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Dragonite (Substitute + Dragon Dance)

Discussion in 'Uploaded Analyses' started by AccidentalGreed, Nov 3, 2011.

  1. AccidentalGreed

    AccidentalGreed HOMERUN, CABRONES
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    It's not anymore.

    This has been mentioned multiple times around the DST threads, and has received surprisingly good criticism ever since it was passed around. Yeah, I know. Being a mono-attacker sucks, but I got around with Togekiss and Latias. IMO, it deserves its own spot on the analysis.

    Status: Copyediting

    QC Approvals (3/3): (PK Gaming) (Wilson46) (Delta2777)

    GP Approvals (2/2): (Calm Pokemaster) (New World Order)
    -----------------------------------------------------------------------
    [​IMG]
    Gotta make my mind up, which set should I taaaaake

    [SET]
    name: Substitute + Dragon Dance
    move 1: Substitute
    move 2: Dragon Dance
    move 3: Dragon Claw
    move 4: Roost
    item: Leftovers
    ability: Multiscale
    nature: Careful
    evs: 252 HP / 80 Def / 16 SpD / 160 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Depending on the item or coverage moves being run on Dragonite, its standard Dragon Dance sets are often thwarted by the appropriate counters, many of which are unfortunately common in the metagame. For example, if Dragonite holds Leftovers without some form of protection (such as Safeguard or Substitute), it's prone to status, while without it, Multiscale is negated by sandstorm and hail. This set, however, aims to overcome the dragon's usual issues by using Substitute in place of a secondary coverage move, enabling Dragonite to block status, scout for checks, and set up more easily than ever. Using Substitute also abolishes the pressure of choosing the appropriate item. Dragonite is therefore permitted to use Leftovers, Roost, and Dragon Claw freely, making it an extremely self-sufficient stallbreaker and attacker when its very few counters are crippled or eliminated.</p>

    <p>The primary objective of this set is to set up and outstall the opposing team by using Dragon Dance, Roost, and Substitute, attacking once Dragonite accumulates enough boosts or whenever necessary. Dragon Dance's Speed boost, in conjunction with Substitute, allows Dragonite to outrun and set up on potential status users. This is made even better when Roost comes into play, activating Multiscale and minimizing the damage dealt by common status users; this gives Dragonite even more opportunities to set up and sweep. Although it may seem ineffective to use a single attack, Dragon Claw grants great mono-attacking coverage, and is only resisted by Steel-types. Even then, most Steel-types can be overcome by proper setup, eliminating the need to use Earthquake or Fire Punch.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>Dragonite thrives on defensive investment due to its ability to set up with Substitute and Roost. The given EV spread is a specialized formula; the defensive investment enables Dragonite's Substitutes to survive Iron Head from Jirachi with 0 Atk EVs. With the given Speed EVs, Dragonite outspeeds positive-natured base 110s after a boost. Additionally, Attack investment is not necessary since Dragonite can set up multiple boosts. With a Careful nature, Dragonite can set up with ease on random special attacks, though other natures are optimal if Dragonite needs more physical bulk (Impish) or wishes to outspeed its neutral-natured maximum Speed counterpart (Jolly). Another EV spread to consider is 252 HP / 56 SpD / 200 Spe, which grants Dragonite more special bulk in addition to the ability to outrun positive-natured base 115s after one boost. This in turn makes Dragonite an easier target for walls with physical attacks, so keep in mind the tradeoffs of each spread.</p>

    <p>Although this set is more self-sufficient than other similar sets, it still needs the correct support to bypass counters and function more easily. As far as dedicated counters are concerned, Skarmory is a huge issue due to its high Defense, resistance to Dragon Claw, and access to Whirlwind to phaze Dragonite out. Other Steel-types and physical walls can be bypassed with the correct setup sequence, though there are some Pokemon that can overcome Dragonite through other means, such as Perish Song users, Ice Punch Metagross, or Unaware Quagsire. Generally speaking, before sending Dragonite out to sweep, ensure that defensive threats such as the aforementioned ones are eliminated. Magnezone is notable for its ability to trap and eliminate Steel-types, though Skarmory with Shed Shell may prove to be problematic. Rather than going with the conventional trap-and-kill route, you may simply employ Pokemon that can lure in or punch through these counters, prime examples including Choice Band Terrakion and Magic Bounce Espeon with Hidden Power Fire.</p>

