Dragonite [4N] - Anti-Lead+

[Huntofthelion]

I have tested this set out on shoddy, and so far have had some decent success with it. This is the first new set I've posted, so if I have done anything wrong please bear with me! This is also taking into consideration the HG/SS changes, but I'm pretty sure we're aloud to post sets with new moves in them.


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[SET]
Name: Anti-Lead
move 1: Draco Meteor
move 2: Fire Blast
move 3: ExtremeSpeed
move 4: Earthquake
Ability: Inner Focus
Item: Life Orb
Nature: Quiet
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 SpA / 4 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>Few Pokémon possess the ability to beat most common leads quite like Dragonite. Inner Focus prevents Dragonite from being flinched, which lets it better take on common leads such as Infernape and Jirachi, who rely on flinch moves to carry out their lead plan. By using the combination of any of his other three attacks plus ExtremeSpeed, Dragonite is able to muscle his way through almost all frail leads. For the bulkier ones, such as Hippowdon and Swampert, Draco Meteor will deal a crippling blow and 2HKO them should they stay in for a subsequent one. Unlike many common leads, Dragonite can also contribute later in the match by performing the role of a quality mixed sweeper, and a revenge killer with ExtremeSpeed</p>

<p>Life Orb is the item of choice due to the many KOs it ensures. Gaining 2HKOs against Swampert and Jirachi, as well as possible OHKOs on Metagross and Shuca Berry Heatran, making it by far the most useful item. The EVs are very straightforward, maximizing both attacking stats without losing any bulk. Four speed EVs allow Dragonite to outspeed zero speed Metagross ensuring you can 2HKO Occa Berry versions with Fire Blast plus Earthquake before it beats you with two Meteor Mashes. If Metagross doesn't have Occa Berry, you have a good chance to OHKO it with Fire Blast and not let it achieve anything at all.</p>

<p>Dragonite will always have to run from anything packing a strong Ice-type attack, or any of the other overused Dragon-types if he lacks Focus Sash. As such, a Steel-type makes an excellent partner to Dragonite. Forretress can lay down all three of the entry hazards, as well as spin them away. This will help Dragonite if he is able to come in later, by easing switch-ins as well as wearing down opponents. Choice Band Scizor can switch in on Latias and Salamence's faster Draco Meteors and take them down with Bullet Punch or Pursuit.Another solid partner is Jirachi, who is able to provide Wish support to keep Dragonite and the rest of the team in good health. Lastly, Magnezone is able to trap opposing Steel-types, which opens the way for Dragonite to fire off his STAB Draco Meteors with little concern. It's also a good idea to keep in mind that after a Draco Meteor, there are several Pokemon that can come in and set up for free, so keeping around something that can scare off Pokemon such as Gyarados is a necessity. </p>


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Major Update: From LR's suggestions both here and on IRC, I removed Lum Berry/ Focus Sash from the items options, as well as Brick Break and HP Grass from the move slot options. As a result, I'm sort of at a loss as to whether or not I should add in a paragraph about the moves, since there really aren't any notable other options. Some feedback on that would be great, and any other suggestions are also appreciated.

 

[MetaNite]

Sup Hunt!

I have tested this set out on shoddy, and so far have had some decent success with it. This is the first new set I've posted, so if I have done anything wrong please bear with me! This is also taking into consideration the HG/SS changes, but I'm pretty sure we're aloud to post sets with new moves in them.


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[SET]
Name: Anti-Lead
move 1: Draco Meteor
move 2: Fire Blast
move 3: ExtremeSpeed
move 4: Earthquake / Brick Break
Ability: Inner Focus
Item: Lum Berry / Focus Sash
Nature: Quiet
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 SpA / 4 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>Few Pokémon possess the ability to beat most common leads quite like Dragonite. Being able to OHKO or 2HKO the majority of them, possessing decent bulk, access to priority, and the ability Inner Focus all contribute to this.(This is just kind of repeating what you say next in a much less in depth way, so you may want to remove it for concise issues) Inner Focus prevents Dragonite from being flinched, which lets it better take on common leads such as Infernape and Jirachi. By using the combination of its other moves plus ExtremeSpeed, Dragonite is able to muscle his way through almost all frail leads. For the bulkier ones, such as Hippowdon and Swampert, Draco Meteor is able to deal a crippling blow before switching out to another Pokémon better suited to combat them. Unlike many of the more popular leads, Dragonite can contribute later in the match by performing the role of a quality mixed sweeper.</p>

