DP Shedinja .

http://www.smogon.com/dp/pokemon/shedinja

Hey, i'm trying to tone down the amount I write for analysises so this should be pretty quick. If there is any credit due, it goes to Earthworm for showing me how viable Baton Pass is on Shedinja.

[SET]
name: Baton Pass
move 1: Baton Pass
move 2: Toxic / Will-o-Wisp
move 3: Heal Block
move 4: Shadow Sneak / X-Scissor
item: Focus Sash
nature: Jolly
evs: 252 Atk / 252 Spe / 4 Def

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>Baton Pass, even with nothing to pass, is a viable move on Shedinja as it allows it to scout for counters, and then immediately follow up with a slower switch-in, giving you the more favourable match up.</p>

<p>Without Swords Dance to boost Shedinja's barely passable attack stat, Toxic is its best way of dealing damage outside of any entry hazards caused by Shedinja's knack for forcing switches. Heal Block in conjuction with Toxic will make sure your opponent does not simply stall you out of PP by resting off any damage accumulated by Toxic.</p>

<p>However, Poison or Steel-type pokemon, as well as those with the Immunity ability, will be unaffected by Toxic, effectively stopping Shedinja cold. With Baton Pass, Shedinja can immediately retreat and bring in a suitable counter for free, Dugtrio and Magnezone deserving special mention. This pair can come in handy as Magnezone can trap and kill most Steel-types, while Dugtrio's STAB Earthquake hits Poison and Steel-types for super effective damage.</p>

<p>Will-o-Wisp is an option for the aforementioned Steel and Poison-types but the process will be much longer and more arduous as a burn's damage is constant. However any offensive move, particularly Shadow Sneak or X-Scissor may be used in its place if you are afraid of Taunt. Although any move, even specialised Hidden Powers can be used to counter specific Taunters (such as Hidden Power Electric for Gyarados).</p>

--

[SET]
name: Swords Dance
move 1: Swords Dance
move 2: Toxic / Will-o-Wisp
move 3: X-Scissor
move 4: Shadow Sneak
item: Focus Sash
nature: Adamant
evs: 252 Atk / 252 Spe / 4 Def

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>Taking advatange of Shedinja's only passable stat, Attack, this set aims to increase it to higher levels courtesy of Swords Dance. Thanks to Shedinja's variety of immunities and its knack for forcing switches, it is more than likely you will be able to at least raise your attack once before switching out. Shadow Sneak and X-Scissor are STAB moves chosen for priority purposes and high base power, respectively.</p>

<p>Due to Shedinja's limited movepool, a status move, either Toxic or Will-o-Wisp makes an appearance to cripple any incoming pokemon that might be carrying a super effective attack. Toxic is generally the superior move against walls that carry a move capable of swatting Shedinja while Will-o-Wisp can effectively neuter any physical threat including what is arguably, Shedinja's greatest threat; Pursuit-users such as Metagross and Scizor.</p>

---

[Counters]

<p>Let’s go through the complete list of everything that can kill Shedinja.</p>

<p>Fire/ Flying / Dark / Ghost / Rock moves, non-Fighting / Normal attacks from a Mold Breaker Pokémon, Poison, Burn, Leech Seed, Confusion damage, Sandstorm, Hail, Spikes / Stealth Rock, Nightmare, Darkrai’s Bad Dreams, Life Orb recoil, Double-Edge recoil, Struggle, Struggle recoil, Destiny Bond, Perish Song, Aftermath, Rough Skin, Future Sight / Doom Desire, Ghost-type Curse, Jaboca/Rowap Berry recoil, and absorbing health against a Pokémon with Liquid Ooze.</p>

<p>In OU-level play, Heatran can threaten Shedinja with a super effective fire attack while resisting both of Shedinja's STAB moves and absorbing Toxic and Will-o-Wisp. Skarmory can also come in on ease, threaten with a flying attack (Brave Bird or Drill Peck) or simply setting up Spikes or Stealth Rock forbidding Shedinja from coming back in. Finally, Tyranitar can switch in on support moves like Heal Block and Swords Dance but will be troubled by either Will-o-Wisp, Toxic or X-Scissor. Also, as long as Shedinja doesn't Baton Pass away during the turn Sandstream activates, it will instantly faint regardless of a Focus Sash.</p>

<p>In Uber-level play, Darkrai, Groudon and Giratina are the most threatening pokemon to any Shedinja-user. Darkrai can come in freely on a Shadow Sneak or support move, then immediately threaten with Dark Void and it's unique trait, Bad Dreams. Groudon's high Defense and Speed (in proportion to Shedinja's at least) allows it to threaten with Fire Punch or Toxic, while setting up Stealth Rock preventing from Shedinja coming back in. Giratina, threatens Shedinja by combining a status effect in Will-o-Wisp as well as sky-high defensive prowess. Incidentally, Giratina can also use Rest to alleviate it of any status condition (barring a Heal Block) while simultaneously blocking Rapid Spin if any entry hazards are on the field.</p>

