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Gen 4 DPP OU Stall Discussion

Discussion in 'Ruins of Alph' started by Jellicent, Jun 25, 2012.

  1. Jellicent

    Jellicent ~the spirit who loves spirits~
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    Ruiner of Alph

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    DPP OU Stall Discussion

    Stall teams were highly effective in DPP. In an incredibly balanced tier, bulky walls had an easy time covering each others weaknesses and checking most threats. The banning of Salamence was a huge boon for stall teams, as it was easily the most versatile stallbreaker in the tier. Its a versatile playstyle with lots of room for creativity.

    A Few Example Stall Members:


    [​IMG]
    With insane physical bulk, Hippowdon was an excellent wall. Consistent recovery from Slack Off, access to Stealth Rock, phazing in the form of Roar, and the ability to go on the offensive if Taunted meant it always had something to do for the team. Perhaps its most useful attribute was its ability, Sandstream, which automatically sets up sand and slowly chips away at anything that isn't Rock-, Ground-, or Steel-type.


    [​IMG]
    Does your opponent have a special attacker? Don't worry, Blissey has it covered. With monstrous HP and SpD, Blissey can tank special hits all day and recover them off with Softboiled or Wish. Wish and Aromatherapy keep your team nice and healthy throughout the battle, while Toxic can slowly wittle down your opponent. If you're running full stall, you're running Blissey.


    [​IMG]
    Blissey's partner in crime, Skarmory, can take on physical hits with aplomb. While the opponent gives up trying to bring this thing down, it can set up Spikes or Stealth Rock on the switch. Roost keeps it in top shape, and Whirlwind allows it to phaze the opponent out, likely racking up some Spikes damage in the process. It even has access to Taunt, allowing it to prevent opposing stall teams from setting up.


    [​IMG]
    After setting up entry hazards, you'll want a spinblocker to make sure they stick around. Meet Rotom-A. With enough offenses and coverage to beat out every common spinner, it's a surefire success. It can also cripple physical sweepers with Will-O-Wisp and slowly bring them down (while keeping itself healthy) with Pain Split. Need more? Rotom-A has Trick, Dual Screens, and RestTalk, all of which it uses effectively. Seriously, go use Rotom-A.


    [​IMG]
    The reigning king of DPP OU, Heatran is a great option for stall teams. It's list of resistances is nothing short of immaculate, and it has the defenses to back it up. It has a wide range of mix-and-match utility moves, including Stealth Rock, Roar, Taunt, and Toxic. One of the few effective users of Torment, Heatran can sub up as the opponent either attacks futily with a NVE move or switches, racking up more entry hazards damage.


    [​IMG]
    A spinner is a necessity if you want to run stall, and Tentacruel is among the best. It's great special bulk and useful resistances give it plenty of opportunities to switch in and force out the opponent. Simply by switching in, it removes Toxic Spikes, which is the bane of stall teams everywhere. Speaking of Toxic Spikes, Tentacruel can set them up as well.


    [​IMG]
    Forretress is the go-to Pokemon for you entry hazards needs. With Spikes, Toxic Spikes, Stealth Rock, and Rapid Spin in its arsenal, there's nothing it can't do. Add in solid bulk, a lone weakness to Fire, and a good base Attack for a wall, and you get an instant staple for stall teams everywhere.


    [​IMG]
    Heatran's best pal Celebi is extremely versatile, especially with its well balanced base 100 stats. Its fantastic movepool includes Recover, Stealth Rock, Leech Seed, Heal Bell, Thunder Wave, Trick, and Perish Song. Although it has a distressing 7 weaknesses, its 6 great resistances give it ample opportunity to switch in and set up.


    [​IMG]
    Vaporeon is among the premier bulky Water-types in DPP. With Wish and Protect, it can easily keep itself and its teammates in top shape. Toxic and Roar are great support options for wearing down the opponent's team. When push comes to shove, Vaporeon can even hit back hard with its base 110 Special Attack.


    [​IMG]
    When people think DPP tank, they think Swampert. Its great balance of offenses and defenses allows it to fill several niches. With a sole weakness to the rare Grass-type attack, it has little to fear from most sweepers. It can support the team with Stealth Rock and Roar while keeping pressure on the opponent with physical and special assaults. Although its only form of recovery is unfortunately Rest, it is capable of running several solid RestTalk sets.


