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DP Research Thread #3 ("Newer")

Discussion in 'Stark Mountain' started by david stone, Aug 6, 2007.

  1. david stone

    david stone Fast-moving, smart, sexy and alarming.
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    The other one is far too large and intimidating, so this thread will attempt to be more user-friendly (and it doesn't have 20 pages of posts).

    Hello, and welcome to the new (and possibly final) DP research thread! We need your help testing this stuff out, so don't be intimidated. Most of the things still in this thread will take about a minute to test. Even the stuff that requires a lot of testing can still be accomplished by a couple of guys testing while they wait for their Pop Tarts to finish in the toaster! A few people submitting trials of 15 or so hits at a time can really add up.

    However, that doesn't mean you just post anything here. Questions about breeding chains and the like belong in the "Ask a Simple Question" thread. This thread is reserved for questions about game mechanics.

    Here's a link to the old threads, in case you want to double-check something that was posted there, since I didn't copy over how they proved anything, just the findings.

    DP Research Thread #2 ("New")
    DP Research Thread #1 ("Old")



    DP Resource Thread: has valuable information for testing, such as the damage formula.


    Abilities: Questions and answers on abilities in DP
    Items: Questions and answers on items in DP
    Moves: Questions and answers on moves in DP
  2. david stone

    david stone Fast-moving, smart, sexy and alarming.
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    ABILITIES

    http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=21511

    Check this thread for what we currently know first. If you are looking for new abilities, the first post should have most of them. If you are looking for changes to old abilities, hit Ctrl+F, and search for ***.

    Anticipation: Does it inform this Pokemon of super-effective Judgment or Weather Ball? Is Counter considered a Fighting attack, is Metal Burst considered a Steel attack, and is Mirror Coat considered a Psychic attack? How about Beat Up, Doom Desire, and Future Sight? Can you get the trait through Trace, Skill Swap, or Role Play and still have it warn you?

    How to test: Use Sunny Day on a Castform with Weather Ball but no other move that's SE on Wormadam. Switch in Wormadam.

    Give Arceus a plate that makes Judgment Super Effective on Wormadam (for instance, Flame Plate). Make sure Arceus has no other moves SE on Wormadam. Switch in Wormadam.

    Send out a Pokemon with Mirror Coat, but no attacks that hit Croagunk / Toxicroak super effective. Switch in Croagunk / Toxicroak.

    Send out a Pokemon with Future Sight, but no attacks that hit Croagunk / Toxicroak super effective. Switch in Croagunk / Toxicroak.

    How to test Beat Up, Doom Desire, Counter, and Metal Burst is pending further testing of Anticipate's interaction with Skill Swap / Roll Play / Trace.

    Switch in Porygon2 with Trace on a Croagunk / Toxicroak with a Fighting move.

    Use Roll Play on Anticipation Pokemon with an SE move, for instance, Stantler Roll Plays a Toxicroak with a Fighting move.

    Use Skill Swap on Anticipation Pokemon with an SE move, for instance, Blissey uses Skill Swap on Toxicroak with a Fighting move.

    Clear Body: How does Unaware work with Clear Body?

    How to test: Get a Pokemon with Clear Body to get a stat up that isn't in Speed. Bring in a Pokemon with Unaware. Example: Regirock used Curse. Trainer switched in Bidoof. Bidoof used physical attack that hits Regirock. Report damage.

    Download: What happens if the Defense and Special Defense are equal?

    How to test: Switch in a Download Pokemon on something with equal Defense and Special Defense multiple times. If the same Pokemon ever gives a Defense and a Special Defense boost, it's random.

    Flower Gift: What is the effect of two Pokemon with Flower Gift out at the same time on the same team? Is it one bonus, added bonuses, or multiplied bonuses?

    How to test: Have a faster Cherrim use Sunny Day, then have a slower Cherrim use like 3 attacks on ally Cherrim. Report the damage, the defending Cherrim's Defense / Special Defense and the attacker's Attack / Special Attack (depending on what type of attack you smacked it with).

