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Druddigon (BW2 Revamp) [QC 3/3] [GP 2/2]

Discussion in 'Uploaded Analyses' started by col49, Jan 8, 2013.

  1. col49

    col49 what.
    is a Contributor to Smogon

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    So I don't wanna say the current on-site analysis is ancient, but a lot of stuff is pretty damn dated, so this is gonna be a bit of an overhaul. There's quite a few changes I'd like to make, some weird stuff to sort out, so bear with me here, ok? Thanks :]

    Code:
    [I]To-Do List:[/I]
    [LIST]
    [*]More meta-relevant overview lol, drop some of the reading of Druddigon's stats /type/
    abilities thing and replace it with more substantial information [✓]
    [*]Redetermine item slashes and EV spreads (Hone Claws is pretty bad imo, Life Orb
    hurts it more than it helps most of the time, SpDef > Def on Parashuffler, etc.) [✓]
    [*]Incorporate BW2 Tutor moves, Fire Punch needs AC or slash on both sets, RestTalk is 
    worth either AC or secondary slash on Parashuffler imo, and Stealth Rock is awesome
    for Defensive Drudd (add and rename the set Defensive or Support or something?) [✓]
    [*]Buff up C&C and OO, both are fairly vague (OO rightfully so, but whatever :x) [✓]
    [*]Control my Quality [✓]
    [*]All about words words words [✓]
    [*]GeePs [ ]
    [/LIST]
    [​IMG]
    Produces Rocks Now

    [Overview]

    <p>Don't let Druddigon's juvenile design fool you into thinking it can't pull its weight in a match; on the contrary, it is one of the most dangerous Pokemon in the tier. Druddigon resides in a select circle of viable Dragon-type Pokemon in RU, having the qualities needed to take full advantage of this rare trait. Its high Attack stat makes it capable of powering through many Pokemon with its powerful Outrage, a trait magnified by the limited number of Steel-types available in the tier; while the move's unsavory lock-in effect can occasionally prove inconvenient, Druddigon's ability to power through most Pokemon attempting to switch in means this drawback can often be ignored. The useful resistances that come with Druddigon's Dragon typing, complimented by its respectable 77 / 90 / 90 defenses, make it very capable of switching into and dismantling the Fire / Water / Grass cores that plague the metagame. Druddigon also retains two useful abilities in Rough Skin and Sheer Force, which it can use to either passively wear down Pokemon such as Entei or act as a potent lure in the form of a mixed set. Druddigon's movepool tailors to its needs quite well, granting it respectable STAB moves and coverage options to work with as well as an assortment of useful support options for it to take advantage of.</p>

    <p>While Druddigon is a true force in the metagame, its low base Speed hinders its performance against most faster threats, forcing it to fall back on its bulk to take hits instead. Moreover, its lack of recovery beyond Leftovers and the unreliable RestTalk make Druddigon highly susceptible to being worn down. The presence of hail has only exacerbated this, not only wearing Druddigon down passively but also bringing with it powerful Blizzard users to prey upon it. Notwithstanding, Druddigon remains a unique and dangerous threat, so be wary of underestimating it lest you invoke its wrath.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Stealth Rock
    move 1: Stealth Rock
    move 2: Outrage / Dragon Claw
    move 3: Earthquake
    move 4: Sucker Punch
    item: Leftovers
    ability: Rough Skin
    nature: Adamant
    evs: 236 HP / 252 Atk / 20 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Druddigon's respectable blend of bulk, typing, and Attack allow it to serve as an excellent offensive Stealth Rock user throughout the match. Outrage provides a powerful STAB attack capable of dealing large damage to anything that does not resist it. On the other hand, Dragon Claw provides a much safer attacking option that does not require Druddigon to lock itself in. Earthquake provides Druddigon with a powerful coverage move allowing it to hit Steel-types hard and also hit several common Pokemon, such as Nidoqueen, Kabutops, and Entei, hard without having to lock itself into Outrage. Lastly, Sucker Punch offers Druddigon a moderately powerful priority attack that allows it to mitigate its poor Speed stat and pick off weakened Pokemon.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>The given EV spread seeks to maximize offensive presence and bulk, with 20 Speed EVs allowing Druddigon to outpace Tangrowth and hit it again before being put to sleep. If need be, Druddigon can invest more heavily in Speed to outpace Pokemon such as Clefable and Lanturn, though the loss in bulk resulting from this is evident when faced with powerful attackers such as Sceptile and Rotom. Superpower and Fire Punch both offer Druddigon alternative coverage moves capable of hitting Steel-types, with the former being capable of punishing bulky Normal-types as well and the latter hitting Pokemon such as Escavalier and Durant that enjoy switching into Druddigon's STAB attacks as well as hitting Ice-types such as Cryogonal consistently without locking into Outrage. As contradictory as it sounds, if one's team can afford an alternative Stealth Rock user, Leftovers Druddigon in its own right is quite viable and threatening, taking advantage of the free moveslot to utilize another attacking option such as Dragon Claw, a secondary coverage move, Glare for crippling faster attackers, or even Substitute to minimize prediction.</p>

