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DP Battle Tower Records

Discussion in 'Smogon's Greatest Hits' started by Peterko, Sep 20, 2007.

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  1. Hazmat

    Hazmat

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    There is a lot of truth to this.

    I enjoy playing the battle tower, but a few days ago I lost at ~50 because I used almost ALL of my PP on all three of my guys trying to hit a DTArticuno :/

    1st turn switch while he DTs (I assumed he was going to icebeam my ice-weak)

    2nd turn discharge brings him down to 50% he DTs again

    miss miss miss
    miss miss MISS miss miss MISS confused (water pulse hit me) hit myself in confusion MISS miss miss
    miss miss miss miss

    now I'm out two guys and just my swampert is left, I kill articuno but the next switch in is abomasnow -- sweet.
    woodhammer gg

    no amount of IVs could have saved me from that.
  2. Peterko

    Peterko Never give up!
    is a Researcher Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

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    are you sure? what if the gardevoir was +sp. def nature?

    IIRC 135 is neutral nature = 72-85 damage -> 144-170 damage over two turns, gardy has 143 HP

    but against 148 sp. def = 66-78 damage -> 132-156 damage over two turns...but here the specs one wouldn´t KO latios baring a CH hmm

    draco meteor hasn´t let me down once in this run (it missed only like 1-2 times where it didn´t matter) so I´d definitely go for DM


    EDIT: also added "colors" for first, second and third place (gold/silver/bronze) in the list...does it look OK?
    yes and "tradeback" team is displayed as underlined italics record number, example: (203)
  3. Shelcario

    Shelcario

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    Sweet, just checked the updated list and looks like I'm not on the list that I was previously on, I guess I'd better start theorymoning a new Battle Tower team.
  4. Griffin

    Griffin

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    That really really sucks Peterko =X You did an amazing job! Congratulations.


    ---

    Now then, my question hasn't been answered, so...

  5. Jumpman16

    Jumpman16 np: Michael Jackson - "Mon in the Mirror" (DW mix)
    is a Smogon IRC SOPis a Site Staff Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Battle Server Admin Alumnusis a Researcher Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis an Administrator Alumnus

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  6. BeachBoy

    BeachBoy

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    Hey, good idea! But I think they're a bit too bright and TREs just doesn't seem bronze to me. Instead of the color default, how about...

    Jumpman16 (462*)
    • #D4AF37 - Gold
    Peterko (459)
    • #708090 - Silver (/ slate gray)
    Team Rocket Elite (330)
    • #CD7F32 - Bronze
    compared to yours...
    Jumpman16 (462*)
    Peterko (459)
    Team Rocket Elite (330)

    Wrap color tags around the code and viola, or just copy & paste. XD But you don't have to, just a suggestion. d(' 'd) Yes, I am a color freak.

    And that's absolutely jaw dropping Jump, wow, keep it up. In other news, my DS finally just... died, today. ): It sucks to wake up from a nap to find it unable to function properly, it just finally gave up after a lonnnggg time. I just hope it didn't kill Diamond too, but I'll find that out whenever I go buy a new one. =/ At least we're near Christmas, but yeah, no climb of the record list until then.
  7. Carl

    Carl or Varl
    is a Smogon IRC AOp Alumnusis a Super Moderator Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnusis a Past SPL Winner

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    i like those colors.. i'd vote for those

    peterko that's quite an amazing run nice job!

    and jump too but you know this already
  8. Peterko

    Peterko Never give up!
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    so the curse of the second place didn´t work eh?

    congrats jump

    thanks Carl

    yeah I´ll go with those colors instead, thanks BeachBoy
  9. Archer

    Archer

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    Not good. Was it an original DS? Because the battery will fail to maintain any charge after a while... Shame it didn't hold out until the DSi.

    Anyway, those are some awesome records. What do you guys find is the best method of battling? Stall or Offense? I usually try for a "Sleep and Sweep" strategy; using Umbreon to Sleep the enemy and pass a Bulky Sub to one of the sweepers to set up behind.
  10. twash

    twash
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    First post looks great Peterko! :] And neat record Jump..."go for 500+"! (Congrats)

    Anyway, last week of school now, then I have 2+ weeks off - hopefully it will be less of a workload. I have tested my new BT team, and am gearing up for a run, it seems pretty good so far.
  11. Griffin

    Griffin

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    The idea is nice, but sleep is a very unreliable status:

  12. FastHippo

    FastHippo

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    Really? Umbreon learns Yawn. Yawn plus a Garchomp sweep is the strategy that I have used quite successfully.

