Dragonite (Analysis)

[capefeather]

EV issues fixed and Dragon Dance sets written. *phew* "Ready for QC" is not something that I've been willing to say, but honestly this needs some kind of mandate to guide any revamp that's needed.

1. Adamant Excadrill has a 275 Speed stat. Two Dragon Dances coming from a 251 Speed stat will not outspeed it.

2. Abusing Hurricane on a Physical-Oriented Attacker IS a dirty tactic. But once again, it's just for consistency.

3. They are free points. That's all there is to it.

1. clarified in the analysis
2. ...
3. Not that I know which set you're talking about, but that one point in Attack has to come from somewhere...

 

[Bugbot]

1. I fixed my previous post because I found out why the EVs were incorrect for me (220 only works when the nature is Jolly). My apologies... anyway, unslash Adamant and mention "Adamant with 216 Speed EVs" and it should look better now :P

2. Okay, I give up on this one...

3. Any set that don't have 252 EVs in Attack should have an even number for the attacking stat (look at Delta 277's Scrafty analysis). I meant the Offensive Dragon Dancer set, but yeah, the set is fine as it is (now that I understand what was so wrong about the spread for me).

 

[SlimMan]

I doubt this is worth a mention, but...

On the Offensive DD set, running 252 Speed EVs allows you to out-run neutral nature ChloroSaur running HP Fire (which is the only common ChloroSaur) once you get +2.
So yeah, 252 Speed EVs for ChloroSaur, but it's so specific that it may not be worth putting in the analysis.

 

[RaikouLover]

For offensive DD, I really wouldn't even bother with outspeeding stupidly fast shit with Dragonite, its not his niche at all. He is there to abuse the safe Multi-Scale set up and Extremespeed. So mentions of Jolly Exadrill is pointless.. Anyway, here is what it should probably look like:

name: Offensive Dragon Dance
move 1: Dragon Dance
move 2: Dragon Claw / Outrage
move 3: Fire Punch
move 4: ExtremeSpeed / Earthquake

Dragon Claw is used with Extremespeed, Outrage with Earthquake. Pretty simple. The ONLY point of emphasis for a set like this over Salamence is multi-Scales pretty much guarenteed set up. Other than that, Salamence is much better.

Also, the leftovers special attacker doesn't hit hard enough at all....

 

[yee]

I disagree about the leftovers special attacker, it seems like a premium fit into rain teams as a bulky pivot and dangerous pokemon, you can check things like Conkeldurr and Volcarona easily with it while threatening 30% confusion, 30% paralysis or a Brick Break on your special wall (although this needs lots of hazards to work, Forretress is ideal). You have wide coverage that can threaten anything in some way while packing enough of a punch to OHKO Conkeldurr and bulk to abuse Multi-Scale.

 

[RaikouLover]

With all that being said, it's still slow and relatively weak if its not hitting super effective. Some support options like Thunder Wave is probably useful. But Hurricane without a Life Orb isn't all that impressive and Brick Break is just pathetic.

 

[capefeather]

I might as well explain my reasoning for recent reordering:

Metagame shifts aside, it would be great to have a sort of timeless quality with the set ordering. The Dragon Dance sets pretty much define the anti-metagame role that Dragonite can serve. Barely anything tries to be faster than Tornadus and Thundurus - Choice Scarf Politoed, Choice Scarf Garchomp, Excadrill, and Chlorophyll Pokémon essentially have a cartel on the "fast revenge killer" role - and that's unlikely to change for a long time. Therefore, they are at the top; Bulky's above because of Salamence comparison concerns with Offensive, and I'm pretty sure that it's more common, anyway.

Rain and Parashuffler are at the bottom because there's been a bit of a controversy for both of them concerning whether they should even be in the analysis. Between the two, I'm not really sure on the ordering; I can see arguments both ways.

This leaves Choice Band and Mixed. I've barely heard anything on Mixed, but supposedly there's no controversy with it. I'm actually not really sure on this ordering, either...

 

[yee]

Just my input, Choice Band should be directly after the DD sets followed by Mixed, this keeps order in which sets are easiest to fit in a team, without seperating the DD sets. Parashuffler if it gets through should be at the bottom, because its very easy to set up hazards on it and really requires team support to accomplish anything. I believe the two rain sets should be seperated completely if they get in, because it took me a lot of time personally to come up with the rain's version of a mix set and its messy slashed in with the normal mix. It should be after the original rain set because that one is easier to fit into rain teams. I believe personally that it is worth showing ALL of the things Dragonite can do for your team even if it is a long read- newcomers will be impressed by how thorough this is and every set has their unique uses.

In conclusion the order would be-
Bulky DD
Offensive DD
Choice Band
Mixed
Parashuffler
Bulky Rain Abuser
Offensive Rain Abuser

If sets need to be removed, I recommend ditching the Bulky Rain abuser and Parashuffler. The bulky rain abuser seems to do less damage in the long run, and its only notable advantage is that it retains its Multi-Scale. The parashuffler is extremely easy to fit into Other Options. Then it would just be-

Bulky DD
Offensive DD
Choice Band
Mixed
Rain Abuser

Seems simple and thorough to me, while covering all the bases.

