1. New to the forums? Check out our Mentorship Program!
    Our mentors will answer your questions and help you become a part of the community!
  2. Welcome to Smogon Forums! Please take a minute to read the rules.

Dream Country

Discussion in 'BW OU Teams' started by Slantt, Apr 28, 2012.

  1. Slantt

    Slantt

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2012
    Messages:
    2
    DREAM COUNTRY


    Hi guys. This is my first team posted to Smogon, although I have laddered on the servers and lurked on the forums for quite awhile. This team peaked around #30 on Smogon DW Ladder (I forget my exact rank), which while not pants shittingly good, I think is still pretty decent.

    The title is taken on a whim, from a story arc in the Sandman comics. Give them a read if you haven't yet!

    INTRO/TEAM AT A GLANCE
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    What if I could switch in Chandelure or Breloom for free using volt turn? This is the entire principle that my team is based on. Chandelure and Breloom are such powerhouses in the metagame - Chandelure's ability and sky-high special attack practically guarantees a KO everytime its switched in, while Breloom needs just a single turn to set up before taking a huge dump on the opposing team. The only weaknesses for these pokemon are their relative frailty, meaning that they can usually only be safely switched in after another team member dies, or in Chandelure's case, bringing it in on a predicted fighting move. But this problem is ELIMINATED with volt turn, giving me endless opportunities to switch in one of these two menaces unscathed and being a pain in the ass to my opponent.

    TEAM IN DETAIL:

    [​IMG]
    Chandelure (M) @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Shadow Tag
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Overheat
    - Shadow Ball
    - Hidden Power [Ice]
    - Energy Ball

    Nothing much to say, everyone on the DW ladder is familiar with this guy. Basically nothing is safe from Chandelure besides pink blobs, as STAB overheat takes a big chunk out of everything, and the other moves provide coverage that is only resisted by a handful of pokemon. This guy nets me multiple kills each match unless I do something stupid. Occasionally Chandelure will double as a spin blocker for me, but usually I will let the opponent spin away hazards since if I mispredict and let Chandy die, half of my offensive presence is gone. HP Ice is invaluable as it gives me a good answer to dragon types, and also kicks Gliscor's ass, who would otherwise walk all over this team. Energy ball is for coverage (sup Gastrodon), while Shadow ball is a nice spammable attack late game.

    [​IMG]
    Breloom (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Technician
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
    Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
    - Substitute
    - Spore
    - Mach Punch
    - Bullet Seed

    I was kind of on the fence about technician Breloom, but boy was I wrong. Yeah, poison heal is awesome and protects from status yadda yadda, but technician just turns Breloom into an absolute offensive killer. Give it one turn to set up (hi walls!) and it will go on a fucking rampage. Its mediocre speed is kind of a letdown, but usually in matches Breloom will be behind a sub if it's against something that outspeeds it. Breloom's bullet seed decimates most pokemon on rain teams, while on sand teams, Breloom's mach punch checks Tyranitar and Excadrill. Leftovers on this guy to give it more survivability - the extra power from life orb is not needed as I want to keep it alive as long as possible.

    [​IMG]
    Scizor (F) @ Choice Band
    Trait: Technician
    EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 SDef
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - Bullet Punch
    - U-turn
    - Superpower
    - Pursuit

    Your basic CB Scizor and the first part of my volt-turn core, unchanged from diamond/pearl. What can I say about him that hasn't been said before? It makes for a fantastic pivot, boasting resistances to 10 of the 17 types. In particular, it is invaluable in tanking outrages, and in a pinch it can also take a draco meteor too if its at full health. Most of the time I am either U-turning or bullet punching - I only use Superpower or pursuit on rare occasions (to trap fleeing Latios/latias/choice scarfed chandelure, or if Blissey is the last pokemon for example). Scizor and Breloom make a fantastic late-game cleaning duo, with technician boosted bullet punch and mach punch doing ridiculous amounts of damage.

