DP Shuckle

[Caelum]

Heh. I had absolutely no idea where to bring this up but this seemed like the most appropriate forum for it. I apologize if it's not allowed since it's technically not a "peer edit" but it is analysis - related and I wanted discussion about this.

Anyway, I would like to discuss whether or not the Power Trick set should be delegated to Other Options.

Here it is C+P'd for reference.

http://www.smogon.com/dp/pokemon/shuckle

[SET]
name: Power Trickery
move 1: Stone Edge
move 2: Earthquake
move 3: Power Trick
move 4: Gyro Ball / Substitute / Rest
item: Leftovers / Liechi Berry / Life Orb
nature: Impish
evs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
ability: Gluttony

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>Either use this on a team with Trick Room, or kill off all your opponent’s physical attackers first so that they can’t take advantage of the Defense drop after Shuckle uses Power Trick. Gyro Ball is another powerful attack, but you may find any of the other options useful.</p>

I've been testing this for the past 2 weeks since I've always questioned it's efficacy and I've found its performance lackluster. I've rarely swept with it and it normally just dies off and is dead weight. I also have a pretty damn good TR team if I say so myself so it has the proper support. Anyway. With the prominence of mixed sweepers and overall popularity of physical attackers the plausibility of consistently eliminating an opponents physical attackers is questionable, to say the least. Thus, the other option is Trick Room. Well, let's see. Someone else has to set up Trick Room, then you have to switch Shuckle in, then Shuckle has to use Power Trick and take a hit, then you start "sweeping." This leaves barely any time for Shuckle to actually sweep before it's taken out by a physical attacker. Furthermore, Shuckle will only be left with a 614 Attack stat after the Power Trick. Many other Pokemon can reach Attack stats higher then that by use of Swords Dance or Bulk Up or Choice Band; or at least very near to it. In trade, Shuckle is then left with defenses of 244 HP / 56 Defense leaving it incredibly vulnerable to priority moves even when Trick Room is in effect. Furthermore, Shuckle will not likely OHKO whatever it is attacking and so it is vulnerable on the defensive side now as well. The trade off is not worth it. Shuckle is really left best for the defensive role as this set is incredibly difficult to make effective and there are even better physical attackers to make use of. Maybe this was viable in early DP, but in the current DPP realm this set seems to be other options material to me.

Anyway, thoughts?

 

[ODDish]

To be honest I've only ever considered it as a novelty set, and have yet to see it used with any sort of effectiveness. I've never even been tempted to try it, and I'm usually big on the gimmicky crap ...

So, yeah, I'm inclined to agree with you.

 

[Imran]

Adding in my agreement too. From what I'ce seen this forums maintains a high "no gimmiks" policy and this would definately be dubbed a gimmik. I agree wholeheartedly

 

[twash]

Definitely, it is a gimmick and really, really hard to pull off (at least it has been for me).

And, as you said, you barely get any time to actually sweep. I would agree with removal.

 

[Mekkah]

A sweeper with hardly passable Attack (614 is a lot, but not for something that requires this much set-up and sweeps in such a short time) but some of the lowest possible stats everywhere else that relies on Trick Room to attack first? No thanks.

 

[Jimbo]

Also, I've only ever seen it once, and it was in doubles. Since the analyses (atm) don't have doubles-centric movesets, it shouldn't really be there.

And it's pretty novelty, so agreeing.

 

[Janenmori]

I agree. This is basically physical Clamperl that needs more set up.

 

[Colonel M]

I'm just going to remind everyone that you're swapping your Attack and Defense stat, so your Special Defense will, thankfully, remain solid.

On the other hand, this simply felt like Other Options material. It's just too difficult to pull this strategy off. Still, 614 Attack is more than even Adamant Choice Band Tyranitar, which is something I guess. Drop to Other Options I'd say.

 

[Colloquy]

It has, like, no movepool (for sweeping). Sure, QuakeSlide, but nothing much else.

 

[DT]

Commenting on Colonel's statement, 2 out of 3 of its weaknesses tend to be physically based Rock, Steel which leaves the obvious clean cut counter Scizor, or Lucario packing Stone Edge, who can switch into a Stone Edge with little damage due to a 4x resist.

 

[Lee]

A useless set for sure, it should consider itself lucky to even make it into Other Options. On the subject of the Shuckle analysis, are we going to do anything about the "Do not use this" set? It was an iffy addition to begin with and even moreso now that it is outdated. "This is put here because it’s one of the most often used sets, and because it happens to be probably one of the worst ones to use." Really? Because I haven't seen a Wrap/Toxic/Protect/Rest Shuckle since ADV...

