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DPP OU Metagame Analysis Feb 09

Discussion in 'Metagame Analysis' started by Legacy Raider, Feb 23, 2009.

  1. Legacy Raider

    Legacy Raider
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    The DPP metagame has started to stabilize somewhat. Many changes have happened to Standard play - some from the new additions Platinum brought to the game at the beginning of September 08, others from testing and tier changes for certain pokemon - and the environment that we are left with is vastly different from the DP one from a couple of months ago. In this analysis I will examine and try to reason out the metagame trends that have shaped the face of OU, and resulted in the game we play today.


    Firstly, a quick summary of the relevant changes that Platinum brought to OU:

    • A couple of new formes of pokemon were introduced, including Shaymin-S, a more offense based version of Shaymin, and several new Rotom formes, each with higher offensive and defensive stats than the original Rotom and each with a signature move.
    • The accuracy of the move Hypnosis was lowered from 70% to 60%.
    • Many pokemon gained access to new moves, most prominently Scizor to Bullet Punch, Salamence, Kingdra and Flygon to Outrage, and the multitude of Psychic-type pokemon to Trick.

    After initial testing, Shaymin-S was narrowly voted to Uber. Latias has been the most recent addition to OU and has caused quite a stir, and Latios is currently being tested. All in all, the metagame has started to settle down while remaining dynamic and exciting, and in my opinion is an enjoyable and varied environment at this moment in time.

    The metagame does seem to be quite healthy - a lot of different strategies are being utilized, ranging anywhere from reckless rain offense to pure stall. No one kind of strategy seems to be domineering at the moment, although the majority of teams right now tend to use bulky offense, with pokemon such as Zapdos, Heatran, Rotom-a, and Metagross common on a lot of teams.

    [​IMG] [​IMG]

    Scizor undoubtedly had one of the biggest increases in usage in the last couple of months, shooting from low OU/BL straight up to the number one spot with the addition of Bullet Punch and Superpower to its arsenal. In early DPP, the offensive Swords Dance set with Life Orb was all the rage, but now, especially with the addition of Latias, the Choice Bander seems to be becoming more popular. It is really the versatility of how Scizor can be played that makes it as popular as it is; that, and the vast number of opposing Pokemon it keeps in check. From cracking open teams with U-turn in the midgame, to revenge killing powerful threats such as Latias and Gengar with Pursuit, to finally sweeping in the late game with its Technician Bullet Punch, Scizor is unarguably a formidable Pokemon. It is largely responsible for the metagame shift to bulky offense - pure out offense is far too frail and loses too easily to Scizor's iron fists.

    [​IMG] [​IMG]

    Salamence vies with Scizor for dominance over OU. Platinum brought it a destructive new toy in Outrage to add to its box of tricks. With the high power of Outrage at its side, it has become notoriously difficult to counter. The bulky waters that could previously recover off damage from Dragon Claw cannot stand up to the increased base power of Salamence's new favourite physical STAB. Many players choose to deal with Salamence by enticing it into an Outrage and switching in a Steel type to resist it, but even things like Heatran can take over half their health in damage from a +1 LO Outrage. Scizor is now a vital tool in keeping Salamence in check with its Bullet Punch.

    While the Dragon Dance set is destructive, mixed sweeper Salamence are almost equally as common and dangerous. They act as stallbreakers for offensive teams, and now tend to be as fast as max speed with a beneficial nature, just to ensure a tie at worst with opposing base 100s such as Zapdos and Jirachi. With Latias entering the scene, though, I predict there will be fewer and fewer of these MixMences, as not only are they vulnerable to being revenged by Latias without a way to boost their speed, Latias arguably does the "special attacking Dragon with Draco Meteor" role better. Nevertheless, Salamence remains and will remain one of OU's most threatening mixed sweepers.

