DP Little Cup Analysis

[EvilMario]

The Little Cup Analysis is very well put together, but these are a couple minor corrections that should be made.

• Cranidos
• Sheildon
• Burmy

Sheildon should be Shieldon. The hyperlink is also misspelled, leading to a 404.

Porygon @ Choice Specs/Choice Scarf/Life Orb/Expert Belt
Trace/Download
- Ice Beam
- Thunderbolt
- Tri Attack
- Signal Beam/Shadow Ball

Porygon will never be able to obtain Tri Attack by level 5, as it's only able to breed with Ditto.


On another note, if we'd like to help contribute to Little Cup Analysis, where would be the appropriate place?

 

[ryubahamut]

fixed the error regarding shieldon. also, this is quite the appropriate thread if you're looking forward to help contribute to the little cup analysis :)

 

[cim]

Why is Item Clause on? There should be at least an explanation and possibly a removal of that line. That seems like a personal choice by the author rather than a consensus-driven policy.

The hax item line is fairly out of date.

Meditite should probably replace Cranidos as "premier physical attacker" or at least be listed. Scarf and great coverage make him awesome.

Tri Attack is available by Move Tutor, no?

 

[Acredula]

In the Larvitar set, it says Jolly (+Atk, -Spd). Is it Jolly or Adamant?

Also, Munchlax isn't listed in the ban list or the D/P gen. list. It applies, just like other baby Pokémon. Tangela is also missing, as are Gligar, Likitung (sp?), Sneasel, Aipom, Misdreavus, Meditite, Clamperl and Murkrow. At least put the Pokémon up for testing on the ban list.

This is kind of wondering out of the scope of the topic, but I don't think Trapinch should be allowed. It's already viable in UU.

 

[Soma]

To be honest I don't see why Trapinch's viability in UU should make it banned from the Little Cup. It needs Trick Room to be successful and despite it's 100 base attack it won't do much since just about everything will outspeed it (not to mention Pokemon like Abra and Cranidos have better offensive stats and better speed).

I feel that the Incense/Plate items deserve a mention in the items section of this article for the same reason Muscle Band is mentioned (for sweepers who require diversity and health).

Also, I think it would be nice to add some Little Cup analysises for Pokemon who are usable in Little Cup but aren't necessarily team staples. Does anyone else agree?

 

[Acredula]

To be honest I don't see why Trapinch's viability in UU should make it banned from the Little Cup. It needs Trick Room to be successful and despite it's 100 base attack it won't do much since just about everything will outspeed it (not to mention Pokemon like Abra and Cranidos have better offensive stats and better speed).

I would say touché, but it has Arena Trap, making it a stronger Diglett.

I feel that the Incense/Plate items deserve a mention in the items section of this article for the same reason Muscle Band is mentioned (for sweepers who require diversity and health).

Those items just boost one type of attack--muscle/wise band/glasses is much more viable.

Also, I think it would be nice to add some Little Cup analysises for Pokemon who are usable in Little Cup but aren't necessarily team staples. Does anyone else agree?

I agree. That would be nice. I can easily see something like Magnemite, Staryu, Meowth or Smoochum becoming viable choices in Little Cup.

 

[Soma]

I would say touché, but it has Arena Trap, making it a stronger Diglett.

Still, chances are it won't be able to revenge kill much with it's low speed and defenses which is what Arena Trap is meant to do.

Those items just boost one type of attack--muscle/wise band/glasses is much more viable.

I feel they're worth mentioning because the boost is 10% higher then Muscle Band and Wise Glasses so they may be a preferable choice on a Pokemon you know will be using a certain type move a lot.

I agree. That would be nice. I can easily see something like Magnemite, Staryu, Meowth or Smoochum becoming viable choices in Little Cup.

Thanks for the support. Maybe someone could give us the go ahead so we could write a couple.

