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DragMag Hyper Offense

Discussion in 'BW OU Teams' started by rayquazamaster776, Feb 10, 2013.

  1. rayquazamaster776

    rayquazamaster776

    Joined:
    Jun 17, 2008
    Messages:
    217
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]


    [​IMG]
    Espeon @ Light Clay
    Trait: Magic Bounce
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature
    - Light Screen
    - Reflect
    - Psychic
    - Baton Pass
    Espeon is the first of the two supporting Pokemon on my team, providing hazard reflection and screen support to my two sweepers. This is a standard set, like the rest of my team, but I still have several important choices to make, such as the last move here. Baton Pass is standard, but has never really been very useful. Since Magnezone handles Scizor well enough, I'm considering HP Fighting to hit Tyranitar, the only other Pursuiter I'm likely to encounter.

    [​IMG]
    Magnezone @ Leftovers
    Trait: Magnet Pull
    EVs: 36 HP / 252 SAtk / 220 Spd
    Timid Nature
    - Thunderbolt
    - Substitute
    - Hidden Power [Fire]
    - Flash Cannon

    The "Mag" in DragMag, Magnezone crushes most Steel-types, allowing me to freely spam Dragon-type moves. Magnezone's function in the team extends past offense, though, since it also possesses decent bulk, as well as perfect type synergy with Salamence, Dragonite, and Latios. Therefore, it's a fairly safe switchin if one of my dragons is threatened. Magnezone's main problem is that it's easy for my opponent to predict and switch out their Steel-type as I switch in, forcing me to either use Magnezone only as a revenge trapper, or outpredict them, something I've always had trouble with.

    [​IMG]
    Latios (M) @ Choice Specs
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature
    - Draco Meteor
    - Dragon Pulse
    - Surf
    - Trick

    Latios, while not able to plow through entire teams the way Salamence and Dragonite can, still combines speed, bulk, and incredible power, making him an excellent lead. Dragon Pulse is my STAB of choice, 2KOing virtually everything that isn't Steel type. Surf rounds out my coverage, while Trick gives me another out against annoying Steel types, as well as other walls like Blissey; if I can predict the pink blob, she'll be useless for the rest of the match. Despite Draco Meteor's extreme power, I'm generally hesitant to use it, not wanting to be forced to switch out afterwards.

    [​IMG]
    Garchomp @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Rough Skin
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
    Jolly Nature
    - Outrage
    - Earthquake
    - Stone Edge
    - Dragon Claw
    Due to my lack of bulky Pokemon and defensive synergy, a revenge killer is crucial for my team, a role Garchomp fills perfectly with it's good Speed and already-high Attack. Once Steels have been removed, he can also serve as a cleaner, mopping up most or all of my opponent's team with a deadly Outrage. Having a second STAB in Dragon Claw is very useful as well, allowing me to attempt to revenge kill Lati@s and the like earlygame without being locked in if Ferrothorn or similar switches in.

    [​IMG]
    Dragonite @ Lum Berry
    Trait: Multiscale
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
    Adamant Nature
    - Dragon Dance
    - Dragon Claw
    - ExtremeSpeed
    - Fire Punch

    No one can deny that Dragonite is one of the top threats of the the 5th gen metagame; with Dragon Dance, base 134 Attack, good bulk, and Multiscale to ensure setup, it can punch a hole through virtually any team. Given the theme of my team, Dragonite is an obvious inclusion. With two Outrage spammers already, I like having Dragon Claw for a more consistent early-game, especially since Dragonite has a very easy time getting up a Dragon Dance. Since Ferrothorn and Forretress are the most threatening Steels to this set, Fire Punch is used over Earthquake to hit them much harder. Extremespeed allows me to hit Scarfers who outspeed me even at +1, and allows Dragonite to serve as a second revenger if needed.

    [​IMG]
    Salamence @ Lum Berry
    Trait: Moxie
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Naive Nature
    - Dragon Dance
    - Earthquake
    - Outrage
    - Fire Blast

    Whereas Dragonite represents a somewhat more restrained setup, Salamence represents raw power. It has a somewhat difficult time setting up without Screen support from Espeon, but once it does, it's usually game, with Moxie allowing to crush even Steel-types after a Moxie boost or two. As useful as it is on Dragonite, Lum Berry is critical to this set, allowing me to spam Outrage for twice as long, virtually insuring a sweep. It also has some nice utility use, allowing me to set up on bulky Politoed, Jellicent, etc. without fear of a Scald burn.
  2. Cinco Diablo

    Cinco Diablo

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2012
    Messages:
    1,260
    Hey there, cool team.