    Hippowdon(Yawn)/Garchomp/Lucario 311-1

    This was my only run with this team.

    Hippowdon/Garchomp/Lapras 227-1, 217-0

    That is my only loss with that team. Obviously, the other run is active.

    Jolteon(Yawn)/Garchomp/Gyarados 119-0

    Another active run on a different DS. So far, this combo is so effective that Gyarados is very rarely used. Garchomp has KOd 197/210 opponents.

    I plan on using Umbreon as my next Yawn lead.

    My strategy is well documented in this thread.
  13. Griffin

    Griffin

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    The problem isn't getting your opponent to sleep; Yawn or Spore will take care of that. The problem is that by the time you have the next Pokémon out to set up they may already have waken up (based afaik purely on chance) making "setting up while they sleep" nearly impossible.

    I'm not saying that spore of yawn is a waste of moveslot in the BT, just that you can't rely at all on a Pokémon staying asleep for a certain amount of turns.
  14. FastHippo

    FastHippo

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    Please give a more detailed explanation of your strategy. What team and movesets do you use? What's your longest streak? I'm not a fan of Baton Pass/Substitute instead of some other Yawn strategies. But I haven't used Umbreon, yet. I'm definitely interested in hearing what you've discovered.
  15. FastHippo

    FastHippo

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    You consider 874-2 unreliable? That's the record that I just showed you. You come into a thread where you need someone to tell you what will happen to a L1 pokemon on Turn 1. Then you proceed to "explain" why one of the most successful strategies in the BT won't work. If you bother to read my posts on the subject, you'll know why Yawn plus the right three moves, on the right pokemon, is a devastating strategy.
  16. kd24

    kd24 yo daddy musta been a drug dealer? why, cuz you're dope
    is a Pokemon Researcheris a Site Staff Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Smogon IRC SOp Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus

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    although i have absolutely no interest in yawn leads / trick leads, I think umbreon may have potential as a pretty good battle tower pokemon, although i think jolteon does it better. Yawn / Charm / Payback / Flash Umbreon @ chople berry could probably set up yawncharmflash pretty well for something like garchomp + latios, although i still stand by the fact that hippowdon or jolteon would do it better (hippos sand is so helpful for chomp in bt)
  17. Jumpman16

    Jumpman16 np: Michael Jackson - "Mon in the Mirror" (DW mix)
    is a Smogon IRC SOPis a Site Staff Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Battle Server Admin Alumnusis a Researcher Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis an Administrator Alumnus

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    i agree 100% with fasthippo and was actually a little "afraid" when i saw the jolteon lead team because by now i "know" what works in the BT even just seeing it on paper

    and since its my favorite pokemon i was also really psyched when i realized that yawn/charm/flash espeon could definitely work in the BT really, really well, with trick since that's the only thing that sets it apart from jolteon or anything else (uxie cant charm and latias can't yawn), probably still wouldn't use it though
  18. FastHippo

    FastHippo

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    I'd love to see you use Espeon. I didn't realize Espeon could use Trick. That makes me think that it is a Platinum move. I don't have access to Platinum. Since both of my losses were due to "trainer error", rather than hax, I often wonder what my teams could due in the hands of one of "The Big Three". While my stategy has evolved with experience, I can't help but think that any of you three could add to my repertoire.