    <p>Generally speaking, powerful offensive Pokemon such as Durant are useful teammates for Druddigon for their ability to wear down dedicated physical walls such as Poliwrath and Steelix so it can more effectively break through them. Spikes support is appreciated for Druddigon considering most of its checks and counters are grounded. Ferroseed and Qwilfish are useful for this purpose, setting up hazards against a respectable amount of common switch-ins to Druddigon. Powerful Fighting- and Ground-types offer a more direct way of pressuring Steel-types that trouble Druddigon. Nidoqueen and Gallade can both pressure Steel-types rather well, with Druddigon in turn helping to barrel through some of their prospective checks with its STAB attacks.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Choice Band
    move 1: Outrage
    move 2: Superpower / Earthquake
    move 3: Sucker Punch / Fire Punch
    move 4: Dragon Claw
    item: Choice Band
    ability: Rough Skin
    nature: Adamant
    evs: 236 HP / 252 Atk / 20 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Druddigon's solid Attack stat, Dragon STAB, and numerous opportunities to switch in lend itself to being a potent Choice Band user. Outrage is Druddigon's primary STAB move and hits everything barring Steel-types for an impressive amount of damage. Superpower and Earthquake both offer Druddigon coverage options for combating Steel-types, with both providing their own benefits. Superpower allows Druddigon to hit Ferroseed hard, while also punishing incoming Normal-types, whereas Earthquake, while not offering any particular coverage against Steel-types that Superpower lacks, allows Druddigon to hit Fire-types it innately checks hard without having to lock itself into Outrage. Earthquake's lack of stat drops is also important, as it allows it to better handle Pokemon such as Steelix, which can otherwise 2HKO with Earthquake when taking into account Defense drops. Sucker Punch allows Druddigon to mitigate its poor Speed stat, picking off weakened or frail Pokemon that would otherwise threaten it. However, being Choice-locked into Sucker Punch is dangerous, so it should be used only in instances of absolute necessity. That said, Fire Punch offers Druddigon a feasible alternative, allowing it to hit Pokemon such as Escavalier, Durant, and Ferroseed hard. Dragon Claw grants Druddigon a "safe" Dragon STAB, allowing it to fire off Dragon-type attacks mid-game without giving Steel-types more than one free turn to work with or becoming too vulnerable to being taken out by a strong Ice- or Dragon-type attack.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>The EV spread seeks to maximize offensive presence and bulky, with 20 Speed EVs allowing Druddigon to outpace Tangrowth and hit it again before being put to sleep, ensuring it can be 2HKOed with Outrage after Stealth Rock damage. Druddigon can also bump up its Speed to outpace Pokemon such as Lanturn before they can attempt to burn it with Scald, though taking away from bulk does somewhat hurt Druddigon's ability to pivot into attacks. In a similar vein, Druddigon performs admirably in Trick Room, with its lower base Speed turned to a boon, and is one of the tier's most dangerous Trick Room sweepers. Should it be used as such, a spread of 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD with a Brave nature should be used to "maximize" its Speed. ThunderPunch is a decent option, allowing Druddigon to hit bulky Water-types such as Slowking and Poliwrath without locking itself into Outrage.</p>

    <p>As Choice Band Druddigon generally faces very few Pokemon that can readily take on multiple attacks from it, other hard-hitting physical attackers are excellent partners for overloading physical walls and sweeping. Pokemon such as Rock Polish Rhydon and Durant make solid examples of this, being able to pressure Steel-types that can check Druddigon and in turn spring-boarding off Druddigon's attacks. Strong Fighting- and Fire-types are also cool partners to Druddigon, as their ability to steamroll through Steel-types makes Druddigon's STAB attacks that much more effectual. Examples of these are Gallade, Entei, and Moltres. As Druddigon's typing lends itself to switching in on a plethora of attacks, it will find itself being worn down by hazard damage rather quickly. Rapid Spin users such as Cryogonal and Kabutops mitigate this issue, as well as offering a reasonable Ice-type resistance as well.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Mixed
    move 1: Outrage / Dragon Claw
    move 2: Flamethrower
    move 3: Earthquake
    move 4: Sucker Punch / Substitute
    item: Life Orb
    ability: Sheer Force
    nature: Lonely
    evs: 216 HP / 252 Atk / 20 SpA / 20 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>By utilizing its Sheer Force ability in conjunction with Life Orb, Druddigon is capable of luring in and KOing several of its usual checks and counters. Outrage remains as powerful as ever, dealing massive damage to all those that don't resist it. Dragon Claw can be utilized over this, as while the drop in power is very noticeable, it allows Druddigon more leniency in taking advantage of its STAB earlier in a match, as well as functioning better in conjunction with Substitute. Flamethrower is what makes this set tick, allowing it to safely and cleanly break through Pokemon such as Steelix, Tangrowth, and Escavalier, 2HKOing the former two and OHKOing the latter after Stealth Rock damage. Earthquake, while seemingly providing redundant coverage, is invaluable for hitting an assortment of Pokemon hard without resorting to locking Druddigon into Outrage, including but not limited to Nidoqueen, Kabutops, and Omastar. Sucker Punch offers Druddigon a useful priority move to pick off faster threats such as Galvantula and Sceptile, among others. On the other hand, Substitute capitalizes on the switches Druddigon forces and the surprise value of the set, allowing it to safely hide behind a Substitute while also taking out Pokemon such as Steelix and Tangrowth effectively.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>The EV spread allows Druddigon to maintain bulk and high Attack, with 20 Special Attack EVs ensuring that Flamethrower OHKOes 248 HP / 8 SpD Escavalier after Stealth Rock damage and the Speed investment allowing it to outpace minimum Speed Tangrowth, allowing it to effectively 2HKO it with Flamethrower. Alternatively, a spread of 152 HP / 252 Atk / 20 SpA / 84 Spe with a Brave nature can be used to similar effect, making Druddigon more generally bulky and allowing it to take on Pokemon such as Entei better as opposed to favoring Druddigon's ability to take specially oriented hits. While being relatively slow, Druddigon can still outpace Pokemon such as Poliwrath, Clefable, and Lanturn should it be deemed necessary, though doing so would encourage the use of a Lonely nature as opposed to a Brave one. Alternative move options include Crunch, which allows Druddigon to cleanly 2HKO Uxie and hit other such Psychic-types hard, and ThunderPunch, which allows it to hit Water-types such as Slowking and Poliwrath hard without locking into Outrage, both of which receive the boost provided by Sheer Force.</p>

