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Dragonite (Analysis)

Discussion in 'Locked / Outdated Analyses' started by lulzer, Dec 6, 2010.

  1. lulzer

    lulzer

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2010
    Messages:
    78
    STATUS: BEING QCed
    [​IMG]

    QCed by: PK Gaming, Bloo, Delta 2777


    [​IMG]
    Serebii Pokédex entry: http://www.serebii.net/pokedex-bw/149.shtml


    [OVERVIEW]

    • Relegated to second plane last gen, where first Garchomp and then Salamence proved to be much more threatening dragons;
    • One of the best Dream World abilities, Multi Scale;
    • Great Wall Breaking and Mixed Attacking status;
    • Quite bulky;
    • Can cover many blind spots in a team, but not all at once;
    • Extremely versatile;
    • OHKO or 2HKO almost any pokemon in the game without needing of setup;
    • 4x Ice-type weakness;
    • Weak to Stealth Rock, also it ruins his Multi Scale, leaving him exposed;

    [SET]
    Parashuffler
    move 1: Dragon Tail
    move 2: Roost
    move 3: Thunderwave
    move 4: Substitute
    ability: Multi Scale
    item: Leftovers
    nature: Careful
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpD / 4 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    • Main aim of the set is to spread paralysis and shuffle most of the opposing team;
    • In order to stall the opponent, paralyze him first and proceed to Roost until he can’t move, then proceed to either sub, attack or shuffle;
    • Given the right scenario, can wall an entire team;
    • When running Substitute in the last slot, after 16 Dragon Tail the set becomes almost dead weight, but without it, the set looses a lot of walling power;
    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    • When running Substitute, it's possible to lower the SpD and run 176 Spe EVs so that Dragonite can outspeed Breloom and set a Substitute before it gets Spored, yet that will make taking Ice Beams a lot harder;
    [TEAM OPTIONS]

    • Wish/Rapid Spin support is mandatory in this case, also, Heal Beal support is highly appreciated;
    • Works better with a team who can use lots of entry hazards;
    • On a annoyer team, Erufuun/Monmen appears as great partners, paralyzing Ground-types and providing even more switches with Leech Seed;
    • A counter for Earth-types is a good addition, since they can switch on Thunder Wave and attack Dragonite before getting phased out;

    [SET]
    DDNite
    move 1: Dragon Dance
    move 2: Dragon Claw / Outrage
    move 3: Fire Punch / Brick Break
    move 4: Roost
    ability: Multi Scale
    item: Leftovers / Lum Berry
    nature: Adamant
    Evs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    • Easy to set up because of huge bulk and ability;
    • Dragon Claw is normally used over Outrage due to the ability to change attacks;
    • Roost keeps Dragonite alive for longer, allowing him to keep boosting his Attack and Speed while renewing Multi Scale;
    • Fire Punch appears as a coverage option against bulky Grass-types and floating Steel-types, Brick Break serves to hit mainly Terakion, Tyranitar and Heatran;
    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    • EV spread to raise his bulk to a great level and make him outspeed Scarf Chomp after 2 Dragon Dances;
    • A more agressive set consisting of 252 Atk and 216 Spe EVs with Adamant Nature and a Life Orb is quite viable and, different from popular opinion, not an outclassed Salamence;
    • Waterfall is an option on the last slot to 2HKO Gliscor without getting locked on Outrage;
    • Extreme Speed is and option over Roost for picking off weakened threats and squishy pokemon;
    • An EV spread of 252 HP / 252 SpD with Careful nature can be used in order to abuse Multi Scale;
    [TEAM OPTIONS]

    • The basic Wish support and/or Rapid Spin support will do, also, having a pokemon who can reliably check Cloyster is a good call, something to remove Sandstorm and Hail is also good, but not mandatory;


    [SET]
    Choice Band
    move 1: Outrage
    move 2: Fire Punch
    move 3: Dragon Claw / Waterfall
    move 4: Extreme Speed
    ability: Multi Scale
    item: Choice Band
    nature: Adamant
    EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spe / 4 HP

    [SET COMMENTS]

