DP Research Thread #5 (Newest yet)

[TheMaskedNitpicker]

It has come to my attention that the mechanics of Torment have changed. In Diamond and Pearl, Torment could not prevent the execution of moves. According to a test done by imperfectluck, this has changed in Platinum. If possible, I would like confirmation.

So if you have Platinum, the best way to test this is to bring two Pokémon into a double battle with the faster Pokémon knowing Torment. On the first turn, have the faster Pokémon waste a turn (use a move, item, whatever) and have the slower Pokémon use a move. On the second turn, have the faster Pokémon use Torment on the slower Pokémon and have the slower Pokémon try to use the same move it used on the first turn. If the move can't be used due to Torment, it means the mechanics have changed.

 

[Jibaku]

So if you have Platinum, the best way to test this is to bring two Pokémon into a double battle with the faster Pokémon knowing Torment. On the first turn, have the faster Pokémon waste a turn (use a move, item, whatever) and have the slower Pokémon use a move. On the second turn, have the faster Pokémon use Torment on the slower Pokémon and have the slower Pokémon try to use the same move it used on the first turn. If the move can't be used due to Torment, it means the mechanics have changed.

Well I ran a test on an in game trainer. If mechanics differ on WiFi/Stadium, well I dunno. Tell me if I did my test incorrectly.

Darkrai & Giratina-O vs Ponyta & Rapidash

Darkrai used Dark Void
Both Rapidash and Ponyta dodged the move
Giratina-O used Dragon Pulse!
Rapidash fainted!
Ponyta used Flame Wheel on Darkrai!
(CH and Burn)

Darkrai used Torment on Giratina-O!
Giratina-O used Dragon Pulse!
Ponyta fainted!

Conclusion: Torment does not prevent the execution of the same move that was used before if it is used on the turn said move is selected.

 

[TheMaskedNitpicker]

Thanks, Jibaku. That's exactly the test I wanted. Now one of three things is true:

1. You made a mistake when testing.
2. imperfectluck made a mistake when testing.
3. The mechanics differ between in-game and Wi-Fi.

I'm guessing you didn't make a mistake, since I can see your process right there. I'd like to think that this mechanic would be the same for Wi-Fi. I asked imperfectluck to test again.

 

[BlueCookies]

Can anyone try testing to see if No Guard Dynamic Punch/Thunder in Rain/Blizzard in Hail still hit through protect in Platinum, and if they still hit through with the same accuracy as they did in D/P? I know on PBR, which came after D/P, none of those moves had any chance to hit through protect, but on D/P they could. Some have speculated that it was a glitch in PBR, some have said it was a glitch in D/P and PBR fixed it. I would like to know since in doubles this is a common occurance(as shown in Zerowings Showdown finals where he lost becuase of PBR's mechanics.

 

[TheMaskedNitpicker]

Can anyone try testing to see if No Guard Dynamic Punch/Thunder in Rain/Blizzard in Hail still hit through protect in Platinum, and if they still hit through with the same accuracy as they did in D/P? I know on PBR, which came after D/P, none of those moves had any chance to hit through protect, but on D/P they could. Some have speculated that it was a glitch in PBR, some have said it was a glitch in D/P and PBR fixed it. I would like to know since in doubles this is a common occurance(as shown in Zerowings Showdown finals where he lost becuase of PBR's mechanics.

I too would very much like to know how Platinum handles this mechanic. I'm guessing that it was a D/P bug that was fixed in PBR and will also be fixed in Platinum, but that's only conjecture.

 

[obi]

Keep in mind that Genius Sonority makes PBR, while GameFreak makes Platinum.

 

[TheMaskedNitpicker]

Keep in mind that Genius Sonority makes PBR, while GameFreak makes Platinum.

True, but I've seen so many strange mechanics (some that I might consider bugs) that are duplicated from D/P to PBR that I suspect GameFreak gave Genius Sonority the code for D/P and just let them handle the 3D interface. After all, reconstructing the entire battle system from scratch would be a very long reinventing-the-wheel process.