    Alright, DragMag is an interesting concept, and I would like to give you some props for using it. There are some devastating flaws that this team has, and I would like to iron out those flaws with my rate. With that said, let's get to the rate! Alright, two threats I can see off the bad are Mamoswine and Stealth Rock. The former can absolutely smash you with Earthquake and Icicle Crash and pick off your weakened Pokes with a priority Ice Shard. Meanwhile, Stealth Rock is a huge threat here, as they mitigate both Dragonite's and Salamence's sweeping potential. These two problems can be easily solved by using a Swords Dance Scizor in place of your current Dragonite. Swords Dance Scizor is an excellent choice for DragMag teams, as he can easily KO Mamoswine, which I previously stated was a huge threat to your team. Scizor also prevents you from having 2 Pokemon weak to Stealth Rock, which you do not want. Now, I'm going to nitpick a bit. On Espeon, I would like to suggest running Hidden Power Fire over Baton Pass. Hidden Power Fire helps against Ferrothorn, Forretress, and especially Scizor, which can easily Pursuit trap it. Well, that's all I can say for now. I hope my advice helped even if just a little. Have fun and good luck in your future endeavours!

    Scizor (open)

    [​IMG]
    Scizor @ Life Orb Lv. 100 -- Technician

    Nature: Adamant - EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd ​

    - Swords Dance
    - Superpower
    - Bullet Punch
    - Bug Bite


    TL;DR (open)

    • Dragonite [​IMG]--------------------------> Swords Dance Scizor [​IMG]
    • Espeon [​IMG]: Baton Pass -> Hidden Power Fire


    ~Dr Ciel~ (The doctor is OUT)
  3. rayquazamaster776

    rayquazamaster776

    Joined:
    Jun 17, 2008
    Messages:
    217

    I've used that Scizor enough times to know how effective it is; I'll certainly test it out. HP Fire on Espeon is an easy change as well, especially since I never seem to use Baton Pass.
  4. Alexander.

    Alexander.
    is a Team Rater Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2012
    Messages:
    1,782
    Hey!

    Cool team you have here, DragMag is an excellent strategy so props for using it. However, I have some advice to give you so let's go with the rate. Well, first of all, I see that you haven't a Stealth Rock user, that's really bad because Stealth Rock is very very important in the current bw ou since it allows to deal threats like Volcarona, Dragonite, Salamence and Thundurus-T more easily. Therefore, I suggest you to change Garchomp's set in a Stealth Rock setter one. An EV spread of 252 Atk / 252 Spe / 4 SAtk with a moveset of Outrage, Earthquake, Fire Blast and Stealth Rock, with a Naive nature and with Focus Sash should work fine in your team. Now with this change, you haven't a Choice Scarf user to outspeed threats like Dragonite after a Dragon Dance, therefore I suggest you to change Salamence's item into a Choice Scarf and to change Dragon Dance into Dragon Claw accordingly. Choice Scarf Salamence is a great revenge-killer and it can help you to deal many threats after their boost move. Then, on Latios I suggest you to use Psyshock replacing Dragon Pulse because it with Draco Meteor is really redundant, otherwise Psyshock is useful to hit harder threats like Calm Mind Keldeo, Terrakion if sandstorm is up and wall like Amoongusss and it's, in general, a better move than Dragon Pulse on Latios. Next, I don't understand why you are using Serious on your Magnezone because it's really a bad nature since it's a neutral nature, therefore I suggest you to use Timid nature instead of Serious nature. Finally, as Dr. Ciel already said, I'd use Hidden Power Fire replacing Baton Pass on Espeon which allows you to hit hard Ferrothorn, Forretress and Scizor.

    gl.
  5. LucaroarkZ

    LucaroarkZ

    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2011
    Messages:
    1,364
    I like DragMag as a play style, having made many DragMag teams in the past. However, I feel that there are some changes that could be made. The most obvious one is the lack of Stealth Rock, which is very important. Therefore, I agree with Alexander's change of Garchomp to the Stealth Rock set. Garchomp is able to set up Stealth Rock easily thanks to its good bulk, while not sacrificing offense. However, I disagree with the item choice of Focus Sash. As for running ScarfMence over DDMence, you should probably do that, but I think you could do with running Choice Scarf > Choice Specs on Latios; this team is really weak to Scarf Keldeo, so running a Pokemon that outspeeds it would be helpful. You'll want to run Psyshock on it over Dragon Pulse as well, especially for "KILL THAT DAMN KELDEO" purposes.