    [​IMG]
    Chansey (F) @ Eviolite
    Trait: Natural Cure
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Spd
    Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
    - Stealth Rock
    - Seismic Toss
    - Softboiled
    - Wish

    The glue to my team, whenever I think a high-powered attack is coming my way 90% of the time I switch to Chansey. It is my wall for both physical and special attacks, barring fighting moves which are taken with ease by both Xatu and Chandelure. With its beastly bulkiness, it is almost guaranteed to have a chance at some point during the game to set up stealth rocks for me, which are important since my volt turn strategy causes lots of switches. Softboiled and seismic toss are self-explanatory, while wish gives me a chance to keep the rest of my team members healthy. I am too lazy to do damage calcs, but eviolite chansey is roughly 100000000x bulkier than its evolution Blissey (scientifically speaking, a metric shit ton bulkier), and if played properly, just does not die. I wish I could fit in toxic somewhere to increase its offensive presence and maybe deal with last pokemon stat uppers though. One last thing - Chansey is usually my #1 switch in to Chandelure. If its choice scarfed, fine, but if its the calm mind variant then I am completely fucked.

    [​IMG]
    Xatu (F) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Magic Bounce
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SAtk
    Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
    - Reflect
    - Roost
    - U-turn
    - Psychic

    Dopeyness aside, Xatu counters a whole slew of random pokemon, including (but not limited to), Breloom, Ferrothorn, Forretress, etc. In addition, its 4x fighting resistance makes it a perfect switch in to fighting attacks aimed at Chansey. A bit about how I play with Xatu: My first priority is to keep hazards off my side - if I deem it necessary, I will sacrifice Xatu to achieve that. This means for example, that against lead Tyranitar, I will always switch in Xatu to reflect back stealth rock. If Tyranitar uses crunch instead and KOs Xatu, I can switch in Scizor and nab momentum.

    If I play correctly, Xatu will keep hazards off my side of the team and still be in commission during midgame. Once that happens, its u-turn works in tandem with Scizor and Rotom, slowly chipping off my enemies health or giving Breloom or Chandelure a free switch in. In particular, u-turn also allows me to escape enemy Chandelure that think they can trap Xatu and nab a quick KO off shadow ball. Reflect is indispensable for Xatu, enhancing its survivability and allowing it to wall tons of physical pokemon (it even does fine against lead Tyranitar behind a reflect!). Psychic is purely to deal damage and takes a chunk out of some random pokemon. I primarily use it to deal with enemy Conkeldurr.

    I have tried using a rapid spinner in Xatu's place, but it did not meet my expectations and did not fit into the overall offensive playstyle of the team. First, I need u-turn to keep momentum, which all rapid spinners lack, and second I don't have a turn to waste rapid spinning when I could be doing something else.

    [​IMG]
    Rotom-W @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Volt Switch
    - Hydro Pump
    - Trick
    - Sunny Day

    My ace in the hole. Nobody expects this moveset, and to be honest maybe its because its a little dumb, but I think the surprise factor more than makes up for it. Volt switch is obvious and completes my volt-turn core. Hydro miss I barely ever use, usually only when I predict that a electric immunity is switching in to take my volt switch. Trick is indispensable, and helps me take out threats that would otherwise kick my ass (stat uppers such as CM Keldeo come to mind). Finally, sunny day is what makes this set unique. Usually my opponent will see that I don't have a weather inducer and sacrifice their own, only for me to take away their weather with sunny day afterwards. With rotom's fantastic set of resistances and (sometimes) blazing speed thanks to his scarf, it can usually find an opportunity to change the weather. Unfortunately against sunny day teams this trick doesn't work, but the upper echelons of the DW ladder usually run sandstorm and rain. This guy is ALWAYS my lead.


    THREAT LIST:


    Maybe I'll go through a complete threat list when I have time, but for now I'll just list out the problem pokemon:

    DD Dragonite: In order to counter this badass, I have to a) break its multiscale, either with U-turn, volt switch, or SR, b) switch in Chandelure and hope it's not a CB variant, and c) risk the speed tie to take it out with HP ice. Sometimes HP ice doesn't KO bulkier versions, meaning I have to revenge with Scizor's bullet punch. I can also trick scarf onto him, although if it runs substitute I am boned.

