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Gen 4 DPP OU General Metagame Discussion

Discussion in 'Ruins of Alph' started by Aerodactyl Legend, May 6, 2014.

  1. BKC

    BKC
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    band scarf mix are the 3 mostly seen yea. the toxic roost and physical lo roost sets are also pretty good but no one uses them...
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  2. Aerodactyl Legend

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    I only see them scarfed myself for the most part. Not too many mixes and even less bands. The mixed sets aren't that scary, really. You'll see the recoil and know he'll be switching moves, though with less power than other Pokemon. I'd be much more afraid of the band, as the Outrage and Earthquake hit pretty hard with Adamant. I've used it on a couple teams and it's nice mid/late game (try it with Gravity, it's fun). Problem with either set is the speed and possibility of giving away free turns because you used the wrong move. Scarf can be thrown on most teams, the other two, build them to maximize their potential.

    I've picked up Choice Band Tyranitar again and he bashes holes in pretty much anything. Even without the speed, his bulk, Rock-typing, and sandstorm boost keep it on the field and he's never taken down in any sort of speed (unless by Fighting moves). Don't use the on-site EV spread though. Max HP and put a little into its defenses at the cost of some Attack. Because of the Band, it won't be that much weaker.
  3. Hollywood

    Hollywood she's thin, she's blonde, she says "wow" a lot
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    I've been playing the PS ladder, so I guess take this as you will. But I've mostly seen Scarf Flygon, which I don't really get because I honestly think that it is Flygon's weakest set. I actually really like Mixed LO Flygon a lot, and I've been using it tons. I think just going back from BW/XY, I really don't like locking into moves until I know 4-5 of the opponent's team and can logically guess what types of Pokemon the opponent will have left. Although on the PS ladder, anything goes most of the time. @_@
  4. Twisted Kneebar

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    Scarf 99% of the time. It's a fantastic revenge killer and scout, have to disagree with you Hollywood. Pretty sure the only non scarfed Flygon I saw recently might have been CB'ed because of how much damage it did.

    CB Tar is great. I used to run the classic 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Sp. Def as a wallbreaker and if needed, a counter/trap to the standard rapid spin Starmie. I'd come in on anything that wasn't Surf and if they stay in, easily eat a Surf and KO with Pursuit. If they switched out, even better, no damage for me. Hella bulky, not even Banded Dugtrio was finishing it in one hit. He's too slow to run speed on that set, in my opinion. If you're that worried about Skarm, pack Fire Punch. I always ran Aqua Tail to hit Tyranitar "counters" on the switch, unreal damage. Oh yeah, don't try switching him on a life orb Starmie or even a spinner set with Hydro Pump. He's bulky... Just not that bulky.
  5. BKC

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    i like to run speed somewhere in the 180s for skarms. stone edge hits it just as hard as fire punch and if youre faster you cant get roost stalled as it switches in. outrunning breloom with minimal speed investment/quiet mixnite is a nice bonus. as for the last move i use superpower for good neutral cvg although aqua tail is also solid.
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  6. dice

    dice RAP GAME GiTTARACKUR
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    band flygon + mixtar is a rly cool core i've been diggin recently (fire blast / superpower / crunch / pursuit @ lum usually max spe max atk)

    it's kinda hard to justify both sets on one team, but i have a couple teams w/ it. u definitely have to build around it to get it to work. mixtar is great for luring in stuff like skarmory and pursuits one of the most common eq immunes in rotom. bandflygon can break through hippo with a few uturns + hazards, same with most bulky waters.

    also @ bandtar i always like to run speed to 2hko skarmory and outspeed -spe dragonite leads like bkc said
  7. Twisted Kneebar

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    Yeah the speed is a logical thing to do, I just prefer the bulk because of the way I played it.

    Are there any sets you guys know of that you think most people are seriously not prepared for? For example: A few months ago some guy climbed to #1 on PS simply because of his Endeavor Infernape lead. No one knew how to handle it but once people caught on he slowly dropped.
  8. Aerodactyl Legend

    Aerodactyl Legend

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    Lesser known sets or niche/gimmick stuff that can catch people by surprise?

    Couple ways to answer this. For the known stuff, the obvious ones to not be unprepared for are guys like Breloom, Gliscor, or Suicune for example. Always have a counter/protocol for those three or you'll be sorry.

