Gen 4 DPP Ubers viability ranking thread (Now discussing Farceus viability)

shrang

AAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!
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#51
It's not. I've already explained why I'm not dropping Kyogre. If you disagree, please address the points I have given.

EDIT: Kind of realised this is kind of making me sound really douchebaggy, but tl;dr from the last post I made in response to Hack on why Kyogre should remain S:
- Drizzle alone is metagame-defining enough to propel Kyogre to extremely high if not top tier
- Add on the fact that Kyogre's versatility and splashability and this cements it in S in my eyes
- In addition, Kyogre can take out or cripple different counters if it so desired - nothing beats all Kyogre sets, like most of the other S mons.
 
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#52
Kyogre is the best pokemon in this gen and its not even funny. There is literally no reason not to use Kyogre unless it conflicts with a different weather-based team. It does too many things well and supports via ability whether you want it to or not. Kyogre boosts Palkia just by being Kyogre.
 

Tomahawk

If you don't like stroopwafels you got to flikker op
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#53
Kyogre is the best pokemon in this gen and its not even funny. There is literally no reason not to use Kyogre unless it conflicts with a different weather-based team. It does too many things well and supports via ability whether you want it to or not. Kyogre boosts Palkia just by being Kyogre.
Kyogre is great, but that is simply not true. No reason not to use Kyogre? It's not Primal Groudon! I can think of plenty of reasons not to use Kyogre. Six slots isn't that many that you can always afford to use Kyogre, a lot of teams have not a single member where the team would improve by replacing it with Kyogre.
 
#54
Kyogre is great, but that is simply not true. No reason not to use Kyogre? It's not Primal Groudon! I can think of plenty of reasons not to use Kyogre. Six slots isn't that many that you can always afford to use Kyogre, a lot of teams have not a single member where the team would improve by replacing it with Kyogre.
For more defensive teams that may be true, but I've rarely seen situations where an offensive minded uber team couldn't find a slot to abuse it's brokenness.
 
#55
RaikouLover im no dpp expert but all u gotta do is look at the sample teams thread to see that u are wrong lol. 6 out of the 8 teams in that don't have ogre. Not saying ogre isn't common cause it is but its clear that making teams that do well without it is ez.
 
#56
This is a team about viability though...can you honestly say that Kyogre as a Pokémon fits on more teams than the only available spin-blocker in the tier that can opt for either an offensive or defensive set? Kyogre can fit on a variety of teams very easily thanks to its versatility both offensively and defensively, as well as for the team support it provides in the form of Drizzle, but I think Giratina-O has the edge in terms of viability since it really is the one and only central spin blocker in the tier; if you want to keep hazards up from being Rapid Spinned, Giratina-O ends up being your go-to 99% of the time.
 
#57
This is a team about viability though...can you honestly say that Kyogre as a Pokémon fits on more teams than the only available spin-blocker in the tier that can opt for either an offensive or defensive set? Kyogre can fit on a variety of teams very easily thanks to its versatility both offensively and defensively, as well as for the team support it provides in the form of Drizzle, but I think Giratina-O has the edge in terms of viability since it really is the one and only central spin blocker in the tier; if you want to keep hazards up from being Rapid Spinned, Giratina-O ends up being your go-to 99% of the time.
I've only been playing DPP for a short while, but after the easily pressured Foretress (who Absdaddy says is declining in popularity), the next most viable spinner is Tentacruel. Granted, having a versatile spinblocker is nice, but spinblocking itself doesn't, at least in my opinion, push Gira-O over arguably the most centralizing Pokemon in DPP.

Edit: point taken Iris
 
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#59
g-o is way more than just a spinblocker. it performs well as an overall pokemon game in and game out, whether it's keeping up spikes or sneak revenging mewtwo or wallbreaking or cm sweeping or whatever. it's versatile to the point where it can fit on quite literally any team. also regular giratina is perfectly fine.
 
#60
gira a is bad except with scarf. sub cm is ok but youre kinda hopin the other dude misplays vs it cause it is so rare. and then its one of the few cm mons thats boned by turn 1 toxic spikes limiting effectiveness against the teams it is built to counter. its doin nothin to offense besides hopin for chip damage on a dragon before dyin (maybe gettin a kill off a banded superpower scizor). with stall youre checking the sub gira first cause thats the only one you care about. anything else is free spikes / free wish / momentum gain.

even stall wants gira o to avoid spikes cause spinnin be near impossible past ~turn 3.

sub protect gira a is pretty cool though, thats a lil somethin somethin gira o cannot do.

only problem i have with gira o is how the people use it, but thats not the pokemon's fault.

o and ogasiain dude, pick a side man. you go in my opinion then follow it with arguably. did you doubt yourself 3 words later? arguably should arguably be avoided when youre trying to prove a point. you could also skip in my opinion but this ain't no rhetoric / critical theory / 1900th century latin american lit class. dam, i wish it was.
 

shrang

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#63
Okay, seeing as this metagame is quite stable atm, Sweep's given permission for me to bump this thread to open up viability ranking for the Farceus metagame. It will go into post 2 (that I've currently reserved and have nothing in atm).

