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Dragonite (Update) [GP 2/2]

Discussion in 'Uploaded Analyses' started by Crystal_, May 5, 2012.

  1. Crystal_

    Crystal_
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    Taking over this for Jorgen




    [Overview]

    <p>It's got a wide attacking movepool. It's tied with Mew for the second-highest Base Stat Total in the game. It's the only fully-evolved Dragon-type in RBY, a type that sounds legendary on its own and that resists the STAB attacks of all three starter Pokemon. It's the final Pokemon used by Lance, the fourth member of the Elite Four. Clearly, Dragonite was intended to be some sort of legendary behemoth, the boss Pokemon to end all boss Pokemon, at least until the player found Mewtwo. However, in competitive usage, Dragonite is more likely to elicit groans and grimaces of irritation rather than the intended screams and wide eyes of terror. This is because Dragonite's power in OU does not derive from Hyper Beam, its massive base 134 Attack, its typing, or its diverse Special movepool. Rather, it's because of an annoying little move that its lowly first-stage evolution, Dratini, knows from the start: Wrap.</p>

    <p>Wrap's mechanics differ drastically in RBY compared to later generations; the move has a mere 15 Base Power, but it prevents the opposing Pokemon from making a move while the Wrap user is locked into this move for 2-5 turns. Furthermore, the immobilized opponent cannot attack even during the turn the Wrap user switches out, providing a safe entry for another Pokemon. However, unlike in other generations, the opponent might switch out the Pokemon that is incapacitated by Wrap. Dragonite is the best Wrap user in RBY because it, unlike any other RBY Wrapper, also has access to Agility to make it faster than any other Pokemon in the game. If Dragonite gets lucky and hits all of its Wraps, it can totally sweep a team without the opponent even being able to move. This sounds broken, and indeed, some RBY players play with bans on Wrap and all other moves like it (Bind, Clamp, Fire Spin) because of their potential. However, Dragonite might always miss a Wrap or two, leaving it vulnerable to get paralyzed or shellacked by an Ice-type move. It is this unreliability that prevents Dragonite from being considered a staple of RBY OU when Wrap is allowed. When Wrap is not allowed, Dragonite is barely worth mentioning in OU due to its lack of STAB, mediocre Speed, and disastrous 4x weakness to the ubiquitous Ice Beam and Blizzard.</p>

    [SET]
    name: AgiliWrap
    move 1: Agility
    move 2: Wrap
    move 3: Hyper Beam
    move 4: Surf / Blizzard

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Here it is, possibly the most annoying set in all of Pokemon history. It's more than just annoying, however; it's absolutely deadly if luck is on your side. Agility boosts Dragonite's Speed above that of any unboosted Pokemon in the game. It then proceeds to take advantage Wrap's debilitating mechanics by repeatedly using the move to render any switch-in unable to move, while slowly whittling away at the opposing Pokemon's health. Wrap can even be used to immobilize Gengar, who is immune to Normal-type moves, although Gengar is unlike other Wrap victims in that it does not take damage while incapacitated by Wrap. It is, however, not easy to find a good moment to use Agility, due to the prevalence of Ice-type and paralysis-inducing moves in RBY. Switching into the occasional sleeping or frozen Pokemon lets Dragonite set up Agility safely, however. Otherwise, slow Pokemon such as Golem, Rhydon, Snorlax, and Exeggutor that lack Stun Spore are good options to switch in and set up on. Taking a hit from them, however, means that Dragonite is now OHKOed by unSTAB-boosted Ice-type attacks.</p>

    <p>Once the opponent's Pokemon has been worn down to low enough health, Dragonite can use one of its other two attacking moves to secure the KO. Hyper Beam is generally the best option, as it is the strongest attack in Dragonite's movepool. Dragonite will usually be able to avoid Hyper Beam's incapacitating side effect as Wrap is meant to first put Pokemon in Hyper Beam's OHKO range. It lacks STAB, but comes from a base 134 Attack stat. Surf is the preferred option in the last slot as it guarantees an OHKO on the Rock / Ground types Golem and Rhydon. Blizzard can be used in its place to heavily damage Golem and Rhydon, but also to give Dragonite its best direct attack to use against Gengar. It also works as an alternative finishing move for Pokemon such as Zapdos and Exeggutor and, unlike Hyper Beam, does not force Dragonite to recharge if it does not OHKO.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>Dragonite is generally saved for a sweep and, as such, appreciates support from teammates that can spread paralysis directly. Not only does paralysis make Dragonite faster than the opponent without it having to use Agility, a full paralysis might also save Dragonite if Wrap misses. Alakazam, Chansey, Starmie, Exeggutor, Slowbro, and Zapdos are all Pokemon that can perform that role excellently. The former options can tank hits from many threats as well, while the latter two provide more offensive pressure. The choices should depend on how offensive you want your team to be, although it should be noted that Alakazam and Slowbro are generally the best options to spread paralysis.</p>

    <p>In addition, Dragonite is able to do more than merely sweep with Wrap; if it gets in on a predicted switch to a slow Pokemon, such as Exeggutor, Snorlax, or Chansey, or on a predicted Earthquake from Rhydon or Golem, it can use Wrap against whatever your opponent might decide to switch in. Dragonite can then switch out to a counter, which is guaranteed to take no damage from the switch-in thanks to Wrap's immobilization effect. Dragonite's ability to act as a pivot makes it a decent mid-game partner for heavy-hitters such as Snorlax and Rhydon to let them switch in on paralyzed foes with impunity. Moreover, as Wrap can still immobilize Gengar, hard-hitters such as Snorlax, Rhydon, Golem, and Tauros also synergize well with Dragonite in this regard. If Gengar switches into Wrap, you can immediately go to a powerful sweeper without taking damage thanks to Wrap's mechanics. Earthquake will generally scare Gengar out, giving Dragonite the possibility of punishing whatever your opponent switches in.</p>

    [Other Options]

