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DP Research Thread #2 ("New")
- Thread starter obi
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Those types of questions are more suited to this thread, as it is not something that requires research and will not give any new information on game mechanics.
^Sorry bout that. thanks I'll remove my post
Just a quick note on Speed Boost, since I don't know where else to post this (the Ability Descriptions thread needs this, probably): Speed Boost doesn't trigger on the end of a turn where the pokemon was switched in, whether it be from a regular switch, a U-Turn, or a Baton Pass. Speed Boost does keep working, however, even if you're fully paralyzed and don't do an action in a turn.
I was looking at Mold Breaker, and I think all the abilities make sense, with the possible exception of Simple...
Older quote about it:
Also, does Mold Breaker affect both opponents in 2v2? I've found some information on some of this stuff using search, but the move description thread doesn't mention it, so I'm sorry if I missed it.
Older quote about it:
Flower Gift was affected because it raised the team's special defense...so...does the team keep the attack boost, just not the special defense boost? Does Simple stop working, or just lose double defensive boosts or something?
Also, does Mold Breaker affect both opponents in 2v2? I've found some information on some of this stuff using search, but the move description thread doesn't mention it, so I'm sorry if I missed it.
Mold Breaker only effects the attacks used by the Pokemon with Mold Breaker. So if Rampardos uses Earthquake, all Pokemon(all or enemy) with Levitate will be hit by the attack as if they didn't have Levitate. Earthquake from any other Pokemon on the field will not effect Levitating Pokemon. If the opponent has Flower Gift, Rampardos' attacks will ignore the Special Defense up part of it. The Attack up will still work as normal. Simple will also be ignored so the stat boosts will work as normal. Now that I think about it, I'm not sure it Rampardos' Mold Breaker will cause it to ignore its ally's Flower Gift Attack boost. Also I'm not sure if the SpDef boost is still ignored if you are not attacking the Pokemon that has Flower Gift.
Yes. Mold Breaker will negate you ally's Levitate.
With a 2/3 increase, you'd expect 55 hits exactly.
With a 2/3 increase, you'd expect 33 (and 1/3) hits.
So my guess is that the increase is not 70%, but 66.7% (2/3). I say this because the Accuracy charts use base 3/3 for alterations, so an increase equivalent to two levels would put you at 5/3, or an increase of 2/3 accuracy. This follows the pattern of Reflect essentially doubling Defense (a two stage increase in standard Defense chart), Light Screen doubling Special Defense (a two stage increase in the Special Defense chart), and Tailwind doubles Speed (two stages in the Speed chart). It would follow that Gravity would be the equivalent of a two stage increase in the Accuracy chart (or a two stage decrease in the Evasion chart, but there is exactly no difference because it multiplies with other Evasion / Accuracy modifiers). It's most likely a decrease in Evasion because it is a field effect on all Pokemon, but it's less confusing to state it as an increase in Accuracy, and has no testable difference.
If we're talking about Accuracy, how do OHKO's Accuracy and Pokemon levels interact?
Oh, yeah, more data I forgot to include:
Wisp still has 100% accuracy, Thunder does, too. Sing is expected to hit 14 + 2/3 times, and the integer closest to that is 15. Zap Cannon hits 22.5 times expected with 2/3 increase, which is closest to 23 hits.
Sing (55%):
55/60 = 2/3 increase (OmegaDonut)
15/16 = 70.5% increase (Wizard of Odd)
70/76 = 67.5% increase (total, and the closest amount of hits to a 2/3 increase possible (expected 69 and 2/3 hits = 70 hits)
Dynamicpunch and Zap Cannon (50%)
34/40 = 70% increase (Peterko)
23/27 = 70.4% increase (Wizard of Odd)
57/67 = 70.1% increase (total, and one more than the closest amount of hits to a 2/3 increase (expected 55.8 hits = 56 hits)
I was just wondering the same thing about the OHKO formula, since I couldn't find it anywhere. I sorta didn't want to ask here though since it seems pretty irrelevant with L100 fighters. :P
If we're on that topic, however, was it confirmed for sure that OHKO moves ignore both accuracy and evade modifiers in D/P? And if so, are these gravity tests indicating that gravity affects OHKO moves (though I see something about the data being thrown out)?
And what about Will-O-Wisp hitting 100% so far? Shouldn't it be expected to hit 85% of the time?
If we're on that topic, however, was it confirmed for sure that OHKO moves ignore both accuracy and evade modifiers in D/P? And if so, are these gravity tests indicating that gravity affects OHKO moves (though I see something about the data being thrown out)?
And what about Will-O-Wisp hitting 100% so far? Shouldn't it be expected to hit 85% of the time?
Got around to some confusion testing. I can't type very well (sliced up a finger), so I'll let you interpret the results yourself.