    • Outrage is a obvious choice in a banded set, due to the massive damage caused;
    • Fire Punch covers the Steel-types that would otherwise wall the set, it's even capable of OHKO Nattorei;
    • Third move is dependant on preference, Dragon/Fire gives almost impecable coverage, so Dragon Claw is an option due to the fact it will not get you locked on a attack, Waterfall hits really hard many threats such as Blaziken, Shandelure and Excadrill, Brick Break serves mostly as a TTar killer while still hitting hard Excadrill, Blissey and Chansey;
    • Extremespeed serves as a almost granted revenge on anything that doesn't resist it;
    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    • EVs for maximum offensive power;
    • A bulkier spread of 252 HP / 252 Atk is viable;
    • Can work quite well as a anti-lead, since it can OHKO many common leads, such as Machamp, Tyranitar, Nattorei and anything frailer, yet, care is needed with Hippodowdon and Swampert;
    • Dragon Claw can be ran over Outrage if one doesn't want to get locked and add some coverage, but the power loss will be pretty big;
    [TEAM OPTIONS]

    • As always, Wish and/or Rapid Spin support to keep Multi-Scale intact;

    • Pairing up with a specially based dragon, such as Specs Lati@s can work wonders, since whatever come in to resist a hit from one of them, is taken down by the other;

    [SET]
    Rain Abuser
    move 1: Hurricane
    move 2: Thunder / Dragon Pulse
    move 3: Brick Break
    move 4: Roost
    ability: Multi Scale
    item: Leftovers
    nature: Modest
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    • Ridiculously damaging attack with shaky accuracy, that goes to 100% on rain;
    • Quite bulky due to Multi Scale, HP investment and Roost;
    • Can counter many threats to rain teams, such as Ferrothorn and Tyranitar;
    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    • Surf can appear as an option to hit Excadrill on the switch if a Sandstorm is ensued;
    • When running both Gale and Thunder, sun becomes a huge issue, as many sun sweepers resist Brick Break and the accuracy of the first moves will get shaky;
    • Dragon Tail can be used over one of the attacks, most likely Brick Break in order to shuffle troublesome threats;
    [SET]
    MixNite
    move 1: Draco Meteor
    move 2: Extreme Speed / Roost
    move 3: Fire Blast
    move 4: Superpower
    ability: Inner Focus
    item: Life Orb
    nature: Rash
    EVs: 252 Atk / 252 SpA / 4 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    • Forgoes any defensive approach to OHKO or 2HKO most of the metagame;
    • Excellent wall breaker;
    • Draco Meteor and Fire attack covers up a lot of foes;
    • Extremespeed grant's the 2HKO in many situations, making DNite a good revenge killer;
    • Superpower turns Multi Scale illegal, but comes with a huge boost in attack power;
    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    • Roost can be ran over Extreme Speed, but Dragonite will lose a lot of power, yet it will be a lot harder to take down;
    • Fire Punch can be used over Fire Blast due to the sheer amount of specially defensive Ferrothorn and the fact that Draco Meteor cuts your SpA in half, while Fire Punch is reduced in effect by Superpower, that is less used and is only -1 Atk;
    • It is possible to run a more durable, less powerful set, by running 116 Atk / 200 SpA / 192 Spe with Rash nature and running Draco Meteor / Roost/ Brick Break / Fire Blast, this will allow the use of Multi Scale, while still OHKOing some important threats;
    [TEAM OPTIONS]

    • This set works well with teams needing a offensive wallbreaker and a lead who can deal with most of the bulkier leads and dispose of them;
    • Providing Wish support and maybe Rapid Spin support makes this set useful for a longer period, since Multi Scale will last longer;

    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    [OPTIONAL CHANGES]


    • Dragonite can run some interesting moves, such as Heal Bell and Haze, but those should be only used in a bulky support set, the problem lies in that Heal Bell is incompatible with Multi Scale;
    • Substitute can be ran in the DD set in place of an attack, making status less problematic, but loosing coverage;

    [SPECIAL MENTIONS]

    • Magic Mirror Espeon / Xatu: These guys grants Dragonite's safety when dealing with entry hazards and status; also, if they carry HP Fire, they become good counters to the bane of most Dragonites, Nattorei, that being said, you could scrap Fire Punch on most sets for another coverage move. Espeon is the better option due to better stats;
    • Hitmontop: After some testing I found Hitmontop one of the best partners for Dragonite, getting rid of entry hazards while being able to 2HKO Excadrill and Terakion with a combination of Fake Out and Mach Punch, boosted by Technitian;
    [COUNTERS]

