp/252 sp.atk/216 Speed -Surf -T-Bolt -Ice Beam -Psychic Metagross Adamant 152 Hp/252 atk/108+ sPe -Agility -Meteor Mash -ThunderPunch -EQ Meta was first. Agility on whatever and MM to death. After Agility would outspeed about everything. If it's Fire, and I didn't Agility, would switch to Starmie for 1-2HKO. Any Ghost Or Psychic Would see Weavile. Hardly used Weavile, normally Metagross would kill the whole team, or Starmie Would. Lul I found out Weavile was weak to Rock/Bug on my streak. Lati's were too easy. Meta would absorb they hits and MM them to death. OHKO'S were easy too. Never had prob wit em.
  8. Everstone

    Everstone Now 100% reliable
    is a Contributor Alumnus

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    That doesn't make any sense, since Ice Beam is super effective on Drifloon/blim.
    Here's my new attempt at a team.

    Metagross @Choice Scarf
    Adamant 252HP 252Speed 4SpDef
    -Trick
    -Ice Punch
    -Flash
    -Protect

    Suicune @Leftovers
    Bold 252HP 252Def 4SpDef
    -Surf
    -Rest
    -Sleep Talk
    -Calm Mind

    Garchomp@Focus Sash
    Jolly 252Atk 252Speed 4 HP
    -Swords Dance
    -Earthquake
    -Dragon Claw
    -Outrage

    Simple concept. Metagross is one of the sturdiest users of Trick around. Always Trick the opponent first. The opponent will then either be stuck on a damaging move, or non damaging move. If it's the former and not an electric attack, go to Suicune and start CMing to the max, taking the opportunity to Rest if needed. By then Pressure will have eaten up the opponent's PP and they will start Struggling. Once you get 6 Calm Minds in, start Surfing things to death, since almost nothing can touch you, barring the rare Leaf Bladers, and they usually get OHKO'd by Surf if you set up successfully (And usually Grass attacks won't be used on Meta anyways, so there's no need to worry about those messing up the setup). If they used an electric attack, switch to Garchomp, set up and sweep the entire team. Same thing applies for a non damaging move that isn't Will-o-wisp - go to Garchomp. If Will-o-wisp is used, go to Suicune and Rest it off later. From the outside it seems that Water Absorb users may stop Suicune, but they usually lose due to Pressure stalling. It always wins stall wars because none of the Pokemon there have any PP Ups applied. And if Water Absorbers are foolish enough to deplete all their PP of their attacks, I just switch to Chomp and set up on them since they're harmless now.

    Focus Sash because Chomp is the frailer of the two stat uppers, and we don't want crits or Ice Attacks messing it up, something that Yache Berry alone can't fix. Dragon Claw and Outrage on the same set because getting locked on Outrage sucks early on, especially after setting up successfully on the first Poke and Earthquake can't hit it. Use Outrage later on only.

    Protect on Metagross to waste PP (handy for OHKO users, and the OHKO user gets only 2-3 uses depending on whether it hits or not), Flash is there in case it gets the chance to do it. Ice Punch because it can OHKO certain things like Dugtrio, Dragons, etc. Only thing that OHKOs it aside from OHKOs are fire attacks, which are easily soaked up by Suicune.

    The nice thing about the Gross lead is the type of attacks it attracts from most leads. Usually gets hit with Water (go to Suicune) Fire (Suicune) Ground (Suicune) or Electric (Garchomp), all are absorbed by the other two quite well.

    Double Teamers are not a problem since they usually get to set it up on their first Poke who will eventually die due to being Tricked.

    Also, even if you think the opponent is CB'd, Trick anyways, as you're lowering their attack and making setting up easier. If they're Scarfed, that's another story, but won't be a huge loss if you Trick and they're holding a Scarf, as they don't hit as hard and at least you know they have one so you can probably set up on them regardless.