 

[obi]

Oh yeah I'm certain that's what's going on. I'm just saying that what Genius Sonority may have considered a bug, Game Freak calls a feature.

 

[Death Phenomeno]

…Which reminds me of something:

Was it ever tested/confirmed that Sableye and Spiritomb receive super effective damage from fighting type attacks in PBR? Because Sableye didn't in Colosseum/XD; it was just normal damage.

 

[imperfectluck]

Tested with Syberia on wifi. Torment, when used against a slower opponent locked into a move or using the same move as the previous turn, does NOT prevent the execution of said move. However, a Tormented Choice Item user, on the beginning of a new turn, will begin to use Struggle.

No Guard Dynamicpunch failed 8 times out of 8 against Protect on Platinum's wifi. Looks like Platinum fixed this.

 

[TheMaskedNitpicker]

Tested with Syberia on wifi. Torment, when used against a slower opponent locked into a move or using the same move as the previous turn, does NOT prevent the execution of said move. However, a Tormented Choice Item user, on the beginning of a new turn, will begin to use Struggle.

OK, that clears that up, then. Thanks!

…Which reminds me of something:

Was it ever tested/confirmed that Sableye and Spiritomb receive super effective damage from fighting type attacks in PBR? Because Sableye didn't in Colosseum/XD; it was just normal damage.

I'll test that now.

EDIT: Just tested. Fighting attacks deal super-effective damage to Spriritomb under the effects of Foresight.

 

[MagicMaster87]

Alright, I've got the results of the Gravity testing! I used a Clefairy with Gravity and Double Team, and a slower Oddish with Sleep Powder, and entered into a double battle. Clefairy used Gravity, then Double Team, and Oddish attacked the enemy, then used Sleep Powder. Whenever Clefairy woke up, it would use Gravity again if it had run out, else it would Cosmic Power. Oddish spent Clefairy's sleeping turns attacking the two opponents, and would Sleep Powder Clefairy whenever it woke up.

After about six or seven successful Sleep Powders, it missed (thank goodness it happened early in the test...), so it's definitely not just a -2 evasion drop, as Obi said that would result in 100% accuracy for Sleep Power.

I'll start working on the Confusion + Pursuit test now. I plan on finding that trainer that was mentioned, using one of the confusion + heal berries on the Pokemon, and then repeatedly using Pursuit until the Pokemon uses U-Turn, consuming another berry as needed.

 

[Jibaku]

Can anyone try testing to see if No Guard Dynamic Punch/Thunder in Rain/Blizzard in Hail still hit through protect in Platinum, and if they still hit through with the same accuracy as they did in D/P?

I had Giratina-O fire 16 Thunders at my own Pokemon when they used Protect in the Rain in an in game double battle. Tested against Kyogre, another Giratina, and Darkrai using Protect, to confirm if resistances play a role.

None out of the 16 Thunders hit, so we can assume Protect blocks Thunder in the Rain now.

 

[TheMaskedNitpicker]

The last test I'd like to see relating to hitting through Protect is Lock-On/Mind Reader. The reason I specifically want this tested is that it's possible that this hit-through-Protect mechanic was intentionally designed for Lock-On/Mind Reader, but also affected the other situations.

 

[twash]

Update

Wonder Guard list is looking a bit better now.