    • Any pokemon who can survive Dragonite's first blow and attack him twice with a Ice or Stone attack;
    • Stealth Rock leads;
    • Hippowdon, Tyranitar and Abomasnow are great counters to some extent, in that Dragonite's efficiency will drop drastically without Multi Scale protection;
    • Cloyster is the sure check to any Dragonite not running special attacks, as he can take almost any physical hit and OHKO back with Icicle Spear;
    • Ononokusu is a great check, ignoring Multi Scale due to Mold Breaker and dealing obscene damage with Outrage;
    [DREAM WORLD]

    • Nowadays, Dragonite is defined by his Dream World ability, Multi Scale.
    • That grants him 50% damage reduction on anything while his HP is full. That means he can revenge kill basically anything unboosted and despite having 4x Ice weakness, he can take the first ice attack from almost anything and retaliate.
    • Also grants him the safest Dragon Dance, as it's almost a given he will be able to pull the boost and survive at least the next turn, where he can Roost or simply dish out damage.
  2. lulzer

    lulzer

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2010
    Messages:
    78
    [WORK NOTES]
    • Pretty much done!

    Old Version
    Show Hide

    There IS a Dragonite here!
    [​IMG]
    Serebii Pokédex entry: http://www.serebii.net/pokedex-bw/149.shtml
    [OVERVIEW]

    • Relegated to second plane last gen, where first Garchomp and then Salamence proved to be much more threatening dragons;
    • One of the best Dream World abilities, Multi Scale;
    • Great Wall Breaking and Mixed Attacking status;
    • Quite bulky;
    • Can cover many blind spots in a team, but not all at once;
    • Extremely versatile;
    • OHKO or 2HKO almost any pokemon in the game without needing of setup;
    • 4x Ice-type weakness;
    • Weak to Stealth Rock, also it ruins his Multi Scale, leaving him exposed;
    [SET]
    Mixed Attacking Lead
    move 1: Draco Meteor
    move 2: Extreme Speed
    move 3: Fire Blast
    move 4: Earthquake / Superpower / Gale
    ability: Multi Scale / Inner Focus
    item: Life Orb / Leftovers / Lum Berry
    nature: Rash / Quiet
    EVs: 252 Atk / 252 SpA / 4 Def

    [SET COMMENTS]


    • OHKO or 2HKO most of the metagame's leads;
    • Draco Meteor and special Fire attack covers up a lot of foes;
    • Earthquake or Superpower pick's off where the first attacks fail to cover;
    • Extremespeed grant's the 2HKO in many situations, even when outsped;
    • When running Superpower, Multi Scale can't be used;


    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]



    • Item choice depends on ability choice and main counter focus:
    • -Life Orb + Multi Scale is for faster, frailer leads, mostly suicide leads;
    • -Life Orb + Inner Focus is for Fake Out leads;
    • -Leftovers + Multi Scale is for slower, bulkier leads;
    • -Lum Berry + Multi Scale is for stats leads;

    • Maximum EVs on both attacking status are for optimum killing power;
    • With Quiet nature, run 4 Spe EVs to outspeed Lead Metagross;
    • Gale appears as an option on the last slot to hard counter Machamp;


    [SET]
    Mixed Attacker
    move 1: Draco Meteor
    move 2: Fire Blast / Flamethrower
    move 3: Earthquake / Superpower
    move 4:Roost / Thunderbolt
    ability: Multi Scale / Inner Focus
    item: Life Orb
    nature: Rash
    EVs: 116 Atk / 200 SpA / 192 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    • OHKO or 2HKO almost any OU pokemon without set up;
    • Impecable neutral coverage with three attacks;
    • Last move can make Dragonite more durable or fight bulky waters;
    • Bulky enought to take some beating, specially with Multi Scale;
    • Enormous wall breaking power;
    • Can't use Multi Scale with Superpower;

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    • 116 Atk EVs are for OHKO Blissey and Heatran after Stealth Rock damage with Superpower;
    • Speed EVs to outspeed Tyranitar and 0 EVs neutral base 100 pokemon;
    • When not running Superpower, reduce Atk EVs and put 218 Spd EVs to outspeed neutral 253 EVs Cloyster and speed tie with neutral 176 EVs Kingdra;
    • Rash nature to maximize offensive power, loosing defense the minimum possible;
    • Can use Gale to OHKO Roobushin and Breloom, only problem being its shaky accuracy;

