DP Research Thread #2 ("New")

Discussion in 'Stark Mountain' started by david stone, Jul 9, 2007.

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  1. david stone

    david stone Fast-moving, smart, sexy and alarming.
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    The other one is far too large, and there's some false information at some parts that's corrected later, so I figured it would be best if I just consolidated it all into one new thread.

    Here's a link to the old thread, in case you want to double-check something that was posted there, since I didn't copy over how they proved anything, just the findings.

    DP Research Thread #1 ("Old")



    DP Resource Thread: has valuable information for testing, such as the damage formula.


    Abilities: Questions and answers on abilities in DP
    Items: Questions and answers on items in DP
    Moves: Questions and answers on moves in DP
  2. david stone

    david stone Fast-moving, smart, sexy and alarming.
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    ABILITIES

    http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=21511

    Check this thread for what we currently know first. If you are looking for new abilities, the first post should have most of them. If you are looking for changes to old abilities, hit Ctrl+F, and search for ***.

    Anticipate: Does it inform this Pokemon of super-effective Judgment or Weather Ball? Is Counter considered a Fighting attack, is Metal Burst considered a Steel attack, and is Mirror Coat considered a Psychic attack? How about Beat Up, Doom Desire, and Future Sight?

    Clear Body: How does Unaware work with Clear Body?

    Download: What happens if the Defense and Special Defense are equal?

    Flower Gift: What is the effect of two Pokemon with Flower Gift out at the same time on the same team? Is it one bonus, added bonuses, or multiplied bonuses?

    Frisk: Frisk will only tell you about one of your opponents' items in a double battle. As an added kick in the teeth, it doesn't tell you which opponent has the item. It is unknown whether it picks a random opponent or uses an ordering of items (like Forewarn uses an ordering of moves) to decide which item to Frisk.

    Leaf Guard: It was never said in the other thread whether it stops Confusion.

    Magic Guard: Does Clefable take damage from enemy Pain Split (it can be healed), and if it somehow uses Pain Split, can it damage itself?

    Pickup: The new changes have been documented at http://members.shaw.ca/teamrocketelite/PickupTable.html. This was brought by Team Rocket Elite. Needs additional confirmation, but not a priority since there are only three changes.

    Poison Heal: A Poisoned Pokemon with Poison Heal still takes damage outside of battle.

    Rock Head: Does it block the damage caused by an opponent holding a Jaboca or Rowap Berry?

    Slow Start: Slow Start can be Skill Swapped away in English versions of DP, but not Japanese.

    Technician: There was some testing in another thread that seems to suggest that Technician boosts the power of Natural Gift if the held berry gives it 60 base power. Refer to http://www.smogon.com/forums/showpos...4&postcount=28.

    Needs at least one test on a berry that grants 70 or 80 power, just to be sure.

    Unburden: How does Unburden work with Trick? Does it work if the Pokemon with Unburden or the enemy Tricks and is
    a) holding the same berry
    b) holding a different berry
    c) holding no berry

    WonderGuard: Does Beat Up hit through Wonder Guard if
    a) the Pokemon is weak to Dark (Shedinja)
    b) the Pokemon isn't weak to Dark (Tracing Shedinja with Porygon2)
  3. david stone

    david stone Fast-moving, smart, sexy and alarming.
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    ITEMS:

    http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=21848

    Go here first for most of the item information. Most of the new items are in the first post. If you are looking for changes to old items, hit Ctrl+F and search for ***.

    BrightPowder: How much does it increase evasion?

    Grip Claw: Partial trapping moves have 3 extra turns.

    Focus Band: What is the chance to activate?

    King's Rock: What moves aren't given a chance to flinch? Is it all moves that can already flinch or all moves with a secondary effect (or something else?)

    Lax Incense: How much does it increase evasion?

    Micle Berry: What does it do?

    Power Ankle / Band / Belt / Lens / Waist / Wrist: In addition to the EVs normally gained from defeating an opponent, the holder will also gain 4 EVs in the stat the Power Item corresponds to (Waist: HP, Wrist: Attack, Belt: Defense, Lens: Special Attack, Band: Special Defense, Ankle: Speed). The holder's speed is also reduced 50%.

    Razor Fang: What is the flinch chance?

    Shell Bell: What doesn't activate it? I know Doom Desire, Future Sight, and any other end-of-turn damage does not, but other than that...

    Shoal Salt: Contrary to what Serebii says about it, Shoal Salt does NOT recover any HP in battle. It still does absolutely nothing.
  4. david stone

    david stone Fast-moving, smart, sexy and alarming.
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    MOVES:

    http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=21870

    This thread has most of what we know about moves already. If you are looking for new moves, the first post should have most of that. If you are looking for changes to old moves, hit Ctrl+F, and search for ***.