    <p>Pokemon that appreciate the removal of dedicated physical walls such as Steelix and Tangrowth really appreciate the support of mixed Druddigon. Escavalier, Aerodactyl, and Kabutops all are reasonable examples of this, with the latter also providing Rapid Spin support to allow Druddigon to switch in better. Paralysis support is nice if available, as it allows Druddigon to avoid relying on Sucker Punch or Substitute to leave an impact on offensively oriented teams. Lanturn, Ferroseed, and Slowking are all capable of slowing down the opposing team for Druddigon and provide good defensive synergy with it as well. Considering Druddigon is often presented with opportunities to switch in, a Rapid Spin user such as Kabutops or Cryogonal can be useful for reducing the rate at which Druddigon can be worn down from doing so.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Support
    move 1: Glare
    move 2: Dragon Tail
    move 3: Stealth Rock / Rest
    move 4: Earthquake / Sleep Talk
    item: Leftovers
    ability: Rough Skin
    nature: Careful
    evs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD


    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Due to its plethora of useful resistances and respectable bulk, Druddigon makes for a very effective status platform and phazer. Glare offers a reasonably accurate paralysis move that affects nearly all of the tier, making it easy for Druddigon to cripple opposing Pokemon. Dragon Tail offers Druddigon a moderately powerful STAB move that doubles as a phazing move, allowing it to spread around paralysis and residual damage from entry hazards effectively. Druddigon, finding quite a few opportunities to set up Stealth Rock, makes for a very versatile user of the move. Earthquake allows Druddigon to hit Steel-types that resist Dragon Tail hard, preventing Pokemon such as Klinklang from setting up on it. Having access to a neutral priority attack is also useful, as Druddigon is capable of outpacing most of the unboosted tier should they be paralyzed, and can thusly KO Pokemon before they can attack back. On the other hand, considering how easily Druddigon is worn down, RestTalk can be used to effectively prolong its life.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>Druddigon's EV spread seeks to maximize special bulk in order to capitalize on its specially based resistances. However, an alternative spread of 252 HP / 124 Def / 132 SpD can be used to better take on certain Pokemon like Choice Band Entei, which this spread is able to consistently survive two Choice Band Flare Blitzes from, though deviating heavily from investment in Special Defense hurts Druddigon's ability to check Pokemon such as Sceptile. Fire Punch can be used over Earthquake for the ability to hit Ferroseed, Durant, and Escavalier hard, while also hitting Grass-types at neutral priority. Roar is an interesting option for helping Druddigon phaze around Substitute users more efficiently and can also be used alongside Dragon Claw instead of Dragon Tail and a coverage move to allow for a neutral priority STAB move to work with. Sucker Punch is available, and priority is never a bad thing to have, though without investment in Attack it is somewhat weak, which should be taken into account. Substitute is a feasible option for Druddigon that can ensure it can safely paralyze Pokemon in most situations where it might otherwise be threatened out, such as match-ups with hard-hitting Ice-types, while also making it less vulnerable to Trick.</p>

    <p>The most effective partners to this set are slow heavy hitters that can take advantage of the widespread paralysis support Druddigon provides. Examples of this include Aggron, Escavalier, and Bouffalant. As Druddigon spends about half its time phazing Pokemon around, entry hazard support is appreciated for capitalizing on this. Ferroseed and Qwilfish both are strong Spikes users and defensive partners for Druddigon. Wish and Heal Bell support are both appreciated, as Druddigon is quite vulnerable to being worn down over time, a trait exemplified by its occasional resorting to RestTalk. Clefable and Flareon are both respectable examples of users of these moves. As with most of Druddigon's sets, it appreciates Rapid Spin support from Pokemon such as Cryogonal.</p>

    [Other Options]

    <p>Hone Claws is an interesting tool for improving Druddigon's Attack stat, though its lower Speed prevents it from taking full advantage of the move outside a dedicated Trick Room team. Druddigon has access to Taunt, which could be an interesting option for shutting down checks such as Alomomola, though Druddigon's mediocre Speed again prevents it from making good use of the move. Pursuit is an interesting move to carry, though for the most part Druddigon doesn't scare Ghost-types out particularly well, as most would rather attempt to burn it with Will-O-Wisp, and generally speaking without any form of boost from STAB or ability, Pursuit is rather weak.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>In the most conventional sense, Steel-types are probably the most effective counters to Druddigon, resisting its STAB and generally not caring much about paralysis from Glare due to their characteristically low Speed, though they all need to be wary of its coverage moves. Steelix in particular is problematic for Druddigon, taking any two attacks from it barring the mixed set's Flamethrower by merit of its mammoth physical bulk. Pokemon such as Escavalier and Aggron can steamroll Druddigon with powerful Choice Band boosted Megahorn and Head Smash (respectively), and Durant can set up Hone Claws boosts on a locked-in Druddigon. Pokemon with good natural physical bulk, such as Rhydon and Tangrowth, can take most of Druddigon's attacks well, though they struggle to takes hits from the Choice Band and mixed set. However, more often than not, exploiting Druddigon's lower Speed is the best method of checking it, as most Pokemon struggle to take multiple attacks. Fast Pokemon such as Accelgor and Aerodactyl are able to outpace it and put it out of commission after enough prior damage, and Pokemon such as Uxie can take a hit by merit of their bulk and KO after Druddigon has been worn down enough. Powerful Ice-types, such as Rotom-F and Glaceon, are usually able to OHKO Druddigon with their powerful STAB attacks, even more so in the context of hail teams where they have access to a powerful and accurate Blizzard. Druddigon as a whole is very susceptible to being worn down and simply crumples from switching in on Pokemon such as Sceptile after switching into entry hazards and attacks enough. The support set, when utilizing RestTalk, falls prey to Substitute users, which are capable of avoiding Druddigon's Glare and phazing prowess.</p>
  2. Yonko7

    Yonko7 Guns make you stupid. Duct tape makes you smart.
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    In the AC of the Choice Band set, mention how hazard damage can rack up quickly. The switching in and out combined with being hit by all hazards can rack up. So to help it Kabutops and Cryogonal are great partners, as their weaknesses can be redirected towards Druddigon thanks to its resistances, and they can also switch into an Ice attack towards Druddigon.