<p>The choice of item really comes down to preference, as both can be equally handy. Lum Berry allows Dragonite to handle sleep inducing leads, such as Roserade, with ease. It also helps should Dragonite survive his leading duties to return later in the game, by preventing him from being crippled by status. Focus Sash, on the other hand, prevents him from being OHKO’d by unexpected Ice-type attacks, as well as being able to take on Explosions and live to fight another turn.</p>

<p>The attack in the last slot depends on if you’d rather have the reliable power from Earthquake, or the ability to fully negate Dual Screen leads with Brick Break. By using Earthquake, Dragonite does not have to spend a Draco Meteor taking out leads such as Infernape, whom he fails to 2HKO otherwise. He also gains the OHKO on non-Shuca Berry Heatran; however he will have no chance of OHKOing Tyranitar. Hidden Power Grass is also a viable option if only to 2HKO Swampert.</p>

<p>The EVs are very straightforward, maximizing both attacking stats without losing any bulk. Four speed EVs allow Dragonite to outspeed neutral natured, zero Speed investment Metagross, which ensures the 2HKO with Fire Blast.

<p>Dragonite will always have to run from anything packing a strong Ice-type attack, or any of the other overused Dragon-types if he lacks Focus Sash. As such, a Steel-type makes an excellent partner to Dragonite. Forretress can lay down all three of the entry hazards, as well as spin them away. This will help Dragonite if he is able to come in later, by easing switch-ins as well as wearing down opponents. Another solid partner is Jirachi, who is able to provide Wish support to keep Dragonite and the rest of the team in good health. Lastly, Magnezone is able to trap opposing Steel-types, which opens the way for Dragonite to fire off his STAB Draco Meteors with little concern.</p>

This is a good set. Not much else to say...

 

[Huntofthelion]

Thanks for the edits, will add them in now!

 

[ungulateman]

Ah, this set is the one that was going around IRC a month or so back. I think it's worth including Life Orb as an item option, otherwise you can't 2HKO Swampert and Hippowdon with Draco Meteor. I think you should also mention that this set is more about killing your opponent, rather than stopping SR. It's built for teams who don't really need SR, and don't care about their opponent using SR much either - they just care about an immediate 6-5 advantage.

 

[Huntofthelion]

Ah, this set is the one that was going around IRC a month or so back. I think it's worth including Life Orb as an item option, otherwise you can't 2HKO Swampert and Hippowdon with Draco Meteor. I think you should also mention that this set is more about killing your opponent, rather than stopping SR. It's built for teams who don't really need SR, and don't care about their opponent using SR much either - they just care about an immediate 6-5 advantage.

Both of those are good points, the only thing I disagree with is being built for teams that don't need SR, as that isn't necessarily true, although it's probably better if you aren't relying on it right away.

Thanks for the suggestions!

EDIT: Thanks Tery, wouldn't want to forget that!

 

[-Terywj-]

<p>The EVs are very straightforward, maximizing both attacking stats without losing any bulk. Four speed EVs allow Dragonite to outspeed neutral nature, zero speed investment Metagross, which ensures the 2HKO with Fire Blast.

Just posting a very tiny thing. You forgot the </p> at the end of this section.
But overall, nice job! :)

-Terywj

 

[Legacy Raider]

I would strongly consider having Life Orb as the primary option for this set. It just provides so many crucial KOs against bulkier leads that it's hard to pass it up for any other item, and the boost also makes Dragonite much more useful as a wallbreaker and revenge killer later on in the game as well. Focus Sash and Lum Berry are by themselves both very poor items for Dragonite to use. Focus Sash is mostly a waste on Dragonite seeing as none of the top 10 leads tend to carry any attacks that can OHKO him (252 Atk Aerodactyl Rock Slide: 68.7 - 81.7% and Dragonite won't flinch; 0 SpA Swampert Ice Beam: 74.3 - 87.9%; 0 Atk Hippowdon Ice Fang: 66.9 - 79.3%; no point trying to survive Tyranitar's Stone Edge since its sandstorm will take you out anyway). Lum Berry isn't worth it over Life Orb either only to get an upper hand against Roserade and Smeargle (who together made up only 7.14% of leads last month) either, both of whom can be dealt with by running a status absorber elsewhere on your team.

