DP Crobat

[Aldaron]

Posting this because I don't like the current Nasty Plot analysis. It can also get "decent coverage," as the analysis says, with just two attacks, and thereby save room for the ever useful Roost. I also ran different EVs.

http://www.smogon.com/dp/pokemon/crobat

[SET]
Name: Plot Roost Bat
Move 1: Nasty Plot
Move 2: Roost
Move 3: Air Slash
Move 4: Hidden Power Fighting
Item: Leftovers / Life Orb
EVs: 252 HP / 16 Def / 24 SpD / 216 Spe
Nature: Timid

[SET COMMENTS]
<p>With Air Slash + Hidden Power Fighting, Crobat is able to hit every Pokemon, besides Rotom and Zapdos, for at least neutral damage. Nasty Plot increases Crobat's admittedly dismal Special Attack. Roost allows Crobat to switch repeatedly into Stealth Rock and heal off all unnecessary damage.</p>

<p>At 385 Speed, Crobat is outspeeding all Pokemon that reach 383, like Weavile. Outspeeding Weavile is important because Weavile's Ice Shard will never OHKO, while Crobat's Nasty Plotted Hidden Power Fighting will. At 374 HP / 206 Def / 196 SpD, Crobat is bulkier than the standard Starmie, and it can uses its 50% recovery move to remove two common weaknesses, Electric and Ice (though, in the process, adding a Ground weakness). Crobat's typing is also very useful in allowing Crobat to switch into battle more efficiently.</p>

 

[Justinawe]

[SET COMMENTS]
<p>With Air Slash + Hidden Power Fighting, Crobat is able to hit every Pokemon, besides Rotom and Zapdos, for at least neutral damage. Nasty Plot increases Crobat's admittedly dismal Special Attack. Roost allows Crobat to switch repeatedly into a metagame cluttered with Stealth Rock, and heal off all unnecessary damage.</p>

<p>At 385 Speed, Crobat is outspeeding all Pokemon that reach 383, which includes Weavile, important because Weavile's Ice Shard will never OHKO Crobat, while Crobat's Nasty Plot Hidden Power Fighting will. At 374 HP / 206 Def / 196 SpD, Crobat is bulkier than the standard Starmie, and it can uses its 50% recovery move to remove two common weaknesses, Electric and Ice (though, in the process, adding a Ground weakness). Crobat's typing, which allows it to resist Fighting, Bug and Grass, (as well as that immunity to ground), is also very useful in allowing Crobat to switch into battle more efficiently.</p>

 

[Juuka]

At 374 HP / 206 Def / 196 SpD, Crobat is bulkier than the standard Starmie, and it can uses its 50% recovery move to remove two common weaknesses, Electric and Ice (though, in the process, adding a Ground weakness).

It should be use. Also, shouldn't Rock be mentioned along with Electric and Ice? Or is Crobat too frail to take STABed rock moves?

 

[junior]

He was mentioning common attacking types and Rock-type attacking moves isn't that common.

[SET COMMENTS]
<p>With Air Slash + Hidden Power Fighting, Crobat is able to hit every Pokemon, besides Rotom and Zapdos, for at least neutral damage. Nasty Plot increases Crobat's admittedly dismal Special Attack. Roost allows Crobat to switch repeatedly into Stealth Rock and heal off all unnecessary damage.</p>

Metagames changes all the time and I don't think an analysis should be focused on that metagame that may never come up again. A generic statement for this is better, thus the change above.

<p>At 385 Speed, Crobat is outspeeding all Pokemon that reach 383, which includes Weavile. Outspeeding Weavile is particularly important as you do not want to take an Ice Punch, which KOs. Instead, you would rather take an Ice Shard , as this particular Crobat can take an Ice Shard, and strike back with a Nasty Plotted Hidden Power: Fight for an OHKO.

You had two completely different subject that don't really relate to each other in one sentence which makes it awkward and doesn't seem to make sense.
i.e. what does Crobat's speed have anything to do with surviving Ice Shard? How is it important to surviving Ice Shard?

So I splitted them into a few sentences. Eh, I didn't know how to make the paragraph briefer while making everything clear, as well as making sense though.

 

[Great Sage]

I'm not sure that not having any Special Attack EVs on Crobat, especially with its poor Special Attack, is the right course to take. If you're really against putting anything in Special Attack, at least split off 24 EVs from Defense and put them in Special Defense. That gives Crobat guaranteed survival against a Timid Life Orb Gengar's Thunderbolt.