    Similarly, the AC of the support set also would like a mention of its hindrance by hazards, and Kabutops and Cryogonal are both the spinners of choice.

    In OO, add that Druddigon can set up Rain Dance and Sunny Day, both of which can be used in a clutch on their respective team.

    Great skeleton col49!
  3. Molk

    Molk Crustle knocked off the opposing Rhydon's Assault Vest!
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    I would slash Stealth Rock with Dragon Claw on the physical attacker set. Its sort of counterproductive if your running choice band, but it's a quality option if your using Leftovers, as Drudd has no problem setting up Stealth Rock over the course of the match. Druddigon also has the added perk of hitting like an absolute truck, making it even more appealing to offensive teams looking for a Stealth Rock setter.

    I would consider maybe adding some faster EV spread into the AC of the physical attacker set as well (maybe enough to outrun lanturn?), on paper it seems like a cool idea because it can stop walls from crippling you or recovering before you can attack again. If you do AC a faster EV spread, be sure to mention that it's usually a better idea to maximize Druddigon's hp stat to preserve its great bulk.

    Give Life Orb an AC mention on the physical attacker set, its usually better to conserve Druddigon's bulk, but the extra power with the ability to switch moves can be quite useful sometimes, plus, if you run Sheer Force Druddigon doesnt take recoil when it uses a move thats boosted by it which is pretty cool.

    Mention Escavalier and Durant in checks and counters, they resist Outrage, can take any of Druddigon's coverage moves bar Fire Punch (although only once), and pose a significant threat when they come in. Escavalier can just straight up OHKO it or do heavy damage to a switch in with its CB megahorn, while Durant is perfectly capable of setting up on a Druddigon locked into Outrage.

    EDIT: Texas says put tpunch in AC to smash slowking without locking yourself in
    I dont know anything about the parashuffler set so ill just leave that up to the rest of QC x_x
  4. col49

    col49 what.
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    I like how I mentioned getting worn down a few times, used spinners on almost all my test teams for Druddigon, then didn't mention spin support .-. Lol, thanks for mentioning that Yonko, added :P

    I actually was using offensive SR Drudd a lot, but I thought it might be too unorthodox to be taken seriously lol. Mentioned everything there, and while I don't really like investing so much Speed or TPunch, I can see there uses :x
  5. complete legitimacy

    complete legitimacy Honko's Happy Funtime With Men
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    This is a pretty cool set right here.

    [SET]
    name: Mixed
    move 1: Stealth Rock / Glare
    move 2: Outrage / Dragon Claw
    move 3: Flamethrower
    move 4: Crunch
    item: Life Orb
    ability: Sheer Force
    nature: Quiet
    evs: 12 HP / 252 Atk / 244 SpA

    Calcs (open)
    244+ SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Druddigon Flamethrower vs. 252 HP / 36 SpD Steelix: 315-372 (88.98 - 105.08%) -- 50% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

    244+ SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Druddigon Flamethrower vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Tangrowth: 406-478 (100.49 - 118.31%) -- guaranteed OHKO

    252 Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Druddigon Crunch vs. 252 HP / 160+ Def Uxie: 179-213 (50.56 - 60.16%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

    252 Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Druddigon Crunch vs. 248 HP / 144 Def Slowking: 283-335 (72.01 - 85.24%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock


    This was a pretty anti-metagame set that I used in the Cresselia days, but I think it's still just as effective now. This set is pretty much the best Steelix lure ever invented, and you also beat Tangrowth too. It's a shame TanKing isn't around anymore, because this set destroys it. The first move is kind of a toss-up between Stealth Rock and Glare, I guess it depends on what your team needs. That being said, Druddigon can also support itself with either of those moves, so yeah I don't know. I'm not 100% sure that this should get a spot in the analysis yet though, so I welcome other QC members and of course col49 to test this more with me. The other thing I'm not quite sure on is the spread; you can tell by the calcs that Druddigon needs 244 Special Attack EVs with a boosting nature, but you can outspeed defensive Tangrowth with 20 EVs with a neutral nature, and I'm sure that Druddigon could live without 8 Attack EVs, so hopefully we can work that out too.
  6. col49

    col49 what.
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    Sorry for taking so long to respond to this, but Showdown wasn't working for me at all and I felt it wouldn't be appropriate to respond unless I got a definitive amount of testing of the lure set in. That being said, while I definitely agree it is a cool set, and the surprise value of it is quite nice, I always found myself wishing it was bulkier or had that extra boost of a +Atk nature more so than I appreciated it's ability to smash Steelix and Tangrowth :/ Having to dedicate that many EVs for a single move that could (aside from the two cases you mention) easily be replaced with Fire Punch and yield similar results with the benefits of minutely higher Attack and noticeably greater bulk just seems not worth it imo. Imo this idea works much better on Pokemon such as Absol, where the loss of bulk is nearly unnoticeable and the investment needed to achieve results is much less stark. Of course, I do recognize the differences in the two, and really they can't fairly be compared like that, and I would be more than happy to give it a big mention in OO, though I don't think it's worth a set atm :)

    Also, since I believe I covered most stuff, I guess QC can have at this !_!
  7. Texas Cloverleaf

    Texas Cloverleaf meh
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    Bolded my changes. Druddigon really doesn't need so much Special Attack investment, 2HKOing Steelix, Tangrowth, and Escavalier with minimal investment. Thunderpunch destroys bulky water types, especially Poliwrath and Slowking. Druddigon forces a lot of switch making it much easier to set up a Substitute on a switch, easing prediction. With the spread provided Druddigon retains the majority of its bulk and physical attacking prowess in addition to luring in and KOing Steels.

    Either way I think that a Mixed set definitely deserves to be in the analysis and is one of its best options to use.

