DPP Lead Mamoswine +

[kd24]

Another one of Stellar's "brilliant" creations, im surprised the closest thing to this set in the analysis is the endeavor sweep set which is actually pretty terrible =/


ive tested this with stellar extensively and its one of the best leads i have ever used.


http://www.smogon.com/dp/pokemon/mamoswine


[SET]
name: Lead
move 1: Stealth Rock
move 2: Ice Shard
move 3: Earthquake
move 4: Endeavor / Protect / Stone Edge
item: Focus Sash / Life Orb
ability: Snow Cloak
nature: Adamant
evs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
<p>Mamoswine is a great lead for two reasons. The first reason is that Mamoswine can set up a quick Stealth Rock, a move that any good lead generally wants to have. The second and more important reason is that Mamoswine can easily deal with many of the top leads found in OU.</p>

<p>Mamoswine's STAB Earthquake is one of the strongest moves available, OHKOing even Shuca Berry Heatran leads. Earthquake can also OHKO Tyranitar and Metagross who don't stock up in HP and don't use a Shuca Berry. Jirachi also falls quickly to Earthquake and Ice Shard if they happen to survive. However, you are coin flipping with Jirachi as Iron Head will flinch you 60% of the time, rendering your attack useless. Other notable leads that Mamoswine can deal with are Aerodactyl, who will Taunt or Stealth Rock as you quickly Ice Shard for a 2HKO, Roserade, who will have to rely on a 75% sleep move if they wish to stop you since Grass Knot will not OHKO you, and even Bronzong, as you can simply Stealth Rock as they Gyro Ball, then finish them off with Endeavor and Ice Shard. This can be risky as well though, as Bronzong may not wait to finish you off or even worse, Bronzong may Stealth Rock on the first turn.</p>

<p>Endeavor is a great attack if you are low on health and are faster than your opponent. However, Protect is a great move as well and enables you to defeat Fake Out Infernape and Ambipom leads. It also allows you to scout choiced leads such as Breloom, Gyarados, or even Gengar.</p>

<p>If Focus Sash does not give you the power that you desire, Life Orb is a fine alternative, allowing Mamoswine to OHKO Metagross. If you decide to use Life Orb, Stone Edge should be used in the last slot as it provides the most power against Gyarados, Zapdos, and Moltres.</p>


issues / concerns:

1.) should i take out the part about bronzong? i have koed bronzong before with sr first turn while he gyro balls, endeavor next turn as he srs and then ice shard to ko but this is pretty rare

2.) should protect even be mentioned? I like it because it beats mixape but me and stellar used endeavor so effectively when using his suspect test team, especially when the opponent brings in something like skarmory or bronzong on your low health mamoswine.

second paragraph may need a lot of rewording, it seems fuzzy to me but i don't know how to fix it. maybe its just me ?

 

[cim]

I'm using a lead mamoswine, but this set is better with life orb and EQ / ice shard / ice fang or stone edge / stealth rock.

Life Orb EQ OHKOs shucatran through the berry as well as metagross, ice shard 2hkos suiciders, about the only thing it doesn't beat is infernape. I thought focus sash couldn't do that?

It rarely gets out SR, but who cares it's just filler and it rapes all the other leads.

Why is Sash needed when LO is so much better, really.

The description is misleading, a lead zong gets you to 1 hp with gyro ball so you don't have the turn you need to finish it with ice shard like you imply.

 

[Shelcario]

I too just started using this set today, it has its pros and cons. Pros being it can set up Stealth Rock with ease but at the same time if the opponent is slower you can then endeavor them down to 1 hp if they attack you first turn such as Bronzong using Gyro Ball then Ice Shard to knock them out. The one con that I've found with using this set is that if I decide to Stealth Rock first turn and the opponent attacks with a powerful attack it already breaks out use of Mamoswines' Focus Sash which then only allows me to either Endeavor if it's a slower opponent and finish off with Ice Shard, or if it's a faster opponent I will then have to switch taking an incoming attack. I'm going to try out Chris is me's set and see if it's truly better.

 

[kd24]

We used Sash just for random leads that could overcome you if you are not prepared.


For example, Focus Sash will allow you to take on Scarf Moltres leads (rare i know but still out there) by simply endeavor + ice shard, providing they fire blast of course.

You can now no longer have to worry about Scarf Metagross leads as you will survive their Meteor Mash and OHKO with Earthquake.

