XY OU Dreams coming to Furfroution (Stall, I think)

13ulbasaur

* It seems to be nervous about fighting.
is an Artist Alumnus
So this isn't my first ever team per se, but it is my first RMT and the first team where I tried really hard to actually properly build a team that might function while still including some of my favourite Pokemon. I was trying to go for a stall type of team, because I really love being able to take all the hits like they are nothing but little booboos and watch them struggle futilely. Keep in mind I'm not completely sure what stall teams entail necessarily so this might seem like a semi-stall team. (What's semi-stall mean anyway? Eh, whatever.)

This team has had mixed results. Sometimes I do extremely well and sometimes it all just flushes down the proverbial toilet. However I am still on the low ladder, I think that whenever I win it is because the opponent has weird sets. Or maybe I'm putting myself down too much. Eh, either way, if I could get some advice on how I could improve my team that would be great. I know it can be improved but at this point I'm not sure how.





Kiro (Venusaur) (M) @ Venusaurite
Ability: Chlorophyll
EVs: 252 SDef / 252 HP / 4 Def
Calm Nature
- Giga Drain
- Sludge Bomb
- Leech Seed
- Synthesis​

If you couldn't tell by my username, Venusaur is one of my favourite starters. Blessed with an amazingly awesome, cool and cute mega evolution that is what got me into stall in the first place, he was of course the Pokemon I NEEDED to have in my team. He has amazing survivability with Leech Seed, Synthesis and Giga Drain and often forces switches in which I just leech seed whatever comes in anyway. Fully invested in special defense, he eats special attacks like yummy ice cream and can even take 2 Psyshocks from a Mega Alakazam (disclaimer: Don't keep him in on Mega Alakazam. Or any Psychic type). Plus, his sludge bombs still deal a hefty amount of damage to whatever comes in though I sometimes have been considering using Toxic instead. Once he is in, he can be a bit hard to force back out without flying or psychic moves. However, I have sometimes been considering running him to be physically defensive or mixed.



Emperor (Furfrou) (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Fur Coat
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 Def / 252 HP / 4 Atk
Impish Nature
- Return
- Cotton Guard
- Toxic
- Rest​

Furfrou is such an amazing physical wall and if often underestimated. His ability combined with Cotton Guard means he becomes nigh untouchable, even by fighting types. For comparison, Furfrou's uninvested Return does more damage than a Breloom's Mach Punch which only hits 27.4 - 32.4%, and even Conkeldurr's Drain Punch only does 39.8 - 46.8% if he isn't statused, and that's without Cotton Guard's +3 Defense boost! It's fairly easy to switch Furfrou in on things, get a Cotton Guard up and rest away the damage and any Toxics the enemy thinks they are so clever in using before revenging with his own and just watching them die. With a 90 base attack, his damage also isn't completely useless.


Garchomp (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Rough Skin
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SDef / 4 Atk
Sassy Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Stone Edge
- Earthquake
- Fire Blast​

I actually got stole this Garchomp set from Ajwf's Terrible Triremes, because I thought it fitted in perfectly. It can switch in, scare the enemy out, set up rocks, and fire blast Ferrothorns and Skarmories which I am really scared of. Even then, he can tank hits fairly well and strike back with a powerful EdgeQuake combo. He also counters Charizard Y, a Pokemon I'm scared of, the main reason why I chose him to be specially defensive. However, he can get worn down fairly easily.


artist:Couldn't find

Eniripsa (Sylveon) (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Pixilate
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 Spe
Bold Nature
- Hyper Voice
- Wish
- Protect
- Heal Bell​

Good ol' Sylveon can never go wrong. With access to Wish and Heal Bell, Sylveon helps massively with supporting my teammates and keeping them healthy, and with a Pixilate Hyper Voice, Sylveon can dish some nice damage on a lot of Pokes, so making Gliscor about 10x less annoying. The defensive EVs and Nature patch up Sylveon's sub-par Defense, and similarly lets it survive 2 Psyshocks from Latios, so if played right can get the threat to my team out of the way or at least heavily cripple it. There's nothing too special to be said otherwise though, very standard Sylveon set, but standard because it does it's job well.


