1. New to the forums? Check out our Mentorship Program!
    Our mentors will answer your questions and help you become a part of the community!
  2. Welcome to Smogon Forums! Please take a minute to read the rules.

Dragonite (Tank)

Discussion in 'Uploaded Analyses' started by BTzz, Dec 20, 2011.

  1. BTzz

    BTzz spams overhand rights
    is a Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    May 22, 2011
    Messages:
    689
    [SET]
    name: Tank
    move 1: Draco Meteor
    move 2: Fire Blast / Flamethrower
    move 3: Thunder Wave
    move 4: Roost
    item: Life Orb / Leftovers
    ability: Multiscale
    nature: Modest
    evs: 248 HP / 248 SpA / 12 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>This Dragonite can take on a variety of roles on the team, including paralysis spreader, sweeper, lure, and even all-around wall. Thunder Wave allows Dragonite to support not just slower teammates, but itself as well, because being able to outspeed most paralyzed foes means it can use Roost, possibly reactivating Multiscale, allowing it to survive an otherwise fatal hit. With Thunder Wave slowing opponents down, Dragonite can now invest all its EVs in bulk and power, making it an excellent tank. This set can also make use of Thunder Wave to become a self-sufficient sweeper. Similarly to Tinkerbell Celebi, Dragonite should aim to spread paralysis early-game and fire off strong attacks later. While Dragonite's base 100 Special Attack doesn't seem like much, it can still hit a majority of the metagame hard thanks to its powerful attacks in Draco Meteor and Fire Blast.</p>

    <p>Due to the threat of the omnipresent Dragon Dance and Choice Band variants of Dragonite, this set can also act as an effective lure, dealing heavy damage to physical walls such as Slowbro, Gliscor, and Skarmory expecting an Outrage, paving the way for physical sweepers, such as Terrakion and Scizor. Luring in physical walls is something rain variants of Dragonite cannot do, as special attacks such as Hurricane and Thunder will be expected. If Dragonite is using Leftovers and Thunder Wave happens to be revealed first, it can also effectively feign the parashuffler set and hit foes surprisingly hard, as parashuffler Dragonite does not typically invest in attacking stats. Draco Meteor is Dragonite's strongest attack, and thanks to the STAB boost it receives, only a handful of non-Steel-types are able to safely switch into it. Fire Blast provides excellent coverage alongside Draco Meteor; the combination of attacks is only resisted by Heatran. Flamethrower is a viable alternative to Fire Blast, but the drop in power is noticeable. However, if given sun support, Flamethrower is generally the better option, as with the sun boost, Flamethrower gets all the KOs Fire Blast would, in addition to perfect accuracy.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>To get a sense of this Dragonite's effectiveness as a lure, here are some damage calculations against its common switch-ins.</p>

    <ul class="damage_calculations">
    <li>Life Orb Draco Meteor vs 252/0 Gliscor 97% - 114%</li>
    <li>Life Orb Draco Meteor vs 252/0 Slowbro 82% - 97%/li>
    <li>Life Orb Draco Meteor vs 252/0 Hippowdon 84% - 100%</li>
    <li>Life Orb Draco Meteor vs 252/0 Quagsire 97% - 115%<li>
    <li>Life Orb Fire Blast vs 252/0 Cloyster 95% - 112%</li>
    <li>Life Orb Fire Blast vs 252/252+ Skarmory 83% - 99%</li>
    <li>Life Orb Fire Blast vs 252/216+ Ferrothorn 118% - 139%</li>
    <li>Life Orb Fire Blast vs 252/92+ Bronzong 68% - 80%</li>
    </ul>

    <p>Life Orb is the item of choice to obtain the damage above. Leftovers is an option to increase Dragonite's survivability, but without Life Orb, Dragonite misses out on a significant amount of OHKOs and 2HKOs, and becomes a less effectivelure. However, if this Dragonite is used on a sandstorm or hail team, Leftovers will be necessary to mitigate the residual damage. The EV spread enables Dragonite to outspeed uninvested Gyarados. It also gives Dragonite an odd amount of HP, guaranteeing that it can switch in on Stealth Rock four times as opposed to three without fainting. The rest are put into Special Attack, and a Modest nature is used so that Dragonite can hit as hard as possible.</p>