    Also, I'm probably a minority voice here, but I disagree with running HP Fire on Espeon. HP Fire does not even come close to OHKOing Ferrothorn, who does enough with Gyro Ball to discourage you from staying in. Baton Pass actually helps you more against Scizor, since you only have a mere 25% chance to OHKO Scizor with HP Fire (no Stealth Rock seeing as you're not always going to have that up when Espeon's out). You have Magnezone and plenty of Fire moves for all of these threats anyway, while ditching Baton Pass is going to allow Tyranitar to click Pursuit with no repercussions. HP Fighting won't help you there; it is so piss-weak that its chances of 2HKOing standard CBTar are under 20%, and it's never even going to do 40% to SpD Tyranitar. I'm not joking. Here are the calcs:

    4 SpA Espeon Hidden Power Fighting vs. 180 HP / 0 SpD Tyranitar in sand: 172-204 (44.55 - 52.84%) -- 17.19% chance to 2HKO

    4 SpA Espeon Hidden Power Fighting vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Tyranitar in sand: 124-148 (30.69 - 36.63%) -- guaranteed 4HKO

    So, yeah. I say keep Baton Pass because it is guaranteed to help you against Tyranitar since Baton Pass escapes Pursuit, and you have Magnezone + plenty of Fire moves to help against anything Weak Power Fire would "help" you with.

    Now, I don't like Sub Magnezone. I have always used Choice Specs Magnezone because it always OHKOes Ferrothorn outside of Rain and does way better against Ferrothorn in Rain than any other Magnezone set. Setting up a Sub against Rain Ferrothorn is basically saying "Hey, Ferrothorn! Set up hazards on me!" It can also contribute to your team with Volt Switch, helping some of your members get in safely. It still helps against Steels like Sub Magnezone did, but I just think having Volt Switch would be more helpful overall than Substitute (at least it has been in my experience). The set looks something like this:

    Magnezone @ Choice Specs
    Trait: Magnet Pull
    EVs: 168 HP / 252 SpA / 88 Spe
    Modest Nature
    - Thunderbolt
    - Volt Switch
    - Hidden Power Fire
    - Flash Cannon

    The EVs are used to outrun 4 Spe Skarmory. I did that because I speed creep everything, but you don't need to do speed creep.

    Anyway, this last bit is just a small nitpick, but I would run Psyshock on Espeon instead of Psychic. Psyshock does similar damage to Psychic on most targets, but having some extra insurance for a weakened Calm Mind Keldeo is always helpful.

    That's all I got for now. Good luck.
  6. fire r a g e

    fire r a g e

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2011
    Messages:
    115
    Actually, Gyro Ball only does 39-46% on Max HP Espeon while HP Fire always 2HKOes standard Ferrothorn, so HP Fire is still viable.
  7. LucaroarkZ

    LucaroarkZ

    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2011
    Messages:
    1,364
    My calc said something like 68% minimum, so yeah. I checked against various other threats, and my calc does change Gyro Ball's Base Power according to the target's Speed (I checked to make sure). I am using this one. We have to assume that Reflect isn't up (odds are you're switching Espeon in on Ferrothorn on predicted hazards, not the other way around) so have fun keeping Espeon in on that Ferrothorn to HP Fire it twice and be severely weakened afterwards.

    Regardless, he has Magnezone and many Fire attacks for Ferrothorn anyway, so I don't see how HP Fire is really necessary. I'd much rather have Baton Pass to escape from any non-Scarf Tyranitar for free, and escaping from Tyranitar is a pretty big deal since you get to go to your Tyranitar check AND keep Espeon.
  8. Episode36

    Episode36

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2012
    Messages:
    135
    I see Mamoswine (of course) and Weavile (of course) being HUGE issues, seriously, huge. Where is your counter to either one? They literally take out 5-6 of your Pokemon and you can't do anything. Scarf Keldeo is also a major issue. Outspeeds everything you have, has HP Ice or Icy Wind for 4 of your Pokemon, Secret Sword/Hydro Pump/HP Fire for Magnezone, and if you switch in Espeon, then oh well, he switches to one of his other 5 Pokemon and possibly U-Turns to a counter.

    While 4 drag is a novel strategy, you need to seriously think about having at least one counter to the aformentioned Pokemon. Scizor and Jirachi are pretty decent counters to Mamoswine and Weavile. You might consider making Latios wear a scarf to deal with scarf Keldeo, and then switch scarf on Garchomp to Band or something.

    Those are all of my thoughts. Good luck!
  9. fire r a g e

    fire r a g e

    Joined:
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