WASHER (Rotom-Wash) @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 248 HP / 44 SpA / 216 SpD
Calm Nature
- Hydro Pump
- Will-O-Wisp
- Volt Switch
- Pain Split​

Rotom is always useful, and in this team he's no exception. He assists me in dealing with Talonflame, which can be difficult to deal with if Furfrou is weakened, as well as Skarmory, who is always a nuisance that Garchomp cannot always take out. Air Balloon Heatran, another big threat, is easily disposed of, resisting Lava Plume and immune to Earth Power. Another user of Will-O-Wisp heavily benefits my team, crippling physical attackers as well as racking up more damage is the best thing stall can ask for, and the Volt Switch momentum is super useful always. Pain Split is not just an unreliable recovery, but it's great for crippling Pokes to let my other teammates have an easier time dealing with them.


μ (Mew) @ Leftovers
Ability: Synchronize
EVs: 252 HP / 148 Def / 108 Spe
Careful Nature
- Taunt
- Will-O-Wisp
- Soft-Boiled
- Defog
After Sylveon was added, I didn't particularly need Heal Bell on Mew anymore, but it's utility was still a great boon to my team. It was swapped to a more Defensive build, Defog lets me get rid of Hazards, and Will-O-Wisp lets me status whatever doesn't get Toxic'd (besides Heatran). The speed EVs allow me to outspeed a number of threats, such as Impish Gliscor, Adamant Dragonite, and the like so I can burn or taunt them before they cause too much havoc. Though losing Psyshock makes me a bit more suspect-able to opposing Venusaurs, the added utility that Taunt and Defog brings is good enough to justify it.
 
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13ulbasaur

* It seems to be nervous about fighting.
is an Artist Alumnus
Updated a little bit. Also, I added some threats I found while I was testing the team out. I think my weak point right now might be Chesnaught or Escavalier but I don't know where to go. Chesnaught handles Bisharp extraordinarily well, as well as Aegislash. The main problem is that he cannot deal with physical poisons. I don't know what physical poison types there are but a Bulk Up Toxicroak on a rain team ran through my team. Escavalier is a solid counter to Mega Gardevoir and can Knock Off whatever item comes in, but it gets worn down quicker than I like.


Please, please just help me out guys. I don't think I can get any better if I stumble along blindly. Is it because I'm not using all the normal meta things?
 
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There are 2 ways to build stall:

1 Use cores, example: venusaur/hetran/quagsire, chansey/skarmory, regenerator core (slowbro/amoungus) F/W/G core (a fire, a water and a grass mon), or a fairy/steel/dragon core.
2 almost ignore cores and use 6 mons that can counter at least 90% of metagame, but always checking the immunity and covering weakness.

Using 2 grass mons without a flying resister isn't the best. Same for an ice resister.

Chesnaugt do what garchomp do, so:

Rotom Wash @ Leftovers or Chesto Berry
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 248 Hp / 216 Def / 44 Spd
Bold Nature
- Hydro Pump
- Will-o-Wisp
- Volt Switch / Thunderbolt
- Pain Split / Rest

Flying, ice, water, fire resistance, some offensive presence and another wow user. Evs are to outspeed jolly azumarill, because if venusaur dies, can be a pain. Aegislash didnd't like to get a wow. Also, u already wall it with megasaur. U can even think to run a special defensive spread.

Escavalier is simply meh. The ugly version of scizor without priority, but they don't resist against dark, so:

Sylveon @ Leftovers
Ability: Pixilate
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SAtk
Bold Nature
- Hyper Voice
- Wish
- Protect
- Heal Bell

Dark, fight resistance, dragon immunity and a wisher. With hyper voice your team isn't more ruined by subkyurem. Also, for a wall hit like subgliscor or subloom is always hard. With 3 offensive wall i really don't think u need escavalier.

Now u can think to remove heal bell from mew for defog. Gets every time damages isn't good for a stall. Also, i would probably run this set:

Mew @ Leftovers
Careful Nature
EVs: 252 HP / 148 Def / 108 Spe
- Taunt
- Will-O-Wisp
- Defog
- Knock Off / Softboiled

With a 108 investment u can outspeed adamant mamoswine/gyarados/dnite and impish gliscor, so u can burn it before get damages, or taunt the ddance.
 
