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Drapion (BW2 Revamp) (Skeleton) (QC 0/3)

Discussion in 'Locked / Outdated Analyses' started by Psylink, Sep 15, 2013.

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Should Substitute + 3 Attacks or SubSD be added to the analysis?

  1. Subsitute + 3 Attacks

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  2. SubSD

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  3. Both

    7.7%
  4. Neither

    92.3%
  1. Psylink

    Psylink

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    Drapion (BW2 Revamp)
    QC Checks: 0/3
    GP Checks: 0/2

    [​IMG]

    Hello!
    Drapion is a bit outdated on the site, and I'm making a few tweaks of my own. I feel the old Drapion analysis is too overhyped? Damn, times have changed. Here it is!

    [Overview]

    • Unique typing that gives it unique traits.
    • Solid support movepool.
    • While there are plenty of Poison-types, a teammate can handle these far easier than handling Nidoqueen ever was.
    • Heavy competition from Spiritomb and Absol in the physical sweeping dpeartment, and Amoonguss and Roselia in the walling area, but has just enough differences, such as a lack of a Fighting weakness.
    • Overall outclassed, but still viable in RU.

    [Set]
    name: Specially Defensive
    move 1: Toxic Spikes
    move 2: Crunch
    move 3: Whirlwind
    move 4: Taunt
    item: Black Sludge
    ability: Battle Armor
    nature: Careful
    evs: 248 HP / 244 SpD / 16 Spe

    [Set Comments]
    • Blah, it's a random STAB! But really, it's there so it isn't Taunt bait. Yeah.
    • The Taunt + Whirlwind combonation is potent: Shutting down stallers and getting them out.
    • There are plenty of Poison-types in RU, but most are covered by a teammate, so Drapion is free to set up his Toxic Spikes.
    • Despite Drapion's bad specially defensive stats, it's typing and movepool make it viable.
    • Capable of checking a wide variety of miscellanious (did I spell that right?) threats such as Grass- and Psychic-types, absorbing stall's Toxic Spikes, as well as shutting down stallers. Despite not doing this as well as some less versatile threats such as Entei and Absol, the stallbreaking aspect is the key here, as well as being a wall.
    [Additional Comments]
    • Mostly standard EVs for maximum special walling, except for 16 Spe EVs to outspeed and taunt Omastar and Crawdaunt from using Shell Smash and Dragon Dance respectively, as well as Support Omastar's Stealth Rock and Spikes from going up on your side of the field.
    • Battle Armor is used because Drapion isn't trying to kill here, it's walling, and it's great not having to worry about crits isn't it?
    • Black Sludge is Drapion's only form of recovery, so Wish support from the likes of Alomomola and Clefable is highly appreciated. Additionally, Clefable can set up Stealth Rocks so Drapion can abuse them with Whirlwind. Drapion also does a favor for them by potentally removing a moveslot due to it's Toxic Spikes. Alomomola particularly loves Drapion due to Drapion's Grass resist, creating a dangerous defensive core viable on stall teams.
    • Hazards for phazing fun (use Steelix, Qwilfish, Ferroseed, etc). Also, if you're using Qwilfish, the Grass resist is nice.
    • RestTalk could be used, but 4MSS.
    [Set]

    name: Bulky Swords Dance
    move 1: Swords Dance
    move 2: Taunt
    move 3: Crunch
    move 4: Earthquake
    item: Black Sludge / Lum Berry
    ability: Sniper
    nature: Jolly
    evs: 140 HP / 144 Atk / 224 Spe