    Assist: What cannot be selected?

    Baton Pass: What works with Baton Pass:
    • Aqua Ring
    • Block (both on you and your opponent)
    • Curse (when used by a Ghost on the Baton Passer)
    • Embargo
    • Gastro Acid
    • Magnet Rise
    • Mean Look
    • Spider Web
    • Ingrain
    • Leech Seed
    • Perish Count
    • Substitute (keeps its HP)
    • Stat boosts / drops (Swords Dance, etc., including Focus Energy)

    What doesn't work with Baton Pass:
    • Partial Trappers (either on your own side or your opponent's) like Wrap
    • Attract
    • Camouflage
    • Conversion
    • Defense Curl's boost to Ice Ball and Rollout
    • Disable
    • Foresight
    • Imprison
    • Minimize's damage boost with Stomp
    • Mud Sport
    • Nightmare (only possible if Sleep Talk can select Baton Pass and you bring out another Sleeping Pokemon)
    • Torment
    • Worry Seed

    What needs testing:
    • Conversion2
    • Lock-On (faster Pokemon uses Lock-On, slower Pokemon BPs, Pokemon that used Lock-On uses Fissure through 6 DTs, Sand Veil, and 6 Sand Attacks)
    • Mind Reader

    Bide: Now has the same move priority as Quick Attack, Extremespeed, etc.

    Bounce: Thunder and Sky Uppercut ignore Bounce. Gust gets doubled power against it. Whirlwind does not hit through Fly. Does Twister?

    Camouflage: What you get in DP WiFi / Union Room

    Building - Normal
    Road / Desert - Ground
    Grass / Tall Grass - Grass
    Pond / Ocean - Water
    Cave / Mountain - Rock
    Snow - Ice

    What you get from the terrains in PBR

    Gateway - Water
    Main Street - Normal
    Waterfall - Grass
    Neon - Normal
    Crystal - Rock
    Sunny Park - Grass
    Magma - Rock
    Sunset - Ground
    Courtyard - Normal
    Stargazer - Rock

    Conversion: Does it include itself as a potential type?

    Conversion2: Does it work when the user's Substitute was hit, rather than the actual user? Is it guaranteed to change your type, or does it pick from the types that resist the last move at random? Does it only look at the last turn, or is it the last move that hit? Does the attack have to connect, or is merely using it in the Conversion2 user's direction enough?

    Disable: How long does it last?

    Encore: How many turns does it last? The most likely amount is 4-8 turns.

    Fly: Thunder and Sky Uppercut ignore Fly. Gust gets doubled power against it. Whirlwind doesn't hit through it. Does Twister?

    Gravity: Gravity increases the accuracy of all Pokemon on the field by some large amount (most likely 2/3). This is still being researched. All you need to do is use Sing, Zap Cannon, or Dynamicpunch with Gravity in effect (Make sure you are not using No Guard Machamp to test Dynamicpunch!), and then report how many hit and how many you used were. Make sure you are not holding Zoom Lens, and the enemy doesn't have Brightpowder.

    Magic Coat: What's returned?

    Magnitude: What is the range of power / damage?

    Me First: Does it copy Avalanche / Revenge?

    Metronome: What can't it pick, if anything?

    Mirror Move: The attack no longer needs to connect with the Pokemon using Mirror Move for it to work.

    Mist: Does it block Haze, Heart Swap, Power Swap, or Intimidate?

    Nature Power: Has some new moves chosen for the various arenas in DP:

    Road / Desert = Earthquake
    Building = Tri Attack
    Grass / Tall grass = Seed Bomb
    Cave / Mountain = Rock Slide
    Snow = Blizzard
    Pond / Ocean = Hydro Pump

    Note that in WiFi / link battles, only one attack can be chosen, and that's Tri Attack.

    In PBR:

    Gateway - Hydro Pump
    Main Street - Tri Attack
    Waterfall - Seed Bomb
    Neon - Tri Attack
    Crystal - Rock Slide
    Sunny Park - Seed Bomb
    Magma - Rock Slide
    Sunset - Earthquake
    Courtyard - Tri Attack
    Stargazer - Rock Slide

    Pursuit: If a Pokemon holding a Choice Band / Choice Glasses / Choice Scarf uses Pursuit against a Pokemon switching out (and ONLY against a Pokemon switching out), they can no longer reselect a different move next turn, even if this happens on the Choice item holder's first turn in battle. They can change moves in the Japanese version of DP, but in cross-language battles, the English version's settings override it.

    Recycle: Does Recycle restore an item lost to Nature Gift, Bug Bite, Pluck, Knock Off, Covet, Thief, Trick, or Switcheroo?

    It does restore items lost to Fling.