    [​IMG]
    Jirachi here would like to fill in that void on your team. Need a WishPasser? Dual Screens? Stealth Rock? A revenge killer with Trick? ParaFlinch support? Why don't you just tell Jirachi here what you need and it'll get right on it. With great resistances, base 100 in every stat, a huge movepool, and the rage inducing Serene Grace, Jirachi does not disappoint.


    [​IMG]
    Another bulky Water-type with great mixed defenses, Suicune is no easy beast to take down. Although Rest is its only recovery move, it can run a great phazing RestTalk set with Roar. Calm Mind buffs its special bulk to greater heights (as well as increasing its offensive potential), allowing it to effectively Pressure stall or simply sweep a battered team.


    And that's just the tip of the iceberg! There are plenty of other great walls and tanks that fill various niches for stall teams.

    Some Questions for Discussion:

    So, what kinds of stall Pokemon have you had success with?
    Are there any lower tier walls that you find highly effective in DPP OU?
    Do you have any custom stall sets that you feel really shine?
    How does your team deal with wallbreakers such as Infernape?
    Are there any walls that you find disappointing?
    What about walls that you just can't seem to make a stall team without?

    C'mon, let's talk DPP stall ^.^
  2. sandshrewz

    sandshrewz
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    Yesh Jelli thanks for making this awesome thread ^_^ I'd like to add a few things though I hardly touch stall.

    Hippowdon's Sand Stream isn't really just for chipping off health and negating Leftovers. It works as an anti-weather as well to give the rare weather teams a harder time~! It's physical bulk is a nightmare x.x

    Most of the Rotom-A on stall teams are probably RestTalk or a set with Will-O-Wisp. The former gives it much better longevity and Will-O-Wisp says hi to Pursuit users. The other sets probably aren't that common. Who uses duals screens on stall teams though ?_? It's better suited for offensive and balanced teams.

    Perish Song Celebi is often a stall team's best answer to CroCune and Baton Pass teams. Perish Song is pretty useful and can force switches when the timer runs out and just stack even more entry hazard damage. Just like Blissey, it's an awesome cleric and status absorber. It helps to keep many Fighting-types in check that threaten Blissey though it obviously flees against Infernape.

    I've never seen Vaporeon being used on full stall teams :/ It doesn't really offer as much as Blissey does and can do pretty much everything Vaporeon can besides Roar. It has quite a lot of bulk and works quite well as a mixed wall that pretty much stalls with Wish + Protect and Toxic. It's a good weapon against Infernape and mixed wallbreakers.

    Bronzong is kind of an odd ball :/ It doesn't really do much besides setting up Stealth Rock and doesn't really have much utility on a stall team ?_? Never ever use Explosion on a stall team >.> Suicide bombing doesn't really fit stall teams I guess :x

    I was quite unsure of Swampert on stall teams until I saw Taylor's RMT. The lack of recovery is disappointing and Hippowdon is usually better than Swampert on stall teams.

    I've never seen Jirachi on stall teams though :x haha. It seems like a weird choice because it's neither there nor here!

    I'll add in more when I have time again ^_^
    finally likes this.
  3. Hot N Cold

    Hot N Cold PLUTO
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    other pokemon that are often used in stall: Gyarados Resttalker, Nidoqueen with Toxic Spikes+SR, Starmie bulky, Heatran, Abomasnow, Roserade, Hitmontop, Tyranitar (actually for semistall team with Choice Scarf or CB) and Shaymin.
  4. JackieChun

    JackieChun

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    Seconding a lot of Hot N Cold's list. The face of DPP stall has changed and anyone that played in the last Smogon Tour as well as the ladder(PO or Smogon, however sporadic it may be) knows this. The KG Stall clones are nowhere near as rampant. I'll list a few examples:

    Gliscor almost NEEDS to be on that list as it's run on at least half of all stall teams as of recent. With lead Starmie usage dropping significantly, it's a good lead and doubles as a stallbreaker for the mirror match. It also obviously provides crucial physical bulk, Fighting resistance and electric immunity from the likes of Raikou and Zapdos(watch out for HP Ice)

    Tyranitar also needs to be on that list. Few stall teams can get away with not running a revenge killer and Scarf Tyranitar is among the best of them, outspeeding +Speed base 115's(read: Starmie) and below. Sets up sand for Gliscor at the same time.