Quick legend: o means the attack succeeded after displaying the "x is confused" message. x means it attacked itself. b represents the Pokémon breaking out of confusion. The first block details all of my Spinda's confusions, the second all of foe meditite's, the third all of foe machop's, and the final all of my own rotom's. Red lines are excluded because the confusion never ended.
ob
ob
xb
oxb
xxoob
ob (battle end)
oooob
oxoob
xb
xob
xx (faint)
xb
xb
oxxb
x (faint)
ooob
xoxb
xb
xob
x (battle end)
Summary:
number of turns possible to attack self (all turns where confusion existed and the Pokémon did not break out of confusion)
0: 0
1: 5
2: 3
3: 3
4: 3
Average: 3.5 turns
Totals:
Attacked regularly: 20
Attacked self: 15
Broke out: 16
I'm a little disappointed at those 61 total results, but seeing as I've fucked up my finger pretty badly (damn you bagel giving away as I put pressure on a knife!) I can't really go much farther. The results are close enough that I'd like to assume that confusion is percent based, and that each result has an equal chance; and that obviously I had odd luck with the amount of successful attacks. The problem is that this sample is too small to confirm that.
I technically cut out 4 'attack self's and at least 3 break outs, but those lines didn't count as they did not have a break out so they didn't play out fully. Had I not done that, and should we assume that they all immediately broke out after I cut them off, the ratio would be 20-19-19.
Dealing with three-way odds is a tad tougher than hit-or-miss like confusion or accuracy. >_> Could make a fella crazy.
Quick legend: o means the attack succeeded after displaying the "x is confused" message. x means it attacked itself. b represents the Pokémon breaking out of confusion. The first block details all of my Spinda's confusions, the second all of foe meditite's, the third all of foe machop's, and the final all of my own rotom's. Red lines are excluded because the confusion never ended.
ob
ob
xb
oxb
xxoob
ob (battle end)
oooob
oxoob
xb
xob
xx (faint)
xb
xb
oxxb
x (faint)
ooob
xoxb
xb
xob
x (battle end)
Summary:
number of turns possible to attack self (all turns where confusion existed and the Pokémon did not break out of confusion)
0: 0
1: 5
2: 3
3: 3
4: 3
Average: 3.5 turns
Totals:
Attacked regularly: 20
Attacked self: 15
Broke out: 16
I'm a little disappointed at those 61 total results, but seeing as I've fucked up my finger pretty badly (damn you bagel giving away as I put pressure on a knife!) I can't really go much farther. The results are close enough that I'd like to assume that confusion is percent based, and that each result has an equal chance; and that obviously I had odd luck with the amount of successful attacks. The problem is that this sample is too small to confirm that.
I technically cut out 4 'attack self's and at least 3 break outs, but those lines didn't count as they did not have a break out so they didn't play out fully. Had I not done that, and should we assume that they all immediately broke out after I cut them off, the ratio would be 20-19-19.
Dealing with three-way odds is a tad tougher than hit-or-miss like confusion or accuracy. >_> Could make a fella crazy.
Try here.
Okay, there's something really weird about Seed Bomb. First turn- Seed Bomb on Salamence, Sp.Def lowers, Salamence uses Dragon Dance damage done was 32 when calced possible damage was 30-35 (233 SPA from lv 100 against 259 SpDef, 332 HP. Attack got STAB and was resisted 4x.
Second turn, Seed Flare does 64 damage (300 to 236). This is the equivalent of the target having TWO stages of Spdef lowered. Salamence DD'd again.
Third turn, salamence kills foe's Zigzagoon, takes life orb recoil, and is hit by Seed Flare- SpDef is lowered again, but foe Slowpoke uses psychic on Salamence making it impossible for me to correctly get the damage done.
Fourth turn- Salamence has -3 SpDef. I use Full Restore on Salamence. Seed flare does roughly 48% damage while it is supposed to only do up to 26%; Exact numbers are once more lost thanks to a slowpoke fucker. No SpDef loss, so I can check the numbers next time.
Fifth turn- Killed foe slowpoke with Shaymin, used full restore on Salamence.
Sixth turn- Seed Flare does 120 damage, only possible if Salamence has -5 or -6 Sdef stage.
Seven-nine turns- Magical Leaf does damage respective to -6 stage spdef.
I switched Mence out to remove stat changes and test something. Something I had failed to notice: When the effect activates...
"Dracorex's Special Defense harshly fell!"
Oops, lol. >_>
Conclusion: Seed Flare has a different code because it is a SHARP drop in SDef, not a regular one. -2 instead of -1. Which means it's now a much more attractive attack, to me...
Second turn, Seed Flare does 64 damage (300 to 236). This is the equivalent of the target having TWO stages of Spdef lowered. Salamence DD'd again.
Third turn, salamence kills foe's Zigzagoon, takes life orb recoil, and is hit by Seed Flare- SpDef is lowered again, but foe Slowpoke uses psychic on Salamence making it impossible for me to correctly get the damage done.