    I'm assuming you're referring to underused sets though (because of the Infernape). Personally, it's tough to give a solid answer from everyone as a whole. We see different things and get different results. Something I've been using is Trick+Iron Ball Metagross. The great thing about it is that unlike the Choice Items, Iron Ball has an extremely miniscule chance of providing any negative effects. While it's not as crippling as throwing a choice item on a wall, anything can be affected by the ball. Speed is lowered, the lose their item, and their immunity to ground attacks. They'll almost never see it coming so you'll be able to catch his normal counters easily and weaken them for the rest of the match. Just an example.
    Last edited: May 20, 2014
  9. LizardMan

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    I like Reflect on Bold Starmie since I feel like it does more. It is less of a sitting duck, it supports the team, and has amazing synergy with bulky sweepers like CB Tar or walls like SpDef Venusaur. Starmie forces a ton of switches and gets a Reflect on large amounts of pokemon which can't threaten it.

    I don't use Thunderbolt as much since I don't see much of a use for it besides the quick kill on Gyarados or other Starmie. Reflect is good against Breloom or physically based teams which use Infernape + Flygon or something.

    I generally use 252 hp / 200 def / 56 spe on it with Bold. I like the extra physical defense since Starmie is a pokemon I generally like to throw it into physical things constantly since it has Recover. If I run Thunderbolt, I run 60 Spe and take a point out of HP. I don't run the special attack BKC runs since I run that Starmie with Sand almost every time, and I hate Flygon since its really good (and not overrated like people were saying in 2010...) I also want to tank CB Tar as well as possible, since CB Tar + abuser teams have been really strong for a while now.

    Its just personal preference really. Just mix and match and use whatever you would like for your team.

    Edit:I like 252 HP on CB Tyranitar since his special defense is massive and every HP point makes him tons tankier. Although if im weak to Skarmory, I happily run the extra speed that BKC runs. Outrunning random threats wins you random games from time to time. I like 252 HP though since I play my CB Tar like a man and keep it in against defensive Shaymins and Vaporeons sometimes. Scarf Flygons locked into Outrage too.

    I also agree with George182 and really like Reflect Rotom with Rest/Talk too. For the same reasons I like Reflect on Starmie. The Standard Defensive/Talk Rotom is just too much of a sitting duck for my tastes.
    Last edited: May 18, 2014
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  10. Tomahawk

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    I think Flygon is amazing Mixed or Choice Band, first set is great on balance because with Roost it can actually switch in on some stuff, and it will usually get a kill even now that it is prepared for. People are pretty much too forced to predict around it to bring in something that outspeeds, so you need to be able to get it in a couple of times and you will almost certainly get a KO with it, possibly more. Choice Band Flygon just hits really hard with amazing Dual STAB and U-turn.

    As for Choice Scarf, it's still relatively good but I don't really use it that much. It doesn't really revenge kill all the things I usually want my revenge killer to KO, namely Lucario (big), Gyarados, Shuca Tyranitar, Adamant LO Dragonite and Swords Dance Scizor. It does revenge kill Kingdra, Empoleon and Infernape though, which is a plus.

    But if you look at common Choice Scarfers, you can see one thing in common for most of them. Jirachi, Rotom-A, Heatran, Tyranitar, Magnezone. They all resist ExtremeSpeed so they can revenge kill Lucario. Lucario is just so big imo to revenge kill, it's really annoying if you don't have a (backup) check for it in your Scarfer so you really need a team that already handles Lucario.

    (Also yes they are not the only Scarfers, there are also Raikou, Infernape, Scizor, Lucario, Gengar, and Metagross but that's still 4/6 resisting ExtremeSpeed).
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  11. Twisted Kneebar

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    I was speaking lesser known sets but gimmicks are valid too.

    And yeah, I've been using CroCune and it's ridiculous how many people are underprepared for it. I built the whole team around out but a lot of times I just sweep from the get-go.

    Speaking of Raikou... Underrated Scarfmon. His only really good set for the current metagame, imo. And he outspeeds Scarf Flygon with a Rash nature, which has netted me a lot of surprise kills. I noticed that his current analysis doesnt mention that and thats probably why most people dont know it. He can do at least 50% to most of the metagame.
  12. Tooks

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    Which scarfmon can take out all of those?
  13. dadoux

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  14. Tomahawk

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    Well technically I suppose Scarf Jirachi with Iron Head and the elemental punches can take out all of those like Morpheus said. As well as Lucario with Thunderpunch.