    <p>Dragonite makes good use of Thunderbolt to hit Cloyster hard and dish out decent damage against Lapras on the switch-ins, both of which can scare Dragonite out with the threat of an OHKO with Blizzard. Thunder Wave can be useful against switch-ins that are typically difficult to paralyze, such as Gengar and Starmie, that Dragonite is bound to see. Body Slam blends damage with paralysis chance if you don't want to give up an attacking move for paralysis. Double-Edge is slightly stronger than Body Slam at the cost of not being able to paralyze and causing recoil damage. As finisher moves, both options have an advantage over Hyper Beam by not having to recharge if the opposing Pokemon is not KOed; the lower Base Power makes these moves unfavorable choices, however.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>Gengar is the chief check as it's immune to Wrap and takes a pittance from any of Dragonite's other options. It doesn't really accomplish much against Dragonite, though, but will generally outlast non-Blizzard Dragonite one-on-one in a battle between unSTAB-boosted special attacks. Powerful Blizzard users, such as Lapras, Cloyster, Articuno, and to an extent, Jynx, can all scare Dragonite out with the threat of an OHKO. The former three are very physically bulky and will be able to take several hits before dying, which makes it all the more likely that Wrap will miss at some point. Exeggutor and especially Slowbro are also very bulky and can threaten Dragonite with paralysis, but apart from that, they won't generally be able to handle Dragonite on their own. Chansey and Starmie are resilient with their instant recovery and usually carry Ice moves that can 2HKO Dragonite. These two can also paralyze Dragonite with Thunder Wave and force it to risk full paralysis in addition to Wrap misses. Note that Dragonite can use Agility again to completely ignore the Speed reduction from paralysis and resume being faster than all of your Pokemon. On the other hand, however, as full paralysis can also occur in the middle of a Wrap sequence, paralysis will severely limit Dragonite's potential. Its often even advised to go for the guaranteed paralysis with Thunder Wave instead of using an unSTAB-boosted Ice-type attack that will not OHKO.</p>

    <p>Any Pokemon that has enough health to take Dragonite's Hyper Beam can switch in to this predicted finishing move to cripple or KO Dragonite. When the opposing Pokemon is in KO range from Hyper Beam, the Dragonite user is likely to use it instead of Wrap, to avoid the possibility of an untimely Wrap miss. Punishing a predicted Hyper Beam could give you the possibility of paralyzing or KOing Dragonite. However, proper prediction is required since Dragonite could continue using Wrap, which by itself still has a high success rate against the weakened opponent. Pokemon that resist Normal-type moves, such as Golem and Rhydon, might even be surprised by Surf, which will OHKO them.</p>

    <p>It's important to note that, if given the chance, using the turn Dragonite uses Agility to cripple it is crucial. Even if you can only land one move that won't do much to Dragonite, such as Body Slam or Psychic, it may still be very rewarding later on, as it will increase the chances of any Ice-type move OHKOing Dragonite. In addition, Body Slam may also score paralysis, which will often ruins Dragonite's ability to effectively sweep.</p>

    <p>If all else fails, you can try to stall it out of Wrap PP if you can count carefully to 32. Wrap is very weak and locks Dragonite into Wrap if it chooses to stay in, regardless of whether you choose to switch or stay in yourself. Thus, you can repeatedly switch out to force Dragonite to use more turns which read "Dragonite used Wrap!" and that therefore cost PP as opposed to the "Its attack continues!" turns that do not use PP. However, if you miscount and switch out after Dragonite has used its last Wrap PP, Dragonite will still be forced to use Wrap PP, but instead of forcing Dragonite to use Struggle, RBY glitches and rolls Wrap's PP counter up to 63 to allow it to use Wrap again, thereby rendering your stall for naught. This strategy works much more effectively if you have Golem or Rhydon on your team, since otherwise you will have to sacrifice at least one Pokemon before Wrap runs out of PP.</p>
  2. Pocket

    Pocket Apo, the astronaut's best friend >:3
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    Love the intro - well-written, Crystal! Just a few suggestions.
    • I would provide a clearer definition of Wrap mechanics though. Incapacitation is a vague word, and consecutive hits can be misinterpreted as a multi-hit move like Fury Swipes. The following provides a more lucid explanation, imo
      Wrap's mechanics drastically differ in RBY compared to later generations; the move has low base power, but it prevents the opposing Pokemon from making a move while the Wrap user is locked into this move for 2-5 turns. Even more, the immobilized opponent cannot attack even during the turn the Wrap user switches out, providing a safe entry for another Pokemon. However, unlike in other generations, the opponent may switch out his Pokemon that is incapacitated by Wrap.
    • Add Double-Edge over Hyper Beam in AC, which provides Dragonite with the second hardest-hitting move in its arsenal without the risk of recharging.
    • Under AC, I suggest mentioning teammates that can lure and damage or counter Gengar. Snorlax and Chansey can lure and EQ and T-Wave Gengar, respectively. Exeggutor, Alakazam, Golem, and Rhydon are all good options to remove Gengar, too. You already mentioned these mons under AC, but add a paragraph that explains how they are useful in the context of dealing with Gengar.
    • Under Checks and Counters, Snorlax and Slowbro is worth mentioning for their overall bulkiness to take Dragonite's multiple assaults and threaten with Self-Destruct and Thunder Wave, respetively.
    • Under Checks and Counters, I will provide a general strategy against Agility Dragonite after the paragraph that describes physically bulky mons that can repeatedly take Dragonite's abuse. The general strategy is to keep one of those bulky mons in reserve, while Dragonite whittles down a Pokemon to Hyper Beam range. Then one can switch in the bulky mon to absorb the potential Hyper Beam and cripple Dragonite during its recharge turn. The "bait" Pokemon obviously should not be a Pokemon weak to Blizzard / Surf, such as Golem or Exeggutor; Chansey or Blizzard-resisting mons like Starmie are perfect for baiting Dragonite to Hyper Beam.
    • "Trap" is misleading, since it implies that Gengar cannot be switched out. Immobolize is a more accurate term.
    • Add the phrase in bold green:
      Once Wrap wears down the opponent's Pokemon to low enough health, Dragonite can use one of its other two attacking moves to secure the KO
    • It's worth to mention that this un-Stabbed Hyper Beam is coming from a base 134 Atk
    • The sentence is too long - break it into three sentences - the red hash marks are where I suggest you make the break.
    • "ruin" is a vague term - change the phrase in red to the following or something similar:
      does not force Dragonite to recharge if they survive the hit
    • The red phrase is inaccurate, since paralysis DOES cut Dragonite's Speed until it invests another turn to use Agility. The following green sentence may be a clearer explanation:
      Just note that Dragonite can use Agility again to completely ignore the speed reduction from paralysis and resume being faster than all of your Pokemon.
    • Replace you with Dragonite.
  3. Crystal_

    Crystal_
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    I don't think Snorlax is a good counter. Body Slam only has 30% chance of paralysis, and SD doesn't ohko and imples sacrificing Snorlax anyway.