    [​IMG] [​IMG]

    With the great resistances provided by its typing and its useful Fire STAB, Heatran continues to play the role of a jack of all trades revenge killer. Commonly scarfed, Heatran is often called upon to revenge a whole manner of targets, ranging from Salamence with HP Ice / Dragon Pulse, to Scizor and Lucario with Fire Blast / Earth Power. Although Shaymin-S has been removed from standard play, the majority of scarfed Heatran continue to run +speed natures, if only to get the jump on opposing Heatran. However, there is another, rather strange, set that has been seeing quite a lot of use recently - Substitute Toxic Heatran. It has been shown to be effective in crippling its common Water-type switchins, allowing other sweepers to break past them with a lot more ease. With the addition of Latias into OU, Heatran can no longer Fire Blast its way through teams as easily as it once could. Latias takes little from anything Heatran has to throw at it bar Explosion, and can hit it back with a strong Surf.

    With the abundance of Steel-typed leads, such as Jirachi and Metagross, Heatran is often seen as a lead itself in order to deal with them. It usually carries Stealth Rock and sometimes Explosion, and is a useful anti-metagame lead right now.

    [​IMG]

    Latias itself has caused quite a stir in OU. It came and filled a long sought after special defense niche, keeping Zapdos, Heatran, and Infernape in check. While rarely seen on full out stall or offensive teams, Latias finds its place on balanced teams, its typing providing useful resistances to play with and its support moves helping the rest of its team. Between Draco Meteor and Surf, Latias hits the majority of OU for at least neutral damage. Latias has been used in many different ways - dual screens supporter, defensive CMer (who can beat Blissey with Refresh), offensive CMer, Choice Specs, etc. But, as predicted, its Dark weak has held it back, and is commonly revenge killed by CB Tyranitar and Scizor.

    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]

    The Rotom formes have brought with them the downfall of the viability of Rapid Spinning. Hailed as the 'best spin blockers' in OU, they can generally defeat the common Rapid Spinners one on one. They are very well balanced pokemon - bulky, relatively fast, and quite hard hitting - and their typing provides them with some excellent resists and immunities. Rotom-H has seen the most use out of all the formes, with its Overheat useful in hitting Lucario and Scizor, the latter for which Rotom is an excellent counter because of its Steel resist and Fighting immunity. Rotom often carry Will-O-Wisp to cripple physical attackers, in particular the Tyranitar that love to switch in to try and Pursuit them. They too can set up dual screens, and some Rotom have started carrying Trick and a Choice Scarf to deal with Blissey, as well as giving them the speed to revenge kill a host of normally faster threats.

    [​IMG] [​IMG]

    Flygon has had a spike of popularity out of the blue, but really, is it surprising? With Garchomp's absence, Flygon really has an opportunity to shine. Ground / Dragon is one of the best dual typings in the game, granting Flygon two excellent STABs to work with, as well as only two weaknesses. Add to that Levitate, which gives Flygon an immunity to Spikes, Toxic Spikes, as well as resistance to the EdgeQuake attacking combination, and you have a pokemon that is both powerful and long lasting. The majority of Flygon tend to have a Choice Scarf, so much so that whenever they see Flygon, most players tend to automatically assume it is sitting at 400+ speed. This opens the door for other forms of Flygon, in particular +speed Choice Banders, to take the current metagame by surprise. U-turn gives offensive teams plenty of advantageous switches, and Earthquake and Outrage combine to hit most things for neutral damage at least. All in all, it isn't surprising that Flygon has become so popular.

    [​IMG] [​IMG]

    Players have speculated that Infernape's time in the spotlight is over, with the coming of Latias. There is very little Infernape can do to beat Latias - it has a higher base speed, resists both its STABs, can KO Infernape with Surf, and Infernape struggles to 2HKO it even with a super effective HP Ice. Because of this, Infernape has generally been relegated to the lead position, where it still does a good job of setting up SR and taking out opposing leads (even more so now with all the Steel leads around). However, the fact remains that Infernape is one of the most dangerous sweepers in OU and can take out unprepared teams in the blink of an eye. Just be assured that if you ever see a sweeper Infernape, a Pursuit user to take out Latias will not be far behind it.