    I am most impressed by the way you guys EV your pokemon to take on specific threats, before your run even starts. I EV my pokemon in general terms. I know that my Jolteon has to take special hits better than physical, but I don't have specific numbers in mind.
  19. Archer

    Archer

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    Okay, I am not set on Umbreon's set yet, although I currently run:

    Umbreon @ Lum Berry ~ I know you won't like this, BeachBoy said you "sold Sash for him." I prefer this, as status will shut me down and it is less predictable. You can predict a OHKO (Nearly nothing does. Adamant 252 Heracross' CC doesn't, for the record.)
    Ability: Synchronize ~ Great for Returning Sleep or other Status with Lum Berry. It can bite me back if they get Poisoned or something, but in many cases, I can stall them out with Wish and Sub.
    Careful Nature (+SDef, -SAtk) ~ Because I have Faint Attack on a clone to hit DTers.
    EVs: 252 HP, 252 Def, 4 SDef ~ I want some sort of a mixed wall, although I'm considering running a more of a Spec Wall and swapping Garchomp out for DDMence (W/ Outrage). Giving SDef the 1.1x boost and the Def the 63 EV boost is more economical than the reverse.

    - Yawn
    The central move, which I couldn't run without. It gives perfect accuracy, meaning I can easily sleep DTers.
    - Substitute
    I set this up after the first turn of Yawning (If I can). If I'm faster, then I dodgeany status for a second turn, although that's not too important now. The Sub will usually remain intact as the attacks are either underpowered or they hit Umbreon before the Sub is up.
    - Baton Pass
    By now the Opponent is asleep and the Substitute is up. If I safely can, I'll pass this to whichever team make can handle the opponent better if it wakes up. It gives my other pokemon status immunity and an extra turn on the field (as well as a perfectly safe switch, should something go wrong.)
    - Wish/Flash/Charm/Captivate
    This slot is a "filler" of sorts. Wish seems useful, although it gets little or no use in practice. Flash/Charm/Captivate could be used to cripple the opponent, although Flash is unreliable (moreso than sleep, Griffin) and Captivate can only hit particular pokemon, which could be a problem later on, when legendaries are commonplace. Charm seems the most effective, and given Umbreon's superior SDef, I might go down that road.

    There you go, mate there's your small slab of words, with a side of fries.
    Obviously the strategy isn't perfect yet, but it can work quite well, when the opponent is asleep and I have a Sub, a Focus Sash and a Nasty Plot on NPApe. "Sleep and Cripple" strategies are seeming more and more reliable, although the SubPass isn't generally hard to pull off. As for my streak... Eheh... This is a new team and the last ended early, due to the DS freezing up. (Tapping on the edge at school. Obviously too firmly.) Sleep is obviously not 100% reliable, but it's incredibly effective; You only have to take precaution.

    Ignore my previous statement on Espeon.
  20. BeachBoy

    BeachBoy

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    Haha, yup, Archer & I have really been swirling around Umbreon lately, since we're like the main BT addicts on another forum. >_> Ours are vastly different, though. I started thinking of Umbreon when I started thinking of Vaporeon. Anyway, since you're interested in Umbreon, Fast, I'll show you my research on this version, basically developed from your strategy over the past week. Lots of calcs done that you may like to read. This is paired with Garchomp & Bulky Gyarados, basically the latest team glued together and hopeful to build a streak with, but thanks to my DS, I won't be able to get it under way for a while. ): So maybe you'd like to try it, 'cause I won't be able to.
    [​IMG]
    • Corona :: Umbreon
      • a disk of light surrounding the sun or moon; this is a result of the diffraction of light by small water droplets.
    • Item: Focus Sash
    • Ability: Synchronize
    • Nature: Calm (+ Special Defense, - Attack)
    • EVs: 252 HP | 252 Special Defense | 6 Defense
    • Move Set ;
      • Yawn: The staple of the strategy, a two-turn never-miss sleep status move. Very important! Reason being because you can't usually afford to miss in the incredibly common hax Battle Tower. Once rendered useless by the sleep, Umbreon can cripple their attack with Charm, or dash flash in their face to lower their accuracy. By the time they wake up, they can barely touch Corona or my sweepers, and then I'm free to release the flood gates for Garchomp or Gyarados to sweep.
      • Wish / Substitute / Something else: Providing even more team support and recovery to Umbreon. Can prolong the toying around with the opponent when I go Umbreon 'n' Gyarados while switching forever, haha. Substitute to avoid Sand-Attackers that will continuously hit me with it after the sub is up. I dunno about this slot, eh.
      • Charm: Uxie provided defense buffers in the forms of screens; Umbreon, on the other hand, cripples the opponent 'n' gives my sweepers more opportunity to set up. Lowering the opponent's attack by two stages is just as cold as a slap to the face. Charm also basically picks up the slack on the defense stat. (And the reason why I EVd it the way I did) Umbreon's HP at Lv. 50 is damn good, at 202, so it can take a hit on the physical spectrum and Charm them into submission. Really nothing can touch me at 2/8 attack. And Clear Bodies? Well, Garchomp rampages through 4 of them with Earthquake, and Regice really isn't a "problem."
      • Flash: Umbreon can't exactly cripple like Charm on the special side, but really, it doesn't have to with 202 HP & 200 Special Defense. Flash is also key in making inaccurate moves like Focus Blast miss even more. Depleting the chances of hitting me down to 3/9 accuracy is plenty to properly set up sweepers.
    Description: Talk about an incredible sponge, with 202 HP & 200 Special Defense coupled with an intimidating Gyarados to tickle off the weaknesses, the two are perfectly fit for each other. Also being the one Pocket Monster that isn't Psychic that can have the ability, Synchronize. Synchronize is awesome because it's a basic "screw you" to opposing Pocket Monsters that try to paralyze or burn Umbreon, so I just pass it back. :D And if it's before Yawn, I'm okay with that, because I'll still sweep a crippled opponent paralyzed. Sure, Yawn would be better than burn, but in the situation of facing a status-giving Lum Berry Pocket Monster, this ability can flick the berry off for Yawn to activate the next turn, which is great; however that's very circumstantial.