    <p>Rapid Spin support is not as necessary because of Substitute and Roost, but it's still appreciated to ensure Multiscale is activated from the start. An offensive Starmie is notable above all others due to its ability to use Rapid Spin, absorb status with Natural Cure, and break down physical walls that Dragonite may encounter. Dragonite, in turn, can set up on threats that wall Starmie, including but not limited to Gastrodon, Jellicent, Blissey, and Rotom-W. Forretress and Tentacruel are also good choices because of their stellar defenses, great typing, and access to entry hazards. Speaking of which, residual damage is instrumental in Dragonite's role; it will find often itself in situations where it will have to stall out certain foes before doing anything else, which applies mostly to walls such as Quagsire and Hippowdon. These foes are easily stalled out with Toxic Spikes support, which Forretress and Tentacruel can easily set up.</p>
  2. RaikouLover

    RaikouLover

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    Use this EV spread:

    252 HP / 56 SpD / 200 Spe, Careful

    Drag doesn't need attack with this, its primary objective is to outstall / checkmate teams. It sweeps almost as an after thought. Its a "you wont kill me before I kill you set." 56 Special Defense is a jump point, 200 Spe outspeeds Starmie and base 115s, and the rare Scarftar after a Dragon Dance. HP is obvious.

    Mention this: BURN BURN BURN. If you burn Forretress, its Gyro balls won't break your Subs and its instant checkmate. Burn Skarmory too. They wont beat you before you beat them. You can 6-0 a stall team easily with the set, or 5-0 them if you Pursuit Perish Song Celebi.
  3. Mynism

    Mynism

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    Adding a few Def evs is also a must, allowing the subs to survive Jirachi's Iron Head
  4. -Tsunami-

    -Tsunami- ¬°YA HA!
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    I suggest you use this EV Spread: 252 HP / 80 Def / 16 SDef / 160 Spd
    This is the spread that Stone_Cold used on his rmt; it allows Dragonite's substo survive Jirachi's Iron Head like Mynism stated, outspeed all of the Pokemon that your current spread does, and can take special attacks much better. Attack investment isn't necessary because this Dragonite can boost multiple times easily.
  5. AccidentalGreed

    AccidentalGreed HOMERUN, CABRONES
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    I'll make Raikoulover's spread the main one simply for the fact that I can use Burn support, and it's overall more specially bulky. I mentioned burn support, stalling, and the other spread in the AC. More input on the EV spreads would be preferred over other comments.
  6. PK Gaming

    PK Gaming Pursuing My True Self
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    Actually, Stone_Cold's spread a lot better. Those 40 extra speed evs really don't do much and Dragonite needs to defensive EVs so that it can set up on specially defensive rachi iron heads.

    QC APPROVED (1/3)
  7. AccidentalGreed

    AccidentalGreed HOMERUN, CABRONES
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    Sure. Thanks for the check, but since Dragonite is boosting slowly, should it even use an Adamant nature on that set? Correct me if somebody will.

    EDIT: I found out that if I use a Jolly nature with Stone_Cold's spread, it's exactly as fast as an Adamant maximum Speed Dragonite. Thoughts?
  8. wilson46

    wilson46
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    With a Jolly nature, some notable pokemon it will outspeed are max speed Politoed, standard Gliscor, and many pokemon around the 245 mark (Jirachi, Celebi). However, with a DD boost you outspeed them anyway and it isn't too hard to pick up one. Maybe Jolly can get a mention in AC, idk.