Scarfnape also dies if it overheats / fire blast / cc first turn because you hang on and then ohko

if you fight a band gyara lead (chou has made this popular), you can simply endeavor + ice shard to ko

scarfheatran leads also die as you survive fire blast and then eq for ohko.

focus sash has really helped both me and stellar later in the game when we were using this set, as half of the time, we were able to avoid taking hits. I recall when we faced aerodactyl, ice sharded it before it could attack us, they brought in scizor, we survived its cb bullet punch with the sash and endeavored, following up with an ice shard.

so sash definitely has its uses, i will test out the life orb lead you are trying chris and see if it is truly better though.

 

[diinbong]

I would reword the part about Bronzong, since the best you can do is get it to 1 HP.

 

[Kir]

I have used this set with great success on my last OU team that took me pretty high up the leaderboard. It is truly an amazing lead.

I'd take out the part about Bronzong since it would be a poor play for the opponent to not SR first turn in that situation because Mamoswine doesn't really threaten it. Against Bronzong, I like to use SR first, then EQ the next turn to scout if its a weird Heatproof set as he uses Gyro Ball. Then, I'm ok to use Endeavor. Is this the right way to go against lead Bronzong? I guess it probably depends on if he is a problem for your team.

Something that deserves mention I think is that this fails to KO standard lead Gross with Earthquake + Ice Shard, which sucks. I've found ways around it though (I EQ first and then go to Infernape on the Bullet Punch who proceeds to U-turn. This way he doesn't get SR and I still have Mamo ready to use Endeavor later).

Also, Focus Sash is definitely the superior item. If you just use Life Orb, this doesn't really deserve its own set. You'd just mention SR in the Set Comments for the standard attacker.

Just my two cents.

 

[cim]

Something that deserves mention I think is that this fails to KO standard lead Gross with Earthquake + Ice Shard, which sucks. I've found ways around it though (I EQ first and then go to Infernape on the Bullet Punch who proceeds to U-turn. This way he doesn't get SR and I still have Mamo ready to use Endeavor later).

Life Orb fixes that problem (also this contradicts the set comments kd ._.), and this is why I think Life Orb > Focus Sash here.

 

[jrrrrrrr]

[SET]
name: Lead
move 1: Stealth Rock
move 2: Ice Shard
move 3: Earthquake
move 4: Endeavor / Protect
item: Focus Sash
ability: Snow Cloak
nature: Adamant
evs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe

This looks exactly the same as the "Endeavor" set currently in the analysis, except with SR and a different item. If it is as bad as you say it is, I would suggest just replacing it with this set and putting Endeavor+Sub+Liechi/Salac in the Other Options bin.

issues / concerns:

1.) should i take out the part about bronzong? i have koed bronzong before with sr first turn while he gyro balls, endeavor next turn as he srs and then ice shard to ko but this is pretty rare

If a Mamoswine set can take out Bronzong, that is noteworthy IMO.

2.) should protect even be mentioned? I like it because it beats mixape but me and stellar used endeavor so effectively when using his suspect test team, especially when the opponent brings in something like skarmory or bronzong on your low health mamoswine.

How does Protect Mamoswine beat MixApe, or any Infernape for that matter? Blocking Fake Out could be useful, but thats about it. Your counters will still beat you with or without Protect, and its not like you are gaining Lefties recovery because of it. Mamoswine has mediocre speed, but it is faster than quite a bit of the metagame and there is always that chance you can come in on something later and get a clutch KO. Just because this Mamoswine is a lead, doesnt mean that you have to sacrifice it without switching. Endeavor would prove to be much more useful on a match to match basis.

second paragraph may need a lot of rewording, it seems fuzzy to me but i don't know how to fix it. maybe its just me ?

Any paragraph were you just list counters and how to deal with them is going to be fuzzy. =D

 

[Objection]

This looks exactly the same as the "Endeavor" set currently in the analysis, except with SR and a different item. If it is as bad as you say it is, I would suggest just replacing it with this set and putting Endeavor+Sub+Liechi/Salac in the Other Options bin.

I think the point is that the old Endeavor set is terrible and he wants this to replace it.

 

[kd24]

ok so here are my plans

i will add life orb as an alternate item, telling why both work great and maybe giving one or two examples.

jrrrrrrr, this is a mamoswine lead and protect would allow you to beat the standard fake out / sr / cc / fire blast infernape leads. simply protect first turn as they fake out, eq next turn as they attack or sr and then ice shard. if they sr on turn 2, you will still have a full health mamoswine.

protect would also scout out uturn or flare blitz to tell you that you are actually dealing with scarfnape leads. i dont really understand how this set with protect would lose to infernape leads so if you could show me, that would be cool.

ill try to work on the second paragraph, although if it is a lead set, i do want to keep most of "what it counters" in there.

and yes this is meant to replace the current endeavor set.

