Gen 4 DPP OU General Metagame Discussion

#51
Outrage on mix goon isn't all glory. Yes it solves a lot of mix goons problems, namely blissey and sp. def physical walls such as hippowdon as mentioned above. But it doesn't ohko them, which is a problem when they are commonly paired with either skarmory or forretress. Suddenly mix flygons greatest strengths against stall (switching attacks and saying "fuck you" to entry hazards) become his biggest weakness.

That said, due to his entry hazard resistance and immunity to sandstorm, roost is often a wasted slot anyway.
 
#52
Even at -2 Forretress takes a shitload of damages from Fire blast, and obviously Flygon can't destroy stall teams lol.

Btw, by talking about popular things, gengar is better than ever in today's metagame, every set are awesome.
 
#53
Even at -2 Forretress takes a shitload of damages from Fire blast, and obviously Flygon can't destroy stall teams lol.

Btw, by talking about popular things, gengar is better than ever in today's metagame, every set are awesome.
I guess I was too vague, there is no opportunity to fireblast. Below is an example scenario:

Flygon vs Blissey
Flygon uses Outrage, Blissey takes 44.3% - 52.2%
Blissey doesn't use softboiled or ice beam, let's pretend it just switched in.

Blissey switches to Skarmory/Forretress
Flygon uses Outrage again (it's locked in)

50% of the time they can now rapid spin, spike, toxic spike completely prediction free. That is detrimental when facing a stall team, meanwhile their blissey isn't out of the game and merely needs one softboiled. This is with you predicting their switch to Blissey, it's even worse if they predict your outrage and go straight to Skarm. They also have the option of going to something that can KO flygon. Constantly giving your opponent a 50% chance to take an advantage in the game is bad pokemon.

Outrage is still a good option, it's just not as good as it was on Mix Mence. The difference between Flygon and Outrage Mix Mence is that Mence does enough damage to completely cripple Blissey and psuedo take her out of the game, making the above scenario much more worth it.


Another option that seems underrated is u-turn because Blissey and Hippowdon etc. are very easy to take advantage of.
 
#54
Oh yeah obviously you're locked lol, my bad

Flygon is usually the easiest offensive mon to deal with for stall teams with the Scarfgon set, at least this one can be scary with proper pressure
 
#55
This is just me but I personally wouldn't use mix Flygon with the idea of beating stall. IMO it is easy for a good player to play around it once the secret is out. And most stall is using Blissey and bulky Gyarados, it's so damn easy to beat mix Flygon with that pair. I'd rather use it to punch holes in my opponents team along with SR for so it is easier for a set up sweeper to do its thing. Mix Flygon is damn good but it's not MixMence, it's not packing so much power that you can still be a threat to a good player after they see the LO damage.

If ya want go give stall a hard time, use Crobat. I've played against clearly superior players who used stall and I'd manage to be competitive only because I was using Crobat. Still lost but I was never really out of the battle. I've also 6-0ed much less proficient stall players because of it.
 

Warped Worlds

formerly Lizardman
is a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Past WCoP Champion
#56
Mix Flygon is more of an anti semi stall mon. Or an anti balance mon imo. Teams which are more resistant based and not focused on raw stats (im thinking about Blissey and Hippowdon) have more difficulty with it.

Roost is not a wasted slot on Mix Flygon due to LO recoil, SR damage, and due to Flygon's solid resistences. Outrage is the icing in the cake, but Roost makes you much harder to wear down vs teams which dont say "hey fuck you im faster and stronger than you." to Flygon. Weak hits from defensive pokemon or Scarf Tar gives Roost a good amount of merit.
 
#58
Few months ago, I was running Gyarados and Hitmontop. Dual Intimidate and Rapid Spin helping Gyarados out. Throw in a Steel to complete the core and it's pretty good on its own. Do what you want to support it.
 
#60
Most of the cores I use consist of three or more pokes, but here's a few combo's:

Skarm - Swampert
Great typing synergy, excellent for getting entry hazards up. This is like my go to combo.

Blissey - Gliscor
Sp.def gliscor does a really good job of covering blisseys weaknesses (fighting types, tyranitar, scizor, mix attackers etc). Gliscor also helps against anti blissey special attackers like cm jirachi. More people should use this combo.
 
#61
What does a Sp. Def Gliscor set look like?


252 HP / 4 Def / 252 Sp. Def
Roost
Earthquake
???
???

Like that? Sp. Def Hippowdown can cover T-tar and CM Rachi though it struggles against powerful STAB fighting attacks. I've never considered Sp. Def Gliscor although there was a time where I didn't know what a beast Sp. Def Hippowdon is so perhaps I can try it out.
 
#63
Guys. What is the best rapid spinner after Starmie and Forry? I love Forry but he would be dead weight offensively and make my team worse and I've gotten tired of Bold Starmie since dudes have been running more than just Scarftar lately, making it harder to play with it.
 
#65
Tentacruel, it actually checks some threats or can bring some offensive support if you want it to do so.
Thanks, I figured that'd be my only option. I was thinking Hitmontop but I don't like running him w/o Gyara. Bonus point for Tentacruel ridding the field of TSpikes without spinning. I'll see if it fits in.
 