    Also Fire Punch is really really weak comparatively.
  8. col49

    col49 what.
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    ok, after a little discussion over irc, the mixed set has been incorporated into the analysis with some minor changes as per request =)
  9. Molk

    Molk Crustle knocked off the opposing Rhydon's Assault Vest!
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    You know, i mentioned that i wanted Stealth Rock slashed on the physical attacker set before, but after using Stealth Rock Druddigon a bit, i think it might deserve its own set. While the sets themselves are very similar, Leftovers Druddigon plays very differently from Choice Band Drudd. While Choice Band Druddigon just smashes shit, and gets worn down kinda easily, lefties Druddigon supports the team more with its access to Stealth Rock as well as the ability to use Leftovers to passively regain its hp and remain a thorn in the opponents side much longer with its great bulk and typing. If we were to split the physical attacker into two sets, i think the Stealth Rock Druddigon would look like this.

    [SET]
    name: Stealth Rock
    move 1: Stealth Rock
    move 2: Outrage / Dragon Claw
    move 3: Sucker Punch
    move 4: Earthquake
    item: Leftovers
    ability: Rough Skin
    nature: Adamant
    evs: 236 HP / 252 Atk / 20 Spe


    Stealth Rock is there because well...... its Stealth Rock and thats the reason why this set would exist. Outrage provides Druddigon with a very powerful STAB to 2hko the majority of the RU tier with, but it can be a hinderance at times because it locks Druddigon into the move. Dragon Claw isnt as powerful, but it doesnt lock you in, which makes it an option for sure. Sucker Punch lets druddigon pick off faster opponents such as Sceptile and Cinccino that might pose trouble otherwise, and its very handy against Physical attackers when used in tandem with Rough Skin. Earthquake hits steels such as Steelix and Magneton right where it hurts, and it also lets Druddigon hit Nidoqueen, Emboar, Entei, and Magmortar hard without locking itself into Outrage, which is always useful.

    What does the rest of QC think of this? Do you think the two sets are worth splitting?
  10. col49

    col49 what.
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    Ok, so after some debate over irc, several QC members (Molk+Texas+DC, Oglemi and SV maybe?) and myself has decided to split the Physical Attacker set into Stealth Rock and Choice Band sets, giving full-on Leftovers Physical Attacker heavy AC mention in the Stealth Rock set, and ordering the sets SR>CB>Mixed>SpD. I think I covered everything, but if missed anything be sure to let me know, I wanna make this as strong an analysis as possible :<
  11. Honko

    Honko
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    - Glare is a good option on the first set if you already have a SR user, mention in AC.

    - Slash Fire Punch with Sucker Punch on CB. CB Sucker Punch is just such a risky move that I would rarely recommend. Fire Punch OHKOes Durant and Escav, saving Drudd or its teammates from having to take a powerful Iron Head or Megahorn. Also, don't mention Jynx as a target for Sucker Punch since Jynx can easily set up on that.

    - The Mixed set should definitely outspeed Tangrowth.

    - Mention Substitute on the last set.
  12. col49

    col49 what.
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    Alrighty Honko, mentioned everything bar one thing, being the Mixed EV spread change. I do agree that Tangrowth is an important target for Druddigon to hit (dunno how this hasn't been brought up before, my bad there x_x), but I'm not sure what its nature it should be using. 152 HP / 252 Atk / 20 SpA / 84 Spe Brave and 216 HP / 252 Atk / 20 SpA / 20 Spe Lonely are both achieving the desire SpA and Spe benchmarks, but I'm a bit unsure as to which should be used. By rule of thumb I would imagine the Lonely spread would be superior as it better capitalizes on Drudd's specially-based resists, though using a - Defense does seem inherently odd for such a bulky 'mon :/ Would someone mind weighing in on this?

    edit: decided upon Lonely spread over irc, sorry for any possible confusion =(
  13. Texas Cloverleaf

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    7,693
    Lonely: 349-372-194-161-216-137
    Brave: 333-372-216-161-216-137

    349*194=67706
    349*216=75384
    Sum=143090

    333*216=71928
    Sum=143856

    In terms of overall bulk the Brave spread is the better option. I think mentioning both is worthwhile, as while I agree with you about capatalizing on its specially based resistances, the Brave spread will be better at checking things such as Entei.
  14. col49

    col49 what.
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    Yeah, that was exactly my problem when I was picking =( But that works too, I'll mention the Brave spread in the AC for that purpose, thanks Texas!
  15. Oglemi

    Oglemi Working hard
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    this looks good

    [qc]1/2[/qc]
  16. col49

    col49 what.
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    Cool, thanks Oglemi ^_^
  17. Molk

    Molk Crustle knocked off the opposing Rhydon's Assault Vest!
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    QC approved 2/2

    lgi drudd!
  18. col49

    col49 what.
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    Awesome, thanks Molk :) I'll get writing this right away~
  19. col49

    col49 what.
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    Alrighty, finally got this written up, this analysis got much beefier without me totally realizing it lol. Anywho, if QC wants to look over this to verify the content is up to code, that would be super =)
  20. DittoCrow

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    • In the Overview, say that Druddigon is often found at a disadvantage due to being locked into Outrage. However, almost nothing can switch directly into the second strongest Outrage in the tier, the first being Zweilous.
    • Fire Punch also hits Cryogonal and other Ice-types without locking itself into Outrage.
    • Besides Spikes users as teammates, add that powerful attackers such as Durant can easily wear down the opposition together.
    • Personally, I would not emphasize Steel-types as partners, as Dragon- and Ice-type moves are quite rare in RU, and Ferroseed, Magneton, and Klinklang are rarely seen or very useful. I would focus on offensive partners instead. The mixed set should include this especially, because Druddigon can lure in and KO walls that its teammates struggle with.
    • I would note that because there are so little switch-ins to Druddigon, the best way of dealing with it is to revenge kill it by hitting it with hard attacks after it is worn down by something such as Uxie, who can take one Outrage.

