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Dream World General Metagame Discussion

Discussion in 'Dream World' started by Zephyr, Jan 23, 2012.

  1. Zephyr

    Zephyr Life Stream
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    Hello and welcome to Dream World OU - The image that BW OU is supposed to eventually look like. As both tiers evolve, the idea is that they will ultimately result into one tier, which will from then on be our official Generation 5 OU tier in its completed form.

    Now that we have this forum set up for Dream World, its time to get some official tests going.

    A lot of Pokemon that are banned in BW OU are still roaming the lands of Dream World. Those include powerhouses such as Garchomp, Manaphy, Thundurus, Excadrill, and Blaziken and the premier hazard layer Deoxys-S. Dream World also features many other unique pokemon such as Technician Breloom and Shadow Tag Chandelure as well as unreleased giants like Genesect and Keldeo.

    Keep the discussion here civil and make sure to back up your points with damage calcs and logs whenever possible and relevant.

    Will Shadow Tag Chandelure prove to be a premier threat as capturing and dismantling teams? Or could Keldeo prove too be the premier Water-type sweeper that Suicune longs too be this generation? And will old titans of the BW OU tier once against demonstrate that they are too good for OU? Only time will tell!
  2. AOPSUser

    AOPSUser

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    I can't speak for others, but I play DW OU just to use Imposter Ditto. Ditto is one of the best revenge killers in the metagame and there is really no way to counter it other than by using Scarf Pokemon and hoping to win the Speed tie. (Or by tricking the Scarf.)

    I really think some of the Pokemon that got unbanned with the start of DW OU shouldn't really be running around in any metagame.

    Blaziken has a few shaky counters at best. Here's hoping to list some:

    -Jellicent
    -Slowbro
    -uhh...

    Manaphy should go. It has access to a move to boost its Special Attack 3 stages along with the dreaded Hydration-Rest which makes a lot of people ragequit on Vaporeon. I mean, I suppose you could ban Drizzle+Hydration, but do we really need that many complex bans?

    I feel we should give Garchomp, Excadrill, and Thundurus a second chance in DW. Other than that, there is no reason to keep any other Uber.
  3. Steamroll

    Steamroll resident zombie
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    MANaphy didn't even need rain in order to get banned from the Clear Skies meta. So a complex ban is pretty pointless to attempt to neuter this combonation. If I remember right Manaphy can abuse a SleepTalk set very easily after a few CM boosts and a restchesto Manaphy can easily acrue atleast one boost before resting off damage and just obliterating the opponent.
  4. tomtom5858

    tomtom5858

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    This. And the fact that if the opponent has rain, Manaphy's gonna eat their face.
  5. Ray Jay

    Ray Jay "The sky's the limit, okey-dokey!"
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    Let's not make this a pattern...
  6. Steamroll

    Steamroll resident zombie
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    Ray Jay wears a too too. But in all seriousness I'm willing to bet money that manaphy is the first to go. Sorry my blue little mermaid friend :(
  7. HardCore

    HardCore

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    I can only agree unfortunately. I can't believe Manaphy is still in this tier. It's extremely powerful and can't even be stopped by Blissey in rain or out of rain. It's one thing to say that a Pokemon is hard to stop, but when a Pokemon designed to handle Pokemon like it can't even compete then it's time to go. The worst part about Manaphy never being OU permanently is that this Generation Manaphy will have to worry about scarf Zekrom's in ubers now. In OU however nothing can flat out counter Manaphy. The best checks are LO or Speced Electric Types above base 100 speed.
  8. tomtom5858

    tomtom5858

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    And they're shaky at best after a few Calm Minds. Little mermaid thing, you will be missed.
  9. Pocket

    Pocket Apo, the astronaut's best friend >:3
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    LO SD Virizion has a 25% chance of scoring an OHKO on offensive Manaphy with Leaf Blade (87-103%). Serperior can come in a non-Ice Beam and demolish Manaphy with Leaf Storm (79-93%). Both of them beats the defensive CM variants, as well.

    EDIT: Virizion & Seperior (Contrary, mind you), sucks????
  10. Zephyr

    Zephyr Life Stream
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    Bojangles pointed that out to me recently as well. I don't know when I picked up that habbit.
  11. BLINGAS ♥

    BLINGAS ♥

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    DW sounds like it could be fun ;-; i'll try it out and see what happens.
    manaphy will be fun and cute. c:
  12. Cherub Agent

    Cherub Agent Yeah, well. The Dude abides
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    Um, no, they most certainly do NOT suck. Serperior is one of the most powerful, fast and bulkiest sweepers in the tier. Virizion is an underrated Pokemon (especially the SD set) with excellent typing and good enough power and coverage that can handle both Rain and Sand teams.
  13. Vein

    Vein

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    Serperior don't suck in this tier. I think he'll be one of the best poke around.

    But to forcefully run Serp in every team just to counter Manaphy sucks. Just let the sweetie be ubered.
  14. jrrrrrrr

    jrrrrrrr wubwubwub
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    You're not forced to run Serperior lol. Don't make such ridiculously false claims. 100 base Speed is hardly anything and many of the best DW-legal pokemon outrun and destroy it.

    This forum has been open for one freakin' day and people are already posting that they want stuff banned. Thank god we put people in charge of this tier instead of doing public voting.
  15. Vein

    Vein

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    Agree. We're just regular battlers anyway.
  16. Taylor

    Taylor stardust infinite
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    I reckon that Tyranitar + Garhomp + Exadrill teams will be most popular, and this perhaps dominent force along side with what I use in Thundurus, Genosect and Chandelure. The last three round off the team with some momentum and coverage, and also you can abuse Shadow Tag to trap their Politoed.