List so far:

Absorb
Acid
Aerial Ace - Mew on Spiritomb [B]NO[/B]
Aeroblast
Air Cutter
Air Slash - Skarmory on Spiritomb [B]NO[/B]
AncientPower
Aqua Jet - Sharpedo on Spiritomb [B]NO[/B]
Aqua Tail - Gyarados on Spiritomb [B]NO[/B]
Arm Thrust
Assurance
Astonish
Attack Order
Aura Sphere - Palkia on Gardevoir [B]NO[/B]
Aurora Beam - Octillery on Porygon2 [B]NO[/B]
Avalanche - Mew on Spiritomb [B]NO[/B]
Barrage
Beat Up - Already known [B]YES[/B]
Bide
Bind
Bite - Gyarados on Spiritomb [B]NO[/B]
Blast Burn
Blaze Kick
Blizzard
Body Slam
Bone Club
Bone Rush
Bonemerang
Bounce
Brave Bird - Swellow on Spiritomb [B]NO[/B]
Brick Break 
Brine - Mew on Spiritomb [B]NO[/B]
Bubble
BubbleBeam - Tentacruel on Spiritomb [B]NO[/B]
Bug Bite
Bug Buzz
Bullet Punch - Scizor on Spiritomb [B]NO[/B]
Bullet Seed - Mew on Spiritomb [B]NO[/B]
Charge Beam - Mew on Spiritomb [B]NO[/B]
Chatter
Clamp
Close Combat
Comet Punch
Confusion
Counter
Covet
Crabhammer
Cross Chop
Cross Poison
Crunch - Tyranitar on Spiritomb [B]NO[/B]
Crush Claw
Crush Grip
Cut
Dark Pulse – Mew on Spiritomb [B]NO[/B]
Dig - Mew on Spiritomb [B]NO[/B]
Discharge
Dive
Dizzy Punch
Doom Desire – Already known [B]YES[/B]
Double Hit
Double Kick
Double-Edge
DoubleSlap
Draco Meteor - Salamence on Porygon2 [B]NO[/B]
Dragon Claw - Groudon on Porygon2 [B]NO[/B]
Dragon Pulse - Mew on Spiritomb [B]NO[/B]
Dragon Rage - Gyarados on Spiritomb [B]NO[/B]
Dragon Rush
DragonBreath
Drain Punch
Dream Eater
Drill Peck
DynamicPunch
Earth Power - Heatran on Spiritomb [B]NO[/B]
Earthquake - Groudon on Porygon2 [B]NO[/B]
Egg Bomb
Ember
Endeavor
Energy Ball - Mew on Spiritomb [B]NO[/B]
Eruption
Explosion - Metagross on Porygon2 [B]NO[/B]
Extrasensory
ExtremeSpeed - Rayquaza on Porygon2 [B]NO[/B]
Façade
Faint Attack
Fake Out
False Swipe
Feint
Fire Blast - Salamence on Porygon2 [B]NO[/B]
Fire Fang – Already known [B]YES[/B]
Fire Punch - Groudon on Porygon2 [B]NO[/B]
Fire Spin
Fissure
Flail
Flame Wheel
Flamethrower - Mew on Spiritomb [B]NO[/B]
Flare Blitz
Flash Can[B]NO[/B]n - Mew on Spiritomb [B]NO[/B]
Fling
Fly
Focus Blast
Focus Punch
Force Palm
Frenzy Plant
Frustration
Fury Attack
Fury Cutter
Fury Swipes
Future Sight - Already known [B]YES[/B]
Giga Drain - Mew on Spiritomb [B]NO[/B]
Giga Impact
Grass Knot - Mew on Spiritomb [B]NO[/B]
Guillotine
Gunk Shot
Gust
Gyro Ball - Mew on Spiritomb [B]NO[/B]
Hammer Arm
Head Smash
Headbutt
Heat Wave
Hi Jump Kick - Medicham on Gardevoir [B]NO[/B]
Hidden Power
Hidden Power Electric - Tentacruel on Spiritomb [B]NO[/B]
Horn Attack
Horn Drill
Hydro Cannon
Hydro Pump - Salamence on Porygon2 [B]NO[/B]
Hyper Beam
Hyper Fang
Hyper Voice
Ice Ball
Ice Beam - Mew on Spiritomb [B]NO[/B]
Ice Fang - Gyarados on Spiritomb [B]NO[/B]
Ice Punch - Medicham on Porygon2 [B]NO[/B]
Ice Shard - Lapras on Spiritomb [B]NO[/B]
Icicle Spear
Icy Wind
Iron Head
Iron Tail - Mew on Spiritomb [B]NO[/B]
Judgment
Jump Kick