    Really good job

    [qc]3/3[/qc]
  21. col49

    col49 what.
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    Alrighty, I do believe I covered everything there, thanks DC :) I'm not sure if the way I wrote it made any segments more awkward than they already were, but I trust GP can help me out if I messed up x_x
  22. melvni

    melvni
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    GP check. Good job on writing this. Just make sure to keep track of whether to use its or it's a little more carefully.
    Additions in Blue
    Subtractions in Red
    Comments in Purple

    Show Hide
    [Overview]

    <p>Don't let Druddigon's jejune (I'll admit I've never seen this word before, but looking it up, Merriam Webster says it means one of either lacking in nutritive value, dull, or juvenile; is that what you meant to say here? (just checking, leaving as is if that is)) design fool you into thinking it can't pull its weight in a match; on the contrary, it is one of the most dangerous Pokemon in the tier. Druddigon resides in a select circle of viable Dragon-type Pokemon in RU, a trait it is more than capable of taking having the qualities needed to take full advantage of this rare trait. Its higher high Attack stat make makes it capable of powering through several many Pokemon with its powerful Outrage, a trait magnified by the limited number of Steel-types available in the tier, (change to semicolon) which while the move's unsavory lock-in effect can occasionally proving inconvenient due to its unsavory lock-in effect prove inconvenient, Druddigon's ability to power through most Pokemon attampting to switch in means this drawback can often be often ignored for its ability to power through most Pokemon attempting to switch in. The useful resistances that come with Druddigon's Dragon typing, complimented by its respectable 77 / 90 / 90 defenses, make it very capable of switching into and dismantling the Fire / Water / Grass cores that plague the metagame. Druddigon also retains two useful abilities in Rough Skin and Sheer Force, which it can use to either using the former to passively wear down Pokemon such as Entei or the latter act as a potent lure in the form of a mixed set. Druddigon's movepool tailors to its needs quite well, granting it respectable STAB moves and coverage options to work with, (remove comma) as well as an assortment of useful support options for it to take advantage of.</p>

    <p>However, that is not to say Druddigon is without its fault. Its low base Speed hinders its performance against most faster threats, falling forcing it to fall back on its bulk to take hits instead. Moreover, its lack of recovery beyond Leftovers and the unreliable RestTalk make Druddigon highly susceptible to being worn down. The presence of hail has only exemplified exacerbated this, not only wearing Druddigon down passively but also bringing with it powerful Blizzard users to prey upon the dragon it. Notwithstanding, Druddigon remains a unique and dangerous threat, so be wary of underestimating it lest you invoke its wrath.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Stealth Rock
    move 1: Stealth Rock
    move 2: Outrage / Dragon Claw
    move 3: Earthquake
    move 4: Sucker Punch
    item: Leftovers
    ability: Rough Skin
    nature: Adamant
    evs: 236 HP / 252 Atk / 20 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Druddigon's respectable blend of bulk and Attack allow it to serve as an excellent offensive Stealth Rock user. Due to its useful bulk and typing, Druddigon finds multiple opportunities to set up Stealth Rock during a match. Outrage provides a powerful STAB attack capable of dealing large damage to any non-resists anything that does not resist it. On the other hand, Dragon Claw provides a much safer attacking option that does not require Druddigon to lock itself in. Earthquake provides Druddigon with a powerful coverage move allowing it to hit Steel-types hard, while also hitting and to hit several common Pokemon, such as Nidoqueen, Kabutops, and Entei, hard without having to lock itself into Outrage. Lastly, Sucker Punch offers Druddigon a moderately powerful priority attack that allows it to mitigate its poor Speed stat and pick off weakened Pokemon.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>The given EV spread seeks to maximize offensive presence and bulk, with 20 Speed EVs allowing Druddigon to outpace Tangrowth so as it can and hit it again before it can being put it to sleep. If need be, Druddigon can invest more heavily in Speed to outpace Pokemon such as Clefable and Lanturn, though the loss in bulk resulting from the investment in Speed this is evident when faced with powerful attackers such as Sceptile and Rotom. Superpower and Fire Punch both offer Druddigon alternative coverage moves capable of hitting Steel-types, with the former being capable of punishing bulky Normal-types as well and the latter hitting Pokemon such as Escavalier and Durant who that enjoy to switch switching into Druddigon's STAB attacks as well as hitting Ice-types such as Cryogonal consistently without locking into Outrage. As contradictory as it sounds, if one's team can afford an alternative Stealth Rock user, Leftovers Druddigon in it's its own right is quite feasible viable and threatening, taking advantage of the free moveslot to utilize another attacking option such as Dragon Claw or a secondary coverage move, Glare for crippling faster attackers, or even Substitute to minimize prediction.</p>

