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DP Cresselia .

Discussion in 'Locked / Outdated Analyses' started by Havak, Jun 26, 2008.

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  1. Havak

    Havak I'm the Best. You're a Towel.
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    [SET]
    name: Psycho Shift
    move 1: Psycho Shift
    move 2: Rest
    move 3: Sleep Talk
    move 4: Ice Beam / Psychic / Charge Beam
    item: Flame Orb
    nature: Bold
    evs: 252 HP / 78 Def / 108 SpD / 72 Spe

    <p>This set makes use of the somewhat underestimated move, Psycho Shift. With the Flame Orb attatched, you'll have the ability to cripple common counters such as Tyranitar and Metagross via the burn status. Cresselia's defensive capabilites can be hindered slightly without Leftovers, but with Rest and Sleep Talk in the moveset, you don't need to worry too much. The EVs give Cresselia almost equal defenses, allowing her to take powerful attacks from either side of the attacking spectrum, while the Speed EVs allow you to burn faster foes such as Tyranitar, Metagross and Gyarados with healthy Speed investments. Since two of those often pack the move Taunt, aiming for upwards of 224 Speed would be recommended.</p>

    <p>The final move slot simply depends on which Pokémon your team as a whole would have more trouble dealing with. If Garchomp, Salamence & Dragonite are your main worries, then Ice Beam is your best option. If Infernape worries you, then Psychic is a good alternative, especially since you're unable to burn Infernape. Psychic is also nice for predicting Heracross switch ins, as burning a Guts Heracross wouldn't really help you at all. If you're scared of Taunting Gyarados and don't want to invest EVs in Speed, Charge Beam might be the best choice. The Special Attack raise is always nice, and a welcome asset to Cresselia's sub-par Special Attack.</p>

    <p>Heatran is probably the best counter to this set, as activating Flash Fire helps it a lot, and with its good HP and defenses, it can shrug off weak Charge Beams as well as resisted Ice Beams and Psychics. Other Flash Fire Pokémon can cause problems, Houndoom, Arcanine & Ninetales to name a few. Guts Heracross being burned means it can seriously hurt Cresselia even more, as long as it avoids switching in on Psychic repeatedly. If Cresselia doesn't pack Psychic, Heracross and Infernape are safe switch ins. Guts Machamp is another somewhat bulky Fighting-type that can do some major damage with Payback. Most other Pokémon with the Guts ability and fairly decent HP and defenses can deal with Psycho Shift Cresselia, such as Ursaring. As well as Pokémon that resist Cresselia's attacking moves or have decent HP and Special Defense stats that don't mind being burned, Suicune is a good example of this.</p>

    Does anyone else feel we should add this set? I think it's just about worthy of a full set in its own right, though I can see the number of flaws it posesses after testing it out, but it is effective quite often. If no one thinks this set is good enough to be listed, I at least feel as though Psycho Shift with Flame Orb should be mentioned in Other Options. Although, I honestly haven't tried this moveset without Rest Talk, using perhaps Moonlight and two attacking moves, or Thunder Wave to hinder Heatran and Infernape.

    What's everyones view on this?
  2. JabbaTheGriffin

    JabbaTheGriffin Stormblessed
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    I don't think Psycho Shift deserves its own set. Other Options is really the place for it. It's too gimmicky and Heatran is way too popular.

    Also I think the set would be better with leftovers to be quite honest. Make it a point to switch into status effects and then Psycho Shift whatever it happens to be onto the switch in (or right back at the pokemon who statused you in the first place). And with that route you're actually able to wall things since you're not taking burn damage + potential sandstorm damage.
  3. Caelum

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    I'm going to agree here with Jabba. It's certainly a usable set but I question whether or not it's really useful enough to be a part of the analysis page. I certainly believe it should be mentioned in Other Options though. Maybe other people with experience with this set could testify? Also the idea of using Psycho Shift to burn something on Cresselia is a bit risky since Cresselia already is a target for the Heatran and Heracross switch in, both common Pokemon.

    Also, I again agree with Jabba about Leftovers. Sure Flame Orb is an option but with Hail/Sandstream+SR+Flame Orb Damage+Actual Damage it may be a little difficult to keep Cresselia alive, especially since you'll be required to use Rest rather frequently and if Sleep Clause is activated this potentially allows your opponent to set up.
  4. kd24

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    Im going to agree with jabba that it should be placed in Other Options and doesnt need its own set. Its very rare to see this ever used and even then it is too gimmicky.
  5. Phuquoph

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    It does work, but not well enough to have a set devoted to it.

    I'll leave this open so you can write a paragraph about Burn Orb/Psycho Shift to go in Other Options.
  6. kd24

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    I took a crack at writing it for extra options but Im sure someone will have something better written then me but heres mine anyway.
  7. Jibaku

    Jibaku Not taking FS requests atm.
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    I sort of disagree with that statement. When Cresselia's Burn Orb activates, it signals the opponent to NOT bring in their Tars and stuff. While it seemingly makes Cress untouchable for a second, this will mean the opponent can bring in something else, like Celebi or Starmie, to take the Burn and laugh. Cress will be constantly pressured with Seed/Surf and Rest or switch a lot due to Burn + (Sandstorm), and that's a lot of pressure on a supposed wall.