    [SET]
    Support
    move 1: Dragon Tail / Dragon Claw / Flamethrower
    move 2: Heal Bell
    move 3: Thunder Wave / Toxic
    move 4:Roost
    ability: Inner Focus
    item: Leftovers
    nature: Calm / Careful
    Evs: 252 HP / 252 SpD / 4 Def

    [SET COMMENTS]

    • One of the few capable OU clerics;
    • Unfortunately can't run Multi Scale;
    • Dragon Tail is for phazing, Dragon Claw is for STAB and Flamethrower is to kill Steel-types who are immune to Toxic;
    • Thunder Wave is for helping set a sweep, or stop a sweep, and Toxic is for stalling or breaking stall;
    • Roost keeps Dragonite alive for longer and helps Toxic stalling;

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    • EV spread to maximize defensive capacities;
    • Calm or Careful, depending on what attack you are running, Calm with Toxic + Flamethrower or Careful with the other options;

    [SET]
    Bulky DDNite
    move 1: Dragon Dance
    move 2: Dragon Claw / Outrage
    move 3: Earthquake / Fire Punch
    move 4: Roost
    ability: Multi Scale
    item: Leftovers / Life Orb / Lum Berry
    nature: Adamant
    Evs: 252 HP / 40 Atk / 216 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    • Easy to set up because of huge bulk and ability;
    • Dragon Claw is normally used over Outrage due to the ability to change attacks;
    • Earthquake covers up non-floating Steel-types;
    • Roost keeps Dragonite alive for longer, allowing him to keep boosting his Attack and Speed while renewing Multi Scale;
    • Fire Punch appears as a coverage option against bulky Grass-types and floating Steel-types;

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    • EV spread to raise his bulk to a great level and make him outspeed Scarf Chomp after 2 Dragon Dances;
    [SET]
    Offensive DD
    move 1: Dragon Dance
    move 2: Dragon Claw / Outrage
    move 3: Fire Punch / Earthquake
    move 4: Thunder Punch / Brick Break
    ability: Multi Scale
    item: Life Orb / Leftovers / Lum Berry
    nature: Adamant
    EVs: 40 HP / 252 Atk / 216 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    • Forgoes most of the defense and relies only on Multi Scale to set up at least one Dragon Dance, two if the oposing pokemons switches;
    • Dragon Claw is more reliable STAB than Outrage, but the later can be used due to the ridiculous damage;
    • Fire Punch and Earthquake are used to cover Steel-types, Fire Punch is normaly the better option, but Earthquake will hit Heatran, Shanderaa and provides better coverage alongside the main STAB;
    • Last move rounds out coverage, Thunder Punch is for taking care of bulky waters, who gives Dragonite problems and Brick Break takes Dark and Normal-types down, also it is good to pair with EQ to hit Baloon Doryuuzu;
    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    • 216 Spe EVs are needed to outrun ScarfChomp;
    • Dragonite needs more 4 Spe EVs to outspeed Adamant Doryuuzu with 252 Spe Evs on the sand, after two Dragon Dances;
    • Still thinking on where to put those 36 remaining EV, since putting them on Speed is mostly a waste of points;

    [SET]
    Special Attacker
    move 1: Draco Meteor
    move 2: Gale
    move 3: Fire Blast
    move 4: Roost / Thunder
    ability: Multi Scale
    item: Life Orb / Wide Lens / Choice Specs
    nature: Quiet
    EVs: 116 Hp / 252 Spa / 140 SpD

    [SET COMMENTS]

    • Extremely useful on weather based teams, specially Rain Dance ones, due to his capability to counter many of the threats to those teams;
    • Enormous coverage and destruction power with his moves;
    • Backed by rain, Thunder and Gale have 100% accuracy;
    • A Choice Specs can be used when running a 4 special attacks set;
    • Wide Lens appears as an option if the shaky Accuracy is a problem,i.e. not using a Rain Dance team, yet the power loss might be even more troublesome;
    • This set has lots of problems getting past special walls, such as Blissey or Chansey and some problem dealing with Tyranitar;

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    • EV spread made to resist many attacks unleash by common Rain Dance pokemons and OHKO some key ones, like Tyranitar, Hippowdon, Kingdra, Breloom, Gyarados, Abomasnow, Nattorei and Roobushin to name a few while 2HKO max SpD and HP Burungeru with Thunder;
    [SET]
    Choice Band
    move 1: Outrage
    move 2: Fire Punch
    move 3: Earthquake / Brick Break
    move 4: Extreme Speed
    ability: Multi Scale
    item: Choice Band
    nature: Adamant
    EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spe / 4 HP