    <p>Generally speaking, powerful offensive Pokemon such as Durant are useful to Druddigon for their ability to wear down dedicated physical walls such as Poliwrath and Steelix so as the other it can more effectively break through them. Spikes support is appreciated for Druddigon considering most of its checks and counters are grounded. Ferroseed and Qwilfish are useful for this purpose, setting up hazards against a respectable amount of common switch-ins to Druddigon. Powerful Fighting- and Ground-types offer a more direct way of pressuring Steel-types that trouble Druddigon. Nidoqueen and Gallade can both pressure Steel-types rather well, with Druddigon in turn helping to barrel through some of their prospective checks with its STAB attacks.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Choice Band
    move 1: Outrage
    move 2: Superpower / Earthquake
    move 3: Sucker Punch / Fire Punch
    move 4: Dragon Claw
    item: Choice Band
    ability: Rough Skin
    nature: Adamant
    evs: 236 HP / 252 Atk / 20 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Druddigon's solid Attack stat, Dragon STAB, and numerous opportunities to switch in lend itself to being a potent Choice Band user. Outrage is Druddigon's primary STAB move, (remove comma) and hits everything barring Steel-types for an impressive amount of damage. Superpower and Earthquake both offer Druddigon coverage options for combating Steel-types, with both providing their own benefits. Superpower allows Druddigon to hit Ferroseed hard, while also punishing incoming Normal-types, whereas Earthquake, while not offering any particular coverage against Steel-types that Superpower lacks, allows Druddigon to hit Fire-types it innately checks hard without having to lock itself into Outrage. The Earthquake's lack of stat drop seen in Superpower drops is also important, as it allows it to better handle Pokemon such as Steelix, who could which can otherwise 2HKO with Earthquake when taking into account Defense drops. Sucker Punch allows Druddigon to mitigate it's its poor Speed stat, picking off weakened or frail Pokemon that would otherwise threaten Druddigon it. However, being Choice locked Choice-locked into Sucker Punch is dangerous, and so it should be used only in instances of absolute necessity. That said, Fire Punch offers Druddigon a feasible alternative, allowing it to hit Pokemon such as Escavalier, Durant, and Ferroseed hard. Dragon Claw grants Druddigon a "safe" Dragon STAB, allowing Druddigon it to fire off Dragon-type attacks mid-game without giving Steel-types more than one free turn to work with or becoming too vulnerable to being taken out by a strong Ice- or Dragon-type attack.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>The EV spread seeks to maximize offensive presence and bulky, with 20 Speed EVs allowing Druddigon to outpace Tangrowth so as it can and hit it again before it can being put it to sleep, allowing ensuring it to 2HKO it can be 2HKOed with Outrage after Stealth Rock damage. Druddigon can also bump up it's its Speed to outpace Pokemon such as Lanturn before they can attempt to burn it with Scald, though taking away from bulk does somewhat hurt Druddigon's ability to pivot into attacks. In a similar vein, Druddigon performs admirably in Trick Room (add comma) with it's its lower base Speed turned to a boon, and is one of the tier's most dangerous TR Trick Room sweepers. Should it be used as such, a spread of 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD with a Brave nature should be used to "maximize" its Speed. Druddigon can also bump up it's Speed to outpace Pokemon such as Lanturn before they can attempt to burn it with Scald, though taking away from bulk really hurts Druddigon's ability to pivot into attacks. Fire Punch offers an alternative coverage move for Steel-types, which allows Druddigon to nail Escavalier, Durant, and Ferroseed as they switch into it. (the sentence about Speed was already stated two sentences earlier and Fire Punch is mentioned in the set comments) Thunderpunch ThunderPunch is also a decent option, allowing Druddigon to hit bulky Water-types such as Slowking and Poliwrath without locking itself into Outrage.</p>

    <p>As Choice Band Druddigon generally faces very few Pokemon who that can readily take on multiple attacks from it, other hard-hitting physical attackers are excellent partners for overloading physical walls and sweeping. Pokemon such as Rock Polish Rhydon and Durant make solid examples of this, being able to pressure Steel-types that may can check Druddigon and in turn spring-boarding off Druddigon's attacks. Strong Fighting- and Fire-types are also cool partners to Druddigon, as their ability to steamroll through Steel-types makes Druddigon's STAB attacks that much more effectual. Examples of these are Gallade, Entei, and Moltres. As Druddigon's typing lends itself to switching in on a plethora of attacks, it will find itself being worn down by hazard damage rather quickly. Rapid Spin users such as Cryogonal and Kabutops mitigate this issue, as well as offering a reasonable Ice-type resistance as well.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Mixed
    move 1: Outrage / Dragon Claw
    move 2: Flamethrower
    move 3: Earthquake
    move 4: Sucker Punch / Substitute
    item: Life Orb
    ability: Sheer Force
    nature: Lonely
    evs: 216 HP / 252 Atk / 20 SpA / 20 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>By utilizing its Sheer Force ability in conjunction with Life Orb, Druddigon is capable of luring in and KOing several of its common usual checks and counters. Outrage remains as powerful as ever, dealing massive damage to all those who that don't resist it. Dragon Claw can be utilized over this, and as while the drop in power is very noticeable, it allows Druddigon more leniency in taking advantage of its STAB earlier in a match, as well as functioning better in conjunction with Substitute. Flamethrower is what makes this set tick, allowing it to safely and cleanly break through Pokemon such as Steelix, Tangrowth, and Escavalier easily, 2HKOing the former two and OHKOing the latter after Stealth Rock damage. Earthquake, while seemingly providing redundant coverage, is invaluable for hitting an assortment of Pokemon hard without resorting to locking Druddigon into Outrage, including but not limited to Nidoqueen, Kabutops, and Omastar. Sucker Punch offers Druddigon a useful priority move to pick off faster threats such as Galvantula and Sceptile, among others. On the other hand, Substitute capitalizes on the switches Druddigon forces and the surprise value of the set, allowing it to safely hide behind a Substitute while also taking out Pokemon such as Steelix and Tangrowth effectively.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>The EV spread allows Druddigon to maintain bulk and high Attack, with 20 Special Attack EVs ensuring that Flamethrower OHKOs OHKOes 248 HP / 8 SpD Escavalier after Stealth Rock damage and the Speed investment allowing it to outpace minimum Speed Tangrowth, allowing it to effectively 2HKO it with Flamethrower. Alternatively, a spread of 152 HP / 252 Atk / 20 SpA / 84 Spe with a Brave nature can be used to a similar effect, making Druddigon more generally bulky and allowing it to take on Pokemon such as Entei better as opposed to favoring Druddigon's ability to take specially oriented hits. While being relatively slow, Druddigon can still outpace Pokemon such as Poliwrath, Clefable, and Lanturn should it be deemed necessary, though doing so would encourage the use of a Lonely nature as opposed to a Brave one. Alternative move options include Crunch, which allows Druddigon to cleanly 2HKO Uxie and hit other such Psychic-types hard, and Thunderpunch ThunderPunch, which allows it to hit Water-types such as Slowking and Poliwrath hard without locking into Outrage, both of which receive the benefits presented boost provided by Sheer Force.</p>

