Metagame DPP Doubles

#1

This thread is dedicated to information and discussion about the Generation 4 Doubles Metagame, DPP Doubles​

Some topics for discussion: Sample teams; Viability of Leads/mons/archetypes; No Team Preview: love it or hate it?; Is Explosion Broken?; Can we free Wobbgod?​
PLAY RESTRICTIONS
  • Sleep Clause Mod: Players cannot put two Pokemon on the opposing team to sleep.
  • Species Clause: Players cannot use two Pokemon with the same Pokedex number on the same team.
  • OHKO Clause: Players cannot use the moves Fissure, Guillotine, Horn Drill, or Sheer Cold.
  • Evasion Clause: Players cannot use the moves Double Team or Minimize.
  • Evasion Abilities Clause: Players cannot use the abilities Snow Cloak or Sand Veil unless it is the Pokemon's only ability
Pokemon Restrictions
Players cannot use the following Pokemon:
  • Arceus
  • Darkrai
  • Deoxys
  • Dialga
  • Garchomp
  • Giratina
  • Groudon
  • Ho-Oh
  • Kyogre
  • Latias
  • Latios
  • Lugia
  • Manaphy
  • Mew
  • Mewtwo
  • Palkia
  • Rayquaza
  • Salamence
  • Shaymin-Sky
  • Wobbuffet
  • Wynaut
Note that this is the same banlist as Gen 4 OU; this list may change at a later date.

Significant Differences in Mechanics
  • No team preview, the first two Pokemon in your team will be your lead
  • Steel resists Ghost and Dark
  • Hidden abilities do not exist
  • All Rotom forms are Ghost/Electric type
  • Double Protecting works 50% of the time
  • Crits do 2x damage
  • Follow me has +3 Priority
  • Sleep lasts 2-5 Turns, Sleep timer does not reset when switching (as it does in BW)
  • Burn does 1/8 HP per turn
  • Grasses can be Spored, Electrics paralyzed
  • Sleep Clause mod is on, which means if an opponent is already sleeping because of your pokemon, a second attempt to put an opponent to sleep will fail
  • Mental Herb only cures infatuation
Significant Differences in specific attacks
  • Explosion Halves targets' defense in calculation, effectively giving it 500 Base power
  • This mechanic also applies to self-destruct, effectively giving it 400 Base Power
  • Drain Punch, Giga Drain have 60 Base Power instead of 75
  • Feint has 50 Base Power instead of 30. it also fails if it does not hit a protect.
  • Hi Jump Kick has 100 Base Power instead of 130
  • Aura Sphere has 90 Base Power instead of 80
  • Blizzard, Thunder, Fire Blast, Hydro Pump All have 120 Base Power instead of 110
  • Ice Beam, Flamethrower, Thunderbolt, Surf, Muddy Water All have 95 Base Power instead of 90
  • Dragon Pulse has 90 Base Power instead of 85
  • Energy Ball has 80 Base Power instead of 90
  • Heat Wave has 100 Base Power instead of 95
  • Draco Meteor, Leaf Storm, Overheat all have 140 Base Power instead of 130
  • Knock Off Has 20 Base Power instead of 65
  • Meteor Mash has 100 Base Power instead of 90, and 85% accuracy instead of 90%
  • Hidden Power has Base Power depending on the user's IVs, 30-70
  • Sucker Punch has 80 Base Power instead of 70
  • Toxic has 85% accuracy instead of 90
  • Will-O-Wisp has 75% accuracy instead of 85%
  • Thunder Wave has 100% accuracy (bless)
  • Glare has 70% accuracy instead of 100%
 
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#4
Some quick huge things i noticed are:
  • Nothing viable has follow me/rage powder so redirection is basically not a thing
  • No team preview lets some more gimmicky shit to actually have a chance at being decent or maybe even viable
  • Honestly im kinda mixed on how good explosion is however it does cause you to be required to have at least one resist and a ghost type on your team because it can destroy you
  • NO LANDORUS-T
  • Competitive/Defiant is not a thing allowing you to run double intimidate pretty safely
Some mons I have been using are:

Staraptor - Ive really loved using this thing. It has intimidate a good attack stat and giving it a choice scarf means it can hit and take out targets that might otherwise explode.
Gyarados- Again, Intimidate makes this thing strong, plus you can add dragon dancing and it can sweep teams effectively
Rhyperior- Maybe not the best choice but it feels extremely strong underneath trick room or even if you wanted to pair it with the above gyarados it covers its one main weakness in electric with a lightning rod. You can also pair it with things like Dusknoir and Uxie and have it be an effective trick room sweeper.
Dusknoir - The best trick room setters ive found so far. They are immune to explosion first off and are bulky as well allowing them to take more hits.


ill update this as I test more mons and more teams but this metagame is honestly extremely fun and hopefully stays around.
 