    [​IMG] [​IMG]

    Lucario is as dangerous as ever. Don't be fooled by the notion that it is now 'outclassed' by Scizor. Scizor may have a stronger priority, but little can blast its way through stall teams and weakened teams in general like a LO Lucario. While the standard set of SD / Close Combat / Extremespeed / Crunch has remained virtually unchanged, a few Lucario users have opted to give it a +speed nature and Ice Punch to deal with Salamence and Gliscor (rarely seen). Specs Lucario is pretty much non-existent in the metagame.

    [​IMG] [​IMG]

    Zapdos gained a valuable coverage move in Heat Wave, which allows it to check the majority of Steel types, such as Metagross, Jirachi, Scizor, and Lucario, quite effectively. Offensive Zapdos, while quite popular during early DPP, has died down due to the addition of Latias, who walls it soundly. Now, more and more Zapdos are reverting to the bulky sets they ran in DP, but this time with the aim of providing a Fighting and Steel type check for the team. The amount of Zapdos running HP Grass and HP Ice is around about equal. HP Grass variants get the hit on Swampert and Rhyperior, whereas with HP Ice, Zapdos can touch Latias and Flygon. Swampert is already scared of switching into Zapdos because of the previous popularity of HP Grass, so I predict that more Zapdos will start running HP Ice in response to the surge in Flygon and Latias usage.

    [​IMG] [​IMG]

    Blissey still walls the hell out of most special attackers, and is as annoying as ever. It has found new uses with the rising popularity of Empoleon and Latias, although the latter can be geared to beat Blissey through a combination of Calm Mind, Recover, and Refresh. Wish Bliss is very popular as one of the few viable users of that move, although Wish Latias has started to give her some competition, and Wish Vaporeon is also pretty common. Blissey continues to run SpD EVs to take on the strong special attackers of DPP, and a lot of Blissey have begun to run a combination of Flamethrower and Toxic, allowing it to touch most things in OU, in particular Steel threats such as Scizor and Lucario (on the switchin). This does make a lot of Blissey incredibly vulnerable to Taunt Heatran, although they remain quite rare.

    [​IMG] [​IMG]

    Gengar has had a large fall from grace from the times it used to sit at the top of the OU roster. The drop in Hypnosis' accuracy really hit it hard, something which the addition of Trick did little to mitigate. Scizor can revenge kill it almost assuredly now, putting it in the trouble position of "Will it Bullet Punch or will it Pursuit?" Now, with the addition of Latias, there is even less reason to use Gengar, as it is yet another thing that threatens to outspeed Gengar, while being able to take a Shadow Ball itself. Still, despite these apparent flaws, Gengar's rareness has caused many players to disregard it as a threat while constructing teams, and so a LO Gengar with Explosion in particular can cause a lot of damage in the present metagame.

    [​IMG] [​IMG]

    Finally gaining some physical STAB, Dragon Dance Outrage Kingdra has become the most common set it runs. Although with weaker offensive stats than its fellow dragons, Kingdra's typing sets it apart from them by not being weak to Ice, as well as having STAB on Water, an excellent type for Dragon attacks to be paired with. The most common sets tend to be Dragon Dance / Outrage / Waterfall / Substitute, usually holding Leftovers to recover off substitute HP loss, and have proven to be deadly late game sweepers. Because of the popularity of physical Kingdra, people have started to forget that it has an equal Special Attack stat, and so MixDra does take a lot of its common switchins by storm with Draco Meteor.

    [​IMG] [​IMG]

    With all the Steels running amuck, Magnezone has been found to be exceedingly useful paired up with Salamence or Latias. Many Magnezone are scarfed and run HP Fire for the OHKO on Scizor, although some Substitute / Magnet Rise sets remain. Because of the popularity of the magnet, quite a few Skarmory and Forretress have taken to running Shed Shell over Leftovers.

    [​IMG] [​IMG]

    Gyarados hasn't changed too much from DP, with the sole addition of Bounce to its movepool being the only thing of note. A STAB Bounce, despite its disadvantageous one-turn charge, can do a good number on Celebi, meaning Gyarados can now severely damage one of its best counters. Another very useful role for Gyarados is as a Scizor check, and one of its only physical based ones. With resistances to Steel, Bug, and Fighting, as well as Intimidate, Gyarados can switch in on most Scizor with ease. Whereas offensive LO Gyarados remains a popular set, more and more bulkier version that eschew Life Orb for Leftovers have begun to appear. Rest Sleep Talk Gyarados is also not too uncommon, and allows Gyarados to really make the most of its utility as a check on Scizor, Heatran, and most Fighting-types.