    EDIT: Finally reached 168 wins. Still going.
    I had a close call that involved some stupidity on my part. A lead Manetric went first and managed to paralyze Gross and I wasn't looking at the screen so I thought I Tricked the Scarf like I usually do. Switched to Garchomp. Surprise, Flamethrower! I go to Suicune to take it, thinking it was still Scarfed, and get hit with a Tbolt next turn. Finally I realized it wasn't Scarfed so I switched to Garchomp who takes the Tbolt and OHKOs it (Should've done that in the beginning). Out comes Lopunny, I Swords Dance, thinking I can take whatever it dishes out, and it KOs Chomp with Ice Beam instead. I then go to Gross, who Tricks it, lives a Shadow Ball then switched to Suicune thinking it could take the Shadow Balls and live to Rest another day, but again surprise, Grass Knot KOs it. Forgot about Klutz >_> I then go to Meta who's still paralyzed and around half health, and just try to kill the thing up straight. It dies after two Ice Punches, leaving Meta at around 30%. I then hope that Meta can handle the last enemy, who turns out to be Ambipom. It does the usual Fake Out and I live. Now I'm hoping it has moves that won't hit neutral on Metagross. It then starts Protecting every single turn. I then figure out it's the one with Fake Out and Last Resort as its only attacks, just praying it doesn't use Agility to make Last Resort usable. Turns out it kept on Protecting, which finally failed, and Ice Punch scores a crit for a OHKO.

    Moral of the story: If you want to look away from the screen, at least try to figure out what happened first (In my case, I should've checked the PP of Trick to see if the Trick actually worked) and know what possibilities an opponent may have (Trying to Trick Lopunny ._.)
  9. Bozo

    Bozo

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    thats a pretty sweet team everstone :D

    i've been having fun with doubles for a while now. just trying out some fun pokes, like breloom and charizard. they both need a bit of luck, so it doesnt usually go great, but good for kicks :) here's a nice haxy end to my streak:

    i lead with breloom (standard set) and charizard (belly drum set). they lead with gliscor and garchomp. ah crap, and its only the 40something'th battle too.

    1. i figure they will both be faster than breloom so i switch it out and send in gyarados. and use sub on charizard, hoping they aim both atacks at breloom. however, they both aimed at zard - dragon claw and stone edge. so zard goes down.

    2. i send out gengar (with shadow ball, thunderbolt, hp ice, trick, choice specs). hp ice takes garchomp down to a focus sash (damn) and he crunches gengar, and doesnt quite KO (lol). then gyarados DD's and aty this point i know that my breloom WAS faster than his gliscor (damn), because my breloom is faster than my gyarados. so his gliscor kills gengar with stone edge.

    3. breloom comes back in, and it should be easy now. gyarados finishes off chomp with waterfall, and breloom spores gliscor.

    4. in comes snorlax. ok easy now! just sleep lax, and both enemies will be sleeping. but no!! apparently gliscor has a quick claw (i had the animations on) AND he wakes up on the first opportunity, OHKO'ing breloom with aerial ace. thankfully i had selected waterfall and not DD on gyarados, and it manages the OHKO on gliscor. snorlax curses, damn....

    5. in comes houndoom, and i stupidly choose to EQ, figuring i'm boosted, and any bonus damage to lax will come in handy. but he has a stupid berry and barely survives it, and lax curses again, after houndoom deals 30%ish with dark pulse.

    6. so i have to EQ again, this time finishing off houndoom, and getting lax to 60%ish. but he uses return and thats the end.


    well, just the usual hax, but i "liked" the way everything combined to work against me in virtually the only way it could lol..... so many things could have gone differently (eg if i'd used hidden power on the gliscor, or even just left breloom in on turn 1). lol.....

    anyway, i'm thinking of giving doubles a serious go, using a choice scarfed smeargle with spore. almost nothing seems to be faster than charizard, so i figure maybe leading with smeargle and zard could be nice maybe? anyone tried that before? also, what is the fastest pokemon in the batgtle tower? im assuming an electrode or ninjask, but does anyone know the exact speed i should aim to beat with smeargle?
  10. lati0s

    lati0s

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    im pretty sure the fastest thing in the tower is electrode, 212 speed, because none of the ninjask's run speed EV's

    im not completely sure though
  11. Jumpman16

    Jumpman16 np: Michael Jackson - "Mon in the Mirror" (DW mix)
    is a Smogon IRC SOPis a Site Staff Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Battle Server Admin Alumnusis a Researcher Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis an Administrator Alumnus