    [Set Comments]
    • Unique compared to other physical Dark-types due to a very nice 90 Speed, as well as Taunt to force switches to set up Swords Dance and take care of stally Pokemon like Sigilyph.
    • Can take the various Toxics of RU from the likes of Slowking.
    • Crunch is the best option it has for a STAB move.
    • Earthquake hits the targets Crunch doesn't, such as Steel-types such as Steelix.
    • For lack of power and coverage, Drapion runs Taunt for ease of setup and stallbreaking in general, alongside carving itself a niche, albeit small.
    • This set is more suited to slower teams that have trouble with stall. It is highly advised you don't run this on any other types of teams due to Drapion needing 2 boosts to actually start hurting stuff, and despite it's HP investment, 110 Defense, Taunt, and Black Sludge, it's still hard to set up due to Drapion's crippling Ground-weakness.
    [Additional Comments]
    • If need be, Lum Berry can be run to get past pesky status.
    • 140 HP lets Drapion survive Rotom-C's Leaf Storm or Volt Switch after Stealth Rock, and the rest are invested into Attack and Speed for obvious reasons.
    • Lilligant, and Moltres, and Speed tying with other base 95 speed Pokemon.
    • Sniper is the best choice for this set, as it looks to dish big hits, not take them.
    • An offensive special based partner that hits all the things Drapion can't deal with, such as Sceptile or Lilligant creates an offensive core that puts lots of pressure on the opponent's team if it isn't well constructed.
    • Bulky Rotom takes care of Escavalier and Poliwrath.
    • Capable of taking unboosted Earthquakes from the likes of Life Orb Tauros and Steelix and retaliate with a Crunch or Earthquake. You won't die to Life Orb due to the complete lack of it either, which is very useful for a physical sweeper.
    [Other Options]
    • All-Out-Attacker (Choice Band or Life Orb)
    • Choice Scarf
    • Agility
    • Mono attacking RestTalk/SD/Crunch
    • Night Slash/Cross Poison )
    • Rain/Sun Setter
    • Torment for the SpD set
    • Rock Slide and Fire Fang
    [Checks and Counters]
    • Poliwrath
    • Rhydon
    • Steelix
    • Ferroseed
    • Escavalier
    • Tangrowth
    • Bouffalant
    • Druddigon
    • Aerodactyl
    • Archeops
    [End]

    That's all! Feel free to nitpick, but be quick, we only have a month!:D
    Last edited: Oct 1, 2013
  2. atomicllamas

    atomicllamas NIPPLE BLADES OF FURY
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    Hey, I am not QC, so feel free to wait to have this confirmed first, but Specially defensive should have t-spikes listed as the primary 2nd move, as poison jab lacks coverage and is pretty pitiful off of an uninvested base 90 attack stat. Sure many poison types are prevalent in the tier, but since you are a defensive mon you may outlast their poison type, and I'd rather have the situational use of t-spikes than the non-existent use of poison jab.

    I also think that SpD might need to be higher in the set order, as it faces a lot of competition from other swords dancers and CB/pursuit users. If QC would confirm or deny my suggestions that would be cool.
  3. Worldtour

    Worldtour aka Swamp-Rocket
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    Psylink

    Substitute + 3 Attacks and SubSD aren't really very good and I wouldn't implement either set. Note that this is a rather lengthy check, so if you have any questions feel free to ask me (or of course if another QC member disagrees they can point that out too)

    [Overview]
    • Your overview majorly oversells Drapion. A big reason why Drapion is getting a revamp is because it is not longer that great of a Pokemon.
    • Mention that it isn't very strong thanks to a not very high attack and an arsenal of not very strong moves.
    • It's really not one of the "better Pursuit users in the tier" anymore. It does have a niche of being the fastest though.
    • I feel like the overview in this skeleton has a lot of fluff to be honest. You mention its versatality a lot when in reality its not really needed to mention. Just overall summarize: it has a unique typing that gives it a bunch of unique traits, it has a good speed stat, its weak, and it gets heavy competition. That's really all you need to be honest.
    Move the Specially Defensive set to the first slot and then...

    [Specially Defensive]

    Change the set to this please:

    name: Specially Defensive
    move 1: Toxic Spikes
    move 2: Crunch
    move 3: Whirlwind
    move 4: Taunt
    item: Black Sludge
    ability: Battle Armor
    nature: Careful
    evs: 248 HP / 244 SpD / 16 Spe