    Chandelure: Breloom, Scizor, and Xatu are easily taken out by this guy, while Chansey is taken out by CM versions. If I see enemy Chandelure on team preview, I play very cautiously, as my only hope is to catch Chandelure on the switch with u-turn. Luckily CS versions are worn down by stealth rock, which Chansey sets up easily and 90% of all the Chandelures I've seen run scarf.

    Keldeo: CM versions are "countered" by tricking Rotom's scarf onto them. If that doesn't work I am fucked since water/fighting takes a big chunk out of everything. If I am backed up against a wall, I can take it out with a combination of Rotom's volt switch, chandelure's energy ball, and mach punch Breloom, but obviously if I'm sacrificing 2 or 3 pokemon to KO this guy, it does not fit under the definition of "counter".

    Morning sun volcarona: Usually I bring in Chansey against Volcarona. Without morning sun, Chansey narrowly beats it. If it does carry morning sun though, it can easily continue boosting and by the time I figure out it is a morning sun variant it is too late to disable it by tricking a scarf onto it.


    CONCLUSION

    I'm really proud of this team, and I think the premise behind it is very powerful. This team is played very offensively with the exception of Xatu and Chansey. Roughly, the gameplan is as follows: In the early stages of the match, I try to set up Stealth rock and keep enemy hazards off my side of the field. In mid game, I volt turn to slowly whittle down my opponent's pokemon, although if there is a chance to switch in Breloom or Chandelure, I usually go for it as usually it means that I can take out a pokemon or two and put my opponent too far behind to catch up. Finally in late game, I attempt to sweep, depending on who is left. This is not a problem, as 4 of my 6 pokemon can function as late-game cleaners. CS Rotom and Chandelure naturally have high speed and spatk, while Breloom and Scizor can put severe hurt on the opponent with their technician boosted STAB priority moves.

    Finally as a side note, it is usually not the end of the world if the opponent manages to get a few entry hazards up: 3 of my pokemon are immune to toxic spikes, 2 are immune to spikes, and stealth rock is super effective on 2 of my pokemon. However I would like to disregard Chandelure in these calculations. Yeah its opportunities to switch in become more limited, but the way I play it, I only switch in Chandelure if it is for free and if it is guaranteed to take out the opposing pokemon. If I really get the opportunity to only switch in 3-4 times, that's ok because it means that I'm taking out 3-4 of the opponent's pokemon putting me in the lead anyways.

    That being said, this team does have definite problems. In addition to the threats I covered above, I find sometimes that the team is too reliant on prediction (read: luck). Feel free to suggest any changes you want, in keeping with the theme of the team. I would love to tinker with it more. That's it, and thanks for reading!
  2. Smilodon

    Smilodon

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2012
    Messages:
    75
    Nice team, cover well many threats.
    But I think you start to have real problems if Chandelure dies. So SR could be really annoying if you don't predict them.
    I noticed you said " First, I need u-turn to keep momentum, which all rapid spinners lack", which is exact, but maybe volt-switch foretress could do the job ? Also able to use SR if you want to give another attack to Chansey (heal bell ?), or spikes/T-spikes that can be useful.
    You can't just switch Xatu for that one, unless you want a triple fire weakness. But maybe you could try to see if he can fit anyway.
  3. Slantt

    Slantt

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2012
    Messages:
    2
    Thanks for the rate, Smilodon! But I have reservations about Forretress. Replacing Xatu with it would admittedly ease my prediction while keeping the volt-switching theme (to be honest I completely forgot about this guy, thanks for correcting me). But the type synergy as you pointed out isn't ideal, as that would make half of my team weak to fire. Also it would leave me completely vulnerable to spore/sleep powder users as well as Conkeldurr, both of which Xatu covers.
  4. Ningildo