    Hustle: Does Hustle affect the Accuracy of Seismic Toss, Night Shade, Endeavor, or Dragon Rage?

    Magic Guard: Does it block the "recoil" of an enemy's Jaboca / Rowap Berry?

    How to test: Use a physical attack on a Pokemon with a Jaboca Berry, or use a Special Attack on a Pokemon with Rowap Berry.

    Pickup: The new changes have been documented at http://members.shaw.ca/teamrocketelite/PickupTable.html. Needs additional confirmation, but not a priority since there are only three changes.

    Poison Heal: A Poisoned Pokemon with Poison Heal still takes damage outside of battle.

    Quick Feet: Does Quick Feet work the turn Freeze and Sleep end? Does Quick Feet boost your Speed under Freeze or Confusion?

    Reckless: Does Reckless boost the damage from Struggle?

    Rock Head: Does it block the damage caused by an opponent holding a Jaboca or Rowap Berry?

    How to test: Get a Pokemon with Rock Head. Use a physical attack on a Pokemon with a Jaboca Berry, or use a Special Attack on a Pokemon with Rowap Berry.

    Does Rock Head block the crash and miss damage from Jump Kick / Hi Jump Kick (wondering because of Reckless)?

    Shield Dust: I know it blocks stuff like Ice Beam's chance to Freeze and Fake Out's flinch, but does it also block stuff like Charge Beam's chance to raise Special Attack, or Silver Wind's chance to boost all stats (stuff that doesn't affect the Shield Dust Pokemon)?

    Slow Start: Slow Start can be Skill Swapped away in English versions of DP and have the effect be removed, but not Japanese (Skill Swap works, but the effects remain on Regigigas).

    Sticky Hold: If you Fling an item at a Pokemon that has Sticky Hold (and who is itemless), would it hold onto the item?

    If a Pokémon with Sticky Hold Flings an item, do they lose it, or does it yo-yo back to them?

    Synchronize: Is not activated by Flame Orb, Toxic Orb, or Toxic Spikes. Is not activated by any self-induced status like Rest.

    Technician: Does it boost Struggle?

    WonderGuard: Do any moves, aside from Fire Fang, always hit through WonderGuard? Trace Gardevoir + Porygon2 would likely be the best way to test this.

    Can Counter, Mirror Coat, Metal Burst, Sheer Cold, Fissure, or any other non-regular damage move hit through Wonder Guard if the type would render it super-effective? I think Night Shade and presumably Dragon Rage do.
  3. david stone

    david stone Fast-moving, smart, sexy and alarming.
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    ITEMS:

    http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=21848

    Go here first for most of the item information. Most of the new items are in the first post. If you are looking for changes to old items, hit Ctrl+F and search for ***.

    Focus Sash: Does Focus Sash stop you from OHKOing yourself in your confusion, or OHKOing yourself from recoil damage?

    Grip Claw: Partial trapping (Bind, Clamp, Wrap, etc.) moves apparently always last 5 turns with this, and then on the 6th turn, prevent the target from switching but does no damage.

    King's Rock: What moves aren't given a chance to flinch? Is it all moves that can already flinch or all moves with a secondary effect (or something else?)? Do multi-hit moves like Icicle Spear and Fury Swipes have multiple chances to activate? Beat Up and Triple Kick do.

    Life Orb: Does the recoil trigger on Endeavor?

    Metronome: Does Metronome increase the damage of moves selected through other moves (for instance, using Sleep Talk)? Does it increase if it selects the same move twice, (Sleep Talk->Rock Slide, Sleep Talk->Rock Slide), or can it pick anything and still ramp up (Sleep Talk->Earthquake, Sleep Talk->Rock Slide)?

    Micle Berry: Boosts Accuracy. How many stages does it boost?

    How to test: Activate a Micle Berry. Use Recycle. Continue Recycling until Micle Berry doesn't boost Accuracy any more. If it boosts 6 times, the boost is +1; if it boosts 3 times, the boost is +2.