    If ScarfTar isn't the revenge killer, Rotom-A most likely is. More specifically Rotom-W. Patches up the team if things get out of hand and you let a sweeper set up, but with arguably better coverage than Tyranitar. Can also Trick to cripple something(e.g. Blissey in the mirror match). Otherwise, Rotom-H is used if it's any other set(Reflect can be used on ResTalk sets).

    Roserade is great vs. the mirror match since it absorbs Toxic Spikes for free, taking stress off of other teammates(they don't have to recover as much) and can even run dual spikes a la Forretress. It also isn't randomly trapped by Magnezone unlike Skarm/Forry, who have to run Shed Shell. It's even great as a lead (KG's Northern Lights team is an example), which is ironic since the lead set is usually what offensive teams run.

    Stall's answer to Infernape(besides Vaporeon): Gyarados. ResTalk flat out walls every set except for Nasty Plot Infernape. And, if you run 64 Special Defense EV's with a Careful nature, you counter that set too.

    Speaking of Vaporeon, it also works quite well, especially if your stall team struggles against Infernape AND you want another Wish passer rolled into one. Although you have to be a bit more careful and scout the Ape set(Vappy can't really switch into a Close Combat IIRC).

    Jirachi used to be used as a revenge killer for stall, but nowadays I see the Calm Mind + Wish set being run, though most of those teams are considered semi-stall by many.

    I'm sure I'll think of more, but if you were planning to make the list concise, it looks good. It's about time this type of thread came along and I hope some good discussion comes out of it so I can come up with other tactics to beat stall ;)
  5. Jellicent

    Jellicent ~the spirit who loves spirits~
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    Yeah, that list was by no means exhaustive. There were quite a few others I was going to add in originally (T-Tar, Gliscor, Gyara, Rose, Tomb, Aboma, Shaymin, Walrein, Starmie, Milotic, and a few more), but that was starting to get pretty long, and I wanted to keep it shorter to leave some more room for discussion. If you guys would rather me add them in, I can do that in a bit, though ^.^

    Also, I had fun using Nidoqueen a while back; I can't believe I completely forgot her X_X

    Hitmontop I've never tried out on an OU stall team before (For pure a Fighting-type I always went straight to Hariyama for the greater bulk and Whirlwind, and usually had Tenta, Starmie, or Forry for spinning). I'll have to give it a shot :P
  6. JackieChun

    JackieChun

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    If nothing else, Hitmontop does give you a guaranteed spin if you run Foresight. I know Tomahawk ran it in his last stall RMT a while back and I think he had good success with it. On the topic of Hariyama, I have honestly never tried it, but I've definitely thought of using it many times over(I assume ResTalk with Force Palm + Whirlwind). At some point, I will give it a shot.

    Dusknoir might have to come off the list actually, but I'd wait to see where this thread goes since it could still be there purely for reference purposes. It is definitely useable, but nearly everything it can do, Rotom-A can do better. Of course, if it's a WiFi situation where Rotom-A isn't allowed(unless you have the AR code), I could see it...but even then, if it was me, I'd be looking at using Spiritomb over Dusknoir. 'Noir's best set is SubPunch IMO, which doesn't really fit on a full stall team; maybe semi-stall.
  7. Jellicent

    Jellicent ~the spirit who loves spirits~
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    Spiritomb vs Dusknoir is a bit of a tossup for me. While Spiritomb lacks any weaknesses, I still tend to prefer Dusknoir. It has better offenses, greater bulk, and lower HP, making WOWSplit all the more effective. While Rotom-A is usually my go-to spinblocker, Dusk can be a boon to teams that struggle against Blissey (which Rotom-A, Tran, Celebi, Vappy, Suicune, Rose, etc. can't touch, especially if it runs Aromatherapy). Also, I'm fine with this discussion including full stall and semi-stall, as both are still stall, and it can be hard to draw the line at times X_X

    What other Ghost-types have you guys tried out? Although mostly offensive, I've used Gengar to both spinblock and revenge kill, and its SubSplit set has helped ruin opposing Blissey for me, but the lack of bulk is quite a turnoff. I liked Froslass, cuz it could spinblock and set up Spikes, but due to its overall frailty, I found myself still usually running Rotom-A alongside it :/
  8. sandshrewz

    sandshrewz
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    Gengar and Frosslass are more suited for offensive teams I think >.> The former packs so much power with SubSplit but using it just to deal with Blissey in a somewhat unreliable way isn't that useful? Frosslass is awesome as a Focus Sash lead. It can just set up Spikes and often Destiny Bond something to bring down with it. Both of them can't really spinblock very well with Forretress etc having their ways to deal with Ghost-types by using Gyro Ball and Payback etc. :/