    Ningildo

    Joined:
    May 3, 2011
    Messages:
    759
    Since you left at the best of times (i.e. while I was discussing the team) on IRC, I saved the log as I'm tired and not going to type the whole thing over in a nice forum reply format. At least not now...
    Show Hide
    01:39 Ningildo Well, Chandy is the biggest menace to the team
    01:39 Ningildo And DDnite is a bit less seen
    01:39 Ningildo so not much worry there
    01:40 Ningildo what's more
    01:40 Ningildo Most are Adamant for the power
    01:40 Ningildo I can imagine it being Jolly just for Chandy
    01:40 Ningildo now what to do...
    01:41 Ningildo This is a team that relies on offense and stuff
    01:41 Ningildo Thus Chansey doesn't really fit the criteria
    01:42 Ningildo the moment it comes in is also the moment all momentum is gone.
    01:42 Rewer use sd > sub on loom
    01:42 Rewer its better
    01:42 Ningildo idk
    01:43 Ningildo Sporing a Chandy behind the sub is nice
    01:43 Ningildo But why Jolly?
    01:43 Ningildo There's like no reason to run it
    01:43 Ningildo Sub already protects
    01:43 Ningildo against rk attempts
    01:44 Ningildo You have Mach Punch on top to deter those anyway
    01:44 Ningildo it seems really out of place
    01:45 Ningildo My guess is to use something like Deoxys-S for SR/Spikes
    01:46 Ningildo over Chansey
    01:46 Ningildo because if you try to use a wall to catch slack on offensive teams...
    01:46 Ningildo then you're not playing offense
    01:48 Ningildo After Deoxys-S goes down, just Volt-Turn
    01:48 Ningildo Changing moves when neccesary
    01:48 Ningildo etc
    01:48 Ningildo Pretty bog standard
    01:49 Ningildo but that's the best way to utilize Volt-Turn
    01:49 Ningildo often chandy can come in and do stuff
    01:49 Ningildo same for loom
    01:49 Ningildo And the guy isn't even paying attention...


    Yes, I did get a bit pissed when I found out a put a wall of text for a guy...that left the chat. >.>
  5. Jimbon

    Jimbon FAKE TRAIN
    is a Team Rater Alumnus

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2012
    Messages:
    513
    Hi Slantt,

    This is a very nice offensive team, I like how you're utilizing Volt-Turn in conjuction with Chandelure to remove defensive threats. One thing I have noticed is how you like to keep your momentum up throughout a match, and how you are also very weak to CM Keldeo.

    I think you could remove this weakness by using Thunder Wave over Reflect on Xatu. This will alleviate some of the pressure for the rest of your teammates, allowing Breloom and Rotom to switch in easier.

    You also mention that you are quite weak to Chandelure, DDNite and Morning Sun Volcarona. I recommend Air Balloon Heatran over your current Chansey set.

    Show Hide
    Heatran @ Air Balloon
    Trait: Flash Fire
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Fire Blast
    - Hidden Power [Ice]
    - Earth Power
    - Stealth Rock


    This Heatran set patches up a lot of the holes currently in your team. Air Balloon means DDNite will have to break the Balloon before using Earthquake, while Heatran can kill it off with Hidden Power [Ice]. Chandelure and Volcarona are both walled entirely by this set, as Morning Sun Volarona generally doesn't run Hidden Power [Ground] and both of Chandelure's STABs are resisted by Heatran. Heatran also gives you an offensive user of Stealth Rock, meaning you are losing less momentum every time it switches in. Not to mention the fantastic typing Heatran has, giving you another lifeline against Choiced Dragon mons spamming Draco Meteor.

    I've also noticed that increasingly common Sand teams can give you a bit of trouble. Excadrill / Gliscor have a lot of fun with this team after Chandelure is removed by Tyranitar. Choice locked Rotom into Volt Switch allows either of the aforementioned mons a free turn of set up meaning something else is going to die. I'd recommend changing your current Rotom set into a bulkier Rotom. It helps you check DDNite, Gliscor and Excadrill all at once. Having two scarfers can also be quite redundant.

    Show Hide
    Rotom-W @ Leftovers
    Trait: Modest
    EVs: 112 HP / 252 SAtk / 144 Spd
    Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
    - Volt Switch
    - Hydro Pump
    - Will-O-Wisp / Sunny Day
    - Pain Split / Hidden Power [Ice]


    This set allows you to cripple a lot of offensive threats, as well as removing Sand Storm once opposing Tyranitar has been removed. Hidden Power [Ice] deals with the DDNite problem you were talking about and means that you won't be set up fodder for Excadrill and friends.