    Power Ankle / Band / Belt / Lens / Waist / Wrist: In addition to the EVs normally gained from defeating an opponent, the holder will also gain 4 EVs in the stat the Power Item corresponds to (Waist: HP, Wrist: Attack, Belt: Defense, Lens: Special Attack, Band: Special Defense, Ankle: Speed). The holder's speed is also reduced 50%. Pokerus multiplies the final amount of EVs gained by two, so it includes this boost.

    Shell Bell: What doesn't activate it? I know Doom Desire, Future Sight, and any other end-of-turn damage does not, but other than that...

    Shoal Salt: Contrary to what Serebii says about it, Shoal Salt does NOT recover any HP in battle. It still does absolutely nothing.
  4. david stone

    david stone Fast-moving, smart, sexy and alarming.
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    MOVES:

    http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=21870

    Camouflage: What you get in DP WiFi / Union Room

    Building - Normal
    Road / Desert - Ground
    Grass / Tall Grass - Grass
    Pond / Ocean - Water
    Cave / Mountain - Rock
    Snow - Ice

    What you get from the terrains in PBR

    Gateway - Water
    Main Street - Normal
    Waterfall - Grass
    Neon - Normal
    Crystal - Rock
    Sunny Park - Grass
    Magma - Rock
    Sunset - Ground
    Courtyard - Normal
    Stargazer - Rock

    Embargo: If a Pokemon is under the effects of Embargo and uses Pluck / Bug Bite, does it still immediately activate the berry, or is the berry just destroyed?

    Encore: Lasts 4-8 turns. Is this an even distribution chance (as in 4, 5, 6, 7, and 8 turns all have equal probabilities)?

    How to test: Use Encore, count how long it lasts. At least 15 trials should be good.

    Heal Block: Does this result in Wish healing:

    Fast Pokemon uses Wish
    Slow Pokemon uses Heal Block
    Fast Pokemon switches out
    Slow Pokemon uses a move that isn't Heal Block

    Does Heal Block prevent you from using Aqua Ring and Ingrain, or does it just block their healing for 5 turns?

    Imprison: If I have a Smeargle that knows Imprison, Hyper Beam, Transform, and Fly, and I use Imprison, then Transform into a Geodude with Magnitude, Tackle, Hidden Power Poison, and Explosion, and my opponent then switches into a Pidgey with Tackle, Hidden Power Poison, Hyper Beam, and Fly, can Pidgey...

    a) not use Hyper Beam and Fly, but can use Tackle and Hidden Power

    b) not use Tackle and Hidden Power, but can use Hyper Beam and Fly

    c) not use anything, or

    d) use anything

    Basically, if you get new moves, are the new moves Imprisoned? Another way to test is ti Imprison, use Sketch or Mimic, and then see if the Sketched / Mimicked move is Imprisoned and if Sketch / Mimic is Imprisoned.

    Ingrain: What happens if you U-Turn while under the effects of Ingrain?

    Lucky Chant: Is Lucky Chant lost by switching?

    Magic Coat: Can you Magic Coat Heal Block?

    Mimic: What can't it select?

    Mist: Does it block Haze, Heart Swap, Power Swap, or Intimidate?

    Nature Power: Has some new moves chosen for the various arenas in DP:

    Road / Desert = Earthquake
    Building = Tri Attack
    Grass / Tall grass = Seed Bomb
    Cave / Mountain = Rock Slide
    Snow = Blizzard
    Pond / Ocean = Hydro Pump

    Note that in WiFi / link battles, only one attack can be chosen, and that's Tri Attack.

    In PBR:

    Gateway - Hydro Pump
    Main Street - Tri Attack
    Waterfall - Seed Bomb
    Neon - Tri Attack
    Crystal - Rock Slide
    Sunny Park - Seed Bomb
    Magma - Rock Slide
    Sunset - Earthquake
    Courtyard - Tri Attack
    Stargazer - Rock Slide

    Pursuit: Does Pursuit against a faster U-Turner still have a chance to hurt itself in its confusion (assuming the Pursuiter is Confused, of course)?