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    Haha, I'm actually somewhat rooting both for and against you since I somewhat consider myself the "expert on trick teams". To that end I must admit that there are very few holes to your team...when Carl linked me to it my first thought was "lol good luck with water absorbers" but after reading your explanation you are almost completely right about it being able to stall them out with no trouble especially with Sash Chomp as a safety net so kudos for a well-built team...and that's where I'll stop because there are a few issues that I'm just not going to tell you because "good luck" lol. I'm tempted to help out but I'll refrain...I've probably already posted a lot of stuff that will help you, if you haven't already called upon it.
  12. Bozo

    Bozo

    Joined:
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    just a thought about these records. i know people with R4's can back up their saved files. doesnt this mean in theory that after every 7 wins, you could just backup your file, and go back to it if you lose in the next 7 battles? not saying i doubt any of the records posted here so far, but just saying..... isnt it possible for someone to come along and claim a bigger record in that way?
  13. EeveeTrainer

    EeveeTrainer

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2005
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    759
    It's also possible with an R4 to just edit the number of wins in the streak. So, whatever.
  14. Everstone

    Everstone Now 100% reliable
    is a Contributor Alumnus

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    Heh heh, thanks Jump and Bozo.

    I don't want to be a copycat and use somebody else's well-thought out team for these things, as it feels rather unoriginal and in a sense defeats the purpose (to me at least), as the first page would be rather bland if it were filled with just the same Cresselia Latios Scizor, Starmie Garchomp Tyranitar or Lopunny Latios Lucario team wouldn't you agree? Although this team of mine operates around the same principle as many of the teams here, it's still one I can call my own.

    Well, the streak finally ended at 211. I was aware of some of the flaws this team has, mainly nothing to protect against crits, and that's what did me in, as a stupid Heracross Crits Suicune with Megahorn, and I Outraged, fearing a Focus Sash when I should've Swords Danced with Garchomp, failing to KO it and activating a Salac Berry. Naturally it's faster and finishes off Chomp. Usually I'll play conservatively and Rest expecting a crit to happen any time. Oh well, it was fun while it lasted. I just wanted to see how far I could go with this before running into one of those dang game-breaking crits. I'll try again later, and I'll be sure to look up Heracross's movesets next time, as I figured that one might've been a problem Poke, hitting neutral on both stat uppers and all. Turns out none of them even carry a Sash to begin with, so I can say it was my lack of knowledge of the Tower Pokemon that did me in this time.

    There's also the aforementioned Grass types (Leaf Blade and Wood Hammer can take out Suicune if I let them get too many in) and the possibility of the first-turn Trick failing due to a hax item. So far I haven't had much bad luck yet. I did get a OHKO Dewgong as a lead but the first Sheer Cold missed Meta, I Protect to waste another PP, switch to Suicune to eat up another 2 (missed) and switch back to Meta to waste the last one (didn't care if it died, I just needed one or hopefully both of my set-uppers alive)
    Majority of the leads have been either Fire, Electric, or knew EQ as I thought. I sometimes get the odd Grass lead but I usually get a couple of Flashes in before I let Meta die to give Suicune a free switch in.

    I do think Metagross might be more useful with an attack that's not Ice Punch, but at this stage I'm reluctant to delete it since it's a tutor move I'm incapable of relearning for the time being due to lack of Platinum and no access to wifi where I'm at. It has proven useful against some of the Grass types however, so I'm fine with it for now.

    I think I'm gonna swap Sleep Talk for Substitute on Suicune for this run and see if it's better overall, as I find most things doing <25% to it and Sleep Talk can be rather unreliable at times, plus I could use the status/crit protection.