<p>Anything with Pursuit is an automatic death sentence for Shedinja, unless it has a Substitute Baton Passed to it to protect itself. In fact, this is a useful tactic for it to protect itself from status and Leech Seed as well.</p>

---

[EVs]

<p>If Shedinja is not running any offensive moves and you happen to have a pokemon that can pass along substitutes on your team, placing 252 EVs in either defensive stat is an option worth considering since it effectively gives you an "extra life" as well as it protects you from status and pseudo-status like Toxic and Leech Seed.</p>

---

If there's anything redundent or unnecessary in the Set Comments, please tell me as, even I think it's bloated enough as is and won't fit in too well with the others sets.

Also, just checking out for typoes, spelling errors, mistakes in the SCMS formatting would be much appreciated.

Thanks. Nitpick away!
 

JabbaTheGriffin

Stormblessed
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While a dry Baton Passer may sound useless in theory, however in this case Baton Pass allows Shedinja to scout for counters, immediately following up with your own switch-in.
You have to drop a word in this sentence. Either While or however will do just fine.

Without Swords Dance to boost Shedinja's barely passable attack stats, Toxic and Heal Block are its best ways in dealing damage alongside any entry hazards as Shedinja generally forces a lot of switches.
-s on the end of stats, since you only boost one stat with swords dance :P

tbqh though I don't like a bit of the way the paragraph comes across. I'd probably word it like such:

"Without Swords Dance to boost Shedinja's barely passable attack stat, Toxic is its best way of dealing damage outside entry hazard damage caused by Shedinja's knack for forcing switches. Heal Block boosts the wall-breaking power of Toxic while guaranteeing your opponent does not simply stall you out of PP by resting off the damage accumulated by Toxic."

In the last paragraph there's an extra aforementioned and process is spelled incorrectly. Hope this helped :)
 

Sunday

God Bless Nintys Incompetence :*)
is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a CAP Contributor Alumnus
Paragraph 2, recommend one "c"

"It is thus reccommended that such aforementioned trappers"

I'll look for some more later.

EDIT: Spellcheck also doesn't like
particuarlly - should be particularly
elimated - Typo, eliminated.
 

Lee

@ Thick Club
is a Top Team Rater Alumnusis a Community Leader Alumnus
^Shedinja can Baton Pass if he evolves at the correct level.

Posting simply to say that I love the set and look forward to giving it a go. If I was to be a complete pedant, I would rather move those 252 Atk EVs over into Def or SpD. With no offensive moves the Atk EV's will never be of any use, but if you were to Baton Pass a Subsitute to Shedinja he could theoretically make use of those defensive EVs. OF course, if you don't have a SubPasser on your team then it's a moot point, but I felt it was worth bringing up because passing a Sub to Shedinja is always worth considering, especially when he can Baton Pass that Sub away when confronted by a counter.
 
I thought nincada didn't learn baton pass at all, or does letting it evolve into jask at the exact level jask learns it get you a shedinja with it?
 
You shouldn't use ability: tags if the pokemon only has one option of ability.

while guaranteeing your opponent
while making sure your opponent sounds better

the Immunity ability, will always be unaffected by Toxic, effectively stopping Shedinja cold

For the record, Shedinja can Baton Pass; it was my research on the subject that got that move enabled in Shoddy.
 

Colonel M

I COULD BE BORED!
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If you evolve Ninjask when he learns Baton Pass, Shedinja will gain that move. This explains why Shedinja cannot pass Swords Dances or Agilities.

On that note, I almost feel that you should have an offensive move but I guess it's not extremely necessary (and it was mentioned anyways, but you should at least have a slash somewhere for at least Shadow Sneak). I've thought of Ominous Wind (stupid I know) but the 10% for a boost in each stat would help benefit the trappers and such but it's a dumb idea in theory because 30 Special Attack is pathetic.
 

cim

happiness is such hard work
is a Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus
If there are no attacks, you should buff defenses in case Shedinja is Baton Passed a Substitute. The set doesn't look that promising (uh, switching?), but I just wanted to mention that for the EVing.
 
Sounds like it needs a hell of a lot of support. Dugtrio and Magnezone are already mentioned, then you'll need a spinner and a weather changer (unless Magnezone has Rain Dance, or your spinner has it or Sunny Day). That's a minimum of three Pokemon, plus Shedinja that's four Pokemon. Almost an entire team.