    If a Pokemon holding a Choice Band / Choice Glasses / Choice Scarf uses Pursuit against a Pokemon switching out (and ONLY against a Pokemon switching out), they can no longer reselect a different move next turn, even if this happens on the Choice item holder's first turn in battle. They can change moves in the Japanese version of DP, but in cross-language battles, the English version's settings override it.

    Safeguard: Does Safeguard prevent a Pokemon from being Poisoned by Toxic Spikes? If Safeguard is up and a grounded Poison type switches in, does it still absorb Toxic Spikes?

    Secret Power:
    Road / Desert = Lowers Accuracy 1 stage
    Building = Paralyzes
    Grass / Tall grass = Sleep
    Cave / Mountain = Flinches
    Snow = Freezes
    Pond / Ocean = Lowers Attack 1 stage

    Note that in WiFi / link battles, the only available stage is Building, so you only can Paralyze with Secret Power there.

    Secret Power in Battle Revolution:

    Gateway - Lowers Attack
    Main Street - Paralyze
    Waterfall - Sleep
    Neon - Paralyze
    Crystal - Flinch
    Sunny Park - Sleep
    Magma - Flinch
    Sunset - Lowers Accuracy
    Courtyard - Paralyze
    Stargazer - Flinch

    Substitute: Does Heal Block hit through Substitute?

    Tickle: No longer hits through Substitutes.

    Toxic Spikes: Does Safeguard prevent a Pokemon from being Poisoned by Toxic Spikes? If Safeguard is up and a grounded Poison type switches in, does it still absorb Toxic Spikes? Does a grounded Poison that is Baton Passed a Substitute still absorb Toxic Spikes?

    Twineedle: Contrary to popular belief, it cannot Poison Steel types.


    Pokemon cannot die to Poison outside of battle. If they are taken to 1 HP and are supposed to receive more walking damage from Poison, they are cured of Poison and receive a message saying so.
  5. david stone

    david stone Fast-moving, smart, sexy and alarming.
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    OK, I'm working on transferring all the more recent additions to the research thread over here.

    /edit: Actually, it's 3:02 right now, so I'm kind of tired. I'm going to go search through the old thread tomorrow (or rather, later today) and make sure everything is up-to-date, as well as carry over some of the more recent things. Feel free to copy anything of interest in the old thread.

    I'm also going to update the the first post with a sort of "guide" to researching.
  6. Blizzard1

    Blizzard1

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    Is there any possibility for updating the move descriptions? Like, minimize still claims Extrasensory does double damage against it.
  7. ΩDonut

    ΩDonut don't glaze me bro
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    Preliminary tests show that Download, when facing a Pokemon with identical Defense\SpDef, will choose to boost whichever attacking stat is higher. However, this is extremely difficult to test in-game because it requires one to encounter an Adamant Porygon with a high Attack IV and a low SpAttk IV.

    I also reported earlier that Beat Up ignores Wonder Guard, no matter who's got it.

    EDIT: Assist's behavior in PBR needs to be tested. In Advance and DP, Assist can call upon the moves of fainted teammates. In Colosseum\XD, however, Assist cannot. Since Colosseum and PBR are both Genius Sonority products, it is worth a test.
  8. CasMat

    CasMat

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    About all of the Gravity, accuracy boost testing...

    59% accuracy can be reached (if accuracy rounds up).... Compoundeyes + Wide Lens + one Sand Attack + Supersonic (55%) and you are at 58.9875% accuracy if I did the math right...
  9. Izkuru

    Izkuru

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    I'm doing some preliminary tests of the flinch rate of Razor Fang. I'm using:

    Level 100 Gallade @ Razor Fang [Using False Swipe]
    vs.
    Level 2 Starly

    After 64 uses of False Swipe, 0/64 cause the Starly to flinch.