 

[Acredula]

This is the part where I say, Ah, touché. =)

Maybe we can have Little Cup tiers. xD

 

[Deck Knight]

Little Cup Rhyhorn:

Rhyhorn @ Oran Berry/Life Orb
Nature: Adamant (+Atk -SA)
EVs: 232 Atk/232 Spd/56 SD
~ Rock Polish
~ Earthquake
~ Stone Edge
~ Megahorn

+2 Speed Boosts are scary in Little Cup because where they might be useless for pokemon as slow as Rhyhorn in Lv100 Play, in Little Cup Rhyhorn hits 24 Speed after Rock Polish, allowing it to beat even Adamant Scarfed Cranidos (it ties Jolly Scarfed Cranidos). Combined with Rhyhorn's high-powered arsenal of attacks which fully cover every pokemon in LC, and you have a dangerous force on your hands. Use Oran Berry if you want some survivability or go whole hog with Life Orb. If you're worried about missing, you could use Wide Lens to help.

This would also be fairly scary on an LC Sandstorm Team if only because Rhyhorn ends up with 24 HP/16 Def/15 SDef with this set LOL.

Otherwise its a good start. Little Cup was always a fun distraction in Stadium 2, no matter how infuriating R2 was.

 

[eric the espeon]

I don't see why Item Clause is a must, now that we have more than the 2 or 3 viable items we had in ADV (Choice Band, Salac Berry, Sitrus Berry) allowing people to have 2 Choice Scarves, Focus Sashes or Life Orbs would not be a problem.
It should be optional, not mandatory.

Munchlax@Oran Berry/Choice Band
236 HP/38 Defence/236 Sp. Defence
Adamant/Careful
Return/Double-Edge
Earthquake
Rock Slide
Pursuit

This is one of the few Pokemon in Little Cup that can switch into Abra and survive, it can then KO Abra on the switch with Pursuit.
Choice Band gives you the power to KO many of the weaker threats in little cup, while Oran Berry lets you have a 1 off chance to restore almost 1/3 of your health. Rest+Chesto Berry could work if Little Cup was not so fast paced.
33 HP and 19 Sp. def make this LC's strongest Sp. wall, however the strongest Sp. sweepers will be able to take it down by shear force.

Yanma@Life Orb/Wide Lens/Focus Sash
210 SpA/64 Sp. Def/236 Spe
Modest/Rash
Protect
Air Slash
Hypnosis
U-Turn/Bug Buzz

After a turn of protecting this reaches 28 speed, enough to beat almost all LC Pokemon but the fastest Scarfers, and those with speed boosts. After 2 turns nothing can keep up with it.
18 Sp. Attack is not too shabby when combined with Life Orb, and a fast Hypnosis is always good.
Bug Buzz gives it a nice reliable secondary STAB, but U-Turn is great for scouting and runs off a usable 13 Attack stat.
Hidden Power Fight (or another type) is an option over Bug STAB to hurt specific threats.

 

[cim]

I thought that HP Fighting OHKO'd said Munchlax, and since STAB Psychic is only 5 BP less (equivalent), wouldn't it nearly kill Munchlax?

Yanma is extremely potent.

Since NFE's don't have analyses in the SCMS, do you think that Little Cup analyess could go there or something?

 

[eric the espeon]

I thought that HP Fighting OHKO'd said Munchlax, and since STAB Psychic is only 5 BP less (equivalent), wouldn't it nearly kill Munchlax?

iirc that was with a non boosting nature on munchlax, and specs. I will do some damage calcs to see if it can take down ScarfAbra.

Yanma is extremely potent.

That is an underestimation, I did some testing yesterday and IMO it is totally broken, 2/3 of the time it swept away 4+ Pokemon straight away until LO recoil (and the odd priority move) took it down.
I used this set:

Yanma@LO
236 sp. attack/236 speed
Modest
Protect
Hypnosis
Air Slash
Bug Buzz

It 2KOed Magnamite, and that electric/water fish thing with Bug Buzz (even with Oran Berry) Hypnosis stops one counter and protect lets you outspeed all of Little Cup.

The only time I did not win 4-5:0 useing this as a lead was when my opponents had one as well, and they had a sand streamer so I fainted from SS+LO+Riolu Bullet punch after a few turns.

Since NFE's don't have analyses in the SCMS, do you think that Little Cup analyess could go there or something?

I was thinking the same thing, and would be happy to help write some of them.


Also after a little testing (pun intended) Item Clause is NOT needed, SR and auto weather stop everything from being sashed and Yanma stops scarf from overcentralising. Its an annoying nuisance when making teams.