    [SET COMMENTS]

    • Outrage is a obvious choice in a banded set, due to the massive damage caused;
    • Fire Punch covers the Steel-types that would otherwise wall the set, it's even capable of OHKO Nattorei;
    • Third move depends mostly on preference, EQ hits Shanderaa and Heatran harder than Brick Break, yet, Brick Break hits Levitating foes, such as Sazandora, and OHKOs TTar and Blissey. Also, it will hit Baloon Doryuuzu, who is one of the biggest threats of the metagame, while EQ fails to do so;
    • Extremespeed serves as a almost granted revenge on anything that doesn't resist it;
    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    • EVs for maximum offensive power;
    • Can work quite well as a anti-lead, since it can OHKO many common leads, such as Machamp, Tyranitar, Nattorei and anything frailer, yet, care is needed with Hippodowdon and Swampert;
    • Excelent revenge killer for Garchomp;
    [SET]
    Rain Attacker (Special)
    move 1: Gale
    move 2: Thunder
    move 3: Surf
    move 4: Agility / Dragon Pulse / Roost
    ability: Multi Scale
    item: Life Orb / Leftovers
    nature: Timid / Modest
    EVs: 252 Spa / 252 Spe / 4 Def

    [SET COMMENTS]

    • Ridiculously damaging attack with shaky accuracy, that goes to 100% on rain;
    • Last move depends on the approach, Agility makes him somewhat a Kingdra, Dragon Pulse is for hitting other Dragon-types who otherwise gives them set trouble and Roost is for durability;
    • When using Agility, 216 with Modest nature ensure that DNite will outspeed Scarfchomp;
    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    [SET]
    Rain Attacker [Mixed]
    move 1: Gale
    move 2: Extremespeed / Agility
    move 3: Surf / Thunder
    move 4: Brick Break
    ability: Multi Scale
    item: Life Orb / Leftovers
    nature: Rash
    EVs: 252 Spa / 252 Spe / 4 Atk

    [SET COMMENTS]

    • Once again abuses the pseudo-STAB that rain gives Surf and the accuracy boost to Gale;
    • Extremespeed or Agility depends mainly on what you want, priority or more sweeping potential;
    • The choice between Surf and Thunder is between taking down Skarmory and bulky waters (Thunder) or countering some of the metagame's top threats such as Garchomp, Doryuuzu, Blaziken, Shanderaa and Heatran;
    • Brick Break nails Tyranitar hard if he switches in to end the rain;
    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    • When running Agility, 216 Spe EVs are the magic number, since +2 Neutral DNite outspeeds ScarfChomp at that point;
    [TEAM OPTIONS]

    • Dragonite is extremely weak to Stealth Rock since it will remove Multi Scale, that said, pairing him with some capable Rapid Spin user such as Starmie or Hitmontop is great;
    • Due to enormous versatility can be placed on a great number of teams, yet, it is not to balance the team, just to cover one or two flaws;
    • The Supporter set should be paired with pokemon who doesn't like being statused, such as fellow Dragon-types playing as sweepers;
    • The DD Set should be paired with some other Dragon-type, since it will wear down most of the opposing counters and enable an almost unstoppable sweep;
    • Infernape, Blaziken and Heatran are great partners to Dragonite, due to their extreme resistance to Ice-type attacks and the fact that they can work around Steel-types really fast;
    [SPECIAL MENTIONS]

    • Magic Mirror Espeon: This one guy grants Dragonite's safety when dealing with entry hazards, yet, he does too little other than that and can become setup fodder for quite a lot of stuff. If you find it worth the risk to make your Dragonite invincible in the turn he touches the arena than Espeon is a MUST;
    • Hitmontop: After some testing I found Hitmontop one of the best partners for Dragonite, getting rid of entry hazards while being able to 2HKO Doryuuzu and Terakion with a combination of Fake Out and Mach Punch, boosted by Technitian;
    [COUNTERS]

    • Any pokemon who can survive Dragonite's first blow and attack him twice with a Ice or Stone attack;
    • Stealth Rock leads;
    • Hippowdon, Tyranitar and Abomasnow are great counters to some extent, in that Dragonite's efficiency will drop drastically without Multi Scale protection;
    • Weavile and Mamoswine appears as hard counters, due to STAB ice priority and HUGE Attack stat;
    [DREAM WORLD]

    • Nowadays, Dragonite is defined by his Dream World ability, Multi Scale.
    • That grants him 50% damage reduction on anything while his HP is full. That means he can revenge kill basically anything unboosted and despite having 4x Ice weakness, he can take the first ice attack from almost anything and retaliate.
    • Also grants him the safest Dragon Dance, as it's almost a given he will be able to pull the boost and survive at least the next turn, where he can Roost or simply dish out damage.