 

[-Mind-]

What about Substitute?

 

[Objection]

What about Substitute?

What about it?

Well, it would be counterproductive on a set with Focus Sash, and recoil from Life Orb will only wear Mamoswine down even quicker, so I doubt that Substitute will find its way onto this set.

 

[Colonel M]

The current Endeavor set in the analysis... It's not really a sweeping set at all. It's a surprise set / viable lead. Unfortunately it was written before Fake Out Infernape became that popular (which I still think is a waste of a lead because Infernape has better things to do). Still, do as you see fit.

 

[LoveDensity]

The current Endeavor set in the analysis... It's not really a sweeping set at all. It's a surprise set / viable lead. Unfortunately it was written before Fake Out Infernape became that popular (which I still think is a waste of a lead because Infernape has better things to do). Still, do as you see fit.

I like this set as I do with all Endeavor Support Leads. I think Jolly could be an option to outspeed some things like Heatran leads and use EQ as a scout first move. I'm surprised the Smeargle set I posted(which I think has greater potential) still isn't at least "somewhat" used other than me. The days of Fake Out leads and suicide leads like Azelf/Aerodactyl are dwindling.

 

[diinbong]

You might as well put the remaining 4 EVs in one of the defenses to raise Endeavor damage.

 

[Kittymew]

Protect is mentioned because Protect stops Fake Out. You can then Earthquake+Ice Shard any Infernape.

Personally I run Endeavour on mine, and switch out of the Fake Out. My opponent might predict the switch and set up rocks, or U-Turn, but Fake Out is so safe that it's almost rarely forgone. Infernape has so many good counters (mine's Psycho Shift Latias) that you don't absolutely HAVE to have a lead that answers it if it does well in other matchups.

 

[Virtuoso]

Protect is mentioned because Protect stops Fake Out. You can then Earthquake+Ice Shard any Infernape.

Umm, I don't think so. A Lead infernape's Fire Blast should OHKO Mamo iirc. So there wouldn't be time to EQ+IS

 

[diinbong]

Mamoswine used Protect
Infernape used Fake Out
Mamoswine is Protected

Infernape used Fire Blast
Mamoswine haung on with Focus Sash
Mamoswine used Earthquake
Infernape hung on with Focus Sash

Mamoswine used Ice Shard
Infernape Fainted

 

[Aeroblacktyl]

why wouldn't you run jolly if you're running life orb? o_O there's like almost no point to being at 1 hp to heatran and then just die next turn when you can just ohko it off the bat and have 90% left....


also post #4 is just a horrible example.....moltres will most likelyuturn off the bat, thinking 1, no way mamo stays in, and 2, what if heatran/bliss come in, gotta scout! and with gyarados, who are you kidding. plus you wont even know if it's jolly or adamant, and if you outspeed it, then you just fucked yourself

 

[cim]

Big bump, but this is still a good, fairly common set. Would anyone mind if I uploaded it?

 

[Stellar]

Everything seems fine, but I would take off Life Orb as an option and remove the small paragraph detailing its use. You need Focus Sash for this lead to be effective.

Other than that, I don't see any issues with this being uploaded.

 

[cim]

Not true! With Life Orb, you can OHKO Metagross leads, but with Focus Sash you can beat some leads you otherwise couldn't. It's not a requirement, and I've had a lot of success just switching out the Life Orb version against the 2 or 3 leads it loses to. The number of additional Pokémon Life Orb beats and loses to is about the same.

Granted, LO is not guaranteed SR by any means, but that's not the point of the lead, there are better mons for that.

EDIT: After discussing on IRC a line should just be included to mention the (currently non existent) LO set also works as a lead if you want to KO Metagross.

 

[Stellar]

Ok CIM and I agreed on the following.

Remove Stone Edge / Life Orb from this set.
When the current Mamoswine analysis is updated, change the Choice Band set to a "Physical Attacker" set with both Choice Band and Life Orb as options. Then add SR as one of the set options.

Leave a passing comment in this set's comments along the lines of "if you want to OHKO lead Metagross, use the Physical Attacker set" or something.

 

[kd24]

k cool

 

[cim]

Put this on site as part of the AW / Updates cleanup project, but whomever does the Mamo revamp (I'll get to it soon) should note the compromise reached.