 

[Evil Hamster]

After quite a lot of testing, I've come to the following conclusions regarding potential banning cases.

Yanma; as already stated, outspeeds the entire metagame (nearly) after a turn Protecting without the need for a +Spe nature. Hypnosis shuts down any potential counters, and seeing as most things that can shrug off status in the Little Cup (Murkrow, Staryu) is pretty scared of Yanma, it's near impossible to take down.

Sneasel is also a bit overpowered imo. Outspeeds everything in the metagame that isn't Scarfed or speed boosted in some way, STAB Ice Shard, massive Attack and Swords Dance make it really, really hard to stop.

Cranidos seems pretty broken too; with a scarf/Rock Polish it hits a decent speed, and is still capable of killing the entire metagame with STAB Stone Edge. There really are very few viable rock resists; Bronzor and Onix aren't really offensive enough to be workable in Little Cup, Riolu, Mankey, Diglett, Larvitar, Meditite and Trapinch aren't bulky enough, and that only really leaves Rhyhorn :(

Gligar, Tangela and Meditite have very good stats when compared with everything else, but neither Gligar or Meditite have ever really seemed to be so much better that they're overpowering, at least not to the extent of Yanma. Never faced a Tangela, so I can't comment, but I can't see it being that overpowering.

 

[eric the espeon]

I think Yanma needs a ban, and possibly testing at a later stage, but the others (Sneesel and Cranados) need a turn of set up so maybe are not so bad. They should be left unbanned for now.

 

[cim]

Meditite I think for all practical purposes is better than Cranidos. He actually has a tiny amount of defense, a higher Attack stat I think and more Speed.

I'd say Yanma's out. It seems better than Scyther almost. Leave Sneasel, Cranidos in for now, let's see what happens with them.

Meditite (M) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Pure Power
EVs: 116 HP/196 Atk/196 Spd
Adamant nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Hi Jump Kick
- Psycho Cut
- Thunderpunch
- Ice Punch
---

Outspeeds a huge portion of the game with 22 Speed. 22 Speed + 28 Attack = happy fun time.

Aipom (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Pickup
EVs: 76 HP/196 Atk/236 Spd
Jolly nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- Return
- Pursuit
- Brick Break
- U-turn
---

A fast powerful Pursuit's always nice and Aipom can do the job, albeit without Technician to boost it if they don't switch. Rest is standard; U-Turn should hurt stuff like Staryu or Sneasel. Or something.

Chinchou (M) @ Oran Berry
Ability: Volt Absorb
EVs: 156 HP/56 Def/148 SAtk/148 SDef
Calm nature (+SDef, -Atk)
- Surf
- Discharge
- Ice Beam
- Confuse Ray
---

Parafusion will buy some time in Little Cup for something to try and set up like Cranidos, Misdreavus, or Sneasel. Still has the important Boltbeam resist for Staryu or something.

Geodude (M) @ Oran Berry
Ability: Rock Head
EVs: 116 HP/196 Atk/196 Def
Impish nature (+Def, -SAtk)
- Stone Edge
- Earthquake
- Fire Punch
- Explosion
---

If you like Exploding and want to do the same job as Rhyhorn, Geodude can help. Fire Punch for Bronzor or something.

Misdreavus (M) @ Wise Glasses
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 28 HP/240 Spd/240 SAtk
Timid nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Shadow Ball
- Hidden Power [Fighting]
- Calm Mind
- Destiny Bond
---

Calm Mind sweeper might work. Destiny Bond is fast and cool, no?

 

[eric the espeon]

Me and Evil Hamster are working on full analysis for the Little Cup Standards, so far Eevee, Magby and Murkrow are done.

I have done full speed tier's for LC, it took over 6 hours.......

We are testing the LC metagame on Doug CaP server mostly, so go there for LC battles.

All this and much more is in this thread: http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=40046

 

[hellmonkey]

Apart from helping with some LC analyses, recently I made a little guide about how EVs affect stats at Level 5, and how the Base Stats are grouped to reach certain numbers.

Would it be ok to post in on the main C&C forum for people to review it for a possible inclusion on the LC article?

 

[eric the espeon]

Just Post it Mr. H, I don't think anyone is going to reply here.