    I'm guessing most people like msyelf are tempted to use Deoxys-S + Blaziken in some sort of hyper offense. I just think priority will be very common and it won't do him much favours at all. Plus, though Chandelure helps deal with some of Blaziken's counters, a secondary Fire-type might just be one too many.

    ,
  17. Hawkstar

    Hawkstar Unplug me from this fantasy
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    Rain is also very good with Keldeo to hit hard, along with the newly unbanned Thundurus to dust off its old OU NP set. Zapdos is also an excellent rain team member, since Lightningrod gave it a huge boost in viability a la Storm Drain Gastrodon. I'm not too sure what the top weather will be, but I'm quite sure it will be either rain or sand since sun teams hate both of them and hail is hail.

    As for what's looking for a ban, I don't like the idea of having Manaphy back. I think it should've stayed with Darkrai, Shaymin-S, and other early Gen OU brokenmons in the Uber tier. What jrrrrrrr is forgetting is that this tier existed in pretty much the same exact form at the beginning of BW, so those of us that played back then still have less than fond memories of Manaphy and Blaziken and crew tearing holes through everything. However, I can agree with him in that they need retesting. Those Pokemon were only banned from DW OU because of the fact that they were banned from Wifi OU, and not because they had an official suspect test and were found to be broken in DW OU. Until then, I suppose that we can give them a chance, but I don't think they'll be around for long.

    Chandelure, on the other hand, is a menace that has been a part of DW OU for a long time. In my opinion, the only thing that keeps me on the fence at all are its weaknesses to SR and Pursuit. Were it weak to neither or only one of the two, I would definitely support banning it. As for now, though, I'm still not sure, but I'm leaning towards a ban. The ability to trap and eliminate anything it can hit hard is something that got Wobbuffet banned in Gen 4. While Wobbuffet got nerfed by the new Encore mechanics and Team Preview, Chandelure is unaffected by either of these. Also, with everyone's favorite Rapid Spinning mole back in OU to take out Tyranitar and Stealth Rock, I can definitely see Chandelure getting banned in the near future.
  18. SoulWind

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    People should try Gothitelle, a very underrated mon with Shadow Tag and better bulk than Chandelure that can be very problematic if not prepared, bad thing Tyranitar is a hard counter, but it helps a lot when you want to kill x poke. This is the set I tried:

    Gothitelle (M) @ Choice Specs
    Trait: Shadow Tag
    EVs: 80 HP / 120 Def / 252 SAtk / 56 Spd
    Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
    - Psychic
    - Hidden Power [Ice]
    - Thunderbolt
    - Dark Pulse
  19. Matthew

    Matthew I love weather; Sun for days
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    I have climbed to first place on the ladder and I'm really surprised by the lack of Garchomp, Blaziken, and Manaphy on teams. The last most option being seeing rarely, but the former two are almost non-existent. Why is that happen?
  20. Zephyr

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    I think it's still just too early and people just haven't caught on to using broken shit right away yet. Heh.
  21. KnightoftheWind

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    I'm the only person I've seen that uses Garchomp. It's just as ridiculous as it was in standard OU, except no-one prepares for it so it's even more potent at pissing people off.
  22. Taylor

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    Do people forget Dragon/Ground has wicked coverage that very few Pokemon actually can successfully resist? On the whole, Garchomp was banned in Standard OU because of Sand Veil. However, the usage statistics allow us to determine that Dragon/Ground hits the first twenty-three Pokemon on the list neutrally. One Swords Dance is all it takes before it starts to wreak havoc; like many of the new and improved movesets available in Dream World.

    Chandelure and Genosect control nullifies any attempt coming from the opponent trying to counter the focal point of your offense.
  23. Hawkstar

    Hawkstar Unplug me from this fantasy
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    I've seen Garchomp once so far, besides my own, and it haxed me out of 20 points. Not a good way to start off.

    Even so, I still think that only Sand Veil itself should be banned, and Snow Cloak too, under the Evasion Clause. Moody had a 1/7 chance of raising Evasion, and the items did it automatically. However, Tyranitar and Hippowdon combined are on about 20% of teams, giving a statistical chance of Sand Veil being active of 1/5, and I'd be willing to bet that the usage of Tyranitar inceases as you get higher on the ladder. It's not just Garchomp either, as Gliscor is also a competent Sand Veil user, as well as Mamoswine and Frosslass in hail. Garchomp will still be top-tier without Sand Veil, but without its 20% chance to avoid a surefire KO, I think it will be far more manageable, especially with Latios beating pretty much all non-Scarf sets and Ferrothorn around Skarmory and Ferrothorn doing a good job of walling the Scarf set.
  24. ala

    ala
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    Yeah I totally agree with Hawkstar. I've actually lost matches due to missing against Mamowine/Frosslass in ou which is ridiculous. It's been a long time since playing against Rough Skin chomp last year but I can't remember it being nearly as broken. Obviously it'll be one of the very best pokemon, hell even Garchomp with cute charm or w/e would be top tier, but it won't rely on misses to sweep, just skilful play.
  25. idiotfrommars

    idiotfrommars schemes and plots are the same thing
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    I've been using Sub Sword Dance Chomp for a few matches and that thing is ridiculous. It's Sand Veil contributed to at least 4 easy wins over about 15 matches in addition to stealing another two at the end that I would have lost. Also with all the Sand around due to a lot of people testing out Excadrill it doesn't even have much competition with regards to the weather war.

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