    [​IMG] [​IMG]

    [​IMG] [​IMG]

    [​IMG] [​IMG]

    With its niche position as one of the best Wish passers in OU, Vaporeon is still a common sight. Its role as a great Gyarados, Heatran, and Infernape counter is still as needed as ever. Ice Beam and HP Electric are used about the same amount, but I predict more Vaporeon reverting to Ice Beam as its preferred secondary attack with Latias' coming. Starmie is no longer the end-all revenge killer it once was. After a Dragon Dance, Salamence becomes too fast and strong to revenge kill, and Flygon is commonly scarfed. With the coming of Latias into OU (who Starmie struggles to 2HKO), Gengar is commonly scarfed as well, meaning that the pool of Pokemon that a defensive Starmie can kill is becoming quite limited. Because of this, a lot more offensive Starmie are being seen nowadays, using its high Speed and excellent coverage to be a mean late game cleaner. Offensive Suicune is quite a common set nowadays, although the old bulky Suicune are still around as well. CroCune has taken quite a hit with Blissey running much more Special Defense, and Latias, who can survive quite easily against a +6 Suicune limited to Surf.

    [​IMG] [​IMG]

    Special-based versions of Tyranitar aren't seen as much now, since the physical variants of it are arguably a lot more useful in the current metagame. The Choice Bander's Pursuit is immensely helpful in taking out Latias and other frail sweepers that fear Tyranitar, and is as useful as ever in cracking open an opponent's team. Dragon Dance Tyranitar took quite a hit, with Scizor's Bullet Punch being able to OHKO with Stealth Rock, meaning that getting off a sweep can be quite difficult. However, since Scizor is quite often the only answer teams have to DD Tyranitar, a Babiri Berry (Steel resist) can be used to foil its Bullet Punch, allowing Tyranitar to take it out and opening up the rest of the team to a sweep. Scarf Tyranitar is also quite popular to outspeed Latias, Gengar, etc, and get the surprise first hit in from something typically viewed as being rather slow.

    [​IMG] [​IMG]

    The standard Celebi hasn't changed too much, despite Platinum gifting it with several new toys in the form of Earth Power and Trick. Grass Knot is still its most popular offensive move, being able to get the 2HKO on most Tyranitar looking for a Pursuit kill. Thunder Wave is also immensely useful, as always, in crippling offensive Pokemon. Because it is commonly seen as set up fodder for Scizor, quite a few Celebi have started running HP Fire to get the surprise KO on the top metagame threat. Its role as a cleric is called upon less and less in today's fast paced metagame.

    [​IMG] [​IMG]

    Although Platinum didn't change it directly, the new metagame Heracross resides in has its ups and downs. Overall, the brawling bug took quite a hit from Scizor's Bullet Punch, which can be really limit its sweeping potential. However, Heracross is still a fearsome attacker, and because of its unique dual STAB, is one of the few Pokemon that can successfully take on both Latias and opposing Steel-types. Scarf Heracross now tend to run +speed natures to allow them to outspeed +speed scarfed Heatran.

    [​IMG] [​IMG]

    [​IMG] [​IMG]

    [​IMG] [​IMG]

