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DPP Cubone (LC Analysis)'

Discussion in 'Locked / Outdated Analyses' started by SoT, Aug 24, 2009.

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  1. SoT

    SoT Yes please!
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    sooooooo cute <3

    [​IMG]
    http://www.smogon.com/dp/pokemon/cubone


    [SET]
    name: Thick Club
    Move 1: Earthquake
    Move 2: Double-Edge
    Move 3: Fire Punch
    Move 4: Substitute / Ice Beam
    Ability: Rock Head
    Item: Thick Club
    Nature: Brave
    Evs: 196 HP / 196 Atk / 76 Def / 36 SpD

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>This set is probably the most effective set that a Cubone can run, and is best if you just need a bulky but heavy hitter in your team. It plays like a standard bulky Choice Band user, with massive Attack and reasonable defenses, except it gets to choose between its attacks, thanks to its unique item, Thick Club. Earthquake is a relatively obvious move here, being Cubone's basic STAB; it generally will OHKO anything that is not resistant or immune to it. Double-Edge is effective at hitting almost everything that Earthquake doesn't. There are a few Pokémon that are immune to both Double-Edge and Earthquake, and all of those Pokémon are hit hard by Fire Punch. Fire Punch serves as Cubone's weapon against Grass-type Pokémon and Bronzor, while also allowing Cubone to deal heavy damage on the levitating Ghosts. Substitute can help ease prediction somewhat, as its immense power tends to cause switches. Alternately, Ice Beam can be used over Substitute for a more powerful hit against Gligar. Just remember to swap the EVs from Special Defense to Special Attack. With 36 Special Attack EVs, Gligar gets OHKOed by Ice Beam 77% of the time, and that turns into 100% with Stealth Rock in play.</p>

    <p>Gastly, Porygon, and Slowpoke are all effective at starting up the effect Trick Room. This allows Cubone to take advantage of his horrible Speed stat. Otherwise, Ekans, Porygon, and Slowpoke all can inflict paralysis on an opposing Pokémon, allowing Cubone to outrun them, making a sweep that much easier.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Baton Pass Receiver
    Move 1: Earthquake
    Move 2: Double-Edge
    Move 3: Fire Punch
    Move 4: Swords Dance / Substitute
    Ability: Rock Head
    Item: Thick Club
    Nature: Jolly / Adamant
    Evs: 36 HP / 196 Atk / 36 SpD / 236 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>While the first set is designed to utilize Cubone as a bulky tank, this set focuses on a specific talent of Cubone's: the ability to sweep after receiving Baton Passed Speed boosts.</p>

    <p>Swords Dance's purpose is obvious: after a Swords Dance, the attacks listed literally OHKO the entire metagame. Just one Swords Dance gives Cubone a massive attack stat of 56 or 60, depending on nature. Substitute, on the other hand, allows Cubone to take advantage of his ability to cause plenty of switches. Even without a Swords Dance boost, Cubone is still incredibly dangerous, and Substitute just compounds that by giving protection against revenge killers and easing prediction. Substitute is a much more cautious option that might not seal the game, but it will make Cubone survive a little longer throughout the battle. Swords Dance will end the game once it gets online, but Cubone's relatively poor Special Defense means that a wrong prediction could be spell instantaneous doom for Cubone.</p>

    <p>Choosing a nature is a matter of personal preference. Jolly is preferred here, as 14 Speed allows it to outpace all non-Choice Scarfed Pokémon after a +1 Speed boost, while +2 Speed gives it enough zip to outpace most Choice Scarfed Pokémon. Adamant, however, is still a good option if you're either relying only on Agility or Rock Polish to be passed, or if you're relying on pure brute force.</p>

    <p>Aipom, Gligar, and Venonat all work rather well with this set. They can effectively pass an Agility or two to Cubone, giving it enough Speed to outpace all non-Choice Scarfed Pokémon, as well as many Scarfed Pokémon. Aipom and Venonat work the best of the three, as they don't share any common weaknesses, so there is less of a risk when it's actually time to pass.</p>

    [Team Options]
    <p>Pokémon who can set up the field effect Trick Room work extremely well with Cubone. The Pokémon who can do this effectively are Gastly, Slowpoke, and Porygon. Porygon and Slowpoke both have access to a recovery move, and can inflict paralysis on opposing Pokémon, giving Cubone a much easier time. Munchlax and Krabby both work extremely well with Cubone as they both can function under Trick Room and resist Ice-type attacks; however Krabby shares a less common Grass-type weakness. Aipom can effectively Agility Pass to Cubone, to give it the Speed to be one hell of a force to take down. Having Stealth Rocks on a team that uses Cubone is also a good idea, Stealth Rocks will make sure that Pokemon holding the item Focus Sash don't stop a sweep abruptly, and they can help turn some 2HKOs into OHKOs.</p>