    But the set itself is good, so QC APPROVED (2/3)
  9. AccidentalGreed

    AccidentalGreed HOMERUN, CABRONES
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    Thanks, Wilson.

    I don't like what the Adamant nature does here, so I'll make the Careful nature the main nature so Dragonite is able to sponge Ice Beam and other random Special Attacks as well.
  10. uraga

    uraga Walking the streets with you in your worn-out jeans
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    PLZ let it outspeed scarf landorus at +2 because that can be a really annoying (BAN ME PLEASE) it only needs a few additional speed EVs on stone's spread or maybe a jolly one would be more efficient if bumping the speed up to that
  11. Blue_Star

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    finally someone's posting this set. @uraga, i don't think you need to outspeed scarf landorus at +2, since it's going to do like 40% to you with hp ice...
  12. uraga

    uraga Walking the streets with you in your worn-out jeans
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    nah hp ice does 52.8% - 63.2% with no invest and stone edge in sand does 68.9% - 81.3%, so it's a decently viable revenge killer that dnite is going to lose to if you somehow misplay or are forced to kill something with only 2 DDs down. maybe just mention it in OO or something but i know i've lost matches because of landorus outpacing
  13. AccidentalGreed

    AccidentalGreed HOMERUN, CABRONES
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    Yeah, Jolly nature's in AC. Again, Careful nature's only there because Dragonite has to sponge random Special Attacks, but Jolly achieves the same speed that Adamant maximum Speed Dragonite reaches, which is a plus in some situations (like with Landorus)
  14. MasterSwordsmanGallade

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    I'm amazed that SubDD Dragonite is not on site.

    I think that Infernape and Conkeldurr make fine teammates to SubDD Dragonite for their ability to scare out Ferrothorn, Skarmory and other pesky steels. Otherwise this thing should be on site ^^.
  15. RaikouLover

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    Actually, I think we are forgetting about 2 important mons - Starmie (Life Orb Ice Beam), and SpecsTornadus (it outspeeds you by a point). I think those two are more important than Jirachi because you can just burn it, lol. Starmie really is the big deal I don't want to switch out of it do you?? I used the slower spread first and lost a match because I couldn't outspeed starmie and kill it...
  16. Mynism

    Mynism

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    You mean Heatran right ? About the stats, 244 speed is good to reach (192 evs +0) to outspeed most non-scarfed mons and ScarfTar at +1. The higher you want to reach would only be 249 (set-up a sub against standard SDef Jirachi and outspeeds Scarfed Landorus at +2). I also don't see the point in using Jolly nature. This Dragonite set needs defensives evs and since his def/sdef stats are bigger than his speed one, that would be a waste of evs and outspeeding ScarfToed is kinda useless on such a defensive set.
  17. Delta 2777

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    QC Approved (3/3)
  18. AccidentalGreed

    AccidentalGreed HOMERUN, CABRONES
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    Have at ye, GP checkers.
  19. New World Order

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    GP Approved (1/2)

    [​IMG]
  20. AccidentalGreed

    AccidentalGreed HOMERUN, CABRONES
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    Indeed.

    One more to go, and this is up.
  21. Calm Pokemaster

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    [SET]
    name: Substitute + Dragon Dance
    move 1: Substitute
    move 2: Dragon Dance
    move 3: Dragon Claw
    move 4: Roost
    item: Leftovers
    ability: Multiscale
    nature: Careful
    evs: 252 HP / 80 Def / 16 SpD / 160 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Depending on the item or coverage moves being run on Dragonite, its standard Dragon Dance sets are often thwarted by the appropriate counters, many of which are unfortunately common in the metagame. For example, if Dragonite holds Leftovers without some form of protection (such as Safeguard or Substitute), it's prone to status, while without it, Multiscale is negated by sandstorm and hail. This set, however, aims to overcome the dragon's usual issues by using Substitute in place of a secondary coverage move, enabling Dragonite to block status, scout for checks, and set up more easily than ever. Using Substitute also abolishes the pressure of choosing the appropriate item. Dragonite is therefore permitted to use Leftovers, Roost, and Dragon Claw freely, making it an extremely self-sufficient stallbreaker and attacker when its very few counters are crippled or eliminated.</p>