    Not sure about Wrap wears down the opponent's Pokemon to low enough health , the fact that a Pokemon is at low health doesn't mean that Dnite's wrap is what has worn it down. It could've been another pokemon, you know. I'd imo keep the original sentence.

    Uhm, Jorgen wrote everything actually, I thought you knew it. He asked for someone to go for it because he is busy or something. My changes are in either blue or green.
  4. Pocket

    Pocket Apo, the astronaut's best friend >:3
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    Oh okay, amazing intro, Jorgen :O

    Under Checks and Counters, I will provide a general strategy against Agility Dragonite after the paragraph that describes physically bulky mons that can repeatedly take Dragonite's abuse. The general strategy is to keep one of those bulky mons in reserve, while Dragonite whittles down a Pokemon to Hyper Beam range. Then one can switch in the bulky mon to absorb the potential Hyper Beam and cripple Dragonite during its recharge turn. The "bait" Pokemon obviously should not be a Pokemon weak to Blizzard / Surf, such as Golem or Exeggutor; Chansey or Blizzard-resisting mons like Starmie are perfect for baiting Dragonite to Hyper Beam.

    The sentence is too long - break it into three sentences - the red hash marks are where I suggest you make the break.

    EDIT: thanks for the color-coded goodness, Crystal :)
  5. Texas Cloverleaf

    Texas Cloverleaf meh
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    As finisher moves, both options have the advantage over Hyper Beam on not having to recharge if your opponent predicts the move, but the low power often isn't worth it, though.

    change to

    As finisher moves, both options have the advantage over Hyper Beam by not having to recharge if your opponent predicts the move; the low power is rarely worth it, however.
  6. Crystal_

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    Dnite generally shows up in the end game though so it's often too late to "reserve" that bulky mon...
  7. Pocket

    Pocket Apo, the astronaut's best friend >:3
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    I usually have one or two mons that can take an unstabbed Hyper Beam late-game - they don't need to be in perfect health to do this - most mons can sponge a Hyper Beam if they have 50% health (or less). This is a more reliable strategy than PP-wasting Wrap.
    • Don't forget to mention the "bait" Pokemon that is luring Dragonite to use Hyper Beam. The important quality of this Pokemon is that it is not weak to Blizzard / Surf, forcing Dragonite to fire off a Hyper Beam.
    • Another important thing to note - Dragonite is vulnerable the turn it uses Agility. Tell readers to exploit this turn to dish damage or status Dragonite for a higher chance to KO
    I'd change this sentence to this:
    • Any Pokemon that has enough health to take Dragonite's Hyper Beam can switch in to this predicted finishing move to cripple or KO Dragonite.
  8. Crystal_

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    Of course, it's likely that you have something to survive an hbeam. But what you said in the other post sounds to me like it's good to reserve something specifically for Dragonite; yeah it's good, but you generally won't know Dnite exists until the end anyway.

    I mentioned this in set comments, but more oriented to how to use it if you are the user (actually i just said that you have to watch out), rather that how to prevent it for happening. Either way, Dnite will switch try to switch into something that can't ohko/paralyze it in order to set up agility: ideally Golem/Rhydon, otherwise Snorlax, non-stun eggys, maybe Tauros. I can only think of suggesting not using none of these... lol.

    ok
  9. Pocket

    Pocket Apo, the astronaut's best friend >:3
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    Well Golem / Rhydon / Snorlax can always go for the paraslam or Explosion / Rock Slide / Self-D for heavy damage on the turn for heavy damage. Tauros can paraslam or critical Blizzard KO; Eggy can throw a strong Psychic or an Explosion. The advice was to weaken or cripple Dragonite on the turn it uses Agility - don't just switch out and let it boost up for free. Now all you need is one Wrap miss / HBeam recharge instead of two to take down Dragonite. That was really my point - I know it's common sense to us, but people unfamiliar with the strategy would not mind some extra tips.

    You may want to mention that a best way to bring in Dragonite is against a frozen, or even less circumstantial, a sleeping Pokemon. That way, Dragonite can Agility up for free and risk not getting paraslammed / crit KOed.

    Approved (1/2)
  10. Earthworm

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    "(Gengar) will outlast Dragonite one-on-one in a battle between unstabbed special attacks."

    Assuming Gengar is coming in on Dragonite's Agility, this will generally be true for Surf (though not always), but not with any consistency for Blizzard. I am not sure that it is a good idea to say it that way.

    Overall though this is very good. I approve (2/2).
  11. Hipmonlee

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    I dont really like this, mostly because Golem and Rhydon are clearly not the best pokemon to set up against, I am pretty sure that honour would go to Caterpie. But even only considering serious suggestions, things like Stunsporeless exeggutors must be better than pokemon with STAB super effective attacks. But even if that werent the case, what is the best pokemon to set up against is too situational to have the analysis say that there is a best. I mean, in a case like, the best thing to send in against starmie is chansey I could accept, because chansey is so far ahead of anything else as a starmie counter, but in this case I dont think it warrants it.

    I think you want to say like, if you can set up without taking paralysis then that is good, since you cant really take hits much anyway, and the 25% chance of fp is bad when you need to hit a lot of times consecutively. And that if you can set up without taking damage as well then you will probably survive any ice attacks you will meet, which can earn you an extra miss. One extra miss can be worth quite a lot of damage from a Nite.

    But there are a lot of ways to get Dragonite set up. And I think singling out Golem and Rhydon as the best is a bad idea because a lot of those ways are better than setting up against Golem and Rhydon.

