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Dragonair

Discussion in 'BW NU' started by drakon136, Jul 11, 2012.

  1. drakon136

    drakon136

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    Messages:
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    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    Dragonair
    Traits: Shed Skin | Marvel Scale
    61 | 84 | 65 | 70 | 70 | 70

    Dragonair is one of the 5 NFE Dragons residing in the NU tier, along with Fraxure, Gabite, Shelgon and Zweilous. Dragonair often finds itself competing with these other Dragon-types for a place on a team, and at first glance, it's easy to see why. It doesn't have overwhelming attack like Fraxure or Zweilous, it doesn't have Shelgon's monstrous defense, and it has an inferior offensive typing in comparison to Gabite. However, there are a few things that make it stand out. First and foremost, Dragonair has access to ExtremeSpeed, something these other Dragons only wished that had. Second, it has access to two amazing abilities in Shed Skin and Marvel Scale. Thanks to the additions in BW2, Dragonair is now able to utilize a Rest-Talk set with Marvel Scale to boost its defense to levels even greater than Shelgon's!

    Example Sets:

    [​IMG]
    Dragonair @ Eviolite
    Trait: Shed Skin
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
    Careful Nature
    - Dragon Dance
    - Outrage
    - Waterfall
    - Rest

    This is Dragonair's most common set, for a good reason. Dragonair has an excellent defensive typing, ability and bulk, so why not capitalize on that with a bulky set? However, this set has trouble getting past the bulkiest of walls, such as Tangela and Amoonguss, even at +2.

    [​IMG]
    Dragonair @ Life Orb
    Trait: Shed Skin
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
    Adamant Nature
    - Dragon Dance
    - Outrage
    - Waterfall
    - ExtremeSpeed

    Although you could argue that Dragonair's offensive Dragon Dance set is outclassed by Fraxure, this serpent still has a few advantages over the axe dinosaur, namely Shed Skin and ExtremeSpeed. Unfortunately, in comparision to the previous set, it is difficult to even set up a single Dragon Dance, let alone two or more.

    [​IMG]
    Dragonair @ Eviolite
    Trait: Marvel Scale
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
    Impish Nature
    - Dragon Dance
    - Rest
    - Sleep Talk
    - Outrage / Dragon Tail

    Generally, Shelgon is better suited for a defensive role than Dragonair, but Marvel Scale changes that. Thanks to BW2, Sleep Talk is now legal with Marvel Scale, making a bulky Rest-Talk set viable. One one hand, it is much easier to set up Dragon Dances than with the other two sets. One the other, Probopass and Bastiodon laugh at you. Dragon Tail offsets this a bit, but the loss of power compared to Outrage is quite noticeable.


    So what do you all think of Dragonair? Are there any other effective sets it can run? How dangerous is it in this meta?
    Discuss away!
  2. Paradoxus

    Paradoxus

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    Rest-Talk Parashuffler is quite possibly the scariest thing ive ever seen in NU and should be a whole other set. EVs and Nature are entirely different.

    But I have a much better spread for it.

    Dragonair @ Eviolite
    Trait: Marvel Scale
    EVs: 252 Atk / 80 SDef / 176 Spd
    Jolly Nature
    - Dragon Dance
    - Rest
    - Sleep Talk
    - Dragon Tail

    With Toxic Spikes and other hazards (mostly toxic spikes) this set is amazing. Pair it up with a Psychic type to deal with Poison types and spinners that ruin your day and your set. When asleep and with +1 Dragon Dance your stats are

    263 HP / 401 Atk / 332 Def / 294 SDef / 363 Spd
  3. uxsee

    uxsee

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    Messages:
    99
    I don't personally like this set. Since you say toxic stalling and phasing is what this set does, a bulkier set is always better on a phaser/staller. No one runs a lot if any investment speed and special attack in milotic (who is the uu dragonair) because it's its job to tank hits and get rid of its threats. Plus, dragonair has to be able to deal with attacks while awake (I.e on the switch in or if it wakes up) due to the unreliability of sleep talk. I would recommend:

    Dragonair @ Eviolite
    Trait: Marvel Scale
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 SDef / 4 Def
    Careful Nature
    - Dragon Dance
    - Rest
    - Sleep Talk
    - Dragon Tail
  4. Cherub Agent

    Cherub Agent
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    I must be honest; I've used Dragonair a LOT recently, it's always stayed on my team, but often it just ends up doing absolutely nothing. RestTalk is incredibly unreliable, even on something as solid as Dragonair. It boosts when it needs to attack, it attacks at +0 when it needs to boost, and it seems that Sleep Talk selects Rest half the time. It's piss weak without being at at least +2 as well. I try to use it as my Sleep absorber by switching it into Amoonguss, but unfortunately it can't touch it, as Amoonguss will just use Clear Smog to get rid of your boosts. However, it IS extraordinarily bulky on the Special side, letting it actually counter Charizard, which is very impressive. I've recently switched it out for Shelgon and have been a bit more impressed. The offensive set is basically outclassed by Fraxure and Altaria, as they hit harder or have other, more useful distinguishing traits than a nonSTAB ExtremeSpeed.
  5. Paradoxus

    Paradoxus

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    While this set is a Toxic Staller, yes, its real job is to use his ludicrous amounts of speed after a Dragon Dance to constantly use Sleep Talk Dragon Tail to do damage to whole teams. And, if they get the chance to hit you (using priority attacks or if they're choice scarfed, both of which make you pretty weak in NU) you probably have full health and you have great defensive stats.

    But yeah, I agree with you, I should change around the EVs a bit. So now I have

    Dragonair @ Eviolite
    Trait: Marvel Scale
    EVs: 136 Def / 200 SDef / 176 Spd
    Jolly Nature
    - Dragon Dance
    - Rest
    - Sleep Talk
    - Dragon Tail

    Which is a much better set. So when I have one dragon dance under my belt and have used rest, my stats are

    263 HP / 306 Atk / 398 Def / 339 SDef / 363 Spd
  6. Cherub Agent

    Cherub Agent
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    For Pokemon with low HP, it's always best to maximise HP first, then to focus on the defensive stats.
  7. Paradoxus

    Paradoxus

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    So now I have

    326 HP / 306 Atk / 336 Def / 291 SDef / 363 Spd
  8. Sweet Jesus

    Sweet Jesus Neal and Jack and me, absent lovers...

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    518
    Been using the rest talk marvel scale set with dragon tail. His defense becomes crazy and with all the beasty physical attackers in the teir, many people (even good players) completley neglect a good special attacker and only run stuff like max def amoonguss and Misdreavus. This sometimes leads dragonair to wall entire teams. I coupled it with bulky carracosta with rocky helmet to set up rocks and counter CB ice punch and it's worked wonderfuly. It does leave me very weak to zweilous and fraxure though. Probopass could be a better partner though he doesn't fit in my team (Bastiodon becomes a bit redundant on phazing).

    This dragoniar's greatest probelm is sub really. It's complete set up bait to anything that has it, especially with d tail 90% accuracy.
  9. uxsee

    uxsee

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    Incon and I built a team around dragonair and we also used caracosta, but with leftovers. The two have amazing synergy. Its really only set up bait for special sweeper like gorebyss (which should be what the rest of the team is for). U can just wall it with regice or get rid of its stat changes with dtail. It does ohko at +2 but u should dtail first. What runs sub setup in nu, Klang? just pair it with boar or get rid of its stat changes with a hazer (clear smog doesn't affect steels).
  10. Sweet Jesus

    Sweet Jesus Neal and Jack and me, absent lovers...

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    Haha I think I was the one who suggested pairing dragonair with regice to Incon. There's other things than Klang that run sub set up. Misdreavus Serperior are examples. Anyway, setting sub alone is a form of set up and dragoniar sucks at breaking subs. I'm thinking outrage might be the better option, I'd have to test it. I wonder if he would be outclassed by Shelgon for that set however. his better special bulk, speed and physical bulk during sleep might make him better though.
  11. Jrod

    Jrod

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    I use this set.