    <p>The primary objective of this set is to set up and outstall the opposing team by using Dragon Dance, Roost, and Substitute, attacking once Dragonite accumulates enough boosts or whenever necessary. Dragon Dance's Speed boost, in conjunction with Substitute, allows Dragonite to outrun and set up on potential status users. This is made even better when Roost comes into play, activating Multiscale and taking minimal minimizing the damage from dealt by common status users; this gives giving Dragonite even more opportunities to set up and sweep. Although it may seem ineffective to use a single attack, Dragon Claw grants great mono-attacking coverage, and is only resisted by Steel-types. Even then, most Steel-types can be overcome by proper setup, eliminating the need to use Earthquake or Fire Punch.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>Dragonite thrives on defensive investment due to its ability to set up with Substitute and Roost. The given EV spread is a specialized formula; the defensive investment enables Dragonite's Substitutes to survive Iron Head from Jirachi with 0 Atk EVs. With the given Speed EVs, Dragonite outspeeds positive-natured base 110s after a boost. Additionally, Attack investment is not necessary since Dragonite can set up multiple boosts. With a Careful nature, Dragonite can set up with ease on random special attacks, though other natures are optimal if Dragonite requires needs more physical bulk (Impish) or wishes to outspeed its neutral-natured maximum Speed counterpart (Jolly). Another EV spread to consider is 252 HP / 56 SpD / 200 Spe, which grants Dragonite more special bulk in addition to the ability to outrun positive-natured base 115s after one boost. This, in turn, makes Dragonite an easier target for walls with physical attacks, so keep in mind the tradeoffs of each spread.</p>

    <p>Although this set is more self-sufficient than other similar sets, it still needs the correct support to bypass counters and function more easily. As far as dedicated counters are concerned, Skarmory is a huge issue due to its high Defense, resistance to Dragon Claw, and access to Whirlwind to phaze Dragonite out. Other Steel-types and physical walls can be bypassed with the correct setup sequence, though there are some Pokemon that can overcome Dragonite through other means, such as Perish Song users, Ice Punch Metagross, or Unaware Quagsire. Generally speaking, before sending Dragonite out to sweep, ensure that defensive threats, such as the aforementioned ones, are eliminated. Magnezone is notable for its ability to trap and eliminate Steel-types, though Skarmory with Shed Shell may prove to be problematic. Rather than go with the conventional trap-and-kill route, you may simply employ Pokemon that can lure in or punch through these counters, prime examples including Choice Band Terrakion and Magic Bounce Espeon with Hidden Power Fire.</p>

    <p>Rapid Spin support is not as necessary because of Substitute and Roost, but it's still appreciated to ensure Multiscale is activated from the start. An offensive Starmie is notable above all others due to its ability to use Rapid Spin, absorb status with Natural Cure, and break down physical walls that Dragonite may encounter. Dragonite, in turn, can set up on threats that wall Starmie, including but not limited to Gastrodon, Jellicent, Blissey, and Rotom-W. Forretress and Tentacruel are also a good choices because of their stellar defenses, great typing, and access to entry hazards. Speaking of which, residual damage is instrumental in Dragonite's role; it will find often itself in situations where it will have to stall out certain foes before doing anything else, which applies mostly to walls such as Quagsire and Hippowdon. These foes are easily stalled out with Toxic Spikes support, which Forretress and Tentacruel can easily set up.</p>


    Dragonite is a boss.

    [​IMG]

    GP 2 / 2
  22. AccidentalGreed

    AccidentalGreed HOMERUN, CABRONES
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    Efficiently...executed. On an iPod Touch.
  23. Oglemi

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