    [OTHER STUFF]

    [SET]
    Dragon Slayer
    move 1: Outrage
    move 2: Draco Meteor
    move 3: Fire Blast
    move 4: Thunderbolt / Thunder
    ability: Multi Scale
    item: Choice Scarf
    nature: Naive
    EVs: 252 HP / 28 Def / 48 SpA / 180 SpD

    [SET COMMENTS]

    • With the correct move, can OHKO any Dragon-type;
    • Due to Multi Scale, survives almost any Dragon-type attack, outspeeding almost all the threats and OHKOing them, it will only fail completely against Ononokusu after a Dragon Dance, due to Mold Breaker;
    • Requires totally clean field to work, entry hazards or bad weather will ruin the set;
    • Fire Blast and Thunderbolt / Thunder appear as coverage moves if you predict a switch;

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    • EV spread made uniquely to counter almost all the Dragon-types of the OU enviroment, while also able to take at least one non-STAB ice move;
    • The damage calcs where done in Psypoke's calculator, not that sure if it's right.
  3. ForteAnly

    ForteAnly

    Joined:
    May 26, 2009
    Messages:
    29
    Hello lulzer,

    The problems that caught my attention right away is in your Mixed Attacker Set and Support Set. In the mixed attacker set you have Superpower for both Multi-Scale and Inner Focus the problem with that is Superpower is a Gen IV only move tutor move that is not compatible with Multi-Scale. On your Support Set Dragonite has Heal Bell with Multi-scale much like Superpower they are not compatible with Multi-scale since Heal Bell is a move that cannot be bred on to Dratini's.
  4. lulzer

    lulzer

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2010
    Messages:
    78
    Thanks for the help buddy, going to change that right now!
  5. ForteAnly

    ForteAnly

    Joined:
    May 26, 2009
    Messages:
    29
    Not a problem. One more thing lulzer on your set comments for the DDNite you mention to only run this set if you are using a Salamence to remove it's counters for sweeping. I don't think a Salamence is mandatory to run that set. I think if you are running a Bulky DDNite a Espeon with Magic Mirror or a rapid spinner is required more than a Salamence imo. Since Espeon will help reflect entry hazards that would otherwise break Multi-scale upon entry.
  6. lulzer

    lulzer

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2010
    Messages:
    78
    I'll comment on Espeon on some closing thoughts, but the thing is, running a DD set on DNite is basically running a tuned down Salamence. Of course he can come on much more stuff, but once the DD is pulled off, Salamence is way stronger. But thanks for the concern!
    Keep the feedback coming in guys!
  7. lulzer

    lulzer

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2010
    Messages:
    78
    Bamp for feedback please!
  8. Ahhhhhh......Clefable.

    Ahhhhhh......Clefable.

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2010
    Messages:
    346
    Are you going to mention a Choice Specs set? I realize that he is outclassed by some others of his Dragon brethren, but the surprise-factor could work in Dragonite's favor, and it certainly has the special movepool to put it to great use.

    Dragonite also would make a great addition on a Rain Dance set, gaining boosts to Thunder and Gale, while resisting many of the types Rain Dance teams are weak to.
  9. Aerodactyl Legend

    Aerodactyl Legend

    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2008
    Messages:
    1,141
    True, but he doesn't have the Speed for it. Like the previous generation, I think no Choice Specs set should not be in the analysis. An OC mention, sure. It is still early in the B/W game, but I feel the set will be outclassed by many other choices.

    The rejected set from last Gen.
  10. lulzer

    lulzer

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2010
    Messages:
    78
    Choice Specs on him seems a bit silly since he can already OHKO many pokes with only a few investments in SpA. Also, his power comes greatly from attack combinations, such as Draco Meteor + Extremespeed on the lead possition. Taking combinations out of him will more damage than help at least in my way of seeing stuff.

