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Gen 4 DPP NU Viability Ranking

Discussion in 'Ruins of Alph' started by Oglemi, Jul 14, 2014.

  1. Oglemi

    Oglemi Working hard
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    Been playing this a bit again because of RUPL and NUPL. It's a really fun meta and easy to pick up, figured I'd do one of these for it since I did for ADV NU lol.

    S Rank: Reserved for the top threats in the NU metagame. These Pokemon are usually able to perform a variety of roles effectively, or can just do one extremely well with little to no extra support. Their use has low risk involved and high reward exerted. Pokemon in this tier have very few flaws that are patched up by numerous positive traits.

    Top:
    • [​IMG] Charizard
    Low:
    • [​IMG] Jynx
    • [​IMG] Medicham
    • [​IMG] Tauros
    A Rank: Reserved for Pokemon that are outstanding in the NU metagame and can sweep, wall, or support the majority of the tier. These Pokemon require less support than other Pokemon to be used effectively, but still perform less consistently than the average S rank Pokemon. A rank Pokemon have few flaws that can be overlooked when compared to their positive traits.

    Top:
    • [​IMG] Haunter
    • [​IMG] Hypno
    • [​IMG] Magmortar
    • [​IMG] Regirock
    • [​IMG] Skuntank
    • [​IMG] Slowking
    • [​IMG] Vileplume
    Mid:
    • [​IMG] Gardevoir
    • [​IMG] Gligar
    • [​IMG] Hitmonchan
    • [​IMG] Lickilicky
    • [​IMG] Manectric
    • [​IMG] Sandslash
    Low:
    • [​IMG] Cacturne
    • [​IMG] Dodrio
    • [​IMG] Floatzel
    • [​IMG] Magneton
    • [​IMG] Meganium
    • [​IMG] Nidoqueen
    • [​IMG] Quagsire
    • [​IMG] Whiscash
    B Rank: Reserved for Pokemon who are slightly above average in the NU metagame. These Pokemon have more notable flaws than of those above it that affects how they function in the tier. Their positive traits still outshine their negatives, but they require a bit more team support to bring out their full potential

    Top:
    • [​IMG] Drifblim
    • [​IMG] Electrode
    • [​IMG] Golduck
    • [​IMG] Golem
    • [​IMG] Hippopotas
    • [​IMG] Lapras
    • [​IMG] Ninetales
    • [​IMG] Politoed
    • [​IMG] Shiftry
    • [​IMG] Snover
    • [​IMG] Typhlosion
    • [​IMG] Venomoth
    • [​IMG] Victreebel
    Mid:
    • [​IMG] Cradily
    • [​IMG] Dusclops
    • [​IMG] Gabite
    • [​IMG] Glalie
    • [​IMG] Gorebyss
    • [​IMG] Piloswine
    • [​IMG] Pinsir
    • [​IMG] Poliwrath
    • [​IMG] Walrein
    Low:
    • [​IMG] Camerupt
    • [​IMG] Grumpig
    • [​IMG] Jumpluff
    • [​IMG] Linoone
    • [​IMG] Mantine
    • [​IMG] Marowak
    • [​IMG] Porygon2
    • [​IMG] Regice
    • [​IMG] Rhydon

    C Rank: Reserved for Pokemon that have notable niches in the NU metagame, but have just as notable flaws that prevent them from being top tier threats. Pokemon in the C tier often require significant support to be as effective as higher ranked Pokemon in NU. C rank Pokemon tend to face a lot of competition with the more commonly used Pokemon.