    [Other Options]
    <p>Cubone has quite a few options in terms of attacks: Iron Head, Iron Tail, Bonemerang, Focus Punch, Rock Slide, ThunderPunch, and Knock Off. Bonemerang could be useful for breaking Subs, but beyond that these moves are just filler. ThunderPunch isn't terrible, but it doesn't hit anything important that Double-Edge or Fire Punch can't hit just as well, if not better, bar Mantyke. Knock Off is an interesting support option that might be of some use if Cubone had better ability to take hits or a higher Speed. In general, Knock Off's special effect is generally not as viable as outright KOing your opponent or setting up for a sweep.The only really viable special attacks to choose from are Blizzard and Ice Beam, which pose a huge threat to any Gligar that are switching in with hopes of ruining a potential sweep.</p>

    <p>Cubone also learns Belly Drum, but it's too slow to stat up and sweep in that method and its Attack doesn't need to be that high to do significant damage Iron Defense is a new stat-up option for Cubone that could in theory be appealing, but Little Cup is too fast and Cubone is too weak to random special attacks to be able to build up his Defense stat and attempt to tank. Cubone has a couple support options in Perish Song and Screech, but its low Speed and somewhat fragile defensive stats don't make it a great choice for packing support.</p>


    [EVs]
    <p>196 HP / 196 Atk / 76 Def / 36 SpD is the standard EV set for Cubone, giving the best combination of Attack and Defense. If you're running Ice Beam, stick the Special Defense EVs into Special Attack for the increased power against Gligar. If you're planning on passing it some Speed, 36 HP /196 Atk / 236 Spe is the preferred spread, possibly with Jolly to hit the magic number of 14, which outpaces all non-Choice Scarfed Pokémon after a +1 boost.</p>

    [Opinion]
    <p> If you like slow but powerful Pokémon, then Cubone is the Pokémon for you. It has a good movepool, and the Attack stat to back it up. It has one distinct advantage, Thick Club, which allows it to play as a Choice Banded Pokémon that isn't locked into one move. Unfortunately, Cubone's low Speed prevents it from being able to sweep without some amount of support, like Agility passing, Trick Room, or paralysis. However, its low Speed does make it a prime candidate for all three of them. His shaky defenses are not exactly reliable, so switching him in directly is a risk you may not wish to take. However once in the fight, Cubone can be very useful at clearing out certain key Pokémon for your main offensive weapon to win the match.</p>

    [Counters]
    <p>Cubone's absolutely massive power means that it's incredibly difficult to switch into. However, the only Pokémon that stand a chance at coming in are those that can avoid its incredibly powerful STAB Earthquake. This limits the counters to Pokémon who have the ability Levitate, and Flying-type Pokémon.</p>

    <p>Bronzor may seem good at first, but its incredibly low Speed combined with Cubone often carrying Fire Punch makes Bronzor ineffective at countering Cubone. Bronzor also poses little to no threat to Cubone, with the standard Cubone having great physical defense and next to no Speed. Gligar is also an iffy counter, being OHKOed by Ice Beam after taking SR damage, and being forced to hit Cubone with neutral attacks on his stronger, but still sub-par, defensive stat. Mantyke can come in with its immunity to Earthquake, and KO or scare off Cubone with a STAB Surf.</p>

    <p>That brings us to our last ditch effort for a Cubone counter: Levitating Ghosts. Misdreavus gets the job done best—its 60/60 defenses allow it to take a maximum of 75% from an Adamant Cubone using Fire Punch. However, without a super effective attack, it's hard for Misdreavus to finish the job: standard unboosted Timid Shadow Ball does 54.17% - 66.67% max. Still, if she manages to come in on a non-damaging attack, Misdreavus can beat Cubone 100% of the time. Gastly is a far less effective counter. The standard +SpA Energy Ball, its most effective attack against Cubone, only OHKOs 2.56% of the time, while Cubone's Fire Punch OHKOs 100% of the time. If it's running a boosting item like Life Orb or Choice Specs, it can outpace and OHKO with little to no trouble. Duskull can survive Fire Punch handily, but its slow Speed lets Cubone easily outpace it and 2HKO it. However, Duskull can possibly cripple Cubone with Will-O-Wisp. Finally, there is Drifloon. Drifloon loses automatically if Cubone is packing Rock Slide, but if it's using Fire Punch, there's still a chance. Fire Punch OHKOs 100% of the time with Stealth Rock up; however if Stealth Rock isn't up, Fire Punch will do 88% max. That's enough for Drifloon get a Petaya activation, which ups its Special Attack to a level that it OHKOs 100% of the time.</p>