    Secret Power: What is the chance of these effects occurring? Is it 30% for all of them?

    Road / Desert = Lowers Accuracy 1 stage
    Building = Paralyzes
    Grass / Tall grass = Sleep
    Cave / Mountain = Flinches
    Snow = Freezes
    Pond / Ocean = Lowers Attack 1 stage

    Note that in WiFi / link battles, the only available stage is Building, so you only can paralyze with Secret Power there.

    Secret Power in Battle Revolution:

    Gateway - Lowers Attack
    Main Street - Paralyze
    Waterfall - Sleep
    Neon - Paralyze
    Crystal - Flinch
    Sunny Park - Sleep
    Magma - Flinch
    Sunset - Lowers Accuracy
    Courtyard - Paralyze
    Stargazer - Flinch

    Sleep Talk: Cannot select: Focus Punch

    Tickle: No longer hits through Substitutes.

    Transform: Ditto doesn't keep the boosts from Metal Powder or Speed Powder after it Transforms, but does keep the boosts of Choice Scarf, Choice Band, and Choice Specs (last two need testing).

    Triple Kick: Does Triple Kick have up to 3 chances to proc effects of held items, for instance, the Flinch from King's Rock? How about moves like Icicle Spear and Fury Swipes?

    Twineedle: Contrary to popular belief, it cannot Poison Steel types.


    Pokemon cannot die to Poison outside of battle. If they are taken to 1 HP and are supposed to receive more walking damage from Poison, they are cured of Poison and receive a message saying so.
  5. sanjay120

    sanjay120

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    I'm pretty sure Castform transforms in Hail, at least it worked like that in ADV. Tested on a Ruby ROM.

    EDIT: Camouflage changes the user's type depending on the arena. Building/Stadium is Normal, I assume Snow would be Ice, River/Ocean is water...
  6. X-Act

    X-Act np: Biffy Clyro - Shock Shock
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    I'd add another question, if you don't mind:

    Is Return/Frustration's maximum base power still 102, or has this changed in DP?
  7. KevlarX290

    KevlarX290

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    Tested it, the user recieves 1/4 recoil.

    Yup, it works in ADV as well.

    I don't think it ever could poison Steel types. Well, I'm not sure about GSC, but I do know that it doesn't poison in the ADV games. I had tested it 80-100 times on wild Mawiles and none of them were ever poisoned.

    Yup. I put both opponents and my team mate to sleep and they were all awaken by Uproar. (It said that Stunky woke up from the Uproar after it had fainted lol).
  8. ΩDonut

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    Clear Body does not block Heart\Power\Guard Swap.

    Twineedle hasn't been able to poison Steels since Advance.

    Uproar does awaken Sleepers.

    Assist could call the moves of fainted teammates in Advance. It was only in Colosseum\XD, and possibly PBR as well (since they're all Genius Sonority products) where it failed if there were no conscious teammates.

    ...and Castform does have an Ice-type form in Hail.

    Iron Orb makes the holder vulnerable to Ground moves; it does not remove the Flying-type.

    Aguav, Figy, Iapapa, Mago, and Wiki Berries still recover 1/8 of the holder's total HP.

    Mimic\Transform's PP is always 5 after use. Not so sure about Sketch.

    Present is random power, not random damage.

    If a Magic Guard Clefable is Leech Seeded, absolutely nothing happens. No healing, no damage, not even a message.

    Oran Berries still recover 10 HP.
  9. Akayfortyseven

    Akayfortyseven

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    Sketch gives the sketched move 5pp iirc.
  10. sanjay120

    sanjay120

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    You mean Transform.
  11. ΩDonut

    ΩDonut don't glaze me bro
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    TRE established that Return\Frustration's max power was still 102 because one of his damages from Return dealt more than was possible for a 100 base damage attack.

    However, considering that the odd results I got when testing Hidden Power with Technician, we may want to test this again once you and Peterko have published your new damage formula.

    I also tested Hydration further. The Hydration status cure occurs after the "Rain continues to fall" message, so Hydration will not cure status the turn the rain vanishes.
  12. Arseus

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    Thanks for the new thread Obi, the other one was getting out of control. I actually have something to contribute this time!

    Forecast : Castform does indeed change in Hail to an Ice Type, at least in Pokémon Battle Revolution. I'm assuming OmegaDonut tested in D/P.

    King's Rock : You didn't write it out, but King's Rock does not give an added Flinch rate to moves that can already Flinch on their own.
  13. ΩDonut

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    Castform has had an Ice-type form since Advance.
  14. X-Act

    X-Act np: Biffy Clyro - Shock Shock
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    Yeah, I remember having an Ice-type Castform TCG card lol.

    Information about Solar Power will be posted soon.