What is the least amount of support this needs to work? Does this work any better than other Shedinja sets?
 

JabbaTheGriffin

Stormblessed
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I actually think this is a set that works best in ubers. In Ubers the only support you really need is a spinner, which is why the extremely annoying Forretress + Shedinja combo has seen a fair amount of use recently. Forrey both spins and lays spikes/toxic spikes also, so that further helps Shedinja do decent damage to a team. So if anything I'd at least list this set in the analysis as an Ubers set.
 
Fixed typoes courtesy of Sunday, and timw06.
Added in option to pump defensive EVs if a substitute is passed your way from Lee.

Should I exclude the portions mentioning OU threats and pokemon (Zone, Duggy, Skarm, Heatran etc) and write it solely for Ubers. However Duggy and Zone support is again recommended to get rid of Dialga (Duggy) and Forry/Meta (Zone).

Or should I just not bother with any reference to "Team Support" and possibly mention it in Opinion? (i.e. Dugtrio and Magnezone work well alongside any Shedinja set being able to eliminate Steel-types that plague him, either resisting both STAB moves or being immune to Toxic.
 

obi

formerly david stone
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I would put it as move 2: Toxic / Will-O-Wisp and then stick an attack like X-Scissor or Shadow Sneak onto the last slot. Alternately you could just stick a random Hidden Power in there. Using an attack also has the immense advantage of not making you instantly be forced to switch when Taunted. Let's say the opponent has a Gyarados without Bite or Stone Edge (Waterfall, Dragon Dance, Taunt, Ice Fang, for instance). Without an attack, all Gyarados has to do is use Taunt and you can't stay in (Struggle will instantly kill Shedinja with recoil). Put any move that hits Gyarados on there (so not Dig or HP Ground) and you have yourself a "perfect" Gyarados counter.
 

Lee

@ Thick Club
is a Top Team Rater Alumnusis a Community Leader Alumnus
Well, now that the set has an offensive move, I don't think that the option for pumping defences is necessary anymore. It could be mentioned in the EV section though.
 
<p>However, Poison or Steel-type pokemon, as well as those with the Immunity ability, will be unaffected by Toxic, effectively stopping Shedinja cold. This is yet another reason why Dugtrio and Magnezone can come in hand as Magnezone
Handy?

<p>If Shedinja is not running any offensive moves and you happen to have a pokemon that can pass along substitutes on your team, placing 252 EVs in either defensive stats
stat, not stats (you're talking about putting them in one stat and not both)

Really any offensive move, particularly Shadow Sneak or X-Scissor may be used in its place if you are afraid of Taunt.
A comma right after really would make the sentence flow better

Also, the word Pokemon is supposed to be capitalized and have the accent above the e.
 
Thanks Fishin.

Currently my main concern is whether to move mentions of "Trapper" (Paragraphs One and Three) support and just stick those parts in the "Opinion" section. Thoughts?

EDIT: Removed the first specifically mentioning Heatran, Tyranitar, Metagross and Skarmory but added more in to the usefulness of Baton Pass in conjunction with trappers like Zone and Duggy.

Added in revision of Swords Dance set. I will also update the Counters section when I next have time.
 
Alot has been added and I think it warrants a bump. Everything in Bold was added after Fishin's post. Corrections, thoughts, comments.

Thanks to everyone so far for their contributions.
 
[SET]
name: Baton Pass
move 1: Baton Pass
move 2: Toxic / Will-o-Wisp
move 3: Heal Block
move 4: Shadow Sneak / X-Scissor
item: Focus Sash
nature: Jolly
evs: 252 Atk / 252 Spe / 4 Def

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>Baton Pass, even with nothing to pass, is a viable move on Shedinja as it allows it to scout for counters, and then immediately follow up with a slower switch-in, giving you the more favourable match up.</p>

<p>Without Swords Dance to boost Shedinja's barely passable attack stat, Toxic is its best way of dealing damage outside of any damage from entry hazards caused by Shedinja's knack for forcing switches. Heal Block boosts the wall-breaking power of Toxic while making sure your opponent does not simply stall you out of PP by resting off any damage accumulated by Toxic.</p>

<p>However, Poison or Steel-type pokemon, as well as those with the Immunity ability, will be unaffected by Toxic, effectively stopping Shedinja cold. With Baton Pass, Shedinja can immediately retreat and bring in a suitable counter for free, Dugtrio and Magnezone deserving special mention. This pair can come in handy as Magnezone can trap and kill most Steel-types, while Dugtrio's STAB Earthquake hits Poison and Steel-types for super effective damage.</p>