    <p>If the Special Attack drops from Draco Meteor become an issue, Dragon Pulse can take its place. Dragon Pulse allows Dragonite to stay in longer, thus alleviating its need to switch into Stealth Rock. However, the drop in power is noticeable, and Dragonite loses out on a number of surprising KOs. Dragonite has access to some useful support options, such as Heal Bell and Light Screen, but they have trouble finding room on the set. Additionally, Heal Bell is incompatible with Multiscale, and giving up Multiscale is not recommended. Draco Plate or Flame Plate can be used to power up one of Dragonite's attacks while maintaining Multiscale, but Dragonite is usually better off boosting both attacks with Life Orb or healing with Leftovers.</p>

    <p>This set has severe difficultly breaking through Heatran and Blissey, who can poison and stall out Dragonite. Thanks to the boost in Special Defense it receives from the sand, Tyranitar can also wall Dragonite, break its Multiscale with sandstorm residual damage, and threaten Dragonite with Rock-type STAB. Tyranitar would also gladly take a Thunder Wave as opposed to being crippled by a burn. Terrakion makes an excellent partner as it and Dragonite share decent type synergy, and it can scare off or set up on all three of the aforementioned threats. Dragonite can also eliminate some of Terrakion's checks while providing paralysis support for it. Drought Ninetales is also a fine partner to consider. Ninetales eliminates residual damage caused by opposing hail and sandstorm while boosting Dragonite's Fire-type attack. Dragonite must be cautious of opposing Ground-types as they can switch into Thunder Wave. Two Ground-types in particular that give Dragonite problems are Gastrodon and Landorus, who can both retaliate with 4x super effective Ice-type attacks. However, Landorus can't take a hit from Dragoniteand Gastrodon will fall to two consecutive Draco Meteors if it takes a little prior damage.</p>

    <p>As Dragonite is weak to Stealth Rock, Rapid Spin support is obviously appreciated, especially for Life Orb variants, which can be worn down quickly. Based on the damage calculations above, entry hazards of your own can help Dragonite net more KOs. Forretress can provide both and its Fire weakness may grant Dragonite more opportunities to switch in. Jirachi makes an excellent partner to this set. The two resist all of each others weaknesses and Jirachi can provide much appreciated Wish support. Cleric support can prove useful for healing Dragonite of status, but is not a necessity as Dragonite is immune to Toxic Spikes. Furthermore, the only Pokemon in OU that can safely status Dragonite without being KOed by Draco Meteor or Fire Blast are Blissey, Heatran, and specially defensive Jellicent.</p>
  2. Techniloom

    Techniloom

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2011
    Messages:
    106
    Why would you have Life Orb on a tank or a Pokemon with Multiscale let alone both. Make the main Items Plates and Leftovers because you can still OHKO Gliscor and Slowbro with Draco meteor, Draco Plate and Stealth Rocks.
  3. Pocket

    Pocket Apo, the astronaut's best friend >:3
    is a Site Staff Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2004
    Messages:
    8,580
    I saw your set in Creative Moveset thread, and this set is really interesting. 230 is a weird speed threshold, though, since other than Scizor, there aren't many mons who are at 229, and less than 10% of the Scizors used go max Speed (according to the usage statistics). I'd probably leave its Speed at minimum, since there's a huge vacuum in Speed tiers between 193 - 232. If you want to have useful Speed, you'd probably want to bump its Speed up to 233 to be faster than the standard Magnezone set, but otherwise don't bother putting EVs in Speed. This way, Dragonite can truly invest in its bulk.