    Top:
    • [​IMG] Articuno
    • [​IMG] Banette
    • [​IMG] Electabuzz
    • [​IMG] Gastrodon
    • [​IMG] Glaceon
    • [​IMG] Machoke
    • [​IMG] Muk
    • [​IMG] Persian
    • [​IMG] Probopass
    • [​IMG] Purugly
    • [​IMG] Raichu
    • [​IMG] Roselia
    • [​IMG] Sharpedo
    • [​IMG] Slaking
    • [​IMG] Sneasel
    • [​IMG] Torkoal
    Mid:
    • [​IMG] Ampharos
    • [​IMG] Armaldo
    • [​IMG] Crawdaunt
    • [​IMG] Huntail
    • [​IMG] Kadabra
    • [​IMG] Lopunny
    • [​IMG] Mr. Mime
    • [​IMG] Monferno
    • [​IMG] Raticate
    • [​IMG] Relicanth
    • [​IMG] Xatu
    Low:
    • [​IMG] Bastiodon
    • [​IMG] Bellossom
    • [​IMG] Butterfree
    • [​IMG] Chatot
    • [​IMG] Dewgong
    • [​IMG] Dragonair
    • [​IMG] Flareon
    • [​IMG] Girafarig
    • [​IMG] Golbat
    • [​IMG] Luxray
    • [​IMG] Metang
    • [​IMG] Rampardos
    • [​IMG] Rapidash
    • [​IMG] Swalot
    • [​IMG] Vigoroth
    • [​IMG] Zangoose
    D Rank: Reserved for Pokemon that are below average in the NU metagame. These Pokemon often require very significant amounts of support with a relatively low reward compared to higher ranked Pokemon.


    Top:
    • [​IMG] Ariados
    • [​IMG] Bibarel
    • [​IMG] Exploud
    • [​IMG] Fearow
    • [​IMG] Granbull
    • [​IMG] Murkrow
    • [​IMG] Regigigas
    • [​IMG] Shelgon
    • [​IMG] Solrock
    Mid:
    • [​IMG] Kecleon
    • [​IMG] Lumineon
    • [​IMG] Lunatone
    • [​IMG] Pidgeot
    • [​IMG] Pelipper
    • [​IMG] Seaking
    • [​IMG] Shuckle
    • [​IMG] Tropius
    Low:
    • [​IMG] Arbok
    • [​IMG] Magcargo
    • [​IMG] Minun
    • [​IMG] Octillery
    • [​IMG] Plusle
    • [​IMG] Seviper
    • [​IMG] Wormadam-S

    Untested Rank: Reserved for pokemon that might have niches, but havent been sufficiently tested. Post your experiences with them here so we can give them a tier.
    and now onto: THE RULES.

    ~Rules~
    ~Only nominate viable Pokemon. We are not going to put every legal Pokemon in NU on the list. There is no reason to put stuff that no one will ever use.
    ~Post intelligently. Posts like "I think pokemon X should be in this tier" will not be tolerated
    ~No flaming
    ~No talk about editing the OFFICIAL smogon tier lists.
    ~Only pokemon in NU are up for nomination, pokemon in higher tiers are not allowed to be nominated, this should be common sense but lol
    Last edited: Jul 26, 2014
  2. Oglemi

    Oglemi Working hard
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  3. Aerodactyl Legend

    Aerodactyl Legend

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    I used to play DPP NU a lot back then (back in the Project NU days) and can say that Venomoth is far better than a C. Decent speed, Sleep Powder, Toxic Spikes, Baton Pass (for Agility) coverage moves, and Tinted Lens. A free turn for it is extremely dangerous for opponents. The SR weakness isn't too bad. Besides that, its only real issue is the four moveslot syndrome, but at least Tinted Lens patches that up a decent bit. I found it hard to make teams without it at one point because it was so good. Has that changed?
  4. Honko

    Honko
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    Moth is definitely better than C, I'd put it at B+ or A-.

    Not sure I agree with Jynx, Magmortar, and Skuntank in S. Jynx is great but has bad matchups with a lot of other top Pokemon. Magmortar is great but has strong competition for Fire-type with Zard and Typhlosion and isn't as good of a wallbreaker as Medicham. Skuntank is excellent at its role, but that role isn't as big as any other Pokemon in S or high A. I'd put all three of these guys in A+ and merge the 3 S-ranks into a single rank with Zard, Medicham, and Tauros.