    Otherwise it looks good.
  12. Crystal_

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    Well, against rock-types you can switch as they EQ, then my point was that Surf generally scares them out, giving you the possibility of setting up Agility without taking a hit. non-stun eggs are otherwise the best i agree, but most eggys carry stun spore anyway imo.
    yeah anyway is situational overall. Tell me if you agree with the new paragraph.
  13. Hipmonlee

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    Looks great.
  14. NixHex

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    [Overview]

    <p>It's got a wide attacking movepool. It's tied with Mew for the second-highest Base Stat Total in the game. It's the only fully-evolved Dragon-type in RBY, a type that sounds legendary on its own and that resists the STABs of all three starter Pokemon. It's the final Pokemon used by Lance, the fourth member of the Elite Four. Clearly, Dragonite was intended to be some sort of legendary behemoth, the boss Pokemon to end all boss Pokemon, at least until the player found Mewtwo. However, in competitive usage, Dragonite is more likely to elicit the groans and grimaces of irritation rather than the intended screams and wide eyes of terror. This is because Dragonite's OU power does not derive from Hyper Beam, its massive base 134 Attack, its typing, or its diverse Special Attacking movepool. Rather, it's because of an annoying little move that its lowly first-stage evolution, Dratini, knows from the start: Wrap.</p>


    <p>(no space)
    Wrap's mechanics drastically differ drastically in RBY compared to later generations; the move has a mere 15 base power, but it prevents the opposing Pokemon from making a move while the Wrap user is locked into this move for 2-5 turns. Even more, the immobilized opponent cannot attack even during the turn the Wrap user switches out, providing a safe entry for another Pokemon. However, unlike in other generations, the opponent may switch out his Pokemon that is incapacitated by Wrap. Dragonite is the best Wrap user in RBY because it, unlike any other RBY Wrapper, also has access to Agility to make it faster than any other Pokemon in the game. If Dragonite gets lucky and hits all of its Wraps, it can totally sweep a team without the opponent even being able to move. This sounds incredible, and indeed, some RBY players play with bans on Wrap and all other moves like it (Bind, Clamp, Fire Spin) because of their potential. However, Dragonite can also miss a Wrap or two and be subject to paralysis or a shellacking from an Ice move. It is this unreliability that prevents Dragonite from being considered a staple of RBY OU when Wrap is allowed. When Wrap is not allowed, Dragonite is barely worth mentioning in OU due to its lack of STAB, mediocre Speed, and incredible 4x weakness to the ubiquitous Ice Beam and Blizzard.</p>

    [SET]

    name: AgiliWrap
    move 1: Agility
    move 2: Wrap
    move 3: Hyper Beam
    move 4: Surf / Blizzard

    [SET COMMENTS]


    <p>Here it is, possibly the most annoying set in all of Pokemon history. It's more than just annoying, however; it's absolutely deadly if luck is on your side. Agility boosts Dragonite's Speed above that of any unboosted Pokemon in the game. It then proceeds to abuse Wrap's debilitating mechanics, repeatedly using the move to render any switch-in unable to move while slowly whittling away at the opposing Pokemon's health.
    Wrap can even be used to immobilize Gengar, who is immune to Normal-type moves, although Gengar is unlike other Wrap victims in that it does not take damage while incapacitated by Wrap. It is, however, not easy to find a good moment to use Agility, due to the prevalence of Ice-type and paralysis inducing moves in RBY. Switching into the occassional occasional sleeping or frozen Pokemon when your opponent is unaware would let you set up Agility safely. Otherwise, slow Pokemon such as Golem, Rhydon, Snorlax,(comma) and Stun Sporeless Exeggutor lacking Stun Spore are good options to set up into. Taking a hit from them, however, will mean that Dargonite Dragonite is now OHKOed by unSTABbed Ice-type Attacks.</p>

    <p> Once the opponent's Pokemon has been worn down to low enough health, Dragonite can use one of its other two attacking moves to secure the KO. Hyper Beam is the general option, being the strongest attack in Dragonite's movepool and also avoiding incapacitation of the user when it KOs the opponent.
    It lacks STAB, but comes from a base 134 Attack Stat. Surf is the preferred option in the last slot since it guarantees an OHKO on Ground-and-Rock-types the Ground- and Rock-types, Golem and Rhydon. Blizzard can be used in its place to maintain heavy damage against Golem and Rhydon while giving Dragonite its best direct attack to use against Gengar. It also works as an alternative finishing move for Pokemon such as Zapdos and Exeggutor that, and, unlike Hyper Beam, does not force Dragonite to recharge if it is predicted.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]


    <p>Dragonite is generally saved for a sweep,(no comma) and,(comma) as such,
    it appreciates support from teammates that can spread paralysis directly. Paralysis not only makes Dragonite faster than the opponent without using Agility, a full paralysis might also save Dragonite if Wrap misses. Alakazam, Chansey, Starmie, Exeggutor, Slowbro,(comma) and Zapdos are some examples for that role. The former options can tank many threats as well, while the latter two provide more on the offensive side. The choices should depend on how offensive you want your team to be, although it should be noted that Alakazam and Slowbro are generally the best options to spread paralysis.as far as spreading paralysis goes.</p>

    <p>In addition, Dragonite is able to do more than merely sweep with Wrap; if it gets in on a predicted switch to a
    slow Pokemon like such as Exeggutor, Snorlax,(comma) or Chansey, or on a predicted Earthquake from Rhydon or Golem, it can use Wrap against whatever might decide to switch in, then switch out to a counter that's guaranteed to take no damage on the switch-in thanks to Wrap's immobilization. Dragonite's ability to act as a pivot makes it a decent mid-game partner for heavy-hitters such as Snorlax and Rhydon to let them switch in on paralyzed foes with impunity. Moreover, since Wrap can still inmovilize immobilize Gengar, hard-hitters such as Snorlax, Rhydon, Golem,(comma) and Tauros also synergyze synergize well with Dragonite in this regard. If Gengar switches into Wrap, you can immediately go to a powerful sweeper without taking damage thanks to Wrap's mechanics. Earthquake will generally scare Gengar out, giving you the possibility of punishing whatever your opponent switches in.</p>

    [Other Options]