    The Rain Dance idea is a good one, due to Gale he can wipe the floor with Grass-types and those pesky Roobushin or Breelom all day long. Good idea probably adding!

    More feedback please?
  11. Ahhhhhh......Clefable.

    Ahhhhhh......Clefable.

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2010
    Messages:
    346
    Yeah, I know a Specs set on Dragonite would be a bit gimmicky, but I do think it deserves at least an OC mention because he has the movepool and stats (besides speed) to pull it off.

    And on a Rain Dance set, I would use the following Dragonite:

    [SET]
    Rain-Dance Attacker
    move 1: Outrage / Dragon Claw / Dragon Pulse
    move 2: Earthquake
    move 3: Gale
    move 4: Thunder
    ability: Multi Scale
    item: Life Orb / Leftovers
    nature: Rash
    EVs: 252 Atk / 252 SpA / 4 Def

    I'm not one-hundred percent confident on the nature or EV's, because that isn't my strong point, so feel free to change it. It should be mentioned that this set doesn't stand out at all on its own without Rain Dance, so Politoed and RD-users an absolute-must.

    This set nails Electric, Grass, and Fighting types particularly hard, which is a very useful task on a Rain Dance team.

    Of course, if you don't need all the coverage provided by these moves, then one can be dropped for a support option like Thunder Wave; however, the biggest charm of Dragonite in the rain is being able to take down the Pokemon who usually counter your rain.
  12. Aerodactyl Legend

    Aerodactyl Legend

    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2008
    Messages:
    1,141
    Change the lead set name to something like "Mixed Attacking Lead." Anti-Lead sets use specific moves (flinching, sleep, Taunt, priority...) to try to always come on top against the opposing lead and prevent them from doing their own job.
  13. Ahhhhhh......Clefable.

    Ahhhhhh......Clefable.

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2010
    Messages:
    346
    I hightlighted a spelling error for you. It's so great to have Rain Dance-Dragonite acknowledged!

    Should Earthquake get slotted as an option with Brick Break, to help cover Electric types?
  14. lulzer

    lulzer

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    Jul 2, 2010
    Messages:
    78
    I'll just bump this in order to get some feedback!
  15. Adrialberto

    Adrialberto

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    May 24, 2009
    Messages:
    39
    The DD set should have 216 EVs in Speed to outspeed Scarfchomp after 2 DDs. Plus, I think Fire Punch should be slashed with EQ for the change of coverage it provides, allowing Dragonite to hit every Pokemon except for Heatran for at least neutral damage.
  16. Gabe

    Gabe

    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2010
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    Why the hell does the DD set still have the same EV spread from last gen if now he can get off one for sure with Multiscale?


    Also, Quiet in the Rain? Dragonite can't do a set like this?:

    Dragonite@ Chesto Berry/Life Orb
    Modest/Timid
    Multiscale
    252 SpA/140 Spe/116 Hp
    -Gale
    -Surf
    -Rest/Draco Meteor/Dragon Pulse/Thunder
    -Agility
  17. GameMaster0000

    GameMaster0000

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    180
    Why use rest? He has better option to recover like roost.
  18. Arcticblast

    Arcticblast LOL STAFF FAG
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    Roost is illegal with Multi Scale.
  19. Omicron

    Omicron
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    No, it isn't. Dragonite learns Roost by level up in Gen V thus it is legal.
  20. PooF

    PooF

    Joined:
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    I think EVs on Weather Support are supposed to be like this: 116 Hp / 252 SpA / 140 SpD.
  21. KurashiDragon

    KurashiDragon

    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2008
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    I don't really even know why I'm posting here but I luv dragonite and I'd luv to help in anyway I could.

    252 SpA on the weather set as stated by the user above me.

    I feel Extremespeed is a viable option for the 4th move on the weather set. You already have nearly perfect nutreal coverage with Thunder, Gale, and Draco Meteor (I believe it's only resisted by Doryuzuu and Magnezone) and it's competing against Kingdra for that dragon spot on RD teams. +2 priority is a major niche over its dragon cousin.

    Weavile and Mamoswine are not hard counters for Dragonite just like they arent for Salamence. The are great checks but cannot continously switch into dragonite without getting smacked in the face by a fire blast.

    At the same time I feel suicune is a good counter for Dragonite. It can take a +2 Dragon Claw and ko with Ice Beam.