    However, the first hit of the second battle caused a flinch... but the next 63 resulted in no flinches. So:
    1/64 cause the Starly to flinch.
    This leads me to believe three possibilities:
    • That False Swipe is unaffected by Razor Fang.
    • That Razor Fang doesn't affect moves with an additional effect.
    • That Razor Fang will only cause a possible flinch if the move will actually cause damage. This means that False Swiping something at 1HP will never cause a flinch. (Just a hunch).
    Though, since I was actually able to get a flinch, the first two can't be true >_>;

    I have a hunch that King's Rock acts the same way with what it doesn't effect.

    I know that a lot more testing needs to be done, and I plan on it. Working on the next battle now.

    Who knows, maybe my RNG is going on the fritz on me >_>;

    EDIT: Scratch that, on the first attack in the second battle (this time, a level 3 starly), it flinched.. I think my RNG is borked X_x)
    EDIT: Guess this means using False Swipe on low-level Bidoofs and Starlys won't work for testing Razor Fang flinch rate >_>; *Goes to find some Steelix or something
  10. Mekkah

    Mekkah
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    I'm pretty sure it was confirmed that confusion can be Baton Passed whereas Toxic's "bad poison count" couldn't (it did in NetBattle). Neither are on the list.
  11. yamipoli

    yamipoli the only person more obsessive than jumpman
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    Pain split works fine on magic guard clefable.

    Razor Fang: exact same as king's rock

    Triplekick: each attack gives you another chance to activate flinch from king's rock

    beatup: works on shedinja AND porygon w/ traced wonderguard. it's untyped damage

    recycle: knockoff / trick does NOT let you recycle the item.

    unburden: is activated by knockoff. drifloon with 141 speed vs a 236 ninetales with unburden went first.

    grip claw: makes them trapped for 5 turns of damage and one additional turn of trapping but not damaged (we tested about 8 times)
  12. X-Act

    X-Act np: Biffy Clyro - Shock Shock
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    About Technician, every test Peterko has done for it for the damage formula suggests that it boosts _every_ move whose move power is 60 or less. That includes variable move-power moves like Revenge (Peterko confirmed it boosts when it is 60 power, and doesn't boost when it is 120), Hidden Power (OmegaDonut showed that Technician boosts Hidden Power when its base power is 60 or less, but not if it is more than 60). So I have every reason to believe the guy reporting that Natural Gift is also boosted by Technician when the berry makes its base power 60.
  13. Peterko

    Peterko Never give up!
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    1HKO moves affected by levels test

    lv. 100 camerupt with fissure

    vs lv.5 target: 20/20 hit
    vs lv.50 target: 26/32 hit = 81.25%
    vs lv.30 target: 40/40 hit

    my theory was (user´s level/target´s level rounded down) x 30, so if user´s level would be lower than target´s it would result in 0 accuracy, but my second test wasn´t 60%...it was around 80%...so I thought that it could be

    1HKO move accuracy = (user´s level - target´s level) + 30

    well to prove this theory, against a lv. 30 target the accuracy should be 100% = (100-30) + 30 and it worked

    even if this formula works, I don´t know how to make a lower level attacker miss everytime with it...

    could someone find how this worked in GSC/advance? maybe it was the same




    @X-Act: you wrote about accuracy/evasion on the last page of the previous research topic, my question is...how does everything work with items?

    example: target uses double team, is equipped with a brightpowder (10%) and its ability is sand veil (20%) and sandstorm is up, then it uses sand attack on user, which attacks

    is total accuracy = move power acc. * user´s accuracy * target´s evasion ?


    EDIT1: if the formula I wrote above works then we are able to get 59 accuracy to test gravity, just use a lv. 100 1hko user against a lv.71 target


    EDIT2:
    this one´s correct...I´m so sorry that I haven´t posted this although I ´ve tested it some time ago, you can´t flinch if you do zero damage (marowak false swiping a 1hp bidoof)...CHs are possible though
  14. Blizzard1

    Blizzard1

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    So...sand tomb would be guaranteed to damage and trap for five turns, instead of just 2-5, and then the enemy couldn't switch the last turn, but there would be any message or damage? o_O
  15. phatJacob07

    phatJacob07

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    We tested it with Whirlpool/Fire Spin, I'm not sure of the effects on Sand Tomb.
  16. Blizzard1

    Blizzard1

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    Well yeah, my point was just I thought it weird...the enemy just can't switch out on the last turn, no message is given, no damage, nothing? All the item does is guarantee max damage length, and add one weird locked turn?