    <p>Dragonite makes good use of Thunderbolt to hit Cloyster hard and dish out decent damage against Lapras switch-ins, both of which can scare Dragonite out with the threat of a Blizzard OHKO on a missed Wrap. Thunder Wave could be useful against switch-ins that are typically difficult to paralyze, such as Gengar and Starmie, that Dragonite is bound to see. Body Slam blends damage with paralysis chance if you don't want to give up an attacking move for paralysis.
    Double-Edge is slightly stronger than Body Slam at the cost of not being able to paralyze and causing recoil damage. As finisher moves, both options have the advantage over Hyper Beam by not having to recharge if your opponent predicts the move; the low power is rarely worth it, however.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]


    <p>Gengar is the chief check since it's immune to Wrap and takes a pittance from whatever else Dragonite could be using. It doesn't really accomplish much against Dragonite, though(no space)
    , but will generally outlast non-Blizzard Dragonite one-on-one in a battle between unSTABbed special attacks. Powerful Blizzard users,(no comma) such as Lapras, Cloyster, Articuno, and to an extent, Jynx, can all scare Dragonite out with the threat of an OHKO. The former three are very physically bulky and will be able to take a lot of hits before dying, increasing the chance of Wrap missing. Exeggutor and especially Slowbro are also very bulky and can threaten Dragonite back with paralysis, but,(no comma) apart from that, they won't generally be able to handle Dragonite on their own. Chansey and Starmie are resilient with their instant recovery and usually carry Ice moves that can 2HKO Dragonite. These two can also paralyze Dragonite with Thunder Wave and force it to risk full paralysis in addition to Wrap misses. Just note that Dragonite can use Agility again to completely ignore the speed reduction from paralysis and resume being faster than all of your Pokemon. On the other hand, however, since full paralyses can also occur in the middle of a Wrap sequence, paralysis will severely limit Dragonite's potential. Its often even advised to go for the guaranteed paralysis instead of an unstabbed Ice-move that will not OHKO.</p>

    <p>
    Any Pokemon that has enough health to take Dragonite's Hyper Beam can switch in to this predicted finishing move to cripple or KO Dragonite. For the Dragonite user, using Hyper Beam when the opposing Pokemon is in its KO range,(no comma) instead of keeping using continuing to use Wrap, will increase his chances of successfully pulling off the KO without missing a move. Punishing a predicted Hyper Beam could give you the possibility of paralyzing or KOing Dragonite. However, proper prediction is required since Dragonite could countinue using Wrap, which still has a high success rate by itself against the weakened opponent. Normal-type-resisting resists,Golem and Rhydon, might even be surprised with Surf, which will OHKO them.</p>

    <p>It's important to note that, if given the chance, abusing the turn Dragonite uses Agility to cripple it is crucial. Even if you can only land one move that won't do much to Dragonite, like such as Body Slam or Psychic, it may still be very rewarding later on, as it will let any unstabed unSTABbed Ice-type move to score a KO in one hit. In addition, Body Slam may also score paralysis, which will ruin Dragonite.</p>

    <p>If all else fails, you can try to stall it out of Wrap PP if you can count carefully to 32. Wrap is very weak and locks Dragonite into Wrap if it chooses to stay in, regardless of whether you choose to switch or stay in yourself. Thus, you can repeatedly switch out to force Dragonite to use more turns which read "Dragonite used Wrap!" and that therefore cost PP as opposed to the "Its attack continues!" turns that do not use PP. However, if you mis-count miscount and switch out after Dragonite has used its last Wrap PP, Dragonite will still be forced to use Wrap PP, but instead of forcing Dragonite to use Struggle, RBY glitches and rolls Wrap's PP counter over to 63 to allow it to use Wrap again, thereby rendering your stall all for naught.
    This strategy works better if you have Golem or Rhydon in your team, since otherwise you will have to sacrifice at least one Pokemon before Wrap runs out of PP.</p>

    I love GPing these old gen analyses, they're very interesting. Nice read.
    [​IMG]
    [GP 1/2]
  15. SkullCandy

    SkullCandy She Bangs The Drums
    is a Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2010
    Messages:
    558
    copypastable (open)

    [Overview]

    <p>It's got a wide attacking movepool. It's tied with Mew for the second-highest Base Stat Total in the game. It's the only fully-evolved Dragon-type in RBY, a type that sounds legendary on its own and that resists the STABs of all three starter Pokemon. It's the final Pokemon used by Lance, the fourth member of the Elite Four. Clearly, Dragonite was intended to be some sort of legendary behemoth, the boss Pokemon to end all boss Pokemon, at least until the player found Mewtwo. However, in competitive usage, Dragonite is more likely to elicit groans and grimaces of irritation rather than the intended screams and wide eyes of terror. This is because Dragonite's power in OU does not derive from Hyper Beam, its massive base 134 Attack, its typing, or its diverse Special movepool. Rather, it's because of an annoying little move that its lowly first-stage evolution, Dratini, knows from the start: Wrap.</p>

    <p>Wrap's mechanics differ drastically in RBY compared to later generations; the move has a mere 15 Base Power, but it prevents the opposing Pokemon from making a move while the Wrap user is locked into this move for 2-5 turns. Furthermore, the immobilized opponent cannot attack even during the turn the Wrap user switches out, providing a safe entry for another Pokemon. However, unlike in other generations, the opponent may switch out his Pokemon that is incapacitated by Wrap. Dragonite is the best Wrap user in RBY because it, unlike any other RBY Wrapper, it also has access to Agility to make it faster than any other Pokemon in the game. If Dragonite gets lucky and hits all of its Wraps, it can totally sweep a team without the opponent even being able to move. This sounds broken, and indeed, some RBY players play with bans on Wrap and all other moves like it (Bind, Clamp, Fire Spin) because of their potential. However, Dragonite can always miss a Wrap or two, get paralyzed, or get shellacked by an Ice-type move . It is this unreliability that prevents Dragonite from being considered a staple of RBY OU when Wrap is allowed. When Wrap is not allowed, Dragonite is barely worth mentioning in OU due to its lack of STAB, mediocre Speed, and disastrous 4x weakness to the ubiquitous Ice Beam and Blizzard.</p>

    [SET]
    name: AgiliWrap
    move 1: Agility
    move 2: Wrap
    move 3: Hyper Beam
    move 4: Surf / Blizzard