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#6
ok here are some preliminary viability noms that seem to be a good starting point in my limited experience

Tyranitar
Cresselia
Gengar
Zapdos
Heatran
Gyarados
Infernape
Azelf
Kingdra
Aerodactyl
Crobat
Metagross
Rotom-A
Raikou
Weavile
Jirachi
Hitmontop
Celebi
Swampert
Vaporeon
Machamp
Heracross
Staraptor
Ludicolo
Dragonite
Scizor
Togekiss
Bronzong


I've tried to make these as non controversial as possible, since its a starting point. I'm also aware that ive probably omitted some viable mons, as well as a tier 3, for the time being
 
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#7
Some quick huge things i noticed are:
/
Dusclops/Dusknoir - The best trick room setters ive found so far. They are immune to explosion first off and are bulky as well allowing them to take more hits. So far i have only used Dusknoir however with the complete lack of Knock Off and such I think Dusknoir might be the better choice. Ill test a little and get back to you.


ill update this as I test more mons and more teams but this metagame is honestly extremely fun and hopefully stays around.
eviolite is a gen 5 thing. run dusknoir always
 
#11
I'm not very experimented in Doubles, so I may be wrong at some point , but I think this old article can be interesting : http://www.smogon.com/smog/issue6/doubles

Unbanning Garchomp is worth discussion, since his most powerful STABs, Outrage and Earthquake, are significantly flawed in Doubles. However, since this article was based on VGC metagame when Tyranitar was banned, Sand Veil wasn't an issue, even though Garchomp itself wouldn't be as threathly as it is in simple, his uncompetitive abilty could make him more unhealthy... Darkrai, as long as Dark Void remains banned (as you can see in the article, Smeargle was a threat because of it), can be considered too. Latios was allowed so I guess we could give it a try too, same for Salamence and Manaphy, both can be neat additions in my opinion.
 
#12
yh i think garchomp would be a really healthy addition to the meta, it'd be nice to have a ground type worth running, and it seems like it wouldnt get overbearing since it loses to every water type / cress / fast things with hp ice. The only mon i think could be a problem is latios, just cuz draco meteor hits really hard and there are only a handful of decent switch ins. I'd also like to test the deoxys forms, and darkrai at some point, but i think that latias, salamence, manaphy, mew, and chomp can come off the ban list immediately.

as for bans, we'd obviously need to ban soul dew if either lati came off the ban list, and I'd like to see explosion and self destruct banned, because theyre pretty dumb tbh.
 

Bughouse

Like ships in the night, you're passing me by
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#13
TBH heatran seems top dog in this meta and I think adding back at least one dragon would be beneficial.
 
#14
Based on some VGC videos, I'm going to "nominate" some Pokemon which doesn't appear on the preliminary viability ranking. Even though VGC metagame is a lot different, there are probably Pokemon which are viable in both regardless of the lack of Tyranitar (among other threats) in VGC:

- Snorlax was overused and worked very well so far, inside and outside of Trick, at least with Selfdestruct allowed, but it's still good to have something able to take special hits well and hitting hard at the same time which doesn't mind having his speed lowered by Icy Wind (Yes Explosion and Selfdestrcut are really strong :
)

- Empoleon saw some use, I guess it can be explained by how threatly rain teams can be (but ironically, I didn't see a lot of Kingdra, Ludicolo was much more frequently used, even outside of rain), Icy wind support and 3 attack were both played.

- Yamnega was a thing. I saw him a decent amount of times despite Zapdos and Heatran being so great. We all know that Doubles have always been an offensive inclined metagame and that Speed is really important. You can guess that Speed Boost is pretty big advantage. (For instance, but that's not the only time i saw Yamnega :
)

- Rhyperior, although competiting with Tyranitar, is probably revelant too : the access to Lighting Rod can be really handy (I've rarely seen him alongside Gyarados though) and the ability to sweep under Trick room without struggling too much like Marowak does against Cresselia thanks to Megahorn.

- Toxicroak was very decent as a Fake Out lead too (surprisingly I didn't see any Hitmontop), I guess Rain teams are really that threatening and being able to spam Surf with your other Mon is appreciated if it doesn't learn Muddy Water, which is often the case ( the anti-rain lead core Empo / Croak was used a decent amount of time
)

I might have forget some important things (Smeargle, Jolteon, Arcanine, Registeel and Gastrodon have been used more than one time too). I recommend you to see by yourself other videos in the channel (which also includes some ADV Doubles btw)if you're interested. All the Dragons (Lati@s, Chomp and Mence) were realeased, they are obviously excellent but none of them strike me as being broken, you can judge by yourself (
, some previous videos include Tias and Mence).
 

marilli

two, but one.
is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus
#15
All the Dragons (Lati@s, Chomp and Mence) were realeased, they are obviously excellent but none of them strike me as being broken, you can judge by yourself, some previous videos include Tias and Mence.
Yeah i don't think anyone thinks the dragons are broken but because the PS mods don't know much about dubs they just imported the DPP OU banlist which really sucks. It'd be great if these get unbanned before the tour, but idk anyone aside from maybe kami and l51 really has enough say in PS administrative matters to actually change the banlist :x
 
#16
- Rhyperior, although competiting with Tyranitar, is probably revelant too : the access to Lighting Rod can be really handy (I've rarely seen him alongside Gyarados though) and the ability to sweep under Trick room without struggling too much like Marowak does against Cresselia thanks to Megahorn.
Just as a clarification, Tyranitar was banned in VGC'09 because Pokemon needed to be at level 50 maximum, at Pupitar evolves to Tyranitar at level 55, so for that only reason, it wasn't allowed.