Here's how Dragonite fares against common leads with and without Life Orb:

Azelf
Against 0 HP versions it doesn't make too much of a difference whether you have LO or not. Both ways you are guaranteed to take it out with Draco Meteor followed by ExtremeSpeed. However, with LO, you are guaranteed to take it out with 2 ExtremeSpeeds as well, meaning you don't have to risk a Draco Meteor miss or suffer its SpA drop. Without LO, you will never 2HKO 0 HP Azelf with ExtremeSpeed without a crit:

ExtremeSpeed vs 0/0 Azelf: 41.2 - 48.8%
LO ExtremeSpeed vs 0/0 Azelf: 53.6 - 63.2%

This is a minor point, since both with and without LO you only give suicide Azelf 1 turn. I would still always Draco Meteor then Espeed even if I have LO, because first turn you can't tell whether Azelf is the suicide lead or the increasingly popular max HP dual screens lead, who you don't want to give any more turns than you need to, and against who LO's power boost is very helpful.

Lets assume Azelf uses Light Screen first followed by Reflect, since this is the best move for it to do (an unReflected ExtremeSpeed still hits weaker than a Light Screened Draco Meteor, so if it does it the other way around in order to catch you out it will die with only 1 screen up). The best move for Dragonite's user is to Draco Meteor followed by 2 ExtremeSpeeds, since this will do the most damage against Azelf in any situation (and is what you would do against the more common standard suicide Azelf lead as well, with the only difference being that Azelf won't survive Dragonite's 1st ESpeed). Here's how Dragonite with and without LO will fare:

non-LO Draco Meteor vs Light Screen 252/0 Azelf: 39.8 - 46.9%; averaging 43.3%
non-LO ExtremeSpeed vs 252/0 Azelf: 33.9 - 40.1%; averaging 37.0%
non-LO ExtremeSpeed vs Reflect 252/0 Azelf: 17.2 - 20.3%; averaging 18.6%

Average total damage roll: 43.3 + 37.0 + 18.6 = 98.9%
From this, you can see that if both Dragonite and Azelf use their best combination of moves, without a Life Orb Dragonite will on average fail to KO Azelf with these moves, and will give it 3 turns of setup (both screens + SR or both screens + Explosion).

LO Draco Meteor vs Light Screen 252/0 Azelf: 51.7 - 61.0%; averaging 56.1%
LO ExtremeSpeed vs 252/0 Azelf: 44.1 - 56.0%; averaging 48.3%

Average total damage roll: 56.1 + 48.3 = 104.4%
If both Dragonite and Azelf use their best combination of moves, Dragonite will on average KO Azelf with Draco Meteor followed by a single ExtremeSpeed. This gives Azelf 1 turn of setup on average (in fact, it will die to DM+ES over 2/3rds of the time).

tl;dr - without LO, ds Azelf will on average get 3 turns of setup; with LO, ds Azelf will on average only get 1 turn of setup.

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Metagross
It's worth noting that both neutral Metagross and Quiet Dragonite sit on the exact same Speed stat, 176, and from experience I can say most proficient Metagross lead users run somewhere in the region of 12 to 24 Spe EVs on it, so with the given EVs you should expect to be outsped by opposing Metagross most of the time. Dragonite will always survive 252 Atk Metagross' Meteor Mash followed by Bullet Punch (64.4% average from MM and 26.3% average from BP), but will never survive two consecutive Meteor Mashes. If the opposing Metagross user sees that he outsped you, there is a good chance he will go for a second Meteor Mash to finish you off instead of leaving you weakened with Bullet Punch. For this reason, I think it's really quite important for Dragonite to be able to OHKO non-Occa Metagross with its Fire Blast.

non-LO Fire Blast vs 252/0 Metagross: 72.0 - 85.2%; averaging 78.0%

LO Fire Blast vs 252/0 Metagross: 93.4 - 110.4%; averaging 101.7%

tl;dr - with LO Dragonite will on average OHKO non-Occa Metagross with Fire Blast; without LO Dragonite will never OHKO Metagross. Without LO, Earthquake isn't guaranteed to 2HKO 252/0 Metagross.

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Jirachi

non-LO Earthquake vs 4/0 Jirachi: 65.7 - 77.4%; averaging 71.0%
non-LO Fire Blast vs 4/0 Jirachi: 70.4 - 83.3%; averaging 76.8%
non-LO ExtremeSpeed vs 4/0 Jirachi: 13.2 - 15.5%; averaging 14.1%

Maximum damage roll of EQ+ES: 77.4 + 15.5 = 92.9%
Maximum damage roll of FB+ES: 83.3 + 15.5 = 98.9%

LO Earthquake vs 4/0 Jirachi: 84.8 - 100.0%
LO Fire Blast vs 4/0 Jirachi: 91.2 - 107.6%
LO ExtremeSpeed vs 4/0 Jirachi: 17.0 - 19.9%

Minimum damage roll of LO EQ+ES: 84.8 + 17.0 = 101.8%
Minimum damage roll of LO EQ+ES: 91.2 + 17.0 = 108.2%

tl;dr - without LO you will never KO scarf Jirachi with Earthquake or Fire Blast followed by ExtremeSpeed; with LO you will always KO scarf Jirachi with Earthquake or Fire Blast followed by ExtremeSpeed.

