DP Gyarados .

[Aldaron]

Posted this over in the creative movesets thread, here, http://www.smogon.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1297000&postcount=2205

I then tested out Jibaku's Liechi Berry idea and my Salac Berry idea on Wi-fi (little cousin is over and he brought a DS...first experience with Pokemon Wi-fi >______>)

Muscle Band was initially the better item, but after 2 battles, I got the "hang" of utilizing Liechi and Salac to their fullest, and now I can't even imagine using Muscle Band.

Anyway, the peer edit:

http://www.smogon.com/dp/pokemon/gyarados

[SET]
Name: Substitute DD Gyarados
Move 1: Dragon Dance
Move 2: Substitute
Move 3: Waterfall
Move 4: Flail
Item: Liechi Berry / Salac Berry
EVs: 24 HP / 252 Atk / 232 Spe
Nature: Adamant

[SET COMMENTS]
<p>Gyarados has the ability to easily switch into battle and force the opponent to switch. This set takes advantage of both factors in order to set up. On the turn the opponent switches to its counter, Gyarados will Substitute. Depending on the counter, Gyarados will either Dragon Dance or Substitute accordingly, and proceed to sweep with a huge advantage in Speed and Attack. It might seem like the ease by which this is done is being oversimplified; however, this cannot be farther from the truth. How does nearly every individual deal with Gyarados? By switching, which gives Gyarados the opportunity to set up its Substitute.</p>

<p>For example, if the opponent switched in Starmie, Gyarados will Substitute down to Liechi activation and Dragon Dance on the final Substitute breaking turn, giving Gyarados +2 Attack, +1 Speed and a 200 BP move to easily OHKO Starmie with. However, if something like Celebi was switched in the turn Gyarados used Substitute, Gyarados will then Dragon Dance, and use Substitute if it feels a Thunder Wave / Leech Seed coming or Dragon Dance if a Grass Knot is coming. Depending on the amount of health left, Gyarados will then (probably) Substitute again for the Berry activation, and have +3 Attack, +2 Speed and 200 BP move to deal with the opposition.</p>

<p>Liechi Berry or Salac Berry is purely a matter of preference at the end. It depends on whether having Gyarados outspeed Deoxys-S that switch in later is preferred, or if having the extra boost of Attack is preferred, mostly to OHKO threats like Celebi.</p>

 

[junior]

This is kind of long for a gimmick set. It's even longer than BulkyGyara and DDGyara.

I would cut out some unnecessary/self explanatory things like:

<p>Liechi Berry or Salac Berry is purely a matter of preference at the end. It depends on whether having Gyarados outspeed Deoxys-S switching in is preferred, or if having the extra boost of Attack is preferred to OHKO threats like Celebi.</p>

Anyway, some nit picking...

[SET COMMENTS]
<p>This set uses Gyarados' ability to easily switch into battle, and easily force an opponent to switch, to set up.

Anything noun that ends with the letter 's' and is in possession of something does not need the extra 's' after the apostrophe.

 

[junior]

Gimmick set? You have to be joking.

This is easily the most effective Gyarados set I have used to date. In fact, it is my new SD Luke ;D

I'm not joking. With Priority attacks and SS still being very common, it won't be able to 'sweep' at all.

Actually, you could always make the HP divisible by 4 in order to sub 3 times to get a boost and still survive a couple of turns with SS in play.

 

[rkatzam]

It -is- quite a gimmick because Sandstorm is in almost every battle, and it will screw him.

 

[Aldaron]

Guys, instead of wasting my time with useless crap like trying to tell me something is gimmick, just find errors please lol.

Telling me it is funny that a gimmick set is longer than the standard sets means nothing to me.

And emphasizing something is a gimmick has even less meaning. I have no idea how Rkatzam wanted to contribute to this Peer Edit, but all he did was spam it with useless information. Thank you.

 

[Phuquoph]

[SET]
Name: Substitute DD Gyarados
Move 1: Dragon Dance
Move 2: Substitute
Move 3: Waterfall
Move 4: Flail
Item: Liechi Berry / Salac Berry
EVs: 24 HP / 252 Atk / 232 Spe
Nature: Adamant
Ability: Intimidate
Don't use ability tags if the Pokemon only has one ability. You don't need to capitalize Move 1, Item, Nature, etc. The Dex adds all this automatically.

[SET COMMENTS]
<p>This set uses Gyarados's ability to easily switch into battle, and easily force an opponent to switch, to set up. On the turn the opponent switches to its counter, Gyarados will Substitute. Depending on the counter, Gyarados will either Dragon Dance or Substitute accordingly, and proceed to sweep with a huge advantage in Speed and Attack.</p>

<p>For example, if the opponent switched in Starmie, Gyarados will Substitute down to Liechi activation and Dragon Dance on the final Substitute breaking turn, giving Gyarados +2 Attack, +1 Speed and a 200 BP move to easily OHKO Starmie with. However, if something like Celebi was switched in the turn Gyarados used Substitute, Gyarados will then Dragon Dance, and use Substitute if it feels a Thunder Wave / Leech Seed coming or Dragon Dance if a Grass Knot is coming. Depending on the amount of health left, Gyarados will then (probably) Substitute again for the Berry activation, and have +3 Attack, +2 Speed and 200 BP move to deal with the opposition.</p>

<p>It seem like the ease by which this is done is being oversimplified; however, this cannot be farther from the truth. How does nearly every individual deal with Gyarados? By switching, which of course, gives Gyarados the opportunity to set up its Substitute.</p>
Merge this into the first paragraph, seems out of place down here.

<p>Liechi Berry or Salac Berry is purely a matter of preference at the end. It depends on whether having Gyarados outspeed Deoxys-S switching in is preferred, or if having the extra boost of Attack is preferred to OHKO threats like Celebi.</p>

Aldaron, if you are getting poor replies just ignore them. You're just inviting more unhelpful nonsense by responding to them. As for the rest of you, do not comment on peer edits unless you have experience using or playing against the set in question (ideally you should have both).

I've only used it in a handful of battles so far, but the results were good. However, I didn't get much experience on how this does against the following:
- Bulky Waters with HP Electric (Vappy, Milo, Cune). Killed one Vappy, but it was severly weakened when it came in. Only saw one Cune and it was killed before Gyarados set up. How does it fare one-on-one against them if they are at full strength?
- Cresselia. Didn't run into any, how much does a +2 Flail do to it?

I know from using Reversal Blaziken before, that Sandstorm is an annoyance but not the end of the world. If you get your boost off, then get the berry to kick in you can do plenty of damage for one or two turns. From my limited experience of using this Gyarados in Sandstorm (I put it on a Rain team, so it wasn't in the Sand too often), it seems the same is true. Further information about using this in the Sand would be helpful to put in the Set Comments.

 

[Aldaron]

Edited in fixes, and I'll think about how to mention how this plays in Sand specifically.

 

[maddog]

I would mention that if you are worried about Sandstorm ruining your stragety, you could set up Rain Dance. Also a little note you should mention in the writeup is that Gyarados is one of the only pokes that when they try and Sub down to 1 HP, you don't have to worry about SR. That would be the main reason I can see me using this.

 

[matty]

Another good set. I saw Justinawe using this yesterday to good avail. The berry was a good alternative to the Muscle Band on your first draft.

I'm curious about the 232 Spd stat. Wouldn't the 184 Spd stat from the DD set be just as equal and allowing you to put more in HP? (Unless it is for Deo-S, but I couldn't tell from what you wrote)

 

[Aldaron]

this post is for jrrrrrrr's and Aldaron's purposes...

delete, site represents