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OK heres a huge problem with your team. You counter stuff well, but you have a lack of hazards, so even if you cause switches and counter stuff theyll just switch around. Also you have a lot of things countered but your pokes will get heavily worn down switching repeatedly. Wish is huge for your team and much better than heal bell. Pretty much people beat your team down and switch around without paying for it with hazards so your team probably ends up like a punching bag. Escavalier isn't a good fit while he counters gardevoir so do many other pokemon who do more. Aegislash can do that and wreck a lot more. What dalai_drama said r good sets
 

13ulbasaur

* It seems to be nervous about fighting.
is an Artist Alumnus
Escavalier is simply meh. The ugly version of scizor without priority, but they don't resist against dark...
WAT? FITE ME.




But in all seriousness, thanks a lot for the help.

When I was building the team, I was trying to go for the second way you listed, to counter as many things as possible.


I'll try out your sets. My main concern right now is Bisharp, but I guess I'll rely on getting a WoW on him on the switch with Rotom/Mew. I'm also worried about Mega Venusaur, as before Mew could just Psychic him and call it a day, but eh I'll see how it goes.

It's really hard to choose from soft boiled or knock off, mainly concerned about facing off Chanseys or Porygon2s, but I think I'll choose Soft Boiled for sustainability sake and because I can just toxic stall the two Pokes if I manage to get rid of the other teammates.

OK heres a huge problem with your team. You counter stuff well, but you have a lack of hazards, so even if you cause switches and counter stuff theyll just switch around.
I have Stealth Rocks. Or did you mean I need to have Spikes too?

Thanks a lot again!


EDIT: First test of the new Mew. I'd say it was a success? Hahaha. The speed investment is definitely useful.

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-134135202
 
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Karxrida

Death to the Undying Savage
is a Community Contributor Alumnus
There are some major problems with this team.

First of all, Furfrou; ditch it. It's a piece of shit and is way too passive.

Second of all, you need hazard control. Having SR on the field for the entire match is horrible for your Venusaur and Escavalier.

Thirdly, you have no way with dealing with CM Magic Guard Clefable (which can solo this team), Stallbreak Gengar, Landorus-I, or Sub Kyurem-B, which can set up on anything except Escavalier and fuck up your team (Garchomp won't be able to deal with Kyurem-B because it has no speed investment or Dragon STAB).

Fourth, you need a Wish passer to keep everything alive, especially Escavalier. Probably Chansey, since it holds stall together anyway.

Finally, you have no Unaware user to deal with setup sweepers. Quagsire is probably the way to go here.
 

13ulbasaur

* It seems to be nervous about fighting.
is an Artist Alumnus
There are some major problems with this team.

First of all, Furfrou; ditch it. It's a piece of shit and is way too passive.

Second of all, you need hazard control. Having SR on the field for the entire match is horrible for your Venusaur and Escavalier.

Thirdly, you have no way with dealing with CM Magic Guard Clefable (which can solo this team), Stallbreak Gengar, Landorus-I, or Sub Kyurem-B, which can set up on anything except Escavalier and fuck up your team (Garchomp won't be able to deal with Kyurem-B because it has no speed investment or Dragon STAB).

Fourth, you need a Wish passer to keep everything alive, especially Escavalier. Probably Chansey, since it holds stall together anyway.

Finally, you have no Unaware user to deal with setup sweepers. Quagsire is probably the way to go here.
Hi there. :D Thanks for the post!

I can't ditch Furfrou, at least, not for personal reasons. He's one of my favourite Pokemon, and dropping him would just make this team... not my team. I find him fun to use and he pulls through for me a lot.

As for hazards and wishes, I totally forgot to update my main post, but I took the suggestions from Dalai and added Defog to Mew as well as Sylveon and Rotom-Wash replacing Chesnaught and Escavalier. The spreads are as follows, but I'll get to updating the original post asap:

WASHER (Rotom-Wash) @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 248 HP / 44 SpA / 216 SpD
Calm Nature
- Hydro Pump
- Will-O-Wisp
- Volt Switch
- Pain Split

Eniripsa (Sylveon) (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Pixilate
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpA
Bold Nature
- Hyper Voice
- Wish
- Protect
- Heal Bell

μ (Mew) @ Leftovers
Ability: Synchronize
EVs: 252 HP / 148 Def / 108 Spe
Careful Nature
- Taunt
- Will-O-Wisp
- Soft-Boiled
- Defog

I'm not sure what I might replace with for Quagsire/Something to deal with setup sweepers though. (NOT FURFROU)
 

Karxrida

Death to the Undying Savage
is a Community Contributor Alumnus
Hi there. :D Thanks for the post!