 

[User 12783]

I've used this kind of set before but I used HP Ground instead but Fighting seems better. Also I agree with Great Sage here, if you don't plan on running any Special Attack EVs you should take a few EVs from Defense and put them in Special Defense so it survives a Timid LO Gengar's T-Bolt.

The Set Comments are good, no nitpicking to be done.

 

[Invective]

<p>At 385 Speed, Crobat is outspeeding all Pokemon that reach 383, which includes Weavile. Outspeeding Weavile is important because Weavile's Ice Shard will never OHKO, while Crobat's Nasty Plotted Hidden Power Fighting will. At 374 HP / 206 Def / 196 SpD, Crobat is bulkier than the standard Starmie, and it can uses its 50% recovery move to remove two common weaknesses, Electric and Ice (though, in the process, adding a Ground weakness). Crobat's typing, which allows it to resist or be immune to Fighting, Ground, Bug and Grass, is also very useful in allowing Crobat to switch into battle more efficiently.</p>

Just a small nitpick i had with the first sentence of the second paragraph.

 

[RaikouLover]

Just wanted to post and ask if it would be appropriate to add a set to thse or if should start my own thread for another crobat set.

 

[Aldaron]

I actually want to make a whole Crobat revamp, so while the norm is to make your own thread, can you post it here?

That way I can cleanly integrate it into the revamp.

 

[RaikouLover]

[SET]
Name: Brave Bird + Roost
Move 1: Brave Bird
Move 2: Roost
Move 3: Taunt
Move 4: U-Turn / Substitute
Item: Leftovers / Sharp Beak
EVs: 80 HP / 252 Atk / 176 Spe
Nature: Jolly

[SET COMMENTS]
<p>This set utilizes Crobat's solid speed and Brave Bird's solid BP to make Crobat a nice attacking force. Roost cope with recoil and Stealth Rock Damage, as well as eliminating three of your four weaknesses and allow you to be a solid counter to fighting pokemon such as Infernape. Taunt allows Crobat to come out on top against most defensive walls, as it eliminates their forms of recovery and status. The final slot can use both U-Turn and Substitute. U-Turn can fulfill scouting duties, and Substitute is useful for additional stalling if toxic spikes are on the field.</p>

<p> 176 Speed EVs generate enough speed to outrun base 120s, as Crobat shouldn't want to tie against Aerodactyl and Jolteon. Max attack is needed for Brave Bird to have a good shot at OHKOing Gengar, but Sharp Beak will guarentee the KO.</p>

 

[Aldaron]

Yea that's an awesome set. I use U-turn on my version.

I'll integrate it as soon as I decide to do the Crobat revamp.

 

[Stellar]

[SET]
Name: Brave Bird + Roost
Move 1: Brave Bird
Move 2: Roost
Move 3: Taunt
Move 4: U-Turn / Substitute
Item: Leftovers / Sharp Beak
EVs: 80 HP / 252 Atk / 176 Spe
Nature: Jolly

[SET COMMENTS]
<p>This set utilizes Crobat's solid speed and Brave Bird's solid base power to transform Crobat into a respectable attacking force. Roost copes with recoil and Stealth Rock Damage, as well as eliminating three of Crobat's four weaknesses and allows Crobat to be a solid counter to fighting pokemon such as Infernape. Taunt allows Crobat to come out on top against most defensive walls. It prevents them utilizing recovery or status moves. U-Turn and Substitute are both usable in the final slot. U-Turn allows you to scout the opposing team and Substitute is useful for stalling if Toxic Spikes are on the field.</p>

<p> 176 Speed EVs generate enough speed to outrun positive base 120s. Crobat has no need for max speed in order to tie with Aerodactyl or Jolteon, because it will essentially always lose. Max Attack allows Crobat a reasonable shot at 1HKOing Gengar, but Sharp Beak seals the KO.</p>

Infernape isn't the ideal choice for a fighting type example, due to being able to attack from both spectrums. Otherwise it is a nice set.

 

[RaikouLover]

It makes a good counter to Breloom as well, but it can counter every fighting type there is as long as you dont switch into a CB Stone Edge.

 

[Stellar]

I was just pointing out that because Crobat takes a large dent from Flamethrower / Fire Blast / Overheat, it might be more beneficial to list a different example that Crobat more easily counters in order to place the set in a more viable light.

It was just a nitpick, its completely fine as it is.

EDIT: Spoke with RaikouLover on Shoddy and he agreed that it would be a better idea to list Breloom over Infernape.