    Finally, I would recommend changing Breloom's item from Leftovers to Shed Shell. You mention you want to lengthen Breloom's survivability, and with Blaziken gone Breloom has very few things that safely want to switch in on it. The most commonly used switch-in being Chandelure who after coming in on a Spore / Bullet Seed can't do much as you switch out to something else to take it on.


    tl;dr
    - Thunder Wave > Reflect for Xatu
    - Air Balloon Heatran > Chansey
    - A bulkier variant of Rotom
    - Shed Shell > Leftovers for Breloom
  6. New World Order

    New World Order Licks Toads
    is a Team Rater Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2009
    Messages:
    2,159
    Hi, got the request. First and foremost, it is damn near impossible to succeed on the DW ladder without a solid answer to Keldeo. Your current Breloom set is kind of trying to get both power and bulk, but in reality getting neither. One of Breloom's best traits is its ability to strike down problematic Pokemon with just Mach Punch, but this is incredibly difficult without a Life Orb. I think a good replacement for Breloom would be Celebi, who deals with most of the Pokemon that you rely upon Breloom to take on, but can also wall Keldeo and dispose of it with Leaf Storm. Celebi also gives you a status absorber, which we can make use of later. Of course, this leaves your team vulnerable to Excadrill and other Pokemon you rely on Mach Punch to take out. You can mitigate this issue by using a bulky Rotom-W to better take Rock Slides and Returns, and KO in return with Hydro Pump. Sunny Day seems nice in theory, but you have to KO the opposing weather inducer before you can safely use Sunny Day. If you use it any earlier, your opponent will be prepared and wont let their weather inducer fall until Rotom-W is gone. If you use it too late though, the opponent will already have ravaged your team backed by the weather advantage. Just use Will-o-Wisp and Pain Split and call it a day.

    One easy way to deal with your Chandelure and Volcarona troubles is to toss Softboiled for Toxic. If you can nail Chandy on the switch-in, you can outstall it. Volcarona can also be dispatched with ease, as Substitute variants will get the Subs broken by Seismic Toss. I do agree with Jimbon that an Air Balloon Heatran is a more consistent option, and Chansey doesn't bring anything to the table besides Wish support over Heatran. If you opt for Celebi over Breloom, you'll have yourself a new Natural Cure user to absorb status with, taking away one of Chansey's roles within the team. Heatran also gives you backup against Serperior and DD Dragons, neither of which you can ever have too many checks for. However, use a Modest nature instead of a Jolly Nature, as the only significant Pokemon you're really outspeeding are other Heatran, whom you already have Rotom-W to deal with.

    TLDR version (open)

    Celebi>Breloom
    pros: better against Keldeo
    cons: no priority Mach Punch for stuff like Excadrill

    Tank Rotom-W>Scarf Rotom-W
    pros: better at taking on powerful physical attackers, freedom of moves
    cons: not as much speed obviously

    Air Balloon Heatran>Chansey
    pros: better against Dragons, deals with Volcarona, Serperior, Chandelure and other problematic threats
    cons: can't offer Wish support

    Sets (open)

    Celebi @ Life Orb
    Trait: Natural Cure
    EVs: 232 HP / 240 SpA / 36 Spe
    Modest Nature (+SpA, -Atk)
    - Leaf Storm
    - Hidden Power [Fire]
    - Psychic
    - Recover

    Rotom-W @ Leftovers
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 112 HP / 252 SpA / 144 Spd
    Modest Nature (+SpA, -Atk)
    - Volt Switch
    - Hydro Pump
    - Will-O-Wisp / Hidden Power [Ice]
    - Pain Split

    Heatran @ Air Balloon
    Trait: Flash Fire
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spd
    Modest Nature (+SpA, -Atk)
    - Fire Blast
    - Hidden Power [Ice]
    - Earth Power
    - Stealth Rock

Users Viewing Thread (Users: 0, Guests: 0)