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Aerodactyl
Next to no difference, both ways you will take it out with Draco Meteor + ExtremeSpeed. Better off without LO against Aero since you don't have to take 20% LO recoil to beat it.

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Swampert

non-LO Draco Meteor vs 252/0 Swampert: 56.7 - 66.8%; averaging 61.6%
non-LO -2 SpA Draco Meteor vs 252/0 Swampert: 28.5 - 33.7%; averaging 30.8%

Maximum damage roll of 2 DMs + Lefties: 66.8 + 33.7 - 6.3 = 94.2%

LO Draco Meteor vs 252/0 Swampert: 73.5 - 86.9%; averaging 80%
LO -2 SpA Draco Meteor vs 252/0 Swampert: 37.1 - 43.8%; averaging 40.2%

Minimum damage roll of 2 DMs + Lefties: 73.5 + 37.1 - 6.3 = 104.3%

tl;dr - without LO, Dragonite will never KO Swampert with 2 Draco Meteors; with LO Dragonite will always KO Swampert with 2 Draco Meteors.

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Smeargle / Roserade
You're obviously best off with Lum Berry, but I really feel it's not worth dropping LO for it when you can just use a ResTalker or a Natural Cure Pokemon elsewhere on your team. Just because two leads can induce sleep doesn't mean every other lead is obligated to run Lum Berry to deal with them. Also I think the trend of sleep leads will fall by next month with everyone preparing for them by running Lum Berry Metagross, Taunt Azelf, etc.

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Infernape
Same as Aerodactyl, you KO with DM + ES either way.

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Ninjask
You 2HKO 176/0 Ninjask with ExtremeSpeed either way. However, it's worth noting that with LO, you average 76.5% against it with ExtremeSpeed, meaning it will not be able to pass a Sub on average. That means at best it will pass +1 Speed, whereas without LO it will always be able to pass +2 Speed.

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Heatran

non-LO Earthquake vs 0/0 Shuca Heatran: 66.3 - 78.0%; averaging 71.8%
non-LO ExtremeSpeed vs 0/0 Shuca Heatran: 13.0 - 15.5%; averaging 14.2%

Maximum damage roll of EQ+ES: 78.0 + 15.5 = 93.5%

LO Earthquake vs 0/0 Shuca Heatran: 85.4 - 100.9%; averaging 92.8%
LO ExtremeSpeed vs 0/0 Shuca Heatran: 17.0 - 20.1%

Minimum damage roll of LO EQ+ES: 85.4 + 17.0 = 102.4%

tl;dr - without LO, Dragonite will never KO Shuca Heatran with Earthquake + ExtremeSpeed and risks being Exploded on; with LO, Dragonite will always KO Shuca Heatran with Earthquake + ExtremeSpeed, and will only ever allow it 1 turn.

---


From the above list, you can see that against the top 10 leads, compared to a non-LO version, LO Dragonite will fare significantly better against 6 of them, as well a non-LO version against 2 of them, and the only cost being not being able to take on Sleep inducing leads. This is not taking into account the fact that with LO this Dragonite set can serve as both an excellent wallbreaker (bulkier MixMence with a priority attack (and a stronger DM than +Speed versions of MixMence)) and as a great revenge killer (this Dragonite's ExtremeSpeed is about 9% stronger than Adamant LO Lucario's). Overall, I hope my post been convincing enough to show that Life Orb is definitely the best item for this set.

tl;dr - I would have Life Orb as the only option in the item slot - Focus Sash doesn't deserve mention by any means, and Lum Berry is so specific to 2 leads that I feel it should only be mentioned in set comments, if that.

 

[Huntofthelion]

Alright, thank you for the info!

I never really got to testing LO, but seeing that many important calcs convinces me.

 

[franky]

Just throwing it out there, would Dragon Pulse work as a mention? I mean, i'm one of those guys that don't like to give free set-ups from someone like Gyarados' Dragon Dance after using a Draco Meteor. I could be wrong because it could miss out on certain OHKOes.