    This is the best thing Drapion can do in the current metagame. The reason the current analysis doesn't have Toxic Spikes on it is because the last revamp happened when Nidoqueen was still in the tier, and that was when Poison-types were literally everywhere. Now that Nidoqueen is done and Toxic Spikes is viable once again, Drapion is probably one of the best setters of Toxic Spikes in the metagame.
    • Remove Whimsicott. The fact that you have it as a viable thing is almost concerning tbh
    • Add that it also checks Lilligant, Uxie, and special attacking Sceptiles in general (SubSeed Sceptile isn't as good/common as other special attacking Sceptile anyway)
    • Remove Audino, its pretty close to unviable.
    • Due to Toxic Spikes, partners that can take down Amoonguss and Qwilfish (a Psychic-type such as Sigilyph) and a spinblocking partner (such as Spiritomb or Misdreavus) would be good partners to ensure that Toxic Spikes stays up.
    • Rephrase this to something along the lines of that it takes on Grass attacks very well, and that additional hazards make Whirlwind much more potent in general.
    • Poison Jab into AC because its not on the main set. Also add RestTalk to AC in order to have Drapion have a form of recovery and can work well as a sleep absorver, but mention that Drapion would then have 4MSS if it goes this route.
    [Swords Dance]
    • Its real niche over other Dark-types (namely Absol) is actually its speed, not Taunt, along with the resistances it gets. Absol gets Taunt too. However, you need to mention that it is much weaker than your typical Swords Dance sweeper.
    • Remove Cross Poison. Poison Jab is just... better. I don't really want to encourage crits in AC :/
    • IMO the main reason why the Lum Berry is useful is because a lot of the Pokemon Drapion usually tries to set up on have Will-O-Wisp or Thunder Wave (looking at you Slowking/Uxie/Ghost-types). Scald burns are relavent for Slowking, but Body Slam is extremely rare.
    • Black Sludge into AC would be cool, as the gradual recovery has def. helped me before.
    • I'd remove Pursuit, Drapion doesn't have time to do something silly like that.
    • Add bulky Rotom to partners as it beats two of Drapions counters: Poliwrath and Escavalier.
    • Mention WHICH Spikes user synergies with it well. The current analysis has Roselia and since it beats Poliwrath and Rhydon that's a good thing.
    [Physical Attacker]
    • Rename it to "all-out attacker" because the other sets are physical attackers too.
    • Pursuit is really the most important move on this set. Actually, to be fair, I think the set that is on site right now is still the best for Drapion. Sleep Talk could be AC though, as I will admit its typing does help combat sleep users, but I think its other moves are too valuable.
    • Lum Berry could also be AC, as a lot of the Pokemon it will try to trap know Will-O-Wisp which absolutely shuts down Drapion.
    • Mention more Fighting-type partners other than Hitmonchan. A lot of them, Like Hitmonlee and Hariyama, really do like that Pursuit support. Also mention that they can break through Rock- and Steel-types, general annoyances for Drapion.
    • Tangrowth walls most Aerodactyl, Steelix, Rhydon to an extent, Poliwrath, and can dispatch of Escavalier with a Hidden Power Fire, so I'd add it to teammates.
    [Other Options]
    • Does anything in the last slot actually hit anything important? I kinda doubt it other than Rock Slide which I guess can just give the big ol' finger to Moltres. As a result I'd remove everything except for Rock Slide in that last bit.
    • Add Fire Fang because nobody likes Escavalier and I guess Ferroseed.
    [Checks And Counters]
    • Move Tangrowth down a few notches. Unless it has Earthquake, it pretty much loses to Drapion because so many of them use Taunt.
    • Gallade is 2HKOed by almost everything while simultaneously being outsped. Its not worth the justified boost.
    Again, if you have any questions, feel free to ask.
  4. Psylink

    Psylink

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    Thanks guys, that's a LOT of edits and it's a bit late for all this, so I'll implement tommorow afternoon sometime.
  5. Hot N Cold

    Hot N Cold PLUTO
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    Slash Protect with Taunt imo, so first Protect > then Taunt.

    Works very well honestly, I found Taunt a waste a big part of the time because slow things can handle very well this Drapion anyways like Steelix or Rhydon.

    Protect helps against a lot of case, first at all Drapion lacks to recovery so with Spikes down too fast, Protect allows to beat easier and keep healthy Drapion against a lot of things like Sceptile Focus Blast, some Lilligant heavy variants, Mesprit Offensive, Sigy, OTR Slowking etc
    Also helps to scout with Protect some hard physical hitters like Entei or Escavalier so to scout the move and recover a bit with Leftovers, this works especially well too with Toxic Spikes.

    EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SDef And this ev spread over the current, I dont find necessary the speed creep unless with Taunt so just mention this on the AC for Spikes users / SS Omastar / Spiritomb.


    This set Specially Defensive deserved first set imo
  6. EonX

    EonX @TheEonX
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    Ok, I'll chime in with my thoughts (though a lot has been covered already)

    Set order should be Specially Defensive --> Swords Dance --> All-out Attacker (renamed Physical Attacker set)

    Also, implement the EV spread change Hot N Cold suggested. Speed creep isn't really smiled upon in analyses on-site, so generally steer clear of this. Also, do slash Protect with Taunt on the SpDef set. Protect is useful for any defensive Pokemon that lacks reliable recovery. Otherwise, everything I have to say has already been mentioned by S-R and HnC.
  7. Worldtour

    Worldtour aka Swamp-Rocket
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    EonX- Hot N Cold

    16 speed EVs on Drapion is is not speed creeping. Outspeeding something with absolute maximum speed is an example of something that isn't speed creeping because it ensures you outspeed literally every Crawdaunt and Omastar in existence. Taunting one of these before they set up is extremely important. Think of it sort of how Emboar runs 20 speed EVs to catch Lanturn. Out speeding something like "104 EV Uxie" would be speed creeping, but when it is 252+ that you are trying to get that's perfectly fine.
  8. DittoCrow

    DittoCrow
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    Is the All-out Attacker set good anymore? There are so many things that can even deal with a +2 Drapion now, I don't really see how a 4 attacks set can be effective.

    Also adding onto Swamp-Rocket's check, the skeleton doesn't really show that you have a ton of experience with Drapion (also the poll). It really became a pretty bad Pokemon to use and you are definitely overselling it right now, some examples being "three different type killers in one set!" and "and several SubSeeders in the metagame, notably Sceptile and Whimsicott." The latter example definitely does concern me because SubSeed Pokemon are almost nonexistent and the fact that you mentioned one of the worst sets in RU doesn't really display the level of knowledge we're looking for in these revamps. This is a good start, but if the revised skeleton doesn't show that you have a full grasp on Drapion's abilities it might have to be reassigned.
  9. ScraftyIsTheBest

    ScraftyIsTheBest Screw Water Druddigon
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    Yeah I'm honestly not convinced that All-Out Attacker even works anymore, I think it's OO material at best, feel free disagree.

    Yeah you really need to tone down the analysis, this needs to be given in a tone that shows that Drapion really struggles to do well in RU.
  10. Psylink

    Psylink

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    yowza i was gone! implementing...

    edit 1: dammit that's twice I've pressed cancel rather than save.

    edit 2: whew it saved! that's swamp rocket's changes! moving forward...

    edit 3: there was no more lol, but I agree w/ s-r because if you run taunt it can stop a sweep! it's rather niche, so should I consider moving it to ac? and there are so many edits this post it's probably considered a quad-post. i do that a lot, sorry.
    Last edited: Sep 19, 2013
  11. Worldtour

    Worldtour aka Swamp-Rocket
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    OK after some discussion with some of QC, please change the Swords Dance set to this.

    [SET]
    name: Swords Dance
    move 1: Swords Dance
    move 2: Taunt
    move 3: Crunch
    move 4: Earthquake
    item: Black Sludge / Lum Berry
    nature: Jolly
    evs: 140 HP / 144 Atk / 224 Spe

    Life Orb + Swords Dance Drapion kinda blows since it is still really weak. Taunt + Swords Dance makes it a pretty good stallbreaker despite its lack of power, and with Black Sludge you can actually take advantage of its decent bulk and attempt to set up two Swords Dances (the number it needs to actually start hurting other Pokemon), and Lum Berry protects you from scald burns. It can set up on the likes of bulky Rotom, Slowking, Alomomola, Roselia, Uxie, and Amoonguss, and a Toxic immunity also helps it perform against stall teams. It also is a bonus that Drapion is capable of taking unSTABbed Earthquakes (such as LO Tauros) and Earthquakes from Steelix, and it won't die afterward due to Life Orb recoil.