    Well, I'm off to do another round with this team. I'm just happy I broke 200 wins this time as opposed to the meager 120-ish wins I usually got.
  15. KwameTheGreat

    KwameTheGreat

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    Drif..Is. Weak. To. ICE BEAM!? I thought itwas str8 ghost type. Omg. I could've won. I..could've won. Where's the gun to shoot yourself when you need it? Btw I got SWEEPED 3-0 by a Jolteon that was like max speed, thing was quick as hell. Meta got paralyzed and lost to T-Bolt, Starmie; T-Bolt, thought Weavile was faster so I throw him in and SD. Jolteon Yawns. Ice Punch; Miss, I lose.
  16. Bozo

    Bozo

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    no prob :) oh and congrats on breaking 200 - i have yet to do that..... but with a team as good as yours it would have to be hax that ends it, although usually (in my own experience) there is some degree of laziness that combines to bring it down. like you, i'm usually very conservative and usually rest, just in case of those 2 consecutive critical hits - one of my recent streaks was ended in exactly that way - suicune was taken down by two consecutive crits, when it could have just rested and did the usual PP depleting thing.....

    by the way everstone, i just did something i never expected i would do. i EV trained one of your smeargles!! now to complete its moveset:

    smeargle - jolly - own tempo - choice scarf
    252 Spd / 92 HP / 116 Def / 50 Sp Def
    dark void
    ???
    ???
    ???

    its my new lead in doubles. ive got no idea what to put in the last three slots, since it will basically just be out there to put things to sleep, but im thinking destiny bond would be good, so it can maybe come back in later. and there is always trick, in case i can give it to a curselax or something....... helping hand? also i was disapointed to learn that smeargle's speed tops out at 139 at level 50 - with choice scarf it makes it to 208, not quite enough to outspeed that electrode. but then again it would have to fluke a positive nature, right?
  17. Everstone

    Everstone Now 100% reliable
    is a Contributor Alumnus

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    Electrode was never a problem for me. Garchomp outsped it every time for Aerodactyl is the fastest thing in BT imo, though I could be wrong. The Trick Metagross (which is not +speed mind you) I use usually outspeeds everything barring Quick Claw hax, even the likes of Aerodactyl. There's just so many things you can do with Smeargle I'm not sure what to use. I'll figure something out one day when I give Doubles a shot another time. I'm having to revamp my team because being completely dependent on one Trick Roomer is a bad thing so I found out.

    On a side note, I just checked your thread and loled at your blacklist. I don't really care though. Do what you want. I find myself breeding less and less these days and am mostly gonna spend my Pokemon time in the battle tower actually enjoying every minute of it.
  18. frisWEE

    frisWEE

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    Oct 10, 2008
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    ok update on a current streak. Looking for a snow based team with a final poke that can stand hits and set up to destroy any threats which uxie does to an extent bar skarm/bronzong/metagross/other steel pokes which are annoying to kill but struggle has killed them first and i boosted by def to stand an explosion if used.

    If abomasnow has a chance to 1HKO the lead i do it and sacrifice and frosslass kills the rest. unless beaten by a priority move or a lack of attention which is seen with uxie's boosted stab extrasensory. kills them due to CM. hoping to make the ladder after months of breeding a perfect speed frosslass and finding an uxie with max Def and Hp IVs which just happens to be bold.

    Streak 112

    Abomasnow @ Lum Berry - Quiet
    252 HP/ 84 Def / 106 sp atk / 68 atk

    Protect
    Wood hammer
    Blizzard
    Swagger

    Frosslass @ Focus Sash - Timid
    252 Spd / 252 Sp Atk / 6 HP

    Destiny Bond
    Blizzard
    Thunderbolt
    Shadow ball

    Uxie @ Leftovers - Bold
    252 Hp/168 Def/90 Sp Def

    Calm Mind
    Yawn
    Extrasensory (havnt taught psychic but the flinch has saved me twice)
    U-turn ( to counter dark)
  19. Bozo

    Bozo

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    lol yeah we already talked about the blacklist thing :) that was one of my more rash decisions im ashamed to admit!

    but yeah, this doubles team has got me to 56 so far (not much of course, but way better than any of my fun/joke sweeper teams). i recorded battles 43-49 just for the fun of it, and ill youtube them as soon as i can figure out how to make videos go 4x speed. all smeargle has ever really done is use dark void (like i said the other moves were always gonna be filler) but in one of the matches i had the opportunity to use helping hand, so i did it just to show off.

    also i did see an electrode, but it mustnt have been +spd, since scarf smeargle outsped it. i find they usually use magnet rise on turn 1 anyway.....