    Other gut reactions:
    Hitmonchan, Hypno, Shiftry, Cradily, Dodrio, Golduck, Magneton, Jumpluff, Marowak, Gabite, Purugly, Persian, and Relicanth are too low.
    Manectric, Meganium (garb), Golem, Politoed, Rhydon, Victreebel, Glalie, Grumpig, Kadabra, Lopunny, Regigigas, Bellossom, and Dewgong are too high.

    Will post more later.
    MoxieInfinite likes this.
  5. BKC

    BKC
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    i think jynx and medicham are just as good as charizard :pirate:

    magmortar and haunter for high A

    manectric for mid A

    jumpluff for low B
    Jaiho likes this.
  6. Aerodactyl Legend

    Aerodactyl Legend

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    For Banders/Scarfers, Dodrio, Gabite, and Hitmonchan are really good and should be bumped. Jumpluff is a good disruptor. As for Venomoth, I'd rate it a high or mid A myself.
  7. Oglemi

    Oglemi Working hard
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    Made a bunch of shifts, disagree on moving Grumpig out of B+ just because it so completely stops most Charizard/Jynx/Magmortar/Manectric and checks Medicham, just without Wish, which is what Hypno outclasses it with.

    I don't want to move Meganium out of A rank because it is such a good stop to a wide variety of things, and the Ground resistance is sooooooooo nice compared to Vileplume who I will admit does most everything else better.

    I could probably move Dodrio and Gabite a bit higher, but I never liked using them myself just because Regirock and Gligar just shit on them, and most other offense mons have no problem revenge killing Gabite.
  8. NotHyunation

    NotHyunation

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    I would definitely move Pinsir to at least Low A. It's such an effective late game cleaner with it's great use of Choice Scarf. It's move set really shines in this meta that dominates with Charizard and Jynx. Bar the fact that you will most likely have rocks up, Jynx won't be able to retain a sash and get KO'd by a Stone Edge, as will Charizard. While it may not have its gem from Gen 5 known as Moxie, this guy was definitely huge as a fast(with scarf) sweeper late game.
    Last edited: Jul 16, 2014
  9. Honko

    Honko
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    Oglemi
    Some more thoughts, happy to discuss any of them. When I was on the fence about where to move something I generally picked the one that would be a bigger move, so I expect some of them went too far.

    I think Hypno should be high A as it's probably the best defensive Pokemon in the tier. It beats basically every special attacker except Haunter (and it can even OHKO that with Psychic if you want) and is also the safest counter to Medicham and Hitmonchan, only fearing Trick. If you don't have a Skuntank your team probably has trouble getting past Hypno.

    Nidoqueen down to high B. Gligar and Sandslash are generally better outside of hail/sand stall where T-Spikes are worth using. Nidoqueen's resistances are cool and she's the most viable (and one of very few viable) phazers, but almost everything whose STAB she can switch in on carries a super effective coverage move, and her attacks are laughably weak when they aren't super effective. She's a good Pokemon but not as good as the rest of A imo.

    Gastrodon seems too high. I would never use it as a defensive mon tbh, HP Grass is way too common on the Electrics and Fires it wants to wall, and all the other specially defensive Water-types have better utility moves. It has that ridiculous Linoone partner set but that's really niche. I might be missing something but I'd put Gastro somewhere in C.

    I still think Grumpig is too high as Hypno beats most of the same Pokemon and a lot more. Pig doesn't have recovery, it doesn't have Insomnia to actually beat Jynx, and it doesn't have the natural bulk to take on Fighting-types and special attackers at the same time the way Hypno can. It's less of an offensive liability than Hypno is, but if that's an issue I would just use Gardevoir. High C for Grumpig imo.

    Rhydon down to low B, Golem is better.

    Dodrio up to low A. Regirock (and Golem/Rhydon) shit on it, yes, but they have to check so much without having reliable recovery so they aren't that hard to wear down. Everything else is 2HKOed at worst, including Gligar and all the other Ground-types that don't resist Brave Bird. Return even 2HKOes 4 HP Magneton. This thing is ridiculously strong.