    *edit* From the move thread:
    Notice a problem there? >_> I'm 99% sure it should be burn, poison, or paralysis, and sleep shouldn't be there at all.
  17. X-Act

    X-Act np: Biffy Clyro - Shock Shock
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    You just multiply the ability/item accuracy at the end in that case. So for Compoundeyes, you multiply by 1.3 at the end, and for Sand Veil, you multiply by 0.8 at the end.

    Your formula for OHKO moves is intriguing. I think someone else inadvertedly tested OHKO moves with different levels. I might search for that data too to see if it conforms with your accuracy formula.
  18. X-Act

    X-Act np: Biffy Clyro - Shock Shock
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    Interesting test. Well, I can conclude this. You will get the "Pokemon is confused!" message between 1 and 4 times, before you snap out of confusion.

    A confused Pokemon seems to attack itself 50% of the time, but the amount of tries here is too low to confirm this.

    I can contribute this. My Empoleon was up against a Golbat in a cave, and they had exactly the same speed. This happened:

    Turn 1:
    Golbat used Confuse Ray! Empoleon became confused!
    Empoleon is confused! It hurt itself in its confusion!

    Turn 2:
    Empoleon snapped out of confusion! Empoleon used Surf! Golbat fainted!

    Here, Empoleon snapped out of confusion immediately, so to speak, but he still had the "Empoleon is confused!" message once. I think that the "Pokemon is confused!" messages are the things that are actually counted, and not the number of turns, in order for a Pokemon to snap out of confusion.
  19. Blizzard1

    Blizzard1

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    Which brings up something I believe I already asked but haven't tested yet or seen tested: Can confusion last through sleep? How about attraction, for that matter? I assume rest heals bost confusion and attraction, but I'd be interested to know the interaction between the confusion timer and regular sleep (and, for instance, using snore while asleep...does confusion pop up again then even in the middle of sleep?).
  20. Forsety

    Forsety

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    You stay confused while your asleep, Rest does not cure confusion. I know this because I've confused multiple sleep talkers before.
  21. Death Phenomeno

    Death Phenomeno I'm polite so just for clarity, when I'm cross I
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    Switching into Toxic Spikes doesn't activate Synchronize; Umbreon would get poisoned but his opponent wouldn't, for example.
  22. Peterko

    Peterko Never give up!
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    ok I´ve tested lv. camerupt fissure against lv.71 clefairy using gravity

    now I got weird results:
    something like 4/8 hit (5/9?)
    -> it missed like 2/3 after switching back the revived clefairy
    -> 4/5 hit the turn after gravity was used

    so:
    1. does gravity ignore the 1hko level difference accuracy boost (or the other way round)?
    2. is gravity not working for the pokémon that switches in (wasn´t out when gravity was used)?
    3. or is my 1hko accuracy formula wrong?


    after that I tested LV. 100 fissure against LV.71 without gravity

    4/8 -> 7/16 -> 14/24 -> 18/32 -> 24/40

    so I got 60%, which is very near 59% = (user´s level - target´s level) + 30
  23. Familiar Trainer

    Familiar Trainer

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    I was always under the impression the attraction lasted until you switched out? That, or I'm the most unlucky person in the world, as not once in my entire Pokemon career have I ever seen a message like "Pokemon X fell out of love!" =(

    Out of curiosity I tested if you could have both Trick Room and Gravity up at the same time, and surprisingly you can.
  24. ΩDonut

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    Another thing to note about Baton Pass: it passes Yawn.
  25. Blizzard1

    Blizzard1

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    I was just wondering about the Yawn+BP thing. Presumably the yawn effect is lost if the user just switches or U-Turns out instead of remaining in battle the second turn? The move description post should perhaps mention that.

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