    I'd also give a special mention to Gastrodon as a counter to this set. It's one of the few T-Wave immune Pokemon that you cannot dispatch with a LO Draco Meteor.
  4. BurningMan

    BurningMan fueled by beer

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2009
    Messages:
    1,303
    Outspeeding Scizor is entierly useless, because it will always use Bullet Punch against DNite. i would either maximise the bulk or aim to outspeed SDef Jirachi/Gliscor/ max Speed Magnezone in wich case you need 196 Spe EVs, however i agree with Pocket that maximizing the bulk is propably the way to go since min speed Dragonite has enough speed to outspeed almost everything after its paralysed.

    You could possibly give Draco Plate a mention, but i think Life Orb will overall be the best choice beefing up dragonites rather mediocre SpA and Multiscale isn't that important for this set as it is for others.

    List TTar as a counter because Sand Stream will always destroy Multiscale and bulkier version can take everything Dragonite can throw at him and destroy it with Ice Beam/Stone Edge.
  5. RaikouLover

    RaikouLover

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2006
    Messages:
    2,430
    Am I missing something? Doesnt Gastrodon get trucked by Draco Meteor???
  6. BTzz

    BTzz spams overhand rights
    is a Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    May 22, 2011
    Messages:
    689
    252SpAtk Life Orb Dragonite (+SAtk) Draco Meteor vs 252HP/252SpDef Leftovers Gastrodon (+SpDef): 52% - 61%

    252SpAtk Life Orb -2 Dragonite (+SAtk) Draco Meteor vs 252HP/252SpDef Leftovers Gastrodon (+SpDef): 26% - 30%

    Gastrodon is not a bad switch-in, but Dragonite can still win with Spikes.
  7. PK Gaming

    PK Gaming Pursuing My True Self
    is a Site Staff Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Past SPL Winner

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2009
    Messages:
    5,153
    Cool set. Have you thought about coming up with a unique name for this set? Nothing silly or childish of course, but something along same lines as "Tinkerbell" for Celebi could help this differentiate itself from all of Dragonites other sets. (There is already a "rain tank" set onsite, and tank is a very general word) Those are just my 2 cents on the matter.

    QC APPROVED (1/3)
  8. MetaGross66

    MetaGross66

    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2007
    Messages:
    551
    I've used this with rain support a while back. The idea behind it, and imo the greatest advantage the rain set has is the hax provided by a boosted Waterfall's flinch chance and Hurricane's chance to confuse while hitting almost as hard as Draco Meteor (factor this in with Thunder Wave's paralysis and the opponent will have a hard time just landing a hit). I used a Quiet nature, max attack and max special attack. Is there any particular advantage this set has over the one I described because I'm not liking the drop in power through the use of DM when you're supposed to be tanking hits, paralyzing, roosting, and then attacking (though you'll have to switch out after DM). This seems like it would be much better with Sun support.

    Edit: a Quiet nature would be viable on this set, too with Fire Punch so DM does not get in the way of Flamethrower/Fire Blast's power I guess. Thunder Wave is this set's biggest selling point imo. It allows you to go all out in your attacking stats and not worry about speed.
  9. AccidentalGreed

    AccidentalGreed HOMERUN, CABRONES
    is a Forum Moderatoris a Contributor to Smogon
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2009
    Messages:
    2,626
    Just thought I'd get my thoughts out here:

    Rather than ask how this Dragonite works, I think we need to focus on the "why?" The reason why I would use TinkerBell Celebi is because it provides offensive, supportive, and defensive team traits to the table (did I mention Natural Cure?). This Dragonite, on the other hand, apparently does the same. I wonder, however, if Dragonite works in the same practice. So: "why should I put Dragonite on my team as opposed to other support-oriented Pokemon?"

    I'm struggling to find a place for this Dragonite on a normal team because of its Stealth Rock weakness, not to mention that it's easily exploited by common attacks in the metagame (Volt Turn + Bullet Punch, in addition to recoil). Dragonite makes the difference with its typing, although this typing does hinder it. Providing it with Rapid Spin support adds to the burden of having to constantly switch this in and out (which it will with Draco Meteor), and even with the investment, Dragonite can only take so many hits on the switch-in. Additionally, Dragonite seems to struggle with sandstorm (with Life Orb) and just about any kind of status.