 

[Stathakis]

wait why would you power trick with shuckle when you can swords dance with rhyperior, maintain a massive defense and special defense (if sanstorm is going, which it usually is on tr teams) and then still have like 200 more attack points than shuckle?

gimmick

 

[DT]

wait why would you power trick with shuckle when you can swords dance with rhyperior, maintain a massive defense and special defense (if sanstorm is going, which it usually is on tr teams) and then still have like 200 more attack points than shuckle?

gimmick

Ehh it's a gimmick like Sniper-Scope Lens-Focus Energy its decent if it can Set-up correctly but more often than not it can do something else a great deal more proficiently. No reason to use it over Rhyperior barring the bew dismill advantages higher Special Defense highest in game with Sandstorm.

 

[diinbong]

As previously mentioned, it is outclassed and really too hard to set up. The only reason it was on the analysis I think, is it is Shuckle's only real other option. With that in mind, has anyone ever tried a Power Trick Claydol (kidding to an extent).

 

[Colloquy]

The only good (read: decent) sets for Shuckle are the "Supporting Wall" and "Encore Trapper". Everything else is possible other options. Whoever wrote this analysis was drunk or has never used Shuckle. (Not LN, he wrote a great set)

 

[Caelum]

The only good (read: decent) sets for Shuckle are the "Supporting Wall" and "Encore Trapper". Everything else is possible other options. Whoever wrote this analysis was drunk or has never used Shuckle. (Not LN, he wrote a great set)

It's highly probable that the current analysis was written in the very beginning of DP and hasn't been updated since. Don't insult whoever did the original analysis with snide comments, that's completely unnecessary. You can object to something, but do it with some civility. Your insinuation is insulting not only to the original author but the Site Staff at the time who approved the analysis. Rather then complaining that the original author was drunk or incompetent (and indirectly the site staff who approved it) you'd be better off updating it yourself and improving it.

Anyway. I'm going to let this sit for a few days to see if any differing opinions come along but as of now the opinion appears to be that Power Trick should be moved to Other Options.

 

[Darkmalice]

Paralysis support is another method of allowing Shuckle to sweep. It's like Trick Room, except it's permament barring Aromtherapy and Heal Bell, which aren't common anymore, but it has to be cast on all of the opponent's physical attacking pokemon. It's easier than killing all of the physical attackers (if you've done that, it's probably already gg, especially if you have Blissey).

However, the set is still very hard to pull off.

 

[cim]

darknessmalice, uh, have you ever used this set?

I'm going to go ahead and say that Power Trick + Life Orb is actually surprisingly not shitty. I used to use it in OU on a Trick Room team as a late game (read: 3 Pokémon) sweeper and it was actually somewhat reliable. Considering how "meh" Shuckle is, this set really was useful. No, really.

I used Power Trick / Rock Slide / Earthquake / Gyro Ball. Gyro Ball is because it's almost always 150 Base Power, even against Blissey, so it hits usually as hard as STAB Stone Edge without missing. Missing is also the reason for Rock Slide, as I usually had exactly 2 turns to attack afterward I don't want to miss and get OHKOed.

The "trick" to pulling it off in OU is to get physical tanks (Gliscor) down to a certain % damage (I used CB Rhyperior to do it, actually), but force them out before Recovering. That or just kill them with lures, baits, and Explosions.

It's really not _that_ bad, really. It's certainly not utter shit, though it's obviously not the easiest to use set in the world nor the absolute most effective. What else hits harder in UU anyway? I haven't tested it in UU, but complete theorymon says that other than Steelix it would have few problems there given the right support.

 

[Colonel M]

It's highly probable that the current analysis was written in the very beginning of DP and hasn't been updated since.

IIRC, OmegaDonut wrote it. In other words, a long time ago before D/P was released. And DON'T make statements about the contributor being "drunk" or whatnot. Pre-D/P had to be theorymoned for the vast majority of the time.

 

[Caelum]

Interesting Chris. I guess I'll wait a bit longer then for more opinions since I've never had success with this shuckle :/

 

[cim]

Quick comment: Scizor makes it suck now in OU, by the way. Friggin' Bullet Punch. He should be noted in the comments if you keep this. I might draft some.

 

[outofdashdwz]

I play UU pretty much exclusively, and I must say Trick Room Shuckle has no business in the metagame. Priorities are arguably abused more in UU than any other metagame, and all of them bar Toxicroak's Vacuum Wave are physical. The ubiquity of Hitmontop alone should make one think twice about using it. Throw in Aqua Jet Sharpedo/Kabutops, Mach/Bullet Punch Hitmonwhatever, random Linoones, Ice Shard CurseLapras, Quick Attack Swellow, Shadow Sneak CurseMuk, and a whole slew of Sucker Punchers and you've got one giant problem for Shuckle, and that's assuming you have Trick Room up. Fake Out is especially annoying as well, because it wastes one of your 2 remaining turns of Trick Room after using Power Trick while doing almost 50% to you from the likes of Kangaskhan. Pulling it off in UU will be extremely difficult and usually not worth the effort.

 

[Caelum]

Consensus appears to be to move it to Other Options and with opinions from several responsible users and 1 site staff I think its fair to do so. Thus, I'm removing the Power Trick set and moving it to Other Options.