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Here it is, possibly the most annoying set in all of Pokemon history. It's more than just annoying, however; it's absolutely deadly if luck is on your side. Agility boosts Dragonite's Speed above that of any unboosted Pokemon in the game. It then proceeds to abuse Wrap's debilitating mechanics, repeatedly using the move to render any switch-in unable to move while slowly whittling away at the opposing Pokemon's health. Wrap can even be used to immobilize Gengar, who is immune to Normal-type moves, although Gengar is unlike other Wrap victims in that it does not take damage while incapacitated by Wrap. It is, however, not easy to find a good moment to use Agility, due to the prevalence of Ice-type and paralysis inducing moves in RBY. Switching into the occasional sleeping or frozen Pokemon lets you set up Agility safely, however. Otherwise, slow Pokemon such as Golem, Rhydon, Snorlax, and Exeggutor that lack Stun Spore are good options to set up on. Taking a hit from them, however, will usually result in a dead Dragonite.</p>

    <p> Once the opponent's Pokemon has been worn down to low enough health, Dragonite can use one of its other two attacking moves to secure the KO. Hyper Beam is generally the best option, as it is the strongest attack in Dragonite's movepool. Dragonite will usually be able to avoid Hyper Beam's incapacitating side effect, however, as Wrap should put Pokemon in range of getting OHKOed by Hyper Beam. It lacks STAB, but comes from a base 134 Attack stat. Surf is the preferred option in the last slot since it guarantees an OHKO on the Rock / Ground types Golem and Rhydon. Blizzard can be used in its place to heavily damage Golem and Rhydon, but also to give Dragonite its best direct attack to use against Gengar. It also works as an alternative finishing move for Pokemon such as Zapdos and Exeggutor and, unlike Hyper Beam, does not force Dragonite to recharge if it it does not OHKO.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>Dragonite is generally saved for a sweep<add space>and, as such, appreciates support from teammates that can spread paralysis directly. Paralysis not only makes Dragonite faster than the opponent without it having to use Agility, a full paralysis might also save Dragonite if Wrap misses. Alakazam, Chansey, Starmie, Exeggutor, Slowbro, and Zapdos are all Pokemon that can perform that role excellently. The former options can tank hits from many threats as well, while the latter two provide more offensive pressure. The choices should depend on how offensive you want your team to be, although it should be noted that Alakazam and Slowbro are generally the best options to spread paralysis.</p>

    <p>In addition, Dragonite is able to do more than merely sweep with Wrap; if it gets in on a predicted switch to a slow Pokemon,<add space>such as<add space>Exeggutor, Snorlax, or Chansey, or on a predicted Earthquake from Rhydon or Golem, it can use Wrap against whatever might decide to switch in,. Dragonite can then switch out to a counter, which is guaranteed to take no damage on the switch-in thanks to Wrap's secondary effect. Dragonite's ability to act as a pivot makes it a decent mid-game partner for heavy-hitters such as Snorlax and Rhydon to let them switch in on paralyzed foes with impunity. Moreover, since Wrap can still immobilize Gengar, hard-hitters such as Snorlax, Rhydon, Golem, and Tauros also synergize well with Dragonite in this regard. If Gengar switches into Wrap, you can immediately go to a powerful sweeper without taking damage thanks to Wrap's mechanics. Earthquake will generally scare Gengar out, giving you the possibility of punishing whatever your opponent switches in.</p>

    [Other Options]

    <p>Dragonite makes good use of Thunderbolt to hit Cloyster hard and dish out decent damage against Lapras switch-ins, both of which can scare Dragonite out with the threat of an OHKO with Blizzard. Thunder Wave can be useful against switch-ins that are typically difficult to paralyze, such as Gengar and Starmie, that Dragonite is bound to see. Body Slam blends damage with paralysis chance if you don't want to give up an attacking move for paralysis. Double-Edge is slightly stronger than Body Slam at the cost of not being able to paralyze and causing recoil damage. As finisher moves, both options have an advantage over Hyper Beam by not having to recharge if the opposing Pokemon is not KOed; the lower Base Power is rarely worth makes these moves unfavourable choices, however.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>Gengar is the chief check since it's immune to Wrap and takes a pittance from anything else Dragonite could be using. It doesn't really accomplish much against Dragonite, though, but will generally outlast non-Blizzard Dragonite one-on-one in a battle between unSTABbed special attacks. Powerful Blizzard users such as Lapras, Cloyster, Articuno, and to an extent, Jynx, can all scare Dragonite out with the threat of an OHKO. The former three are very physically bulky and will be able to take a lot of hits before dying, which makes it all the more likely that Wrap will miss at some point. Exeggutor and especially Slowbro are also very bulky and can threaten Dragonite with paralysis, but apart from that, they won't generally be able to handle Dragonite on their own. Chansey and Starmie are resilient with their instant recovery and usually carry Ice moves that can 2HKO Dragonite. These two can also paralyze Dragonite with Thunder Wave and force it to risk full paralysis in addition to Wrap misses. Note that Dragonite can use Agility again to completely ignore the speed reduction from paralysis and resume being faster than all of your Pokemon. On the other hand, however, since full paralyses can also occur in the middle of a Wrap sequence, paralysis will severely limit Dragonite's potential. Its often even advised to go for the guaranteed paralysis with Thunder Wave instead of using an unstabbed Ice-move that will not OHKO.</p>

    <p>Any Pokemon that has enough health to take Dragonite's Hyper Beam can switch in to this predicted finishing move to cripple or KO Dragonite. When the opposing Pokemon is in KO range from Hyper Beam you should always use it instead of Wrap, to avoid the possibility of an untimely Wrap miss. Punishing a predicted Hyper Beam could give you the possibility of paralyzing or KOing Dragonite. However, proper prediction is required since Dragonite could continue using Wrap, which still has a high success rate by itself against the weakened opponent. Pokemon that resist Normal-type moves, such as Golem and Rhydon, might even be surprised by Surf, which will OHKO them.</p>

    <p>It's important to note that, if given the chance, using the turn Dragonite uses Agility to cripple it is crucial. Even if you can only land one move that won't do much to Dragonite, such as Body Slam or Psychic, it may still be very rewarding later on, as it will increase the chances of any Ice-type move scoring you a KO in one hit. In addition, Body Slam may also score paralysis, which will ruin Dragonite's ability to do anything useful.</p>