    I didn't get to test this out, but hopefully you can enlighten me on the use of this Dragonite.
  10. BTzz

    BTzz spams overhand rights
    is a Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    May 22, 2011
    Messages:
    689
    While the hax provided by a rain based set can be huge, this one does a much more reliable job at getting the kill since DM+Fire Blast has much better coverage than anything on the rain set. This set can also opperate in any weather where as rain Dnite has to deal with two 70% accurate attacks when rain isn't up. The power drops from Draco Meteor may seem like a problem, but after one DM you're still are able to kill steel types with Fire Blast. For example, 1 DM followed by a -2 Fire Blast still drops standard Ferrothorn and Skarmory. This combo also kills the majority of OU's sweepers. Another thing I like about DM, is the drops will lure in set up sweepers which you can cripple with t-wave. I'll put Dragon Pulse and Quiet in ao.


    This Dragonite hits the hardest out of all the other support-oriented Pokemon in OU, while staying on par with their bulk, factoring in Multiscale. This set isn't completely helpless againt volt-turn. It has 72% chance to OHKO standard Rotom-W with Draco Meteor and even at -2, Fire Blast OHKOs max HP Scizor, so it just takes some prediction. This Dragonite doesn't nessasarily have to switch out once it hits -2. Like I mentioned earlier, it still has some decent power and there's always Roost + Twave stalling. I'll admit, sandstorm + Life Orb + SR damage can get annoying, but Dragonite does have reliable recovery and Dragonite's typing gives it plently of opportunities to roost. This also means Dragonite has trouble repeatedly switching in like you said, but the point of this set is paralyzing something, blasting it and roosting while also setting up a teammate with surprise factor. While status does hurt Dragonite, it isn't really a problem since the only pokes that can get status on this Dragonite without getting ko'd are Blissey and SpD Jellicent (dnite is immune to Toxic Spikes).
  11. Myzozoa

    Myzozoa Throw-up on the internet, or get off on TV
    is a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Past WCoP Winner

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2009
    Messages:
    1,558
    I also feel like this is the way to go, you may not be as affective as a lure, but you get a lot more 'real' support out of it. A lot of the times these sets try to be good at too many things and instead end up doing a lot of things badly (there is a time and a place for Tinkerbell, but it is the exception not the rule). A set with T-wave, Hurricane, Dragon-Tail, and Roost is getting a lot of mileage on a rain team because it can force things through layers of Ferrothorn's spikes as well as neutralize fast sweepers.

    'hits the hardest of the support pokemon in OU' is objectionable on two grounds:

    1. it's kind of like winning the special olympics, to use an incredibly insensitive analogy

    2. 'Support' is a nebulous term. If I use Bullet Punch Lucario to lure and kill Gengar so that CB Terrakion can sweep, is Lucario a support pokemon or a sweeper?

    I'm sure this Dragonite can wreck certain teams, but unlike Tinkerbell which requires no support and is often included on teams as a 'glue' pokemon, this Dragonite requires somewhat substantial support (mainly rapid spin) to be affective. The utility just isn't comparable.
  12. luxor33

    luxor33

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2011
    Messages:
    10
    fix hp evs, with 244 dnite have improved recovery by leftovers
    for the rest :/ nice set
  13. Harsha

    Harsha Rest In Beats
    is a Tutoris a member of the Site Staffis an official Team Rateris a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Smogon Media Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
    RMT Co-Leader

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2011
    Messages:
    1,164
    I think that the EVs should be 248 or 240, because that gives him an odd amount guaranteeing that Dragonite gets 4 switch-ins on SR as opposed to 3. Also, Jirachi makes a good partner because it can paralyze the opponent's Ground and Electric types, so I think that could be mentioned in the AC. Nice work.
  14. zdrup15

    zdrup15
    is a Battle Server Moderatoris a Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2010
    Messages:
    1,814
    Mention that Leftovers should be the item of choice if using this set with Tyranitar. Other than that:

    QC APPROVED 2/3
  15. MetaGross66

    MetaGross66

    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2007
    Messages:
    551
    Sorry I wasn't clearer before. Here's the set I used.