    @frisWEE - good luck with your team - looks fun.....
  20. KwameTheGreat

    KwameTheGreat

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    I'm going to try Doubles again soon. My last streak ended on 36th floor kuz like a dumbazz I use a No Guard machamp, no scarf or anything. Bulk up one. Well I forgot about OHKO users. And that their faster then Champ. OHKO's both of em due to No Guard. Down 2-4, and yea, I lost =\
  21. PurpleNurple42

    PurpleNurple42

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    Sep 25, 2008
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    I'm thinking of using Uxie as my lead in the singles battle tower but can't decide on a set to use out of these 2:

    Uxie@ choice scarf
    nature? ev's? (haven't decided yet)
    trick
    t-wave
    flash/ reflect
    memento

    or

    Uxie@ leftovers
    nature? ev's?
    yawn
    flash
    protect?
    memento

    I'm going to pair it up with Jump's Scizor since I tried it with another team and he is insane with +6 bullet punch. The second set is somewhat like Fasthippo's lead but when I tried Hippowdon it seemed like his sandstream killed or nearly killed the opponent most of the time when I was setting up. Any thoughts on which might be a more effective lead?
  22. FastHippo

    FastHippo

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    I've run into the same "problem". Here are three "solutions" that I use, 1) if I kill them with sand, that means I can always have a sub up and/or be at full health, this means that I can Yawn the next pokemon, or Flash at no risk. If you could start every battle having a sub, full health, Focus Sash and only two pokemon to beat, wouldn't you like to? I do. 2) Depending on the opponent, I will heal to only 50-75%, with a sub up. Then I flash as much as possible while they are asleep. This way, they have to hit me twice in a row to pose a threat. I make sure that I will at least be able to get a Yawn off, even if they do. If they faint my Hippo, it gets worse, Garchomp comes in for free, and they're going to sleep. 3) When something can't really hurt Garchomp, I'll switch in if they are at least at 3/7 accuracy, have just fallen asleep, and have at least enough turns left for me to set up.

    Which team did you use with Hippo? What item did your Hippo use? What sort of problems did you have?
  23. PurpleNurple42

    PurpleNurple42

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    With the Hippo team I used:

    Hippowdon@ focus sash
    Jolly, 252 speed, HP, 6 def
    yawn
    sand attack
    slack off
    ice fang (i was worried about Duggy)

    Garchomp@ lum berry-- Fasthippo's chomp, works great.

    Scizor@ leftovers-- Jump's, works great.

    i lost at battle 80 because I switched to another team I wanted to try (stupid).
    But I didn't have any problems with it, other than Sandstream.
  24. FastHippo

    FastHippo

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    From my own experience, I would strongly suggest Substitute.

    If you are going to use an attack, I would go with EQ. It does more to Dugtrio, anyway. Only half of them have Arena Trap. They don't come up often enough to worry about. I've only battled one since I stopped using any attacks. Basically, you drain it of accuracy, useful attacks and then, let it faint you. Garchomp will then have a field day.

    I tried Fire Fang, because of Abomasnow, and to damage Grass types to allow Garchomp to use EQ on them. I was really shocked when the second Abomasnow I used it on, barely survived. One battle, I missed 3/7, my opponent managed to hit my subs with 4/5 of its OHKO move, it pissed me off. Needless to say, I stopped using Fire Fang.

    When I used EQ, I never regretted that I had it. I just feel that Substitute and Sand Attack are better for my team than Stealth Rock and EQ.

    I don't think Jolly outspeeds (108 vs 99) enough pokemon that matter, versus the extra defense of Careful. If you find that it is, I certainly would like to hear about it.
  25. PurpleNurple42

    PurpleNurple42

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2008
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    I don't think Jolly outspeeds (108 vs 99) enough pokemon that matter, versus the extra defense of Careful. If you find that it is, I certainly would like to hear about it.[/QUOTE]

    I just wanted max speed because the natures and iv's are random in the tower and you might find yourself outspeeding something you normally would not, such as a poke with 107, but you are probably right that more defense is better in the long run. Anyways, I am going to try both Uxie sets I listed above and see which one works out better, If i don't like them then I'll go back to Hippo and try using sub or EQ with it.
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