    Electabuzz down to...uhh...mid D? I'm not even sure it should be ranked. In UU I guess it had a tiny niche for being able to use SubPunch or Cross Chop to get past Chansey/Clefable, but in NU where most special walls resist Fighting it's just completely outclassed by Manectric.

    Golduck up to low A. It's a very solid offensive Pokemon even without taking into account how it destroys all four weathers' most dangerous threats with Cloud Nine and Encore.

    Magneton up to low A. Steel typing is awesome and so rare, it's really the only offensive Normal/Flying resist in the tier, and it's also one of the most powerful special attackers that isn't a Fire-type.

    Gabite up to mid B. Nothing walls this except lame Dusclops. Regirock gets 2HKOed by CB Earthquake unless it invests heavily in Defense (which it shouldn't). All the Steel-types in the tier are OHKOed by EQ and everything else is 2HKOed at worst by Outrage. It's very vulnerable to revenge killing, but it will probably kill at least one thing first.

    Butterfree, Kecleon, and Xatu should probably be on the list somewhere. Low C / Mid D / Mid C?
    Jirachee likes this.
  10. Oglemi

    Oglemi Working hard
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    Aight made changes

    Uncomfortable putting Queen below A because she's just such a good mon in the tier. She isn't really so niche because the Fighting + Rock resistance is just really nice to have, and idk I think Tspikes are more valuable than you'd give credit for overall since they're nice to throw on a more offensive team to wear down Slowking/Regi/Licki, despite that skunk and plume are super popular and absorb them almost every game, though skunk isn't going to switch into queen and plume really shouldn't be either.

    Also don't want to put Grumpig below B. He's outclassed but the Fire resistance + speed + power with a Specs/LO is a cool combo and is like having gard and slowking in the same slot in exchange for a little bit of power

    Don't really want to move Golduck above B since I never really felt like I would use him over Floatzel or Gard in almost any situation, but idk I could be convinced to move him up

    Ebuzz is outclassed but not a bad mon at all, and a double electric core with him as specs/scarf and manec as sub/scarf could be really good
  11. Honko

    Honko
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    I like Queen and will use her on certain teams but her resistances are better on paper than in practice in my experience. Both Fighting-types will beat her fairly easily unless you already know they're locked into a Fighting move, so she's a fairly shaky check to them. Rock moves are rare outside of Regirock (she handles him nicely until he explodes :heart:) and Ground-types who obviously have STAB EQ. She does do well against Electrics, especially ones that use HP Grass over HP Ice, but she needs SpDef investment to be a real counter. Basically she fits on teams easily because she can sort of check a lot of different things, but she's not a solid counter to anything, and for a Pokemon so lacking in offensive presence that often leads to disappointment.

    I'll defer to your judgment on Grumpig as I don't think I've ever used it and I rarely faced it.

    Golduck is a way better weather counter than Gardevoir since it beats pretty much everything whereas Gard really only beats Rain and Victreebel. It's also a better standalone CM sweeper imo thanks to higher speed and stronger STAB and more reliable coverage, plus the option of using Encore to set up easier. And Floatzel is kind of a weird comparison imo, Golduck can't do what Floatzel does but Floatzel can't do what Golduck does either. I still think it belongs in low A. It's definitely better than everything else in B with the possible exceptions of Typhlosion (who is only down there because of competition) and Venomoth.

    D was probably a little harsh for Buzz, but even if I was gonna use a double Electric core with Manectric I'd always take Magneton or Raichu or even Electrode over Ebuzz. They all bring something cool to the table to help eliminate Manectric's counters or sweep after Manectric weakens theirs. Buzz doesn't bring anything to the table except being a weaker copy of Manectric, and Manectric isn't nearly dominant enough for that to be worthwhile imo. I would still move Buzz down to low C.

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