 

[Aerodactyl Legend]

Just my input, but if capefeather is satisfied with six sets in this analysis, the ordering honestly looks fine to me.

 

[capefeather]

After giving it some thought, I've decided that the slashes on the Mixed Attacker are rather awkward, and I've split it into Classic and Rain. lol Seven Deadly Sets

 

[lulzer]

I think the new analysis is in a pretty good place right now, but let's see what the QC staff thinks.

What you think about mentioning a 252 HP/252 Atk on AC for the bander? It's pretty interesting in that it can survive through some boosted Dragon-type attacks (can't remember which ones right now) and OHKO back but it deserves an AC or OC comment at maximum.

 

[yee]

On the offensive rain mixed attacker, I would actually slash Brick Break with Roost. I hardly ever use Roost with that thing and there have been times where I want to deal just a little bit more to Ferrothorn and OHKO Tyranitar that believe its a good idea to stay in and Ice Beam you after changing the weather. It takes out the top 2 pokemon (Ferrothorn after taking a Hurricane) and adds to your coverage by nailing Empoleon and the blobs harder. Superpower alongside Inner Focus can be used to, because not fearing Jirachi as much can be HUGE, not to mention after suprising it and not flinching your Latios will love you :)

 

[Megan_Fox]

Do the HP EVs on the Offensive DD set and the CB Set actually help D-nite take any particular attacks? I don't believe listing Max Speed to speed tie at minimum other D-nite's is classified as Speed creep. I think it should be the way to go, the speed could be make it or break it.

 

[RaikouLover]

on Offensive DD, max speed serves no purpose tbh. You can tie with another dragonite but what do you do? You fail to OHKO with Dragon Claw, or you lock yourself into Outrage unboosted and slow... CB set I can see though.

 

[Seven Deadly Sins]

Every time you lose to a Dragonite speed tie, you will kick yourself for not running max speed. It also ties Chandelure and Togekiss, fwiw. What exactly is that HP doing for you anyway?

 

[Delta 2777]

Ok here's my QC crap.

• Move Waterfall and Brick Break to AC for the Bulky Dragon Dancer; Fire Punch by far provides the best coverage and Brick Break is really only useful for Terrakion/Tyranitar, who both take a lot from +1 Dragon Claw.
• Mention what the current EV spread for the Bulky DDer outruns.
• Max out Speed on the offensive DD set, and make it come after both CB and Parashuffler.
• Slash Roost in the fourth slot (alongside Earthquake and Extremespeed). Slash Leftovers alongside Life Orb as the item.
• The moveset for the CB set should look like this:

Hide

move 1: Outrage
move 2: Fire Punch
move 3: Dragon Claw / Waterfall

move 4: Extremespeed

• Waterfall gets all the same KOs (plus flinch chance) and has 100% accuracy, meaning Aqua Tail only needs an AC mention (plus it removes clutter).
• Using Superpower means that you can't use Multiscale, which is a major disadvantage to Dragonite; AC material.

• Remove the Earthquake slash from the mixed set.
• On the Special Attacker (Rain) set, move Dragon Pulse to the AC (redundant coverage).
• Mixed Rain attacker is kind of weird I'll talk to some QC guys about that.

 

[Curtains]

Ive used the choice band set since 4th gen and I think Earthquake should be slashed in with dragonclaw / waterfall . Dragon claw isnt really needed because the purpose of the set is to hit everything as hard as possible to get that KO. Honestly I say dragonclaw should be taken out altogether. Its repetitive and dnite needs all the coverage possible.

 

[capefeather]

Actually, as far as an early-game STAB goes, perhaps Dragon Rush wouldn't be a bad idea? Garchomp has it on its Choice Scarf set, though in its case I'd probably use Dual Chop but that's another issue...

 

[Iconic]

im good with this

QC Approved 1/3

 

[Delta 2777]

QC Approved (2/3)

Also just remove either Aqua Tail or Waterfall from the offensive Rain set and mention it in the AC just to remove clutter. I'd also consider renaming the Rain sets because they're both mixed yet one is called "Mixed Attacker (Rain)".

 

[PK Gaming]

QC APPROVED (3/3)

Excellent job Cape.

 

[RaikouLover]

Honestly, this looks very very good - excellent.

Still kinda "meh" on the Rain Special Attacker (What does it do that MixRainNite doesn't?)

 

[lulzer]

Honestly, this looks very very good - excellent.

Still kinda "meh" on the Rain Special Attacker (What does it do that MixRainNite doesn't?)

Kills Ferrothorn (3HKO if I remember) in the rain with Hurricane, since Fire Blast will do halved damage. Also he can use Thunder to hit bulky waters such as pringles jelly whereas the mixed set would use Draco Meteor and get walled. Basically, he just abuses the 100% accuracy on those moves and does a weird ass parafusion at the same time.
Simple as that.

 

[RaikouLover]

No, the Rain Mixed has Hurricane... and 2HKOs Ferrothorn as opposed to 2HKO with this set. That's what I was referring to.

 

[capefeather]

The term "Mixed Attacker" tends to refer to offensive wallbreakers who use physical and special attacks, so I think that keeping that name is warranted (can't think of a better one). "Special Attacker (Rain)" was changed to "Tank (Rain)". Thanks, everyone!

GP checks gogogo!