Gen 4 DPP OU "Retro Suspect" Test

#1
Hello, RoA.

After a quick few words with Joim, I wanted to throw this project for DPP OU out there to generate interest and let the RoA community build upon the idea. In the Latias thread, different opinions were left. For example, some people thought Latias isn't broken and should be let back in OU, others thought the opposite. Or, some people thought the metagame is perfect and balanced as is, while others like the idea of a change in the metagame to make things interesting again. Or, some just think a simple test is good to gather knowledge. This could be a way to reach a consensus somewhat and reinvigorate DPP OU again.

The "Retro Suspect" Test

Basically, we go through each of DP's OU suspects of the past, working backward, and testing them one by one on a special DPP ladder (separate from the OU Beta ladder to avoid obstructing normal game-play for players). The goal of this project would not be to unban previously OU Pokemon. With the current metagame's threats and playstyles, it would be interesting to see how the old suspects affect them, and vice-versa.

Why DPP OU? For an informal answer, frankly, it's the metagame I have the most interest in. I'd love to see it get some more attention, because it really is a fun and balanced metagame. It had quite an interesting run throughout its life on Smogon and is certainly is not as off-putting as BW and its countless rampaging (and overpowered) threats. For a more legitimate reason, while this would certainly be a popular idea for BW OU, suspect testing there is not done yet. Over two years and there are still suspects being tested. This would be a major conflict in the process. DPP OU is the next best tier. It's completed (obviously), lacks "complex bans" (or an excessive amount of non-Pokemon bans which makes things easier), and has a short, simple pool of five past suspects that were, at one point, usable in OU.

Suspect votes from the past can be viewed in the 4th Gen Suspect Voting Site.


-Salamence
-Latias
-Shaymin-S
-Deoxys-S
-Garchomp


I was thinking each single suspect will be available on the ladder for a period of two weeks. Afterwards, we can discuss the changes and impact of their "return."


What benefits do we get out of this?

  • "Are these Pokemon really broken?" The main reason. With the experiences we've gained in the metagame as a whole (and even in BW), are these suspects still too strong for the tier to handle? Remember, these are just questions. We probably don't need to be convinced of Garchomp's Uber status, but what's the harm in another round?
  • Seeing old faces in the "current" metagame. DPP OU in late 2008 was completely different than, say, DPP OU of mid 2010. And PDP OU of late 2010 right before BW started is still different than the DPP OU of today. While the banned Pokemon were all arguably among the biggest factors in any of the metagame changes, they weren't the only ones. The dominance shifted from stall to offense as time progressed. New sets from the the other, top-tier Pokemon appeared. Mindsets of players changed. For an example of these other changes, take Choice Scarf Tyranitar, a set popularized due to Latias being such a threat to many teams when it was OU. The set stormed the metagame so hard, it's now a well-anchored part of the game, used in a lot of teams even today. This set was unheard of before Latias existed in the tier. How would it stand in a game dominated once again by Garchomp? Changes in DP OU still happen today and the matured tier would be an interesting environment for the suspects to (presumably) reek havoc on.
  • A makeshift glimpse of the past. Players that weren't around at the time can get a feel for how these Pokemon operated in DPP. In reality, there's no easy way to do that. Plus, want to possibly try out some old teams in the RMT archives?
  • Analysis of a new metagame. Apart from reflecting on the suspects themselves, this gives an opportunity to watch the metagame around them. What Pokemon rise in effectiveness with their inclusion? What drops in usage?
  • Provides the shake-up some people may be looking for. Simple. It's a fun way to bring (temporary) changes to DPP OU.


This thread was to generate interest and see if others were up to see if we could go for it, but didn't want to half-ass the post. We'd still have to get support/approval by staff for it to go official. If anyone has any suggestions or changes, don't hesitate to post.
 
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#4
What about Manaphy, if you guys unban Shaymin-S and Latias you should try out Manaphy aswell because it gets two extra counters.
 
#5
What about Manaphy, if you guys unban Shaymin-S and Latias you should try out Manaphy aswell because it gets two extra counters.

The idea is to test each of them alone as opposed to simply unbanning each along the line (to emulate the old metagame). Plus, it's initially only for previously OU Pokemon. Manaphy had its suspect test to vote it to move down from Uber. I'm certainly not opposed to try Manaphy out in its own stage at one point or another though. That would open it to Latios as well.
 

Joim

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#7
Mechanics in PS currently follow all the official Smogon metagames, so DPP OU with 60% Hypnosis as we lack a sub-gen in DP.
 
#10
i really like this idea as i only got involved in competitive after the latias ban.But why shaymin , i dont know if im out of line saying this but are we testing these for entertainment or for actual use in the meta game.If its the latter then shaymin (which was unammiusly banned in gen 5 a much more powerful metagame ) should not be,its to over powered with its serene grace and massive specail attack stat.
 
#13
So whatever happened to this? I'll be a part of anything that attempts to breathe some life DP OU
This sort of went under when the site went down for that long period of time. By the time things were back up and running, XY was already upon us, so all interest pretty much has been centered on that right now. At this point, it would be up to Joim to make the changes to the ladder if he gets a chance, as long as others would still be interested (though I doubt there would be enough to really justify it). I'd be always down though.
 
#14
This sort of went under when the site went down for that long period of time. By the time things were back up and running, XY was already upon us, so all interest pretty much has been centered on that right now. At this point, it would be up to Joim to make the changes to the ladder if he gets a chance, as long as others would still be interested (though I doubt there would be enough to really justify it). I'd be always down though.
awww. I've been looking for a reason to create a new team. Need an incentive, though.
 
#15
awww. I've been looking for a reason to create a new team. Need an incentive, though.
Don't hesitate to make one and play sometime anyway. Regardless of this, the ladder needs more activity in general and would be happy to have anyone come fill it up. Very hard to find matches out of peak hours.

Technically, since BW is a past generation now, it would be valid as well.