Fourth turn- Salamence has -3 SpDef. I use Full Restore on Salamence. Seed flare does roughly 48% damage while it is supposed to only do up to 26%; Exact numbers are once more lost thanks to a slowpoke fucker. No SpDef loss, so I can check the numbers next time.
Fifth turn- Killed foe slowpoke with Shaymin, used full restore on Salamence.
Sixth turn- Seed Flare does 120 damage, only possible if Salamence has -5 or -6 Sdef stage.
Seven-nine turns- Magical Leaf does damage respective to -6 stage spdef.
I switched Mence out to remove stat changes and test something. Something I had failed to notice: When the effect activates...
"Dracorex's Special Defense harshly fell!"
Oops, lol. >_>
Conclusion: Seed Flare has a different code because it is a SHARP drop in SDef, not a regular one. -2 instead of -1. Which means it's now a much more attractive attack, to me...
Thanks, interesting site. Is that information valid for D/P? It appears to be a RSE site or earlier.
Also, I think it's interesting that fissure apparently hits pokemon that are digging, but sheer cold etc. presumably don't...yet both have the same effect code. Weird things like that usually have separate effects, I thought. Unless it's something about ground attacks hitting underground things in general...has that ever been tested?
AWESOME, I'm so glad I wasn't nuts. :P Thanks for testing that!
Metalloid Research is actually a GSC site, as the name implies. But it seemed like a good place to start looking for OHKO move accuracy.
Good point. I'll test that out. Does Earthquake have an effect code?
wifiddle, your question should go in this topic:
http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=25804
Does Earthquake have an effect code?
Earthquake has an effect code. Supposedly it means "2x damage if the opponent is using DIG", but I'm not sure if that's based on testing or from the game's code.
http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=25804
Does Earthquake have an effect code?
Earthquake has an effect code. Supposedly it means "2x damage if the opponent is using DIG", but I'm not sure if that's based on testing or from the game's code.
Obi has a good point about the 2/3 increase in accuracy under Gravity conditions.
Let's see. If this is correct, then a move under Gravity conditions will have 5/3 of the original accuracy. This means that moves that have 60 accuracy or more will end up having 100% accuracy, while moves with less than 60 accuracy will not have 100% accuracy.
If Gravity is a 70% boost, then moves having 58 accuracy or less would have less than 100% accuracy. Moves having 59 or more accuracy will end up to 100% accuracy.
So my point is: we can use a move having 59 accuracy to see whether the boost is 2/3 or 70%. Unfortunately, such a move does not exist, to my knowledge.
However, we can test a 60 accuracy move to test whether Gravity increases its accuracy to 100%. I don't know if one exists either, but we could use Double Team or Sand-attack to help us with this.
A Pokemon having been hit by two Sand-attacks will have its accuracy reduced to 60% of the usual accuracy. In that case, using a 100 accuracy move under these conditions will be as if you're using a 60 accuracy move. (I'm not talking about moves that bypass the accuracy check, like Aerial Ace, but moves like Ice Beam whose accuracy is 100.) Use Gravity and the accuracy should go to 100% again.
If this test is made, then we can be sure that the increase in accuracy is 2/3 of the original accuracy at the very minimum.
Let's see. If this is correct, then a move under Gravity conditions will have 5/3 of the original accuracy. This means that moves that have 60 accuracy or more will end up having 100% accuracy, while moves with less than 60 accuracy will not have 100% accuracy.
If Gravity is a 70% boost, then moves having 58 accuracy or less would have less than 100% accuracy. Moves having 59 or more accuracy will end up to 100% accuracy.
So my point is: we can use a move having 59 accuracy to see whether the boost is 2/3 or 70%. Unfortunately, such a move does not exist, to my knowledge.
However, we can test a 60 accuracy move to test whether Gravity increases its accuracy to 100%. I don't know if one exists either, but we could use Double Team or Sand-attack to help us with this.
A Pokemon having been hit by two Sand-attacks will have its accuracy reduced to 60% of the usual accuracy. In that case, using a 100 accuracy move under these conditions will be as if you're using a 60 accuracy move. (I'm not talking about moves that bypass the accuracy check, like Aerial Ace, but moves like Ice Beam whose accuracy is 100.) Use Gravity and the accuracy should go to 100% again.
If this test is made, then we can be sure that the increase in accuracy is 2/3 of the original accuracy at the very minimum.
So my point is: we can use a move having 59 accuracy to see whether the boost is 2/3 or 70%. Unfortunately, such a move does not exist, to my knowledge.
If we can figure out how the accuracy of OHKO moves is determined, and if the evade drop from Gravity effects OHKO moves, this can be done.
If we can figure out how the accuracy of OHKO moves is determined, and if the evade drop from Gravity effects OHKO moves, this can be done.
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