    The frail, fast, suicide lead trend has started to diminish somewhat, and now the majority of leads tend to be bulkier users of Stealth Rock. Metagross' potential in particular has been caught onto by a lot of battlers. Rotom is really the only reliable switchin into it, and with a combination of Meteor Mash + Bullet Punch, Metagross can deal with any Azelf or Aerodactyl still hanging about. Jirachi gained Iron Head in the transition to DPP, and it has become its most popular move. When equipped with a Choice Scarf, Iron Head's respectable power and frustrating 60% flinch rate really come into play, and allow it to 'hax' its way past many opposing leads. Jirachi is one of the main reasons Aerodactyl and Azelf have become so rare - no one wants to give a pokemon only a 40% chance of achieving something. Scarfed versions can also deal with bulkier leads such as opposing Swampert and Bronzong by simply Tricking its scarf onto them, rendering them pretty much useless for the rest of the battle. While physical sweeper Jirachi is probably the commonest version, one mustn't forget the great supporting niche that Jirachi can fill, with a great number of resistances, good defenses, and Wish to heal both itself and the team. Jirachi, as well as Metagross, have also made lead Tyranitar unpopular. Swampert is a really undervalued lead at the moment, being able to take on Metagross, Jirachi, Heatran, Aerodactyl, Tyranitar, and the rare Mamoswine lead.

    The addition of Latias momentarily sparked off a strange "triple dragon triple steel" trend, which has now died down somewhat. The trend is pretty self explanatory - people were using teams that consisted of three Dragon-types and three Steel-types with surprisingly effective results. This trend is no longer quite as prevalent, but it just goes acts as a reminder of the dominance these two types currently hold over Standard play.


    With many new and exciting suspects planned on being tested in OU play, the standard metagame is guaranteed to be a very vibrant one for the next few months. We can only look forward in anticipation to the new trends that will be set as the DPP metagame evolves.
  2. MetaNite

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    Bravo on this thread. Well written, and correct.

    I have some things to add however. Jirachi as become extremely popular as a lead, but not in the way many used to think. Thanks to gaining Iron Head in Platinum it can now reliably abuse Serene Grace, flinching to death many Pokemon it previously could not kill. It can beat Focus Sash leads with it, such as Aerodactyl and Azelf which is why it is commonly using a Choice Scarf. On top of that, Jirachi gains Trick from a Platinum move tutor, thus furthering the prevelance of Choice Scarf.

    Another thing to note, once only Psychic and Thunderbolt was considered for moves on the Calm Mind set, but now more than ever Jirachi must find a way to beat its counter. This has led to various experiments of move combinations, involving Flash Cannon, Hidden Power Ground, and even Signal Beam. This set has also lost the ability to beat Blissey because they've been using more and more Special Defense EVs to combat threats such as Suicune and Lucario.

    EDIT: I just found Jirachi. Did you edit it there or am I just impaired?
  3. chenman333

    chenman333

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    Mmm that was definitely a spot on analysis.

    I dislike how so many people are running CB Scizor. Indeed, he is quite good, but too often Scizor becomes set up bait because he cannot switch attacks.
  4. Kristoph

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    this thread is extremely attractive

    one nitpick:
    January statistics certainly disagree with this, so I would be hesitant to say that the majority of Skarmory and Forretress run Shed Shell... though I may be missing something as I've only been playing Suspect these days.

    edit: I'm also pretty sure you made no direct mention of Flygon gaining Outrage. Now that's definitely just nitpicking, but I'd still attribute that to Flygon's recent success about as much as Garchomp's removal from standard, I think.

    edit2: ok, you actually did mention that, you just didn't highlight it as one of the probably biggest reasons he improved, but whatever.


    really really good job though.
  5. Objection

    Objection

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    I've actually been seeing a few more Swampert leads as of late.

    One other thing I've found is that when people come face to face with OU pokemon, 9 times out of 10 they know what to do. When a UU pokemon comes into play, quite a few people have no idea what to expect from it.
  6. nyczxjay

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    Great job LR. You're wall of texts are one of the few on Smogon I'm able to read all the way through without getting bored halfway lol. Most of the things that comes to my mind about the current metagame has already been addressed. Though I think maybe there should be some mention about Gyarados, though it hasn't changed much at all since DP except for the new addition of Bounce, which isn't used much from my experience. Also I've noticed that not many people run the bulky spread as much as before, whether it be the DD RestTalker (a set that you were quite fond of IIRC) or just the plain Bulkydos. Many teams now also run both Salamence and Gyarados (offensive spread) despite the double SR weakness because double Intimidate has proven to be very helpful in the current metagame.
  7. Broth3r

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    You should also mention Grass Knot, as a CM Jira baits a lotta eq'ers weak to it (Hippo, TTar, Swampert).
  8. Elevator Music

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    Swampert leads are definitely increasing a lot. It's at the point where I'm so sick of running into Metagross and Swampert leads that I'm using an HP [Grass] Shuca Tran to deal with them both. This was great.