 

[Huntofthelion]

Just throwing it out there, would Dragon Pulse work as a mention? I mean, i'm one of those guys that don't like to give free set-ups from someone like Gyarados' Dragon Dance after using a Draco Meteor. I could be wrong because it could miss out on certain OHKOes.

It's needed for a few KOs, considering that the difference in base power is 50. If you use this set, you do need something that can scare out sweepers looking to take advantage of the drop in special attack.

 

[Xia]

Major Update: From LR's suggestions both here and on IRC, I removed Lum Berry/ Focus Sash from the items options, as well as Brick Break and HP Grass from the move slot options. As a result, I'm sort of at a loss as to whether or not I should add in a paragraph about the moves, since there really aren't any notable other options. Some feedback on that would be great, and any other suggestions are also appriciated.

This issue cuold easily be dealt with by adding a mention of the alternative move options and items in the Other Options section of the Dragonite analysis.

 

[Legacy Raider]

Just throwing it out there, would Dragon Pulse work as a mention? I mean, i'm one of those guys that don't like to give free set-ups from someone like Gyarados' Dragon Dance after using a Draco Meteor. I could be wrong because it could miss out on certain OHKOes.

Dragonite doesn't really have a single moveslot in which it could fit Dragon Pulse, and the problem with the move is that two Draco Meteors still hit harder than two Dragon Pulses (roughly 140+70 =210, 90+90=180). Dragonite won't be able to guarantee 2HKOs with lefties on Swampert or even 88 SpD Hippowdon with two Dragon Pulses, and by using Pulse + Meteor you're faced with the same problem that led you to add Pulse in the first place.

Anyway, some small nitpicks and a couple of suggestions for bits to add:

blue = add
red = omit
green = my comments

<p>Few Pokémon possess the ability to beat most common leads quite like Dragonite. Inner Focus prevents Dragonite from being flinched, which lets it better take on common leads such as Infernape and Jirachi who rely on their flinch moves to carry out their lead plan. By using the combination of any of his other three attacks plus ExtremeSpeed, Dragonite is able to muscle his way through almost all frail leads. For the bulkier ones, such as Hippowdon and Swampert, Dragonite's Draco Meteor will deal a crippling blow and will 2HKO them if they stay in for the subsequent one (just a bit confused why you would switch out of a 27% Swampert or 25% Hippowdon). Unlike many common leads, Dragonite can also contribute later in the match by performing the role of a quality mixed sweeper and revenge killer with ExtremeSpeed.</p>

<p>Life Orb is the item of choice due to the many KOs it ensures. Gaining 2HKOs against Swampert and Jirachi, as well as possible OHKOs on Metagross and Shuca Berry Heatran, makes it by far the most helpful item for Dragonite. It also lets Dragonite continue to be effective later in the game, by becoming a very strong mixed-sweeper.</p> (You've already mentioned this in the first paragraph. I would merge the first part of this paragraph with the next one)

<p>The EVs are very straightforward, maximizing both attacking stats without losing any bulk. Four speed EVs allow Dragonite to outspeed neutral nature, zero speed investment Metagross, ensuring you can 2HKO Occa Berry versions with Fire Blast plus Earthquake before it beats you with two Meteor Mashes. If Metagross doesn't have Occa Berry, you have a good chance to OHKO it with Fire Blast and not let it achieve anything at all.</p>

<p>Dragonite will always have to run from anything packing a strong Ice-type attack, or any of the other overused Dragon-types if he lacks Focus Sash. As such, a Steel-type makes an excellent partner to Dragonite. Forretress can lay down all three of the entry hazards, as well as spin them away. This will help Dragonite if he is able to come in later, by easing switch-ins as well as wearing down opponents. Choice Band Scizor can switch in on Latias and Salamence's faster Draco Meteors and take them down with Bullet Punch or Pursuit. Another solid partner is Jirachi, who is able to provide Wish support to keep Dragonite and the rest of the team in good health. Lastly, Magnezone is able to trap opposing Steel-types, which opens the way for Dragonite to fire off his STAB Draco Meteors with little concern. It's also a good idea to keep in mind that after a Draco Meteor, there are several Pokemon that can come in and set up for free, so keeping around something that can scare off Pokemon such as Gyarados is a necessity._</p>

It seems like a lot, but really my changes were mostly technical anyway. This looks to be almost complete, so if there no more comments after you've fixed the nitpicks I'll get this up on site.

 

[Huntofthelion]

Thanks again for the help LR!

Updated it with your changes.

 

[Legacy Raider]

Uploaded, moving to archives.