I can't ditch Furfrou, at least, not for personal reasons. He's one of my favourite Pokemon, and dropping him would just make this team... not my team. I find him fun to use and he pulls through for me a lot.

As for hazards and wishes, I totally forgot to update my main post, but I took the suggestions from Dalai and added Defog to Mew as well as Sylveon and Rotom-Wash replacing Chesnaught and Escavalier. The spreads are as follows, but I'll get to updating the original post asap:

WASHER (Rotom-Wash) @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 248 HP / 44 SpA / 216 SpD
Calm Nature
- Hydro Pump
- Will-O-Wisp
- Volt Switch
- Pain Split

Eniripsa (Sylveon) (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Pixilate
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpA
Bold Nature
- Hyper Voice
- Wish
- Protect
- Heal Bell

μ (Mew) @ Leftovers
Ability: Synchronize
EVs: 252 HP / 148 Def / 108 Spe
Careful Nature
- Taunt
- Will-O-Wisp
- Soft-Boiled
- Defog

I'm not sure what I might replace with for Quagsire/Something to deal with setup sweepers though. (NOT FURFROU)
Cradily is my favorite non-legendary Pokemon (guess what my favorite is) and you don't see me using it in my teams. Then again you've never seen my teams...

Furfrou is just way too passive, and the set you're using is far too easy to take advantage of. I can send in any Steel-type (like Bisharp and Mega Scizor, 2 of the most dangerous Steels not named Aegislash in the game) and get a free Swords Dance, Knock Off whatever's in front of me and remove your precious leftovers, or U-turn out and retain momentum. Alternatively any Substitute abuser can just get a free Sub on you (like the aforementioned Kyurem-B, who only needs your Sylveon weakened to fuck your team).

Also, Cotton Guard is literally useless because 1.) nobody's going to use an unboosted physical attack to kill you anyway and b.) you threaten literally nothing with those defense boosts and are easily forced out by any special attacker, wasting your 2 turns in the process.

Replace it with Quagsire.

EDIT: Sylveon's last 8 EVs should go into speed to outpace uninvested Tyranitar.
 

13ulbasaur

* It seems to be nervous about fighting.
is an Artist Alumnus
Cradily is my favorite non-legendary Pokemon (guess what my favorite is) and you don't see me using it in my teams. Then again you've never seen my teams...

Furfrou is just way too passive, and the set you're using is far too easy to take advantage of. I can send in any Steel-type (like Bisharp and Mega Scizor, 2 of the most dangerous Steels not named Aegislash in the game) and get a free Swords Dance, Knock Off whatever's in front of me and remove your precious leftovers, or U-turn out and retain momentum. Alternatively any Substitute abuser can just get a free Sub on you (like the aforementioned Kyurem-B, who only needs your Sylveon weakened to fuck your team).

Also, Cotton Guard is literally useless because 1.) nobody's going to use an unboosted physical attack to kill you anyway and b.) you threaten literally nothing with those defense boosts and are easily forced out by any special attacker, wasting your 2 turns in the process.

Replace it with Quagsire.

EDIT: Sylveon's last 8 EVs should go into speed to outpace uninvested Tyranitar.
Your favourite legendary is Cresselia, isn't it? kek

Anyway I super appreciate you coming here to help me out with my team but...
The thing is, I know Furfrou is passive. The other thing is, I won't bring him out and keep him in and set up when I know there's a Bisharp/Aegislash/Scizor/etc. steel/poison waiting in the wings (I actually use him as a lure sometimes for double switching). I also don't set up too much when I know there's a special attacker lying around unless I know I can kill it (say it's weakened enough that a Return on the switch in might deal with it or something).
However I won't deny that Furfrou has many, many flaws and isn't the best of Pokemon. After all, he isn't OU for a reason. Or UU. Or RU.
I understand this is selfish of me to refuse a suggestion for the sake of... having fun with my team, but I just really want to use him. I hope you can understand.

I'll replace the 8 Sylveon Evs with speed, I didn't even think of that. Thanks!
 

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