    Tyranitar was more or less left out, though you did kinda talk about him a little bit. There is no real mention of most bulky waters either. Vaporeon is relatively common but gets little to no mention.


    It may be helpful to point out somewhere that the metagame, being as Steel and Dragon dominant as it is, is incredibly susceptible to Mamoswine. I can't tell you the number of times that just removing Scizor or Rotom from the game has let Mamoswine roam freely.
  9. gorm

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    needs mention of:

    bronzong who stops mence and a good deal of latias variations and can check scizor

    celebi who on top of trouncing any bulky waters in scizor's way can also serve as a lure for pretty much all the top offensive threats and can incapacitate a good 3 quarters of them with any set (usually involving twave or hp fire)
  10. 13blue101

    13blue101

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    I think Empoleon should be mentioned somewhere seeing how his useage has increased with all the CB Scizors and Tyranitars trying to stop Latias
  11. foibles

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    this is a very well written article, but i think that gengar is not as rare as you make it out to be.and you should also mention that a lot of its early platinum popularity cam from an actual glitch in the shoddy code for trick.
  12. paramylodon

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    I've noticed a rise in mamoswines, or perhaps I've simply had the misfortune of facing them.
    It has STAB super effective against both steels and dragons, so it can obviously be quite effective against teems heavily centered around such pokemon. Especially if they're slower steels (and dragons other then kingdra). Metagross and magnezone as the steel types fair poorly.

    I've also noted a rise in duel screens and baton pass gliscor -> metagross. Or perhaps I simply faced the same few players over and over again on suspect, so perhaps it doesn't apply to OU...

    Many metagross leads appear susceptible to exploding at the sight of a swampert. Perhaps an effective leadpert would be a swampert eved to be faster, so it can lay rocks before the explosion (or given protect, but then some degree of prediction would be needed).
  13. -Mind-

    -Mind-

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    I saw many YawnKingdra's too.
    I'm using it too, and it works pretty well, especially with SR/Spikes.
  14. cim

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    How does Empoleon stop either of those? If you mean "they're set up fodder" then Empoleon never really had trouble finding a window to set up before and that's definitely not why it's popular. If anything you should mention how Empoleon has been getting worse with Latias existing and stuff :/ (the sub set)
  15. Imran

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    I disagree Chris, many offensive teams these days are running Scizor as their check to all of those set up Sweepers, making Bullet Punch the priority move of Choice for most people. An Empoleon can easily take advantage of CBScizor if they initially choose to set up something such as DD Mence. They bring in Scizor to revenge kill, you set up a Sub on the Bullet Punch / switch. From there it cannot be revenged easily that same Scizor coming back in, Bullet punch does around 15 or 17 % from what I remember. This Bullet Punch over ExtremeSpeed priority shift has given Empoleon a lot more room to shine.

    You are saying "they are set up fodder and they were before." Obviously that point still stands, but there are now more of them around. CB Tar can be used to handle Rotom and Latias, who have both been introduced recently, and Scizor's useage has risen amazingly since it gained Bullet Punch. So if there is more set-up fodder around, then there are going to be more Empoleon! We have seen how Empoleon fares quite well in a world dominated by Choice users, as it can set up should the wrong move be selected, and there are many more choice users around as compared to before, as is shown by the large amount of Pokemon using protect. Empoleon definately has more windows to set up in Platinum, as compared to DP.
  16. Darkmalice

    Darkmalice Like a facepalm, but better
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    Great write up. The only fault I can find is a lack of a Gyarados and Infernape mention. I can do a bit, though I'm sure you can do a better job LR.