    Though, I didn't mean to say that a Scarfer must be able to revenge kill all of those mentioned threats. I was just noting that for the Pokémon that I usually want revenge killed when building my team, I often feel like Flygon misses out on some of these, so I usually don't use him as my Scarfer. This might just as well be because of how I build my teams, of course.
  15. Aerodactyl Legend

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    I think part of it has to do with the BW2 metagame. By the time Genesect came out, a lot of people started opting for scarfers with U-turn (or Volt Switch) than those without it. I think that mindset sort of carried on to DPP at that time (and a little after Genesect's ban) and has stayed since.
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  16. Tooks

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    Ah fair enough.



    Back when DPP was still fairly active, I ran Specs Starmie. Hydropump/Tbolt/Icebeam/Trick. Hydropump pretty much rips through anything that doesn't resist it/specially defensive. IIRC, Scizor,Breloom,Tyranitar,Machomp,Rotom,Skarmory are all OHKO after SR. It fails to do massive damage to specially defensive Tentacruel though.
  17. dadoux

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    Jirachi has a big 4mss:

    Iron head is the obvious stabb.
    Ice punch for Dragonite/gliscor/flygon, it's the best elementary punch since checking Dragonite in OU is really tough if YOUR (wtf you're) team don't pack some shit like Bold suicune Ice beam
    Thunderpunch is great for Gyarados/Empoleon since it's not that easy to check too, you can replace it with fire punch but imo scizor and lucario are easier to deal with
    But the 4th slot...

    U-turn is great for not being locked, trick cripples stall teams because jirachi let them set-up too many entry hazards, fire punch kills SDscizor/luke/magnezone and you can also try zen headbutt if your team is really scared of infernape/all-out breloom or if you wanna flinch Kingdra with a x1 move.

    But it's still a nice Revenge killer.
    Last edited: May 31, 2014
  18. Tomahawk

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    Well I wouldn't say Jirachi has a bad 4mss, in fact it benefits from it. Really the only mandatory move is Iron Head and for the other three slots you can just decide what you want. You want to be able to revenge kill Gyarados? Use ThunderPunch. Want to revenge kill Lucario and Scizor? Use Fire Punch. Want to be able to revenge kill Dragonite? Use Ice Punch. Are you somewhat weak to stall but have no problems with Gyarados? Replace ThunderPunch with Trick. Only need two of these four moves because you aren't stall weak and don't care about Gyarados and Dragonite? Or do you want Jirachi to be a solid scout? Awesome, you can use U-turn. Heck, you could even place Stealth Rock on there somewhere, if your team is defensively solid enough to get away with not being able to revenge kill some things.
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  19. dadoux

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    It's both good and bad. Personally i can't think of playing jirachi without u-turn just because of the momentum it brings and the fact that spinning is becoming pretty hard so i'd rather have an pressuring edge over defensives teams with skarmory than revenge killing something annoying.

    I'd rather being swept than stalled but yeah, Jirachi rk a lot of things.
  20. Jirachee

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    drop roost
    use outrage

    outrage is rly good. it means you can 2hko blissey without using a lot of attack with only sand and sr, while eq requires you to have something like a row of spikes, sr, and sand AND catch it on the switch unless you want to use a really slow / specially weak spread which is probably gonna be terrible. outrage also means that ground resists don't really threaten you out after a spa drop from dm (think like np celebi) because you still have a powerful attack to slam them with. given that flygon is pretty much immune to residual damage I don't think losing roost is that big of a deal
  21. BKC

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    youre welcome for that set, fag

    confirming outrage mixgon rules. originally i tried it on dragonite but turns out that shit sucks so i went with flygon since i was annoyed by the sr weak and the results are great, also having stab on eq is amazing so defensive heatran/jirachi cant get cute. 2hkoing sdef hippo switchins is fantastic.
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  22. Tooks

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    I'm gonna definitely try that out. You used the same ev spread here right? http://www.smogon.com/dp/pokemon/flygon
  23. BKC

    BKC
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    no because theres no point to running a mix gon that cant outspeed gliscor. i used 40 atk / 252 satk / 216 spe naive.
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  24. Tooks

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    Any notable KOs missed with the loss in attack?
  25. Tomahawk

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    Outrage is certainly a solid option in the last slot, but for the team I'm using it in (Choice Scarf Roserade / Specially Defensive Heatran / Specially Defensive Skarmory / Choice Scarf Rotom-W / Calm Mind + Roar Suicune / Mixed Flygon), it does need to pull its weight defensively sometimes as well, as backup Tyranitar / Heatran / etc. check if my proper switchin is gone. Depends on the team though, if you don't really need Roost Outrage is definitely amazing.

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