Dragonite was an exception because there was one event that they were giving out a level 50 Dragonite and that one was allowed, not any other.
 
#17
Just as a clarification, Tyranitar was banned in VGC'09 because Pokemon needed to be at level 50 maximum, at Pupitar evolves to Tyranitar at level 55, so for that only reason, it wasn't allowed.

Dragonite was an exception because there was one event that they were giving out a level 50 Dragonite and that one was allowed, not any other.
yeah he mentioned that t tar was banned that year, he's talking about this meta. and i agree, rhyperior is definitely a good pick
 
#18
Tour is Tonight! Registrations will be up from 7:45 to 8:10 and Round 1 will be posted shortly afterwards
The banlist will be the same as in the OP.
First Place will receive $20 and 100 Hashtag Points.
Second Place will receive $10 and 45 Hashtag Points.
Third Place will receive 10 Hashtag Points and a firm handshake.

Don't have any teams? No worries! Here is a pastebin with a few neat choices!
https://pastebin.com/9vebcn2Q
 

Checkmater

a pinned butterfly is no butterfly at all
is a Pre-Contributor
#22
I finished memeing around and saw that there was a tour going on, so I opened ps and built a team really fast while waiting for mizu to respond to my msg. In that time, I ended up building this team which (unfortunately) didn't make it to 2nd or 1st but at least I got the treasure chest (ecks dee). It's a fun team but lacking on water resists? Don't really know how to fix that, also I did alright vs some rain teams so maybe that wasn't really a problem just a case of my misplays in the finals vs the 2 rain teams. Zapdos definitely helps vs the two but in one of the finals I got taunted so shrug

https://pastebin.com/0GdL4iSx

Flygon @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 148 HP / 252 Atk / 108 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Earthquake
- Dragon Claw
- U-turn
- Thunder Punch

Gengar @ Choice Specs
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Shadow Ball
- Sludge Bomb
- Focus Blast
- Icy Wind

Tyranitar @ Life Orb
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 32 HP / 224 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Rock Slide
- Crunch
- Dragon Dance
- Protect

Metagross @ Choice Band
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 68 HP / 252 Atk / 188 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Meteor Mash
- Zen Headbutt
- Pursuit
- Explosion

Infernape @ Life Orb
Ability: Blaze
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Fake Out
- Flare Blitz
- Close Combat
- U-turn

Zapdos @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 HP / 132 SpD / 124 Spe
Serious Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Thunderbolt
- Thunder Wave
- Roost
- Protect


I rebuilt this from scratch / memory because firefox deleted my teams so shrug

From game to game I changed things like items (life orb or specs on gengar, scarf or band on flygon, 4th moves on gengar and infernape, item on ttar / gross)

Team was pretty physical focused, I felt metagross and ttar underperformed overall, but probably I just used them wrong / ttar was spent switching into a lot of things for resetting weather and such

I had a lot of fun playing this metagame for sure
 

kamikaze

The King Of Games
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Doubles Magician
#23
Took some time but DPP Doubles OU is now available on Showdown once more but as a challenge only format

There have been some modifications to the banlist which were done as follows:
- Import the DPP OU Banlist by default
- Remove from Banlist: Wobbufett, Wynaut, Latios, Latias, Manaphy, Garchomp, Mew, Salamence
- Ban the move Explosion
- Ban the item Soul Dew

The actual banlist is below

PLAY RESTRICTIONS
  • Sleep Clause Mod: Players cannot put two Pokemon on the opposing team to sleep.
  • Species Clause: Players cannot use two Pokemon with the same Pokedex number on the same team.
  • OHKO Clause: Players cannot use the moves Fissure, Guillotine, Horn Drill, or Sheer Cold.
  • Evasion Clause: Players cannot use the moves Double Team or Minimize.
  • Evasion Abilities Clause: Players cannot use the abilities Snow Cloak or Sand Veil unless it is the Pokemon's only ability
Pokemon Restrictions
Players cannot use the following Pokemon:
  • Arceus
  • Darkrai
  • Deoxys
  • Dialga
  • Giratina
  • Groudon
  • Ho-Oh
  • Kyogre
  • Lugia
  • Mewtwo
  • Palkia
  • Rayquaza
  • Shaymin-Sky
Move Restrictions
Players cannot use the following moves:
  • Explosion
Item Restrictions
Players cannot use the following items:
  • Soul Dew
 
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