<p>Will-o-Wisp is an option for the aforementioned Steel and Poison-types as Heal Block negates any healing, the process will just be much longer and more arduous as a burn's damage is constant. However any offensive move, particularly Shadow Sneak or X-Scissor, may be used in its place if you are afraid of Taunt. However any move, even specialised Hidden Powers can be used to counter specific Taunters (such as Hidden Power Electric for Gyarados and Skarmory).</p>

--

[EVs]

<p>If Shedinja is not running any offensive moves and you happen to have a pokemon that can pass along substitutes on your team, placing 252 EVs in either defensive stat is an option considering it effectively gives you an "extra life" as well as protecting you from status and pseudo-status such as Toxic and Leech Seed.</p>

---

[SET]
name: Swords Dance
move 1: Swords Dance
move 2: Toxic / Will-o-Wisp
move 3: X-Scissor
move 4: Shadow Sneak
item: Focus Sash
nature: Adamant
evs: 252 Atk / 252 Spe / 4 Def

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>Taking advatange of Shedinja's only passable stat, Attack, this set aims to increase it to higher levels, courtesy of Swords Dance. Thanks to Shedinja's variety of immunities and its knack for forcing switches, it is more that likely you will be able to at least raise your attack once before switching out. Shadow Sneak and X-Scissor are STAB moves chosen for priority purposes and high base power, respectively.</p>

<p>Due to Shedinja's limited movepool, a status move, either Toxic or Will-o-Wisp makes an appearance to cripple any incoming pokemon that might be carrying a super effective attack. Toxic is generally the superior move against walls that carry a move capable of swatting Shedinja, while Will-o-Wisp can effectively neuter any physical threat including what is arguably Shedinja's greatest threat; Pursuit-users such as Metagross and Scizor.</p>

---

[Counters]

<p>Let’s go through the complete list of everything that can kill Shedinja.</p>

<p>Fire/ Flying / Dark / Ghost / Rock moves, non-Fighting / Normal attacks from a Mold Breaker Pokémon, Poison, Burn, Leech Seed, Confusion damage, Sandstorm, Hail, Spikes / Stealth Rock, Nightmare, Darkrai’s Bad Dreams, Life Orb recoil, Double-Edge recoil, Struggle, Struggle recoil, Destiny Bond, Perish Song, Aftermath, Rough Skin, Future Sight / Doom Desire, Ghost-type Curse, Jaboca/Rowap Berry recoil, and absorbing health against a Pokémon with Liquid Ooze.</p>

<p>In OU-level play, Heatran can threaten Shedinja with a super effective fire attack while resisting both of Shedinja's STAB moves and absorbing Toxic and Will-o-Wisp. Skarmory can also come in on ease, threaten with a flying attack (Brave Bird or Drill Peck) or simply setting up Spikes or Stealth Rock forbidding Shedinja from coming back in. Tyranitar can also come in on support moves like Heal Block and Swords Dance but will be troubled by either Will-o-Wisp, Toxic or X-Scissor. However as long as Shedinja doesn't Baton Pass away during the turn sandstream activates, it will instantly faint regardless of a Focus Sash.</p>

<p>In Uber-level play, Darkrai, Groudon and Giratina are the most threatening pokemon to any Shedinja-user. Darkrai can come in freely on a Shadow Sneak or support move, then immediately threaten with Dark Void and it's unique trait, Bad Dreams. Groudon's high Defense and Speed (in proportion to Shedinja's at least) allows it to threaten with Fire Punch or Toxic, while setting up Stealth Rock preventing from Shedinja coming back in. Giratina, threatens Shedinja by combining a status effect in Will-o-Wisp as well as sky-high defensive prowess. Incidentally, Giratina can also use Rest to alleviate it of any status condition (barring a Heal Block) while simultaneously blocking Rapid Spin if any entry hazards are on the field.</p>

<p>Anything with Pursuit is an automatic death sentence for Shedinja, unless it has a Substitute Baton Passed to it to protect it. In fact, this is a useful tactic for it to protect it from status and Leech Seed as well.</p>


It looked really good although I had to fix up a few words and sentences that didn't make much sense. Nothing too drastic just a few small changes.
 
Shedinja can't obtain Baton Pass, Swords Dance or Agility simultaneously.

It can only have one of the three, depending on which level Nincada evolves into Ninjask.
 
If you evolve Ninjask when he learns Baton Pass, Shedinja will gain that move. This explains why Shedinja cannot pass Swords Dances or Agilities.
I think this explains why the Swords Dance set can't run Baton Pass (Unless you want to put Baton Pass > Swords Dance, but then why call it a SD set?)
 
Sorry to the mods for a triple-post but i'm planning on uploading this edit, however Aldaron's peer edits pushed this all the way to Page 4.

I'll leave it for an hour or two, after which, i'll be promptly putting up on the SCMS.
 

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