    Dragonair @ Eviolite [Marvel Scale]
    252 HP/ 252 Sp. Def/ 4 Attack [Is it CAREFUL that does +Sp. Def, -Sp. Attack?)

    -Rest
    -Sleep Talk
    -Dragon Tail
    -Thunder Wave

    Eviolite, Marvel Scale, and amazing typing in the NU Metagame makes this set incredibly difficult to take down. I run this alongside more Paralysis (Probopass because synergy), full entry hazards, a spin blocker (Misdreavus because WoW), and two slow ass hard-hitters (Specs Glaceon and Expert Belt Mixed Emboar). The team works by wearing and slowing the team down with hazards and paralysis support, respectively. Then late-game when everything is struggling, you come in with something as menacing as a frozen kitty cat or pig on fire and kill everything. Emboar and Glaceon work really well together.
  12. Paradoxus

    Paradoxus

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    Well there is a much better EV spread. 252 HP / 116 Def / 140 SpDef with a Careful Nature. And this Dragonair isn't meant for late game clean up, she is meant for paralyzing as much of the other team as possible, so slower pokemon on your team can outspeed more pokemon.
  13. Geoboy2000

    Geoboy2000

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    Could you elaborate on the superiority of your EV-spread? I'm not doubting you, I am eager to learn (and it would actually give your post credibility). Thanks in advance.
  14. Paradoxus

    Paradoxus

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    Sorry about that. 1:00 at night isn't a good time for me XD

    Anyway, I used X-Act Defense Applet but sadly I forgot to check off Marvel Scale (again, 1:00 at night) so now the EV's are 252 HP/80 Def/176 SDef.
  15. Jrod

    Jrod

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    Why use that spread? It takes away from Dragonair's special bulk, which is more important that physical because Dragon resists most special attacking types. (Grass, Fire, Electric, Water)
  16. Geoboy2000

    Geoboy2000

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    Samurott, Emboar, Carracosta, Elektross, Floatzel, Sawsbuck. Just the physical STABers that come to mind easily, that Dragonair resists. I probably could think of less special attackers.
    Ignoring physical bulk means you have to dispose all physical threats before you can shuffle.
    I am still not sure a calculated spread is the best option in a rather streamlined Meta.
  17. Amarillo

    Amarillo Lopunny used High Jump Kick!
    is a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

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    The only thing the applet does is making sure that you don't literally waste EVs (as in, if there exists a spread that gains extra stat points with no loss whatsoever) I'd probably see if there's a specific physical attack you don't want to be OHKOed or 2HKOed by, and dump the rest to special defense. Something like +2 Samurott Megahorn, or Scarf Emboar Superpower, or something, as long as it doesn't require too much investment. Or, you could select a specific special attack, like Samurott Ice Beam, and put the rest in physical defense.

    And to be fair, Dragonair's specially defensive typing matters a bit less now that Magmortar was banned, but of the physical attackers that Geoboy mentioned above, things like Carracosta and Sawsbuck have a stronger (and more easily spammable) moves that hit it neutrally.
  18. Geoboy2000

    Geoboy2000

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    All of them have access to easily spammabale moves that hit it at least neutral, and all of them outdamage the resisted hits as far as I see. Just wasn't really my point.
  19. drakon136

    drakon136

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    Personally, I prefer a 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def EV spread with an Impish nature. I'd prefer walling Emboar, Samurott and the like over walling a few weaker special attackers.
  20. oluukeey

    oluukeey

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    Parashuffling Dragonair works perfectly with Throh and Golurk, this gives them the speed required to break teams down due to their decent bulk and great attack. Also you get the fighting-ghost coverage.
  21. Governess

    Governess A Beautiful Blossom Waiting to Bloom
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    In my opinion, defensive Dragonair works best, since, even with DD, it doesn't have that raw power to sweep effectively. Eviolite+ Marvel Scale worked well when I made a team with it. Defenses like that go well together, though, the RestTalk strategy didn't go well for me at all, maybe it's just me :/ but yea, Dragonair is best at paralysing the opponents Pokemon that threatens your own, to give your team a chance to sweep.
    Dragonair could be used in a variety of ways, however. Guess it really depends on your strategy. o3o

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