    Dragonite (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Multiscale
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 SAtk
    Quiet Nature (+SAtk, -Spd)
    - Hurricane
    - Waterfall
    - Thunder Wave
    - Roost

    With the Rain you get two STABs both of which have a good chance of haxing your opponent. Hurricane 2KOs Ferrothorn with hazards support (easily achieved with Rotom-W volt switch) so it'll have some trouble switching in. Pretty much the only problems this set has are Jirachi and Blissey since they both can take Para (Jirachi won't like it though) and can take a rain boosted Waterfall while crippling Dragonite. Other than that I can't think of any steels you can't beat with a Rain set. The fact you're doing it without a fire move in the rain is even better because they are more likely to keep their steel type in on a Dragonite in the rain. Whereas, if I see a Dragonite use Draco Meteor I'd be cautious with my Steel type. The main Steel types: Scizor, Skarmory (who has to deal with hax to phaze you), Forretress, and Ferrothorn are losing to Rain Dragonite. Also, Flying + Water gets perfect neutral coverage if I'm not mistaken. You get all of these benefits while avoiding a -2 in Special Attack every time you try to land a powerful hit. I'm not even sure DM Dragonite can beat Specially Defensive Jirachi without sun support if it switches in on DM.

    Also, the drops are irrelevant in luring in sweepers if you're breaking MS with Life Orb. Why set up on something as dangerous as mixnite when you can straight up kill it or cripple the switchin?
  16. Mynism

    Mynism

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2011
    Messages:
    309
    There's already a rain tank set on site.

    Also, definitely slash Dragon Pulse. I've used this set with great succes but DM often makes it a kinda set up bait. It should only be used with Leftovers, though.
  17. AccidentalGreed

    AccidentalGreed HOMERUN, CABRONES
    is a Forum Moderatoris a Contributor to Smogon
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2009
    Messages:
    2,626
    [​IMG]
    Thanks for updating. After talking with zdrup about the set, I changed my mind on this (I at least agreed with the Leftovers variant is good enough, and Life Orb can be great in certain situations), so go ahead and write it up!
  18. BTzz

    BTzz spams overhand rights
    is a Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    May 22, 2011
    Messages:
    689
    Thanks for the approvals guys! I changed the EV spread for SR and I went ahead and bumped up the speed to beat 0 spe Gyarados.

    Edit: oh I though I already mentioned Dragon Pulse :/. Don't worry I'll have it in the write up.
  19. Mynism

    Mynism

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2011
    Messages:
    309
    why would you mention Flame Plate and not Dragon Pulse ?
  20. Bugbot

    Bugbot

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2010
    Messages:
    200
    This set needs a unique name like Celebi's Tinkerbell set. YoshiNite lol
  21. alexwolf

    alexwolf Rain Summoner
    is a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2009
    Messages:
    6,703
    Could someone remind us how the name Tinkerbell was created, so we could get some ideas about this one also?
  22. blunder

    blunder

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2011
    Messages:
    573
    Used this on PO just a bit ago, and it did work-- Maybe an Option of Dragon Pulse over Draco Meteor?
  23. AccidentalGreed

    AccidentalGreed HOMERUN, CABRONES
    is a Forum Moderatoris a Contributor to Smogon
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2009
    Messages:
    2,626
    Sigh.

  24. BTzz

    BTzz spams overhand rights
    is a Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    May 22, 2011
    Messages:
    689
    This is ready for GP checks (my grammar sucks btw)

    Oh and it would be nice if a QC member could look over the damage calcs and decide if any of them need to be removed / added since I didn't have them during the QC phase.
  25. Cooky

    Cooky

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2009
    Messages:
    499
    imagination

Users Viewing Thread (Users: 0, Guests: 0)