    Having two Ghost-types is almost a surefire way to keep your entry hazards safe and prevent them from getting spun but with Pursuit users, especially Tyrannitar, it can be quite hard. Furthermore two Ghost-types often provide the same kind of support for the stall team and really limits your options? ?_? On the note of Pursuit trapping, Will-O-Wisping whatever that switches in is a good thing to burn Tyranitar on the switch in. Hippowdon pretty much walls every variant of Tyranitar! :)

    The common forms of stall/wallbreaking is often through the use of mixed attackers, most notably Infernape and TyraniBoah to a lesser extent. Actually Tentacruel handles both of them quite decently iirc unless Boah carries Earthquake which is pretty rare since it's best suited to deal with SkarmBliss. Gyrados is quite an underrated stall Pokemon!! Intimidate really helps with its decent physical bulk and giving it quite a lot of investment in Special Defense works pretty well too! RestTalk is probably the only set it should ever use thanks to its Stealth Rock weakness but TauntDD might work against opposing stall team I guess. It can just set up on Skarmory that tries to Whirlwind~~ RestTalk Gyarados is so durable x.x It can be asleep most of the time but that doesn't really matter when you can use priority 0 Roar via Sleep Talk :)

    Some stalls teams have a Choice item user to deal with all those Trick aimed at Blissey etc and also to serve as a failsafe and back up check. KG stall is probably the best example with a Choice Scarf Tyranitar which was really common in DPP OU. It also helps in Rapid Spinning by Pursuiting Ghost-types left right center and checks Swords Dance Lucario etc.

    Roserade is pretty frail but it has quite good special bulk and access to Rest + Natural Cure which is a pretty good combination~! Rotom-A is almost always used over Spiritomb but the latter is not Pursuit weak and spinblock without having to worry about Pursuit users! However it doesn't even have Levitate to avoid the annoying Spikes :/ HOWEVER, it can trap opposing Ghost-types with Pursuit :P Pressure stall works once in a while and you can just switch into something that has low PP like Gengar's Focus Blast and quickly deplete it. Spiritomb can use Curse as a last resort to the last Pokemon like CroCune though Celebi's Perish Song is more reliable anyway. Curse is somewhat gimmicky and I've never really seen it work but its DPP OU analysis was approved late last year...

    Hail stall is quite viable but even harder to use than conventional (sandstorm) stall :/ Abomasnow with SubSeed is pretty cool and most people don't have anything that can take on StallRein. Nidoqueen is pretty fun to use actually xD I've tried her occasionally because I don't like to use common things :P Her typing is not bad and so is her bulk. Zapdos is a pretty good mixed wall as well with Roost and good bulk + typing. SubRoost can be quite annoying and deters opposing Skarmory from setting up!

    DPP is quite kind to stall ... There's quite a lot of options to choose from for DPP stall and it's pretty diverse. It doesn't have to rely on weather like in BW and there aren't too many overwhelming threats that limits how stall teams can be built.

    There are quite a couple of major threats to stall. The most obvious is CroCune and maybe CurseLax when they're the last Pokemon and can't be phazed. Gliscor is somewhat iffy though. Gliscor can't break through a good stall team as long as the player switches around and messes up with it so it doesn't get Taunted and Toxic'ed etc at the same time. Baton Pass is quite annoying or terrifying once it gets like Ingrain in as well.