    EVs outspeed Rotom (nothing really hits 95 base speed anymore) and HP allows it to avoid the 2HKO from Rotom-C's Leaf Storm after Stealth Rock, not accounting for the special defense drop (on that note, also Volt Switch because it does the same damage)

    Life Orb + full offensive EVs could be mentioned in AC but I don't think Life Orb Drapion is very good - its much better suited to be a stallbreaker than an offensive Pokemon.
  12. Psylink

    Psylink

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    I have made the changes, and I felt there was enough changes to the set to call it "Bulky Swords Dance". Does that sound reasonable?
  13. Psylink

    Psylink

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    So, in 2 weeks X and Y is coming out. I need this thread to get more attention due to the release, because as any sensible player would agree with me here, I don't want to be finishing last generation's analysis on a mostly outclassed Pokemon.

    I'm mentioning some names to make sure these people know this post is here.

    Swamp-Rocket
    Molk
    DittoCrow
    august

    That should be enough to get the ball rolling again.
  14. Worldtour

    Worldtour aka Swamp-Rocket
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    Sorry Psylink

    - In the first set describe what it actually checks.
    - pursuit is now OO so that overview bit is moot.
    - mention mola likes the grass resist drap provides
    - SD avoids the 2HKO from Rotom-C after Stealth Rock, not just getting killed.
    - don't mention hazards if they don't obtain any specific KOs
    - how do grasses synergies well with Drapion? Explain why.
    - Amoonguss and Roselia aren't toxic users they are mainly weak Pokemon that can't hit it hard at all.

    Add and I'll stamp ASAP
  15. Psylink

    Psylink

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    All changes made.
  16. DittoCrow

    DittoCrow
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    My opinions on the overview and first set:

    20:13 DittoCrow i would probably delete all of the points in the overview
    20:14 DittoCrow it's typing is meh
    20:14 DittoCrow support movepool, well he only has 3 good support moves i think
    20:14 DittoCrow fastest pursuit doesn't really matter imo
    20:14 DittoCrow stuff about nidoqueen definitely needs to be removed
    20:14 DittoCrow so those 2 [points] should not be mentioned in the overview
    20:14 DittoCrow heavy competition with absol and tomb
    20:15 DittoCrow meh i guess but drapion should be used for the tspikes role not pursuit trapping
    20:15 Molk and yeah fast pursuit isn't that relevant when none of the sets posted use it
    20:15 DittoCrow so he's not even mentioning drap's main role
    20:15 DittoCrow i guess the last bullet is ok but literally 328932489732 analyses say something like that
    20:15 DittoCrow "despite flaws... x should still be considered as a threat"
    20:16 DittoCrow moving on to spdef
    20:16 DittoCrow "Blah, it's a random STAB! Woo..."
    20:16 DittoCrow no idea what that means
    20:16 Molk Unique compared to other physical Dark-types due to a very nice 90 Speed, as well as Taunt to force switches to set up Sword s Dance and take care of stally Pokemon like Sigilyph.
    20:16 DittoCrow yeah the set comments do not explain at all why to use drapion and when to use it for tspikes
    20:16 Molk it has base 95 not 90
    20:17 DittoCrow based on the overview and 1st set i would reject it

    I think you've been using the wrong Drapion set(s). You definitely need to revise this again. Think along the lines of: "Drapion is outclassed, so I need to explain when the reader would use it and why." My last post here still applies to this skeleton so post again when you revise it! Feel free to disagree though.
  17. Psylink

    Psylink

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    To be frank, that was very off-putting, motivation-wise (no offense). I'm sure I'll come back next week and forget about that converstation and all will be fine and dandy.
  18. DittoCrow

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    Honestly that's just a QC check in IRC convo form. A bulleted list would have said the same thing like "remove x add y." My previous post basically said the same thing in general terms xD. Please try to finish the skeleton in 2-3 days especially because of what you said in post #13.
  19. Psylink

    Psylink

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    Sorry for my absence. As anyone would, I feel that I'm losing interest in this project, and due to my inexperience, I feel it would be wise to reassign this project to someone who is more capable than I am. Reasons:

    1. X/Y Release
    2. Lack of interest
    3. Personal reasons

    I'm very sorry this had to happen. Thanks for the oppurtunity, though!
  20. Worldtour

    Worldtour aka Swamp-Rocket
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