Karate Chop
Knock Off - Shuckle on Spiritomb [B]NO[/B]
Last Resort
Lava Plume - Camerput on Poryogn2 [B]NO[/B]
Leaf Blade
Leaf Storm - Wormadam-G on Porygon2 [B]NO[/B]
Leech Life
Lick
Low Kick
Luster Purge
Mach Punch
Magical Leaf
Magma Storm
Magnet Bomb
Magnitude - Camerput on Poryogn2 [B]NO[/B]
Mega Drain
Mega Kick
Mega Punch
Megahorn - Heracross on Spiritomb [B]NO[/B]
Metal Burst
Metal Claw
Meteor Mash - Metagross on Porygon2 [B]NO[/B]
Mirror Coat
Mirror Shot
Mist Ball
Mud Bomb
Mud Shot
Mud Slap
Muddy Water
Natural Gift
Needle Arm
Night Shade
Night Slash - Skarmory on Spiritomb [B]NO[/B]
Octozooka - Octillery on Porygon2 [B]NO[/B]
Ominous Wind
Outrage - Medicham on Porygon2 [B]NO[/B]
Overheat - Mew on Spiritomb [B]NO[/B]
Pay Day
Payback - Mew on Spiritomb [B]NO[/B]
Peck - Skarmory on Spiritomb [B]NO[/B]
Petal Dance
Pin Missle
Pluck - Mew on Spiritomb [B]NO[/B]
Poison Fang
Poison Jab - Mew on Spiritomb [B]NO[/B]
Poison Sting
Poison Tail
Pound
Powder Snow
Power Gem
Power Whip
Present
Psybeam - Octillery on Porygon2 [B]NO[/B]
Psychic - Wormadan-G on Porygon2 [B]NO[/B]
Psycho Boost - Deoxys-N on Porygon2 [B]NO[/B]
Psycho Cut - Medicham on Porygon2 [B]NO[/B]
Psywave
Punishment
Pursuit - Heracross on Spiritomb [B]NO[/B]
Quick Attack 
Rage
Rapid Spin
Razor Leaf
Razor Wind
Return
Revenge
Reversal
Roar of Time
Rock Blast
Rock Climb
Rock Slide - Camerupt on Porygon2 [B]NO[/B]
Rock Smash
Rock Throw
Rock Tomb - Mew on Spiritomb [B]NO[/B]
Rock Wrecker
Rolling Kick
Rollout
Sacred Fire
Sand Tomb
Scratch
Secret Power
Seed Bomb
Seed Flare
Seismic Toss
Selfdestruct
Shadow Ball - Mew on Spiritomb [B]NO[/B]
Shadow Claw - Mew on Spiritomb [B]NO[/B]
Shadow Force
Shadow Punch
Shadow Sneak
Sheer Cold
Shock Wave - Mew on Spiritomb [B]NO[/B]
Signal Beam
Silver Wind - Mew on Spiritomb [B]NO[/B]
Skull Bash
Sky Attack
Sky Uppercut
Slam
Slash
Sludge
Sludge Bomb - Mew on Spiritomb [B]NO[/B]
Smelling Salt
Smog
Snore
SolarBeam - Mew on Spiritomb [B]NO[/B]
Sonicboom
Spark
Spacial Rend - Palkia on Porygon2 [B]NO[/B]
Spike Cannon
Spit Up
Steel Wing - Mew on Spiritomb [B]NO[/B]
Stomp
Stone Edge - Mew on Spiritomb [B]NO[/B]
Strength
Struggle - Already known [B]YES[/B]
Submission
Sucker Punch
Superpower
Super Fang
Surf - Tentacruel on Spiritomb [B]NO[/B]
Swift
Tackle
Take Down
Thief - Mew on Spiritomb [B]NO[/B]
Thrash
Thunder - Deoxys-N on Porygon2 [B]NO[/B]
Thunder Fang
Thunder Shock
Thunderbolt - Mew on Spiritomb [B]NO[/B]
ThunderPunch - Medicham on Porygon2 [B]NO[/B]
Tri Attack
Triple Kick
Trump Card
Twineddle
Twister
Uproar
U-Turn - Mew on Spiritomb [B]NO[/B]
Vacuum Wave
Vicegrip
Vine Whip
Vital Throw
Volt Tackle
Wake-Up Slap
Water Gun
Water Pulse - Lapras on Spiritomb [B]NO[/B]
Water Spout
Waterfall - Gyarados on Spiritomb [B]NO[/B]
Weather Ball
Whirlpool
Wing Attack
Wood Hammer
Wrap
Wring Out
X-Scissor - Mew on Spiritomb [B]NO[/B]
Zap Cannon
Zen Headbutt