    Jelli you might want to start adding more Pokemon to the OP and probably mention different kinds of stall. Also threats to stall and other niche options could be nice! Just tell me if you need help ^_^

    Anyway, what do you think are qualities of good stallbreakers and what are viable yet underrated stall Pokemon? :)
  9. kd24

    kd24 lemme just whip my dick out and slam it on the table
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    i think dusknoir is pretty shitty to have added. sr/spikes hurt it, slow, not very strong, doesnt really counter much, etc. i think spiritomb is much better on stall if you don't want to use rotom-w, mostly because it takes down gengar and starmie, which are your biggest threats.

    even tho its been mentioned, i think gyarados is almost essential for any stall team.

    rest / stalk / waterfall / roar gyarados
    - great infernape/lucario/scizor counter
    - intimidate is always great on stall
    - good sleep abosrber
    - great typing

    gyarados, blissey, roserade, and hippowdon are my 4 favorite

    clefables really good if you don't like blissey and can do some neat tricks with encore. magic guard makes it great vs other stall which is always useful for stall.

    i like sdef grass-types on stall. locopoke was using defensive spikes roserade long before anyone else that i can remember and i used that set a lot in dpp (even during mence era, it was great). i also liked sdef shaymin with leech seed/protect/seed flare/filler. if i had a nasty gengar weak, you could use psychic. otherwise just run hp fire or ice.

    gyarados or starmie are the best options (sd nape says hi vaporeon/cune). or you could be gay and use sand veil gliscor as your counter (no one runs hp ice anymore). yes i have lost to many stall teams because of fire blast missing on this (BAN ME PLEASE).

    bronzong is pretty terrible. no good recovery, and doesn't really threaten much. i think its only usable on offensive teams who need a check to random offensive threats. forrys really good but it doesnt wall anything. its mainly how you beat opposing stall teams.

    you have to have hippowdon imo. ss damage, weather changing, sr, phazing, and a last resort to dd tyranitar, sd lucario, etc. if you're not using it, you're proly gonna get swept by random offensive teams easier.

    if you really hate hippo tho, definitely run scarftar plus it has pursuit. blisseys pretty essential too, otherwise have fun with lo starmie and shit like raikou.
  10. shrapn3l

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    yeah i was going to say, bronzong is shit on stall. pretty sure double screens is only useful on offensive teams really... also dusknoir is about as bad as dusclops is in adv but there will always be people that think having the "bulkiest spinblocker" is important so it'll always get some use i guess. it's really just bad though. not having levitate or any type of offense really sucks.

    roserade and gliscor should go on the list over those two imo. don't want to give people the impression that bronzong and dusknoir are actually good fits for stall teams > _>

    heatran and forretress are my fav 2 pokes on stall teams ^ _ ^
  11. DestinyUnknown

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    You may want to add Cradily too. While it has a kinda lackluster typing, its a great alternative SpDef wall for Sandstorm Stall, and it can be really good on battles between stall teams as it can act as a sweeper thanks to Curse and Suction Cups disabling phazing moves.
  12. LighTz911

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    So, what kinds of stall Pokemon have you had success with?

    Forretress, Rotom-a, Swampert, Blissey, Gyarados, Zapdos, Roserade, Celebi, Hippowdon, Starmie, Jirachi, and Dragonite if you consider it a stall Pokemon. Pretty much most of the standard mons that you see in stall teams.

    Are there any lower tier walls that you find highly effective in DPP OU?

    Hitmontop's an alright Rapid Spinner, and Nidoqueen seemed to be good way back, but I haven't used it in the current metagame so I can't say much about it. Spiritomb is also cool because it can take out Gengar and Starmie through Pursuit.

    Do you have any custom stall sets that you feel really shine?

    Just some EV spreads that aren't that much different from normal ones.

    How does your team deal with wallbreakers such as Infernape?

    Gyarados and Starmie usually handle it fine. Specially defensive Hippowdon can tank a Grass Knot and take Infernape down with Earthquake.

    Are there any walls that you find disappointing?

    Dusknoir, definitely. Spiritomb and Rotom-a outclasses it.

    What about walls that you just can't seem to make a stall team without?

    Rotom-a! I always use it.
  13. sandshrewz

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    I've tried Clefable on a stallish team but I have mixed feelings about it. It's good against Gliscor if carrying Ice Beam and reduces the need of having to switch around to play around Gliscor. However, its bulk is terrible :/ it can't take many hits. Encore is pretty cool against Toxic users and some set-up Pokemon. It's mostly outclassed and should only be used to fulfill its niche.

    Choice Scarf Tyranitar is pretty good on stall teams (in fact every team lol). Most Trick users that target Blissey will often Trick at the first opportunity as Choiced Blissey is as good as a dead stall team. Most Trick users are also weak to Choice Scarf Tyranitar, especially the common Rotom-A. Plus Choice Scarf Tyranitar checks a couple of Pokemon stall Pokemon can't. So my question is how do stall teams deal with Trick users without a Choiced Pokemon?