#66
I'm not too sure about Tentacruel. It just gets worn down and it doesn't provide much offensive power besides the obvious Hydro Pump and Ice Beam. Not like there are many choices though. After them you only got like, what, Donphan and other niche UU stuff.
 
#67
donphan is great because unlike hitmontop he doesn't have his lefties cancelled by sand so his inability to heal isn't as bad. electric immunity, actual good damage output (for example its eq is stronger than hippo and pert) and access to sr are also nice. tentacruel sucks shit!
 
#68
This might sound kinda dumb. I really like using DD Dragonite, but I don't really know enough good offensive partners for it. I mainly just use dragon spam or Magnezone support.

Obviously removing steels is a good idea. But you can't really lump all steels together. Also water types and ground types can stop it like Swampert, Suicune and Flygon.

So my question, what do people use to partner DD Dragonite?
 
#69
dd tar to weaken waters. also with the right resist berry + moveset it can take out a revenge killer that would also fuck with nite.
 
#70
donphan is great because unlike hitmontop he doesn't have his lefties cancelled by sand so his inability to heal isn't as bad. electric immunity, actual good damage output (for example its eq is stronger than hippo and pert) and access to sr are also nice. tentacruel sucks shit!
I like Donphan, I really do but were gonna have to start experimenting with new sets because Assurance is shit, Donphan has shit Sp. Def and the typing to make his shit Sp. Def really stand out. I really wanted to try out the sites set since I've always been a fan but I wasnt aware of how Assurance mechanics worked; I thought it would be similar to running Payback Forry but it's not.

This might sound kinda dumb. I really like using DD Dragonite, but I don't really know enough good offensive partners for it. I mainly just use dragon spam or Magnezone support.

Obviously removing steels is a good idea. But you can't really lump all steels together. Also water types and ground types can stop it like Swampert, Suicune and Flygon.

So my question, what do people use to partner DD Dragonite?
I can't give you a great answer because I run the same shit you do but just reading those 3 threats, I noticed Abomasnow w/ Ice Shard can threaten all of them. Also, Spikes support threatens all the bulky waters and grounds that switch into DNite. Oh and that reminds me that Abomasnow can hurt Hippowdon. Only thing is that's 2 SR weak pokemon which makes it a must to run Rapid Spin, which will limit your options. Also, I'm assuming by Dragon spam you mean double dragon dance/double dragons? That's still viable if you havent tried it.
 
#71
I like Donphan, I really do but were gonna have to start experimenting with new sets because Assurance is shit, Donphan has shit Sp. Def and the typing to make his shit Sp. Def really stand out. I really wanted to try out the sites set since I've always been a fan but I wasnt aware of how Assurance mechanics worked; I thought it would be similar to running Payback Forry but it's not.
Head smash Donphan sounds like the mon for you, letting you check more stuff while hitting Rotom hard enough.
 
#72
This might sound kinda dumb. I really like using DD Dragonite, but I don't really know enough good offensive partners for it. I mainly just use dragon spam or Magnezone support.

Obviously removing steels is a good idea. But you can't really lump all steels together. Also water types and ground types can stop it like Swampert, Suicune and Flygon.

So my question, what do people use to partner DD Dragonite?
Scizor is a pretty obvious answer, since you can check Flygon pretty nicely and rack some hp from swampert / suicune with u-turn. Infernape is cool too...basically everything with u-turn and an ice-type resist is a nice teammate. Superachi with Shuca berry is also pretty good to weaken and/or bait Flygon / Swampert
 
#73
Yeah, a mixed attacker that can lure and beat bulky water types/Flygon/Jirachi (cause Flygon and Jirachi are the main scarfers that threaten DDNite, unless you count Rotom-A Freezer Forme), would be really great with DDNite. MixTar and MixRachi fit the bill here really nicely, as Tar especially is able to lure Swampert and Flygon, Suicune to a lesser degree, while Scarf Jirachi.....you can sack MixTar once the secret it out and leave Jirachi locked into Iton Head, allowing you to DD up on it and Roost off the damage, flinch sucks though. MixRachi lures Pert and Flygon really well too, and can more reliably crush Pert with Grass Knot, while it can't really lure Cune, it can set up Nite quite nicely by locking Scarf Jirachi into Fire Punch. Since neither of these two comprehensively beat defensive Cune, Vaporeon is nice for walling/Toxicing it, plus can Wish Pass to DDNite, which is nice for switching in on SR (though a spinner and a hazard setter would be nice too).
 
Last edited:
#74
mixtar lures swampert and suicune but doesnt really do anything to them. jirachi isnt flinching dragonite through inner focus.
 
#75
mixtar lures swampert and suicune but doesnt really do anything to them. jirachi isnt flinching dragonite through inner focus.
I was figuring pack Grass Knot, and Water resist berry+some HP EVs, cause I'm used to tailoring my mixed attackers to remove certain mons. And Iron Head is still annoying cause it does quite a bit of damage....yeah MixRachi would probably be the better option now I think about it, MixTar is viable though.