    <p>If all else fails, you can try to stall it out of Wrap PP if you can count carefully to 32. Wrap is very weak and locks Dragonite into Wrap if it chooses to stay in, regardless of whether you choose to switch or stay in yourself. Thus, you can repeatedly switch out to force Dragonite to use more turns which read "Dragonite used Wrap!" and that therefore cost PP as opposed to the "Its attack continues!" turns that do not use PP. However, if you miscount and switch out after Dragonite has used its last Wrap PP, Dragonite will still be forced to use Wrap PP, but instead of forcing Dragonite to use Struggle, RBY glitches and rolls Wrap's PP counter up to 63 to allow it to use Wrap again, thereby rendering your stall for naught. This strategy works better if you have Golem or Rhydon in your team, since otherwise you will have to sacrifice at least one Pokemon before Wrap runs out of PP.</p>


    [​IMG]

    GP approved 2/2

    Good job :)
  16. Carl

    Carl or Varl
    is a Smogon IRC AOp Alumnusis a Super Moderator Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnusis a Past SPL Winner

    Joined:
    Dec 23, 2004
    Messages:
    4,540
    probably the best old gen analysis i've read
  17. Lockeness

    Lockeness (e^(i╥))+1=0

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2009
    Messages:
    307
    Same here. Jorgen is the standard by which I judge my analyses. Anything that he writes is incredibly well done. Crystal_ made some good edits as well.
  18. Crystal_

    Crystal_
    is a Contributor Alumnusis a Past SPL Winner

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2009
    Messages:
    882
    Okay, last GP check implemented, thanks!
    Anyway, I think it'd still be better if someone else gives this a last look, because I didn't implement a few changes that I didn't consider adequate enough (not grammar related, just things that changed the content imo, and were kinda not true or misleading)
  19. sirndpt

    sirndpt
    is an Artist Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2011
    Messages:
    1,124
    c/p (open)
    [Overview]

    <p>It's got a wide attacking movepool. It's tied with Mew for the second-highest Base Stat Total in the game. It's the only fully-evolved Dragon-type in RBY, a type that sounds legendary on its own and that resists the STABs of all three starter Pokemon. It's the final Pokemon used by Lance, the fourth member of the Elite Four. Clearly, Dragonite was intended to be some sort of legendary behemoth, the boss Pokemon to end all boss Pokemon, at least until the player found Mewtwo. However, in competitive usage, Dragonite is more likely to elicit groans and grimaces of irritation rather than the intended screams and wide eyes of terror. This is because Dragonite's power in OU does not derive from Hyper Beam, its massive base 134 Attack, its typing, or its diverse Special movepool. Rather, it's because of an annoying little move that its lowly first-stage evolution, Dratini, knows from the start: Wrap.</p>

    <p>Wrap's mechanics differ drastically in RBY compared to later generations; the move has a mere 15 Base Power, but it prevents the opposing Pokemon from making a move while the Wrap user is locked into this move for two to five turns. Furthermore, the immobilized opponent cannot attack even during the turn the Wrap user switches out, providing a safe entry for another Pokemon. However, unlike in other generations, the opponent might switch out the Pokemon that is incapacitated by Wrap. Dragonite is the best Wrap user in RBY because it, unlike any other RBY Wrap user, also has access to Agility to make it faster than any other Pokemon in the game. If Dragonite gets lucky and hits all of its Wraps, it can totally sweep a team without the opponent even being able to move. This sounds broken, and indeed, some RBY players play with bans on Wrap and all other moves like it (Bind, Clamp, Fire Spin) because of their potential. However, Dragonite might always miss a Wrap or two, leaving it vulnerable to get paralyzed or shellacked by an Ice-type move. It is this unreliability that prevents Dragonite from being considered a staple of RBY OU when Wrap is allowed. When Wrap is not allowed, Dragonite is barely worth mentioning in OU due to its lack of STAB, mediocre Speed, and disastrous 4x weakness to the ubiquitous Ice Beam and Blizzard.</p>

    [SET]
    name: AgiliWrap
    move 1: Agility
    move 2: Wrap
    move 3: Hyper Beam
    move 4: Surf / Blizzard

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Here it is, possibly the most annoying set in all of Pokemon history. It's more than just annoying, however; it's absolutely deadly if luck is on your side. Agility boosts Dragonite's Speed above that of any unboosted Pokemon in the game. It then proceeds to take advantage Wrap's debilitating mechanics by repeatedly using the move to render any switch-in unable to move, while slowly whittling away at the opposing Pokemon's health. Wrap can even be used to immobilize Gengar, who is immune to Normal-type moves, although Gengar is unlike other Wrap victims in that it does not take damage while incapacitated by Wrap. It is, however, not easy to find a good moment to use Agility, due to the prevalence of Ice-type and paralysis-inducing moves in RBY. Switching into the occasional sleeping or frozen Pokemon lets Dragonite set up Agility safely, however. Otherwise, slow Pokemon such as Golem, Rhydon, Snorlax, and Exeggutor that lack Stun Spore are good options to set up into on. Taking a hit from them, however, means that Dragonite is now OHKOed by unSTABed Ice-type attacks.</p>

    <p>Once the opponent's Pokemon has been worn down to low enough health, Dragonite can use one of its other two attacking moves to secure the KO. Hyper Beam is generally the best option, as it is the strongest attack in Dragonite's movepool. Dragonite will usually be able to avoid Hyper Beam's incapacitating side effect as Wrap is meant to first put Pokemon in Hyper Beam's OHKO range. It lacks STAB, but comes from a base 134 Attack stat. Surf is the preferred option in the last slot as it guarantees an OHKO on the Rock / Ground types Golem and Rhydon. Blizzard can be used in its place to heavily damage Golem and Rhydon, but also to give Dragonite its best direct attack to use against Gengar. It also works as an alternative finishing move for Pokemon such as Zapdos and Exeggutor and, unlike Hyper Beam, does not force Dragonite to recharge if it does not OHKO.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>Dragonite is generally saved for a sweep and, as such, appreciates support from teammates that can spread paralysis directly. Not only does paralysis make Dragonite faster than the opponent without it having to use Agility, a full paralysis might also save Dragonite if Wrap misses. Alakazam, Chansey, Starmie, Exeggutor, Slowbro, and Zapdos are all Pokemon that can perform that role excellently. The former options can tank hits from many threats as well, while the latter two provide more offensive pressure. The choices should depend on how offensive you want your team to be, although it should be noted that Alakazam and Slowbro are generally the best options to spread paralysis.</p>