    Also, what viable FWG cores are there for stall teams? I've never seen many. But are they any less effective? Starmie etc seem to be able to dismantle them with some prior damage...
  14. mtr

    mtr

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    Spiritomb is super underrated. I remember IPL used Curse Spiritomb as a last-poke-killer on his famous stall team.

    In general, Curse on Ghosts is underrated. In Dreamworld Ubers, Chandelure also serves a similar purpose with its Curse!
  15. JackieChun

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    Some stall players have switched to using Scarf Rotom-W as their revenge killer/spinblocker for the very purpose of keeping ScarfTar from switching in, since ScarfTar beats every other Rotom-A set. Naturally, it doubles as the new way of dealing with Trick(the "old" way being ScarfTar).

    As far as a good FWG core for stall, there's the tried and true Celebi/Heatran/Bulky Water(Swampert), although I'm sure there are others and I don't know how effective CelePertTran still is. On my first attempt at building stall, I used Heatran/Slowbro/Venusaur and that worked alright. ResTalk Gyarados is good as the Water portion for obvious reasons stated above. ResTalk Heatran is also a monster: think the Standard Sp.Def Heatran, but with constant recovery....yeah :/ . The only other combination I can think of is Heatran/Starmie/Roserade.

    I'd like someone to elaborate on the use of two spinners on a stall team(I think Earthworm used this for a while, but not entirely sure). Just curious to see how effective it was overall and what type of Pokémon benefitted from double spinners and vice versa?
  16. george182

    george182

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    I think Quagsire and Dragonite could be added to the list Quagsire provides an alternative to Blissey due to it's ability water absorb and it brings lots of resistances to your team. Dragonite is great with the DD heal bell set, it can counter offensive threats that stall has trouble with e.g. Sub-Split Rotom, Shaymin, Breloom and Infernape etc. while posing it's own huge threat to opposing stall teams.

    @ JackieChun the use of two spinners is normally not a conscious choice, it's just the combination of Forretress and another spinner. Forretress isn't a great spinner as it's main role is usually to set up loads of entry hazards, so you can add another spinner to make up for this. Two spinners does have a use though as it lures in Rotom more often and it can help you weaken Rotom, thus helping you rapid spin. It's also great against teams without a ghost, as you will get more opportunities to rapid spin. But the best way to deal with hazards will always be to prevent them from being set up in the first place.
  17. JackieChun

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    What happened to this discussion? :(

    @ Jellicent: I haven't gotten a chance to try Hariyama out at all(I've been pretty swamped lately). I was wondering if there were any specifics needed for Hariyama to be on a stall team(EV spreads, partners that would form a solid defensive core with Hariyama, threats to look out for, etc). I only ask since the Smogon Dex has no OU analysis for a defensive Hariyama set; only the anti-lead.

    I remembered that vashta had written a teambuilding guide for stall back in late '09 with the help of Bloo, Jibaku, Eo and august. I realized I had actually saved it in case I needed to reference it later on. The guide is gone from the forums, but I c/p'd it to pastebin. Even though the metagame analysis is slightly outdated, I think it would be a good reference point in case anyone is looking into trying out stall as a playstyle. Here ya go:

    http://pastebin.com/3rdRwiqT
  18. george182

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    You can use the UU Hariyama set (12 HP / 252 Def / 244 SpD Impish or Careful) and you get a nice restalk phazer with whirlwind and Heatran counter due to thick fat. But fighting types are not the best on stall teams anyway, they usually only counter Tyranitar. You also have to consider that using Hariyama misses out on Dynamic Punch that Machamp provides, where confusion can force switches. You also miss out on Intimidate and Rapid spin, which Hitmontop can provide. It's kinda hard to justify using Hariyama in OU.

    Btw I do think that Hitmontop should be added to the list as Hitmontop + Gyarados is really the only option for duel intimidate in OU. Foresight + Rapid spin is also useful.
  19. Captains

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    @ kd24, Whilst Gyarados is a remarkable pokemon to use in a stall team, I found when using the set that he becomes overwhelmed late game if the opponent has a counter for it, (e.g. I've seen Jolteon/Zapdos hanging on most OU teams recently) therefore he isn't in my opinion sustainable in a stall team, because there is little or no chance to use Gyarados effectively. However in some games Gyarados has come out on top, and has been effective. But I find that Gyarados is a "old trick" that either works in "RestTalk" or is just completely put down.