 

[Veedrock]

Sorry to question you Twash but something sticks out at me.

Quick Attack - Pachirisu on Spiritomb NO

Why would you try a normal attack on a ghost? Does the Wonderguard message pop up or what? I'm confused =S

 

[twash]

That's my bad, I didn't mean to test Fighting / Psychic / Normal moves yet. The twins I fight to do the test use Pachirisu, and Quick Attack, so I just scribbled it down without thinking. Nice catch.

 

[kd24]

does blizzard have a small chance of missing in hail or will it never miss (exception being protect / detect of course which its 30% to hit iirc). i thought it was said before that it is NOT a 100% chance but i would like some confirmation.

 

[Syberia]

In Platinum it will never hit through Protect/Detect. The "small chance" of missing that it has on Shoddy is like .4%, so you'd have to test somewhere on the order of 1,000 Blizzards to figure it out or not.

 

[obi]

Blizzard has Swift-accuracy in Hail.

 

[Elevator Music]

Forgive me for asking, but I was playing FR/LG yesterday and was hit by a Pursuit on the switch, and before I could reselect the original pokemon I had chose to switch to was sent out.

Has this changed in D/P(/Pt)? AKA after Pursuit kills a switching pokemon do you get to reselect what gets sent out?

Sorry if this has already been answered somewhere (though I skimmed all the old threads and didn't find anything on it!)

 

[Jibaku]

AKA after Pursuit kills a switching pokemon do you get to reselect what gets sent out?

Nope. This was tested while I was testing for the acid weather.
Shoddy iirc has it incorrectly.

 

[CardsOfTheHeart]

Forgive me for asking, but I was playing FR/LG yesterday and was hit by a Pursuit on the switch, and before I could reselect the original pokemon I had chose to switch to was sent out.

Has this changed in D/P(/Pt)? AKA after Pursuit kills a switching pokemon do you get to reselect what gets sent out?

Sorry if this has already been answered somewhere (though I skimmed all the old threads and didn't find anything on it!)

I don't know about Platinum, but I can tell you that that didn't change in D/P. (Damn Roark and his damn Cranidos... XD)

EDIT: Beaten by the Platinum answer. (Damn Jibaku... XD)

 

[obi]

That's interesting. When I asked that same question during DP, the answer then was that Shoddy has it correct and you must re-select a switch if Pursuit faints the Pokemon.

Is this a Pt change or were they just mistaken about DP mechanics?

 

[CardsOfTheHeart]

I don't know if Wi-Fi is different than ingame in this respect, but in relation to ingame mechanics they were definitely mistaken.

I should know because I just recently replaced my lost DS and restarted my Pearl file. In my gym battle with Roark, I intended to switch Geodude out of Cranidos for Monferno, but Cranidos KO'd with Pursuit. Then Monferno immediately switched in without a prompt to choose a Pokemon.