    <p>In addition, Dragonite is able to do more than merely sweep with Wrap; if it gets in on a predicted switch to a slow Pokemon, such as Exeggutor, Snorlax, or Chansey, or on a predicted Earthquake from Rhydon or Golem, it can use Wrap against whatever might decide to switch in. Dragonite can then switch out to a counter, which is guaranteed to take no damage on the switch-in thanks to Wrap's immobilization effect. Dragonite's ability to act as a pivot makes it a decent mid-game partner for heavy-hitters such as Snorlax and Rhydon to let them switch in on paralyzed foes with impunity. Moreover, as Wrap can still immobilize Gengar, hard-hitters such as Snorlax, Rhydon, Golem, and Tauros also synergize well with Dragonite in this regard. If Gengar switches into Wrap, you can immediately go to a powerful sweeper without taking damage thanks to Wrap's mechanics. Earthquake will generally scare Gengar out and give Dragonite the possibility of punishing whatever your opponent switches in.</p>

    [Other Options]

    <p>Dragonite makes good use of Thunderbolt to hit Cloyster hard and dish out decent damage against Lapras on the switch, both of which can scare Dragonite out with the threat of an OHKO with Blizzard. Thunder Wave can be useful against switch-ins that are typically difficult to paralyze, such as Gengar and Starmie, that Dragonite is bound to see. Body Slam blends damage with paralysis chance if you don't want to give up an attacking move for paralysis. Double-Edge is slightly stronger than Body Slam, but lacks the paralysis chance and causes recoil damage. As finisher moves, both options have an advantage over Hyper Beam by not having to recharge if the opposing Pokemon is not KOed; the lower Base Power makes these moves unfavorable choices, however.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>Gengar is the chief check as it's immune to Wrap and takes a pittance from any of Dragonite's other options. It doesn't really accomplish much against Dragonite, though , but will generally outlast non-Blizzard Dragonite one-on-one in a battle between unSTABed special attacks. Powerful Blizzard users, such as Lapras, Cloyster, Articuno, and to an extent, Jynx, can all scare Dragonite out with the threat of an OHKO. The former three are very physically bulky and will be able to take several hits before dying, which makes it all the more likely that Wrap will miss at some point. Exeggutor and especially Slowbro are also very bulky and can threaten Dragonite with paralysis, but apart from that, they won't generally be able to handle Dragonite on their own. Chansey and Starmie are resilient with their instant recovery and usually carry Ice moves that can 2HKO Dragonite. These two can also paralyze Dragonite with Thunder Wave and force it to risk full paralysis in addition to Wrap misses. Note that Dragonite can use Agility again to completely ignore the Speed reduction from paralysis and resume being faster than all of your Pokemon. On the other hand, however, as full paralyses can also occur in the middle of a Wrap sequence, paralysis will severely limit Dragonite's potential. Its often even advised to go for the guaranteed paralysis with Thunder Wave instead of using an unSTABed Ice-move that will not OHKO.</p>

    <p> Any Pokemon that has enough health to take Dragonite's Hyper Beam can switch in to this predicted finishing move to cripple or KO Dragonite. When the opposing Pokemon is in KO range from Hyper Beam, the Dragonite user is likely to use it instead of Wrap to avoid the possibility of an untimely Wrap miss. Punishing a predicted Hyper Beam could give you the possibility of paralyzing or KOing Dragonite. However, proper prediction is required as Dragonite could continue using Wrap, which by itself still has a high success rate against the weakened opponent. Pokemon that resist Normal-type moves, such as Golem and Rhydon, might even be surprised by Surf, which will OHKO them.</p>

    <p>It's important to note that, if given the chance, using the turn Dragonite uses Agility to cripple it is crucial. Even if you can only land one move that won't do much to Dragonite, such as Body Slam or Psychic, it might still be very rewarding later on, as it will increase the chances of any Ice-type move OHKOing Dragonite. In addition, Body Slam might also score paralysis, which will often ruins Dragonite's ability to effectively sweep.</p>

    <p>If all else fails, you can try to stall it out of Wrap PP if you can count carefully to 32. Wrap is very weak and locks Dragonite into Wrap if it chooses to stay in, regardless of whether you choose to switch or stay in yourself. Thus, you can repeatedly switch out to force Dragonite to use more turns which read "Dragonite used Wrap!" and that therefore cost PP as opposed to the "Its attack continues!" turns that do not use PP. However, if you miscount and switch out after Dragonite has used its last Wrap PP, Dragonite will still be forced to use Wrap PP, but instead of forcing Dragonite to use Struggle, RBY glitches and rolls Wrap's PP counter up to 63 to allow it to use Wrap again, thereby rendering your stall for naught. This strategy works more effectively if you have Golem or Rhydon on your team, as you will otherwise have to sacrifice at least one Pokemon before Wrap runs out of PP.</p>
  20. NixHex

    NixHex what is béisbol
    is a member of the Site Staffis a Forum Moderatoris a Pokemon Researcheris a Contributor to Smogonis a Battle Server Moderator
    Moderator

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    All right, I mentioned this in the Exeggutor thread: wrapper, sleeper, etc. are preferred over wrap-user, sleep-inducer, etc. in RBY/GSC analyses.
  21. Crystal_

    Crystal_
    is a Contributor Alumnusis a Past SPL Winner

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    okay sirndpt check implemented, thanks!

    Anyway, a few things:

    kept 2-5 instead of two to five, and kept wrapper instead of wrap user, afterall the ohter two gp checks kep them that way... someone confirm this please.

    Also, i'm feeling some other stuff are just "flair" changes. for example since->as and may->might...
  22. Oglemi

    Oglemi I love you wonderful Minun-Kun!
    is a Tournament Directoris a member of the Site Staffis a Community Contributoris a Pokemon Researcheris a Contributor to Smogonis a Smogon Media Contributoris an Administratoris a Tiering Contributor Alumnus
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