    On regards to Dusknoir, I find that it works effectively as a stall wall/tank, and is a viable counter to the oh-so-common-Blissey, and can cripple most / all physical based pokemon, with the common set: Will-o-Wisp/Shadow Sneak/Pain Split/(physical filler; earthquake/ice punch). But then Dusknoir's use can be subjective to style of play. Futhermore within a stall team, where hazards become a necessity, being typed Ghost, Dusknoir can obviously act as a spin blocker.
  20. george182

    george182

    Joined:
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    I don't see beating Blissey a reason to use Dusknoir. Rotom-W beats blissey if it's a restalker as it will win the PP war. But if the oponent has a Blissey just set up entry hazards on it...
  21. Hangover

    Hangover

    Joined:
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    Dusknoir isn't good for Stall, first of all he is affected by all type of hazards and doesn't have a realiable recovery. He might look like a very sturdy wall but his base HP is very low making him even more terrible. Also he is a very slow making him even worst.

    Spiritomb is much more better, he is an excelent SubPainSplit Gengar Counter (I think that he is the only realiable counter for that) and also he can trap Rotom-A, making him have his own niche as a spin blocker.

    I think that Gyarados must receive a mention in the list, because he is one of DPP Staples of Stall. Covering threats such as Scizor, Infernape, Lucario, Gliscor, Heracros, Flygon (Without T-Punch though), and many more.

    Tyranitar also must be on the list, as being one of the premier Pursuit user of Stall. Also his Curse set can be very anoying if played correctly. He gives permanent Sand which is very beneficial for adding residual damage.

    Things like Abomasnow, Walrein, Bronzong, Nidoqueen also could have a mention.
  22. DestinyUnknown

    DestinyUnknown in other words...
    is a Contributor to Smogonis a Team Rater Alumnus

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    for god's sake gyarados is almost a necesity on DP stall teams because it counters a shitload of threats stall struggles against like Lucario, Gliscor or Infernape. I would say it's just a bit below on importance for stall teams than things like Skarmory or Rotom really

    Bronzong/Dusknoir are REALLY bad on stall (and in general too)
  23. tobi10

    tobi10

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2009
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    So, what kinds of stall Pokemon have you had success with?

    I had success on the ladder with most stall staples, like Blissey, Skarmory, and Rotom-A. Sometimes I used less used Pokémon on tournaments (Hitmontop, Venusaur, Milotic, Slowbro, etc) but they were never my favorite, and I would choose the staples instead 7 out of 10 times.

    Are there any lower tier walls that you find highly effective in DPP OU?

    I think that Hitmontop can be very useful in DPP OU because of typing, ability, and access to Rapid Spin + Foresight. With Intimidate he can effectively check CB Scizor and other physical threats in the tier.

    Nidoqueen is good because of her Electric immunity and ability to lay down and absorb Toxic Spikes, as well as Stealth Rock. She also has a very useful Fighting resistance, access to Roar, Fire Blast and Ice Beam.

    Do you have any custom stall sets that you feel really shine?

    They are not very common, but a well made Curse Tyranitar team is a TOP threat to most other teams. I had some decent success with it on the ladder (at least when Latias was still legal.)

    How does your team deal with wallbreakers such as Infernape?

    It is very important to have a way around common wallbreakers when you are building your stall team. I usually have one counter for them (Vaporeon, Suicune, Tentacruel, Gyarados) and at least a check, for example a Choice Scarf Pokémon. If those are gone I have to rely on SS and residual damage (and predict like a boss) until the threat dies.

    Are there any walls that you find disappointing?

    The most disappointing wall of DPP OU IN MY OPINION is Cresselia. She seemed to have potential with her great defensive stats and her pretty good ability. However, her typing and movepool did not help her very much to become a staple on stall teams. Dusknoir has pretty huge defensive stats, but he is hindered by being affected by all forms of passive damage and its low HP.

    What about walls that you just can't seem to make a stall team without?

    The most obvious choice here is Rotom-A, because he is the spin-blocker in DPP OU. Rotom-A works on either semi stall and full stall teams, so he is the Pokémon I would not be able to make a decent STALL team without.


    Very cool thread!

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