 

[Aldaron]

Edited fixes, and I will integrate Raikou's set as soon as I start on the revamp.

 

[Negator]

[SET]
Name: Plot Roost Bat
EVs: 248 HP / 40 SpD / 220 Spe
Nature: Timid

Explanations:
248 Evs give you Odd Hp (with 31 ivs) for 5 swith into Stealths Rock, on my opinion have an Odd HP number is necessary, you don't know what could shuffle/force you to switch out, and you don't have always the time to roost.
With that huge HP amount, 40 Special defence EVS ensure you will always survive a T-Bolt from a Timid, Life orb, 252 SpA Evs Gengar, while 220 speed evs, if you are using HP Fight (30 speed IV), let you reach 385 speed (it is a kind of magic number seems)

This should be an option for your main set aldaron,
otherwise, for a more special offensive oriented set, I should only think at this one:

156 HP/SpD/Def, 132 SpA, 220 Spe

Same speed of above, enought special attack to kill Minum Hp Heracross with an unboosted Airshlash, the other evs should been spread between Hp and special defence or even defence: with 156 special defence evs there is a small chances to survive a t-bolt from gengar... but is very small...
here is the calculation:
Defender HP: 311 Move Damage: 275 - 324
Damage: 88.42% - 104.18%

 

[RaikouLover]

That calculation is incorrect. Gengar's unSTABed T-Bolt doesn't even KO a no HP Crobat, and certainly not one with HP EVs. I've faced numerous Timid Gengars with 80 HP Crobat and none have managed to do over 85%.

 

[Havak]

Small nitpick but U-Turn should be "U-turn".

 

[Serv]

and it can uses its 50% recovery move to remove two common weaknesses

Please replace "uses" with "use".

Crobat's typing is also very useful in allowing Crobat to switch into battle more efficiently.

I'd rephrase this to something like "Crobat's typing is very useful in that it allows Crobat to switch in easily in battle" or something like that.

Thanks.

 

[Negator]

That calculation is incorrect. Gengar's unSTABed T-Bolt doesn't even KO a no HP Crobat, and certainly not one with HP EVs. I've faced numerous Timid Gengars with 80 HP Crobat and none have managed to do over 85%.

metalkid calculations, I've done it again now, and gengar without life orb doesn't kill it, but with life orb it do those damages, unless metalkid is incorrect

 

[darkie]

metalkid IS incorrect. It overshoots damage. I've found that CardsOfTheHeart's calculator and http://ownpurpose.com/damage_calculator_test.php both work well.

 

[Raikizen]

I have to say, I've never used Crobat as a NPer. I've always used it as a fast Hypnosis/Fighting absorber/etc. It intrigued me, so I went ahead and played about 15 matches with NP Crobat and my results were... inconclusive. I can probably chalk that up to my inexperience overall.

-In 9 of the 15 matches, NP Crobat was effectively able to sweep 3 or more of the opposing opponent's pokemon. (Through great set up and SR)
- In 2 of the 15 matches, NP Crobat was able to take out at least 1-2 of the opposing pokemon.
- In 4 of the 15 matches, Crobat was all but useless and did little more than absorb status or fighting moves.

I should also mention I won 13 of those battles, and lost 2. Two of the battles were where Crobat was useless and the 2 where he only took out about 1 pokemon. As I said, in my eyes these are rather inconclusive. But I did enjoy the set overall. Crobat is a huge favorite of mine and anyway he is made better I can congratulate. Nice job Aldaron. ;)

 

[Negator]

metalkid IS incorrect. It overshoots damage. I've found that CardsOfTheHeart's calculator and http://ownpurpose.com/damage_calculator_test.php both work well.

My calculations were right, I test those crobat spreads today with Tirsus over shoddy, and only with the spread I've listed,
248hp /40SpD /222 Spe
crobast was able to survive 100% of the times at 252 SpA, LO, gengar's T-Bolt...
Still, sadly, after a nasty plot, you are not able to OHKO gengar with air slash, and that is pretty dumb...
Don't know if we could really take gengar in consideration, BTW, since gengar is much more used scarfed that as LO user
Still, I hope those calculations will help :(

 

[Blue Kirby]

This post is for jrrrrrrr's and Aldaron's purposes...

Hold onto this. No action was taken after its completion.

 

[Havak]

Is any of this preferred over Twash Man's edit?

http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=45448

Are the Nasty Plot sets different enough to both be on the analysis?

If not, I prefer Aldaron's.