    By the way, we established that Technician actually boosts the move power by 1.5 if it is 60 or less, even though I said that it doesn't do this before. So it doesn't boost the damage by 1.5, but the move power itself.
  15. Arseus

    Arseus
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    Yet we still needed the answer? Oh well, seeing as how nobody used Castform anyway... also, I'd be willing to test this out:

    "Multitype: Is the Sticky Hold bonus actually because of Multitype or something special to Arceus? Assuming Multitype can be Traced, you can test this by switching in Gardevoir, and then switching Arceus to something with Knock Off."

    I'll post in the Battle Me thread to see who can assist me with this.
  16. Peterko

    Peterko Never give up!
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    solar power gives a 1.5x sepcial attack boost in sun, but the pokémon loses 12.5% health (1/8) each turn the sun shines...furthermore, this boost is not a normal stat boost, as tropius (what I used) got a 1.5x boost even after 6 times using growth :]

    EDIT: the position of the modifier is after special attack in the damage formula, an example for how it works is: 120 SpAtk with 2 Growths and Solar Power: 120 x 2 = 240. 240 x 1.5 = 360, NOT 120 x 2.5 = 300
  17. Surgo

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    Could someone check the CH percent chance of high-CH moves? I don't think it was ever actually verified to be 25% this gen.
  18. X-Act

    X-Act np: Biffy Clyro - Shock Shock
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    I've started summer holidays today, and I see that there are quite a lot of things to keep me busy. :jump:

    The damage formula thing is almost ready too. Peterko is doing an incredible job.
  19. Peterko

    Peterko Never give up!
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    yes I will do this today, as there are only 4 more abilities to test for the dmg formula...a little sample was in my sniper post, I got 2/20, 3/20 and 5/20 with cross poison

    EDIT: a poison heal pokémon takes NO damage while walking outside of a battle
  20. Boa1891

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    Why Triple Kick specifically? Either way, I know that it lets you live through Fury Swipes (though it seems limited to only two hits) and other ones like Bonemerang.
    I've done small testing on Protect, and I've come up with the following:
    If you have No Guard, you seem to have regular accuracy and be able to hit through protect (example: Dynamic Punch will hit through Protect 50% of the time). I got spastic results, from missing 4 times in a row to hitting almost every time, but that's the way it works with 50% chances, eh?
    Thunder in the rain has regular 70% accuracy on someone using protect (I hit 7/10 attacks in my test, so I don't see a need to test any further)
    I assume the same goes for Blizzard in Hail, and all moves that have been "Lock On"'d.

    5PP for all moves.
    Unsure on if it copies opponents' Choice boosts.
    Does NOT adjust stats for the level, so a level 1 Ditto into a level 100 will always have the same stats aside from HP. Though a level 100 will still do 100 times as much damage.
    Yes.
  21. Team Rocket Elite

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    Lv100 Staraptor - 369 Atk
    Lv100 Snorlax - 229 Def
    Staraptor using max power Return

    199, 196, 205, 189, 411(CH), 186

    Base Power: 102
  22. AJC

    AJC

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    does rivalry only effect physcial attacks or does it boost both physcial and special attacks by 25%
  23. Team Rocket Elite

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    I've done small testing on Protect, and I've come up with the following:
    If you have No Guard, you seem to have regular accuracy and be able to hit through protect (example: Dynamic Punch will hit through Protect 50% of the time). I got spastic results, from missing 4 times in a row to hitting almost every time, but that's the way it works with 50% chances, eh?


    Could be more specific with how you tested No Guard and Protect. I've done a few tests and I've never seen a No Guard Machamp hit through a Protect. I did two tests: No Guard + Dynamic Punch fails 10 times in a row against Protect. I gave Machamp 6 X Accuracy and had it use Ice Punch. Once again it failed 10 times in a row against Protect. In all cases I was attacking my ally. I'm not sure if that matters since Rain Dance + Thunder does break through your ally's Protect.
  24. Yashichi

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    Err, in my other post, I seem to have left out the number of times it actually hit. <_<
    It hit 3 out of 12 times, an observed 25% chance. Maybe you got really lucky in hitting 7 out of 10 times. I'll test it again now.

    Edit: After testing again, Thunder only hit the Protecting Kyogre in the rain 2 out of 12 times. One of us is obviously having a ridiculous stroke of luck >_>
    . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . ._
    In all, 5 out of 24 hit, which is 20.83%. The actual chance of hitting seems to be either 20% or 25%. I'll do another test later, when i'm done breeding Zigzagoons.
  25. Tangerine

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    Played with Micle Berry a bit.

    Boosts Accuracy of the next move when your HP is under 25%.

    I tested this with Fissures, so for 14/18 have hit. I'll do a couple more tests.
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