    <p>If Cubone pulls off its Swords Dance and Agility combo, it becomes extremely hard to stop. Squirtle can use a combination of Fake Out and Aqua Jet against it, and deal a fair amount of damage. The remaining counters depend on Cubone's nature. Jolly +2 Cubone has 28 Speed, which can only be tied with at best by most Choice Scarfed Pokémon—anything less than 28 Speed dies, and anything more can't switch in. Really, the only counter to a boosted Cubone are priority users, or not letting it happen in the first place.</p>
  2. whistle

    whistle
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    I've got nothing to say content related because I have never played LC but grammar checks are cool right?

    first part: the "use" is extraneous

    second part: I think there should be a comma before "making"

    1. nitpick: Mantyke is hit a lot harder by Thunderpunch than by Double-Edge or Fire Punch. I don't know if Mantyke is "important" though but I am assuming it is because you mention it in the counters section.

    2. "Double-Edge" not "Double Edge"
  3. zarator

    zarator Credits to Mos-Quitoxe for the cute sprite^^
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    I know that Misdreavus and Gastly are hit heavily by Fire Punch anyway, but technically it is not a supereffective hit on them (maybe you were thinking to Bronzor)
  4. jumpluff

    jumpluff Red Admiral
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    [SET]
    name: Thick Club
    Move 1: Earthquake
    Move 2: Double-Edge
    Move 3: Fire Punch
    Move 4: Substitute / Ice Beam
    Ability: Rock Head
    Item: Thick Club
    Nature: Brave
    Evs: 196 HP / 196 Atk / 76 Def / 36 SpD

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>This set is probably the most effective set that a Cubone can run, and is best if you just need a bulky but heavy hitter in your team. It plays like a standard bulky Choice Band user, with massive Attack and reasonable defenses, except it gets to choose between its attacks, thanks to its unique item, Thick Club. Earthquake is a relatively obvious move here, being Cubone's basic STAB; it generally will OHKO anything that is not resistant or immune to it. Double-Edge is effective at hitting almost everything that Earthquake doesn't. There are very few Pokémon that are immune to both Double-Edge and Earthquake, and all of those Pokémon are hit hard by Fire Punch. Fire Punch serves as Cubone's weapon against Grass-type Pokémon and Bronzor, while also allowing Cubone to deal heavy damage on the levitating Ghosts. Substitute can help ease prediction somewhat, as its immense power tends to cause switches. Alternately, Ice Beam can be used over Substitute for a more powerful hit against Gligar. Just remember to swap the EVs from Special Defense to Special Attack. With 36 Special Attack EVs, Gligar gets OHKOed by Ice Beam 77% of the time, and that turns into 100% with Stealth Rock in play.</p>

    <p>Gastly, Porygon, and Slowpoke are all effective at starting up the effect Trick Room. This allows Cubone to take advantage of his horrible Speed stat. Otherwise, Ekans, Porygon, and Slowpoke all can inflict paralysis on an opposing Pokémon, allowing Cubone to outrun them, making a sweep that much easier.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Baton Pass Receiver
    Move 1: Earthquake
    Move 2: Double-Edge
    Move 3: Fire Punch
    Move 4: Swords Dance / Substitute
    Ability: Rock Head
    Item: Thick Club
    Nature: Jolly / Adamant
    Evs: 36 HP / 196 Atk / 36 SpD / 236 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>While the first set is designed to utilize Cubone as a bulky tank, this set focuses on a specific talent of Cubone's: the ability to sweep after receiving Baton Passed Speed boosts.</p>

    <p>Swords Dance's purpose is obvious: after a Swords Dance, the attacks listed literally OHKO the entire metagame. Just one Swords Dance gives Cubone a massive attack stat of 56 or 60, depending on nature. Substitute, on the other hand, allows Cubone to take advantage of his ability to cause plenty of switches. Even without a Swords Dance boost, Cubone is still incredibly dangerous, and Substitute just compounds that by giving protection against revenge killers and easing prediction. Substitute is a much more cautious option that might not seal the game, but it will make Cubone survive a little longer throughout the battle. Swords Dance will end the game once it gets online, but Cubone's relatively poor Special Defense means that a wrong prediction could be spell instantaneous doom for Cubone.</p>