    Gyarados at the start of DPPT was commonly seen as the offensive variant, sometimes even forgoeing Leftoves for Life Orb. The Bulky set was less seen and had an EV change to make it more offensive, sacrificing some Defense and HP for Attack and Speed. However, with the shift to bulky offensive pokemon, the offensive set is lesser seen these days, and Gyarados' are using bulkier EV sets. Taunt, unfortunately, is rarely seen these days; Gyarados prefers the Waterfall, Stone Edge and Ice Fang combo for great coverage. Earthquake is also declining in usage. More and more STalk Gyarados are being seen, for it is an excellent way to wall common threats, most notably Scizor and Lucario. It's great bulk, combined with Intimidate, makes setting up Dragon Dance easier, though with a smaller bite than before.

    Infernape remained pretty much the same as in DP - the most famous wall breaker in the game, and its position remained relatively constant. The lead set is becoming more and more popular, even once holding the spot as the #3 lead, thanks to Fake Out removing opposing Sashes and its Fire type working as an excellet counter to the Steel type leads, as well as Close Combat for Tyranitar and Heatran. However, Metagross and Jirachi have now surpassed its popularity. Vacuum Wave is also becoming increasingly popular with Nasty Plot. This move takes place of Close Combat, for countering Blissey is becoming easier and easier thanks to physical attackers becoming stronger and the massive Trick usage. However, Close Combat is still the most popular choice. Unfortunately, Infernape usage has taken a fall, and that's because of Latias' introduction into OU, another solid Infernape counter joining the list of Vaporeon, Tentacruel and Cresselia.
  17. Elevator Music

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    Infernape was mentioned...

    Though Gyarados certainly wasn't.
  18. Legacy Raider

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    I've added most of the suggestions (changes in blue) to the analysis. If there are other important changes that I've neglected to include, please point them out =).
  19. ToF

    ToF
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    Gyarados should definitely be mentioned as a way to deal with the triple dragon triple steel teams. After a DD, not much can really stop it if its an offensive version.
  20. Polis4rule

    Polis4rule

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    I'm actually surprised at the lack of Bronzong, who functions as a pretty good Latias counter, resisting her STAB moves and taking most things with ease from her. But I guess that's the result of having a defensive Pokemon without a reliable recovery move. I too am seeing a lot more Swampert leads, and am currently using a Swampert lead for my OU tier team. It's been doing wonders for me, but I can see HP Grass usage rising on lead Heatrans.
  21. Chou Toshio

    Chou Toshio @Fighting Necktie
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    It might be worth a mention that Taunt + DD on Gyarados is becoming more and more obsolete. Earthquake and Stone Edge (as well as bounce) are too useful to give up slots for, so LO-dos is going to have choose between either being a lead/early poke with taunt to stop slow-set ups (like swamp/bronzong/metagross), or DD as a later sweeper.

    Also Jolly is becoming increasingly more common as non-scarf Heatran and Metagross continue to experiment with their speed stats.
  22. Luxormaniac

    Luxormaniac

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    I think I'm noticing that as more and more Pokemon are added to the metagame (from lower unheard of UU and Ubers) Pokemon just need more offensive slots to deal with the new type combinations, etc. As ChouToshio said, EQ and SE are too useful to give up. This trend appears to be irreversible. These Pokemon aren't just going to go away.
    If only we had a doctor in the house to cure our Moveslot Syndrome.
  23. Legacy Raider

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    Alright, just bumping this to see if there are any more suggestions or comments anyone has, before I ask this to be moved to the Metagame Analysis forum =]
  24. Zeromus EG

    Zeromus EG

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    Lead Metagross, Heatran and Swampert are all coming up a bit in the ranks.

    Because of this, people are experimenting a lot to find leads to beat these.

    I've seen Camerupt, Sharpedo and other random 'mon with HP [Grass] on to beat these 3.

    I myself have started using a Specs Phione :)
  25. locopoke

    locopoke indulges in unsavory behavior
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    Yeah, nice job on the Analysis. Anyway I really do agree with you about CB Scizor. Bullet Punch is just asking for Magnezone to come in and kill off one of your Pokemon, and you have nothing to do about it. Personally I enjoy using SD Scizor more, because it has more options and can sweep easily.

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