    One of the problem Pocket Monsters for this team is Starmie, specifically Starmie 3 which has Ice Beam 'n' Thunderbolt. Well, my previous team would struggle, but Umbreon? 5HKO. That's the best Starmie 3 can muster with STAB Surf, yup, you heard right, 5HKO. (Regice's Ice Beam also takes a 5HKO to put Corona to sleep - 20.79% - 24.26%) More than enough time to cripple the hell out of it. Even Max Special Attack Lucario (which needs a 16% chance for the + nature) only has a 71% chance to 2HKO, 47.52% - 56.44%, and I'd say that's impressive. If I give Umbreon leftovers, it'll be a 16% chance, wow. And every other Lucario does seriously LOL damage to Umbreon. By that I mean, Luke 3 only does 25.25% - 30.20% with Stone Edge. (best attack in it's moveset) and that's just begging for Garchomp to sweep. And if it's Charmed? Well, 13% damage as an average, and 28% for a crit is quite poor. And Lucario 2 has less than a 50% chance to 2HKO with Force Palm, and even then, if it paralyzes me, I pass that status to it. Another Garchomp ready-to-sweep moment. :D Max Attack Metagross' Meteor Mash only has a 7% chance (43.56% - 51.98%) to 2HKO me, outside of crit or attack increase, and even then, Garchomp says hi. =D If it's Metagross 3, Hammer Arm averages 63% damage, 2HKO, but I get off Yawn for Jet Stream.

    Machamp 4's Dynamic Punch (has a choice scarf, along with a 50% chance of having the wrong nature) does murderous damage, but I can Yawn thanks to Focus Sash. And even then, if it doesn't have the proper ability, I can have fun setting up. Plus, Gyarados can laugh at it later. All the other Machamp are outsped and completely shut down by Charm, not even funny really. None carry Close Combat, either. (4 has Dynamic, 3 has Brick Break, 2 has... Rock Smash, ahaha, and 1 has Revenge) Heracross 4 is another murder damage "problem" but Gyarados can buffer it with Intimidate. (Megahorn, Revenge, EQ) Max Atk Megahorn to BulkyGara 20.53% - 24.21%, neutral nature does 18.95% - 22.11% to Gyarados.

    Heracross 3 is a problem though, because it has Stone Edge. The gameplan vs. that is Yawn, survive with Sash, die, it sleeps, set up and sweep. Which is perfectly fine with me. And basically that's how I play other Fighters that cause problems, Yawn with a Sash-save, die to sleep, then sweep. Pretty darn easy. Weavile's Brick Break only does 38.61% - 45.54%.