    <p>Choosing a nature is a matter of personal preference. Jolly is preferred here, as 14 Speed allows it to outpace all non-Choice Scarfed Pokémon after a +1 Speed boost, while +2 Speed gives it enough zip to outpace most Choice Scarfed Pokémon. Adamant, however, is still a good option if you're either relying only on Agility or Rock Polish to be passed, or if you're relying on pure brute force.</p>

    <p>Aipom, Gligar, and Venonat all work rather well with this set. They can effectively pass an Agility or two to Cubone, giving it enough Speed to outpace all non-Choice Scarfed Pokémon, as well as many Scarfed Pokémon. Aipom and Venonat work the best of the three, as they don't share any common weaknesses, so there is less of a risk when it's actually time to pass.</p>

    [Team Options]
    <p>Pokémon who can set up the field effect Trick Room work extremely well with Cubone. The Pokémon who can do this effectively are Gastly, Slowpoke,[/b] and Porygon. Porygon and Slowpoke both have access to a recovery move, and can inflict paralysis on opposing Pokémon, giving Cubone a much easier time. Munchlax and Krabby both work extremely well with Cubone as they both can function under Trick Room and resist Ice-type attacks; however Krabby shares a less common Grass-type weakness. Aipom can effectively Agility Pass to Cubone, to give it the Speed to be one hell of a force to take down. </p>

    [Other Options]
    <p>Cubone has quite a few options in terms of attacks: Iron Head, Iron Tail, Bonemerang, Focus Punch, Rock Slide, ThunderPunch, and Knock Off. Bonemerang could be useful for breaking Subs, but beyond that these moves are just filler. ThunderPunch isn't terrible, but it doesn't hit anything important that Double-Edge or Fire Punch can't hit just as well, if not better, bar Mantyke. Knock Off is an interesting support option that might be of some use if Cubone had better ability to take hits or a higher Speed. In general, Knock Off's special effect is generally not as viable as outright KOing your opponent or setting up for a sweep.The only really viable special attacks to choose from are Blizzard and Ice Beam, which pose a huge threat to any Gligar that are switching in with hopes of ruining a potential sweep.</p>

    <p>Cubone also learns Belly Drum, but it's too slow to stat up and sweep in that method and its Attack doesn't need to be that high to do significant damage Iron Defense is a new stat-up option for Cubone that could in theory be appealing, but Little Cup is too fast and Cubone is too weak to random special attacks to be able to build up his Defense stat and attempt to tank. Cubone has a couple support options in Perish Song and Screech, but its low Speed and somewhat fragile defensive stats don't make it a great choice for packing support.</p>


    [EVs]
    <p>196 HP / 196 Atk / 76 Def / 36 SpD is the standard EV set for Cubone, giving the best combination of Attack and Defense. If you're running Ice Beam, stick the Special Defense EVs into Special Attack for the increased power against Gligar. If you're planning on passing it some Speed, 36 HP /196 Atk / 236 Spe is the preferred spread, possibly with Jolly to hit the magic number of 14, which outpaces all non-Choice Scarfed Pokémon after a +1 boost.</p>

    [Opinion]
    <p> If you like slow but powerful Pokémon, then Cubone is the Pokémon for you. It has a good movepool, and the Attack stat to back it up. It has one distinct advantage, Thick Club, which allows it to play as a Choice Banded Pokémon that isn't locked into one move. Unfortunately, Cubone's low Speed prevents it from being able to sweep without some amount of support, like Agility passing, Trick Room, or paralysis. However, its low Speed does make it a prime candidate for all three of them. His shaky defenses are not exactly reliable, so switching him in directly is a risk you may not wish to take. However once in the fight, Cubone can be very useful at clearing out certain key Pokémon for your main offensive weapon to win the match.</p>

    [Counters]
    <p>Cubone's absolutely massive power means that it's incredibly difficult to switch into. However, the only Pokémon that stand a chance at coming in are those that can avoid its incredibly powerful STAB Earthquake. This limits the counters to Pokémon who have the ability Levitate, and Flying-type Pokémon.</p>

    <p>Bronzor may seem good at first, but its incredibly low Speed combined with Cubone often carrying Fire Punch makes Bronzor ineffective at countering Cubone. Bronzor also poses little to no threat to Cubone, with the standard Cubone having great physical defense and next to no Speed. Gligar is also an iffy counter, being OHKOed by Ice Beam after taking SR damage, and being forced to hit Cubone with neutral attacks on his stronger, but still sub-par, defensive stat. Mantyke can come in with its immunity to Earthquake, and KO or scare off Cubone with a STAB Surf.</p>