    IMO the set is a bit too "meh" to warrant its own analysis. It's better, like Phuq and Jabba said, for it to go into the other options.
  8. darkie

    darkie mfw i see alison brie
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    fixed a few typos in KD24's other options
  9. Hans

    Hans

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    Hey. Just nitpicking the little grammar errors. :P


    The bolded part doesn't really need to be in there. The sentence is alright without it and it sounds better without it, IMO.

    Something needs to be done here, but i'm not quite sure what it is. Perhaps changing the "with healthy Speed investments" part to "that also have healthy Speed investments" would make things more clear. You also need a comma after Metagross.

    Spell out "and". Also add a comma after Salamence.

    Hyphen between "switch" and "ins" I think?

    This is not correct. The second part of the sentence needs a subject. I suggest "The Special Attack raise is always nice, and it is a welcome asset to Cresselia's sub-par Special Attack." I'm also not sure if asset is the right word to use there either...

    Spell out "and". Comma after Arcanine.

    Hyphen? Not sure about this again.

    I wouldn't say "another" here; I would hardly classify Infernape or Heracross as being bulky.

    The "such as Ursaring" part sounds awkward. Try to reword the last bit somehow.
  10. Peanut-Lover

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    Question regarding a clause, and that will lead into my reccomendations of mentioning - if you sleep talk a sleep move, will sleep clause be cancelled?

    If you sleep-talk psychoshift, that could mean a 100% chance of sleeping, and then cressy wakes up. Thus, it becomes much more viable for status inducing set. At the very least, it can be mentioned in other options.

    Also, a toxic-orb could work, but this time with stall-breaking. If I recall correctly, I saw in an article that Poison reduces defense - imagine doing that to something bulky without a rest/refresh/natural cure (can't remember off hand), or setting up for a bulky sweeper to be killed.

    I personally don't believe that Moonlight + Psycho shift can work - #1, you can't shift sleep, which is a nice perk. #2, you'll be sustaining heavy dmage from the status, and iirc, after you shift the status to another pokemon, it comes right back to you.
  11. Garchomp of the Funk

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    This type of set only works if it has the element of surprise on its side, but the Burn Orb makes it glaringly obvious that you shouldn't switch in Tyranitar or Weavile against the burned Cresselia. This set works better:

    Cresselia @ Leftovers
    Bold/Calm; 252 HP, balanced Defenses
    Rest
    Sleep Talk
    Psycho Shift
    Ice Beam/Charge Beam/Psychic/HP Fighting

    The 1/3 Sleep-shifting chance can be very effective, and since I believe that Sleep Clause doesn't apply to Psycho Shift activated by Sleep Talk, you can potentially cripple more than 1 opponent. The 1/3 activation chance does hurt, though.

    But even this set only belongs in the "Other Options" section of the Cresselia analysis, at best. It can never become a mainstream set because it relies on luck for Psycho Shift to activate, it only has one attack move, so it can be set up on by something that resists the move, and it is only effective if your opponent doesn't see the Psycho Shifted sleep coming.
  12. AlphaSpade

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    Actually, Psycho Shifting sleep does activate Sleep Clause.
  13. Peanut-Lover

    Peanut-Lover

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    But if the opponent has been put to sleep by spore/yawn/hypnosis/etc, STalk Psycho Shift can violate the sleep clause legally. That is, until soemone says otherwise.
  14. Caelum

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    Even though I don't think this set should be mentioned if it were to be mentioned I think that the possible violation of Sleep Clause is worth a mention in the set-description. Of course, on shoddy it's prevented already anyway.
  15. cim

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    Psycho Shift Cresselia is sadly a waste of Cresselia's talents. As cool as it might be to have a faux Will-o-wisp, it's a largely ineffective strategy and certainly one that doesn't need a move from Other Options to standard.

    First of all, there's residual damage. 12% each turn that you're burnt, so that means you have to use Rest and Sleep Talk to stay alive for very long. Either way you're losing critical defensive potential, though Rest and Sleep Talk helps, kind of. The second problem though is that in order to mimic Will-o-wisp, you have to burn 3 moveslots AND your Leftovers recovery. Sure, you can pass Sleep possibly (though this DOES break sleep clause, contrary to what I claimed a few months ago the only things that don't are self-triggered sleeps via Rest), but you're burning 12% of your health each turn instead of getting back 6%.

    This wouldn't be so bad on, say, an annoyer Pokémon with okay defenses, but defenses are all Cresselia has going for it. So in essence you're ruining the one thing that makes Cresselia shine without even surprise value to make up for it as there's a very clear "Cresselia was burnt!" message to give everyone a GIANT heads-up that you'll be burning shit.

    Sorry, this gets the Chris is me Seal of Disapproval. It turns "best Garchomp counter ever that also deals with Gyarados or Infernape" into "really horrible Pokémon that spends 3/4s of its time faking Will-o-wisp and maybe attacking once in awhile". It's pure gimmick, and it should stay in Other Options.
  16. jrrrrrrr

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    I'm agreeing with Jabba, Phuquoph and chris is me here. Psycho Shift is certainly usable in the physically offensive oriented metagame (lots of teams cant even switch into burns when they know theyre coming), but Other Options is the best place for it.

    Using Cresselia like this just seems like a waste of moveslots and defensive potential, akin to using Flame Orb on Milotic.
  17. Aldaron

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    this post is for jrrrrrrr's and Aldaron's purposes...

    wow I wholeheartedly disagree with...OK I don't.

    delete, OP stuff mentioned in other options on site
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