    How about Lapras 4? Which has a Rain Dance Thunder to use 'n' Dragon Pulse? Well, Hydro Pump can't even 2HKO Umbreon in Rain, and without Rain... well, 4HKO isn't saying much. What about Latios / Latias? I got a feeling people might ask this, seeing as it's one of the rare dragon-types that can outspeed me. Well, Max Special Attack Latios' Draco Meteor (which, again, needs a 16% for a plus nature) does 42.08% on average, with the drop doing around 21%. So, I'd definitely Yawn, because one has a White Herb, but still, hahaha. And using that up while also getting it asleep means... that's right! SWEEP! 8D; As for Latias, neutral nature (68%) Draco Meteor doesn't even 3HKO, lawl. And Max Latias 3 only musters 22.77% - 27.23% with Dragon Pulse. :) And as for Bug-type weakness, well, the sweepers can handle that, also bashing Scizor 'n' friends.

    Here's another stat for ya, Max Pory-Z 4 Tri-Attack does 23.76% - 28. Want an even funnier special attack calc? Specs Max Gardevoir 4 Thunderbolt does 25.74% - 30.69%. Not even a 3HKO. Not impressed yet? Neutral nature (68%) Gengar 3's Focus Blast only does 41.58% - 49.50%, not even a 2HKO. And even Max Alakazam 4 only has a 66% chance to 2HKO with Focus Blast. Neutral nature Typhlosion 4 (White Herb - Eruption) only does 34.16% - 40.59%. So in short, Umbreon is a fantastic special sponge, and Gyarados can pick up on the physical end.

    Along with Garchomp (standard BT) and Bulky Gyarados.
  21. FastHippo

    FastHippo

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    BeachBoy, I just want to say that I really like what you've done so far with Umbreon. This is in line with what I had planned. I also would probably EV the SDef, which is what I did with my Jolteon.

    I'm looking forward to seeing how it turns out. I'm not sure I'll get to Umbreon. I still have two active runs, and a lot of ideas. I still have another move that I would like to develop a strategy around. I had some initial success earlier, but I prefer my Yawn teams.

    There are a few names that I associate with this thread, yours is definitely one of them. Keep up the good work.

    Also, OHKO moves can not have their accuracy reduced.
  22. BeachBoy

    BeachBoy

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    Oh, really? Did not know that, mm'kay, good to know then.

    Thanks, I'm glad you approve and like it. And I am too, but since I don't have any way to play at the moment, I'm going to keep going calc crazy.

    Also, it's great to hear that, thank you, glad to be one of the few.
  23. crobatchop

    crobatchop

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    I am planning on using defensive-combo teams, such as GyaraZone and SalamGross/Zong (I don't have Jirachi) in BT.

    If I am to have DD on the dragon, should the dragon be bulky or sweepy?

    For the metal poke, what kind of metal should it be? (Walling, Sweeping, Statusing, Annoying, Phaze/Hazing, etc.)

    What is the optimal pokemon to go with the combo?

    And Which one should be a lead?
  24. FastHippo

    FastHippo

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    Wow, I went to your website. One thing I understand, people are gonna do what they're gonna do. Being under the impression that you only posted here, I was glad to help you. After seeing what you posted I am certain that we very unlikely to see eye to eye on this issue.

    You seem to be the first person to really take an interest in my stategy. Too bad you decided to pass it off as 100 percent your own. It's not 100 percent mine either, but I have been very successful with it.

    On more than one occasion, I have helped you, directly and indirectly. Yet, you repay me by passing along some of my information as your own.

    All you had to say was something like, "Thanks to FastHippo, he's been using this strategy for a while. He gave me a few pointers and I added a few of my own."

    The funny thing is, I want people to use my teams. I'd just want to be given the credit that I deserve. I don't even doubt that you might put some big numbers up, one day. I just can't imagine TRE, Jumpman, or Peterko ever doing what you've done. Jumpman as great as he is, has given credit to some of the people he theorymon's with.

    Anyway, I'm done with this. As long as they let you stay, I can't stop you from taking some of my stuff to your site and giving me absolutely no credit.
  25. FastHippo

    FastHippo

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    And you, I see a lot of your posts involve you asking for help with your ever changing "team". But you come here to pass yourself off as an expert? At least BeachBoy got it right. This is where you get the help. Then, you take it back to your site.
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