    <p>That brings us to our last ditch effort for a Cubone counter: Levitating Ghosts. Misdreavus gets the job done bestits 60/60 defenses allow it to take a maximum of 75% from an Adamant Cubone using Fire Punch. However, without a super effective attack, it's hard for Misdreavus to finish the job: standard unboosted Timid Shadow Ball does 54.17% - 66.67% max. Still, if she manages to come in on a non-damaging attack, Misdreavus can beat Cubone 100% of the time. Gastly is a far less effective counter. The standard +SpA Energy Ball, its most effective attack against Cubone, only OHKOs 2.56% of the time, while Cubone's Fire Punch OHKOs 100% of the time. If it's running a boosting item like Life Orb or Choice Specs, it can outpace and OHKO with little to no trouble. Duskull can survive Fire Punch handily, but its slow Speed lets Cubone easily outpace it and 2HKO it. However, Duskull can possibly cripple Cubone with Will-O-Wisp. Finally, there is Drifloon. Drifloon loses automatically if Cubone is packing Rock Slide, but if it's using Fire Punch, there's still a chance. Fire Punch OHKOs 100% of the time with Stealth Rock up; however if Stealth Rock isn't up, Fire Punch will do 88% max. That's enough for Drifloon get a Petaya activation, which ups its Special Attack to a level that it OHKOs 100% of the time.</p>

    <p>If Cubone pulls off its Swords Dance and Agility combo, it becomes extremely hard to stop. Squirtle can use a combination of Fake Out and Aqua Jet against it, and deal a fair amount of damage. The remaining counters depend on Cubone's nature. Jolly +2 Cubone has 28 Speed, which can only be tied with at best by most Choice Scarfed Pokémonanything less than 28 Speed dies, and anything more can't switch in. Really, the only counter to a boosted Cubone is priority or not letting it happen in the first place.</p>
  5. Seven Deadly Sins

    Seven Deadly Sins ~hallelujah~
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    amusingly enough i wrote most of the prose for that because his original prose sucked a lot so it barely counts as his analysis

    still looks good =D
  6. eric the espeon

    eric the espeon maybe I just misunderstood
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    Ground/normal immunity is actually one of the more common combinations with all the levitating ghosts around and Drifloon. Admittedly all of them are 2KOd, baring oran or a very odd missy set.

    I'm not sure if para support is that effective in LC, Ekans is far from a good pokemon and Pory really has better things to do. And you can use Cubone without any support, bring it in after a slow Pokemon (or a not very threatening physical attacker) has KOd something and smash something down.

    New?

    Opinion should talk about how it is relitively easy to revenge kill when not passed speed, and about how it actually has more than passable physical defence.

    Counters could do with a little more about wearing down with repeted priority, maybe mentions of other AJers or ISers? Cubone wil rarely sweep a healthy team even with +2/+2 because every decent team has several priority users and maybe a sasher or two. Actually SR could go in team options because sashers will really annoy you if you have spent a lot of effort passing boosts to it and setting up.
  7. Heysup

    Heysup Monsters are dangerous and kings are dying like flies.
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    On top of that, Slowpoke is likely better off setting up Trick Room for Cubone then attempting to Paralyze things.
  8. eric the espeon

    eric the espeon maybe I just misunderstood
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    Since SoT is no longer active this analysis needs to be reassigned I'm locking for now, contact me or one of the other mods if you want to finish it.

    Basic CIC for whoever does this:

    ThunderPunch can be removed from OO, D-E 1Koes the only target, Mantyke, anyway.
    I can;t think of anything other than maybe Lileep that Iron Head or Iron Tail would be helpful for, and its not like Cubone has moveslots to spare, so those can probably go too. Knock Off.. is really meh on Cubone, not sure if it should even stay in OO. Iron Defense is also questionably worth including at all. Perish Song is silly on something with huge attack and pretty bad SpD, and Screech is just worse than SD.

    Bonemerang and Focus Punch could do with a little more explenation, as could Belly Drum. Counter needs to be added to OO, and probably Protect too.

    Team Options needs some more TR setuppers, it misses arguably the best of the lot, Bronzor.

    The Ice Moves Vs Gligar calcs in the first set are incorrect if mine are right, and need redoing. Some idea of 1/2Koes from Fire Punch would be a very good idea, maybe a table of calcs for several moves somewhere actually.
    Duskull/Missy/Floon can always avoid the 1KO from Fire Punch with heavy investment.

    Maybe test if Stealth Rock is worth fitting into OO?

    And many of the other corrections need to be added into the OP.
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