    Switch the abilities around on the mixed attacker set. It'll make alot of people confused if you leave it like that. (As Multi Scale is illegal with Superpower.) Do the same with the lead set.

    In the future, when you complete this analysis, you should probably mention that it's an even greater priority to get stealth rock off the field if your running multi scale.
  22. lulzer

    lulzer

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2010
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    I couldn't use the internet yesterday, but let's comment on all that great feedback:

    Firstly, that weather support is not meant to work ONLY with rain, I made some modifications and use it on a sandstorm team. He is one of my MvPs, covering Nattorei, Roobushin, Breloom, Machamp, Kingdra and Ludicolo (on rain) Chomp (on sand) if Multi Scale is still active and also some other stuff, but those are the most common ones; Also... yeah it's 252 SpA. Gonna update the set;

    Gabe, I understand what you did there, but that would only work on rain I think, giving competition to Kingdra, a thing that shouldn't happen, since Kingdra is the king of the rain...(terrible pun), also... speed is not a need on a non DD set, think of him as a fluffy and orange TTar;

    The rest of the feedback doesn't need explanation and will be updated, THANKS A LOT!
  23. PlainN

    PlainN

    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2010
    Messages:
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    Hey lulzer, excellent analysis. I was just wondering if you considered adding in a few more niche sets:

    1. Offensive DD
    Adamant, Leftovers
    252 Atk, 252 Spe, 4 hp
    - Outrage
    - Earthquake
    - Fire Punch
    - Dragon Dance

    Basically come in, DD with multi-scale, then rampage through the other team until they take you down. If they switch on the DD, then you can probably kill the scarfed revenger as well with either 2 DDs (will make you faster than scarfed Garchomp) or by surviving the first hit. Not outclassed due to the pretty much guaranteed one or two DD unlike Gyarados or Salamence.

    2. Choice Band
    Adamant, Choice Band
    252 Atk, 252 Spe, 4 hp
    - Outrage
    - Earthquake
    - Fire Punch
    - Extremespeed

    I'm currently using this guy in the Lead position concurrently with a physically defensive Magic Mirror Espeon and it works wonders. If you think they will set hazards, switch, otherwise, hit hard. This set acts a lot like an anti-anti-lead. Outrage will OHKO standard Lead Machamp (you'll be faster); EQ will either OHKO TTar if he invested in speed (you'll survive the rock slide since sand storm activates after the first turn) or 2KO defensive variants. Fire Punch will OHKO Gene leads. In fact, its so powerful that if you outrage on the first turn as they switch to their steel type, the steel type will perish unless they can OHKO you (highly unlikely). This is not outclassed by other Choice Banders due to multi-scale guaranteeing at least one hit although this set diminishes in usefulness in sand or with entry hazards. It's also an excellent revenge lure: Come in at max HP on something slower, Outrage to take them out, then kill the scarfed revenger (I'm thinking Garchomp again) after you take a hit.

    If you manage to keep him alive, late game, he acts as an excellent revenge killer and a suicide Outrager.

    EDIT: I want to point out that Brick Break can be used over EQ on the CB set. I'm having a lot of fun surprising lead T-Tars with it and it works well for the random Blissey/Chansey switch in. Secondly, it isn't too much inferior to EQ in terms of type coverage since you still hit Heatran, Dory, and Tekron for SE damage; the only thing you miss out on is the forced outrage on fire types although most are frail enough to be 2KOed by ESpeed. Finally, as a CE set, you don't want to be using a move that many pokemon have an immunity to. Yes Brick Break cannot hit Shandera and this fact alone might show the folly of Brick Break, but with EQ, you can't hit anything with balloon or any flying type which gives the opponent a free turn essentially.
  24. Megan_Fox

    Megan_Fox

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2009
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    I also think a CB set should be added.

    As for the weather support set, I've never seen it used and does Dragonite actually need a weather support set? any other set seems like it could fit on a Raindance team. id probably say its not worth it but if it is, Id put Fireblast as the option over gale as Nattori is the bane of raindance teams.
  25. lulzer

    lulzer

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2010
    Messages:
    78
    Ok, updated many stuff including:
    - Added CB set;
    - Changed the Weather set (was confusing) name to Special Attacker
    - Inverted Inner Focus and Multi Scale on the first sets so it's easier to understand when to use each one;
    - Waiting for more feedback;

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