If you ask for EKiller to be put into S rank I will fuck you
 
#65
arc steel to a+/s

simple, this thing is imo the best cm arc and a huge threat in general and here's why:

+great defensive typing, the most important one in ubers when it comes to defense because dragons (just dont forget that its weak to fire and ground, two popular choices in ubers when it comes to coverage moves)

+like any other arc its bulky as hell

+its typing gives it a tspikes immunity and that's pretty big for a cm sweeper

+decent speedtier, faster than base 100s etc. sadly its not fast enough for chomp, one of steelceus' worst enemies

+almost every filler move on a cm set is good: variant i like the most is cm/judgment/thunder/recover but moves like roar or sub are also worth trying (replace thunder)

+its stab has no immunities

+its made of steel

-slower than some big mons it would love to outspeed, most notable ones being chomp and latis

-non thunder sets dont like kyogre

-fk heatran and ho-oh


never really used sd steelceus but it looks pretty mediocre
 
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WreckDra

He came home from the war with a party in his head...
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#66
S rank:
Kyogre
Palkia
Arceus-Steel
Darkrai

Kyogre actually gets better in farceus which is kinda hilarious seeing how it was already in god tier without. It is now not as punishable thanks to Palkia being the only true Kyogre check that can actually threaten Steelceus in rain. Latios can also threaten Steelceus with rain boosted Surf, but is very shaky against Choice Scarf Kyogre considering that if it takes any kind of damage, Kyogre can 2HKO it with 88% Water Spout or Ice Beam.

Palkia's status of "what switches into me" doesn't because of Steelceus which is pretty big considering how much of a hit Dialga's offensive sets take from it. Rain boosted Hydro Pumps still hose Steelceus just like they did to Jirachi in non-farceus. Steelceus is just a fatter Jirachi to Palkia and the extra bulk Steelceus has doesn't save it from Palkia's Hydro Pump.

Arceus-Steel was explained by abs very well.

Darkrai is still really powerful; Dark Void is still one of the best moves in the game; STAB Dark Pulse + Focus Blast is still threatening as hell; its Speed is still amazing. Arceus formed being as bulky as they are hurt it somewhat, but not enough to drop it out of S. It still puts puts a Pokemon out of commission and proceeds to do a lot meaningful damage afterwards unless there is a Fightceus present.

Giratina-O falls off a bit due to its damage output being reduced by Steelceus and the option of another good spinblocker (Ghostceus) being available. It is still good enough for A+ imo and might even be good enough to stay S. I think A+ is a good starting point for it though.

Dialga's offensive sets now have another shutdown when rain is up. If you thought Jirachi gave offensive Dialga a hard time, Steelceus curb stomps them. Dialga's Stealth Rock support set will be more than enough to keep it in A+ though. SR / Draco or Pulse / Fire Blast or Thunder / Roar is still a top tier set and is the best Stealth Rock user in the game, but its offensive sets being less effective make its versatility much less threatening.
 
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zf

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#67
Garchomp should be bumped up to A+ in Farceus. 102 is a useful speed tier for getting the jump on Palkia and Arceus. Chomper has enough versatility to fit most team's needs, whether it needs to pressure / revenge Arceus with SD + SR sets or clean lategame with SubSalac and Scarf sets and has very few counters, limited to Groudon, Skarmory, and Bronzong.

Grassceus should be in A-. It's a counter to Palkia, Groudon, and the majority of "weaker" attackers (support Dialga, Tina-O, etc) and is a hard check to Kyogre. In addition, it spreads burns to relevant targets, namely steels and dragons.

Fightceus should also be in A. No matter what set it's running, it's an offensive check to Darkrai, Rayquaza, EKiller, and Lucario. Anikceus has no problem spreading status and chip damage and CM checks Steelceus and is a potent sweeper. In addition, Ghostceus and psychic STAB are rarer in DPP than BW2, so Fightceus has less prevalent weaknesses in Farceus.

Skarmory should get a raise to A- simply based on the large number of new threats that it checks. It beats Grassceus, non-Thunder Steelceus, and every SD Arc forme, in addition to "classic" DPP mons, namely Garchomp.

TTar might be worthy of A rank since ScarfTar is now worth using since it can revenge kill weakened Ghostceus, Steelceus, and EKiller, plus Tina-O and Lati@s.

Scizor should drop since it's role has mainly been usurped by Steelceus and other Arc formes (it was never great in the first place but it's just shitty in Farceus).