    <p>Pokemon who that appreciate the removal of dedicated physical walls such as Steelix and Tangrowth really appreciate the support of mixed Druddigon. Escavalier, Aerodactyl, and Kabutops all are reasonable examples of this, with the latter also providing Rapid Spin support to allow Druddigon to switch in better. Paralysis support is nice if available, as it allows Druddigon to avoid relying on Sucker Punch or Substitute to leave an impact on offensively oriented teams. Lanturn, Ferroseed, and Slowking are all capable of slowing down the opposing team for Druddigon and providing provide good defensive synergy with it as well. Considering Druddigon is often presented with opportunities to switch in, a Rapid Spin user such as Kabutops or Cryogonal can be useful for reducing the rate at which Druddigon can be worn down from switching in doing so.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Support
    move 1: Glare
    move 2: Dragon Tail
    move 3: Stealth Rock / Rest
    move 4: Earthquake / Sleep Talk
    item: Leftovers
    ability: Rough Skin
    nature: Careful
    evs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD


    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Due to its plethora of useful resistances and respectable bulk, Druddigon makes for a very effective status platform and phazer. Glare offers an a reasonably accurate paralysis move that affects nearly all of the tier, making it simple easy for Druddigon to cripple opposing Pokemon. Dragon Tail offers Druddigon a moderately powerful STAB move that doubles as a phazing move, allowing it to spread around paralysis and residual damage from entry hazards effectively. Druddigon, finding quite a few opportunities to set up Stealth Rock, makes it for a very versatile user of the move. Earthquake allows Druddigon to hit Steel-types that resist Dragon Tail hard, allowing it to prevent preventing Pokemon such as Klinklang from setting up on it. Having access to a neutral priority attack is also useful, as due to the nature of the set Druddigon is capable of outpacing most of the unboosted tier should they be paralyzed, (remove comma) and (add comma) due to the nature of the set, can thusly KO Pokemon before they can attack back. On the other hand, considering how easily Druddigon is worn down, RestTalk can be used to effectively prolong it's its life.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>Druddigon's EV spread seeks to maximize special bulk in order to capitalize on its specially based resistances. However, an alternative spread of 252 HP / 124 Def / 132 SpD can be used to better take on certain Pokemon such as Entei, more specifically being able to consistently survive 2 two Choice Band Flare Blitz's Blitzes from Entei, though deviating heavily from investment in Special defense Defense hurts its Druddigon's ability to check Pokemon such as Sceptile. Fire Punch can be used over Earthquake for the ability to hit Ferroseed, Durant, and Escavalier hard, while also hitting Grass-types at neutral priority. Roar is an interesting option for helping Druddigon phaze around Substitute users more efficiently, (remove comma) and can also be used alongside Dragon Claw instead of Dragon Tail and a coverage move to allow for a neutral priority STAB move to work with. Sucker Punch is available, and priority is never a bad thing to have, though without investment in Attack it is somewhat weak, which should be taken into account. Substitute is a feasible option for Druddigon that can assure ensure it to can safely paralyze Pokemon in most situations where it may might otherwise be threatened out, such as match-ups with hard-hitting Ice-types, while also making it less vulnerable to Trick.</p>

    <p>The most prominent effective partners to this set are slow heavy hitters that can take advantage of the rich widespread paralysis support Druddigon provides. Examples of this include Aggron, Escavalier, and Bouffalant. As Druddigon spends about half his its time phazing Pokemon around, entry hazard support is appreciated for capitalizing on this. Ferroseed and Qwilfish both provide are strong Spikes users and defensive partners for Druddigon. Wish and Heal Bell support are both appreciated, as Druddigon is quite vulnerable to both being worn down over time, a trait exemplified when utilizing by its occasional resorting to RestTalk. Clefable and Flareon are both respectable examples of this users of these moves. As with most of Druddigon's sets, it appreciates Rapid Spin support from Pokemon such as Cryogonal.</p>

    [Other Options]

    <p>Hone Claws is an interesting tool for improving Druddigon's Attack stat, though its lower Speed prevents it from taking full advantage of it the move outside a dedicated Trick Room team. Druddigon has access to Taunt, which would could be an interesting option for shutting down checks such as Alomomola, though Druddigon's mediocre Speed against again prevents him it from making good use of the move. Pursuit is an interesting move to carry, though for the most part Druddigon doesn't scare Ghost-types out particularly well, as most would rather attempt to burn it with Will-O-Wisp, and generally speaking without any form of boost from STAB or alternate ability (add comma) Pursuit is rather weak.</p>

    [Checks & Counters]

    <p>In the most conventional sense, Steel-types are probably the most effective counters to Druddigon, resisting it's its STAB and generally not caring much about paralysis from Glare due to their characteristically low Speed, though they all need to be wary of its coverage moves. Steelix in particular gives problems is problematic for Druddigon, taking any two attacks from it barring the mixed set's Flamethrower by merit of its mammoth physical bulk. Pokemon such as Escavalier and Aggron can steamroll the dragon Druddigon with powerful Choice Band boosted Megahorn and Head Smash (respectively), and Durant can set up Hone Claws boosts on a locked-in Druddigon. Pokemon with good natural physical bulk, such as Rhydon and Tangrowth, can take most of Druddigon's attacks well, though they struggle to takes hits from the Choice Band and mixed set. However, more often than not, exploiting Druddigon's lower Speed is the best method of checking it, as most Pokemon struggle to take multiple attacks from the dragon. Fast Pokemon such as Accelgor and Aerodactyl are able to outpace it and put it out of commission after enough prior damage, and Pokemon such as Uxie can take a hit by merit of its their bulk and KO after Druddigon has been worn down enough. Powerful Ice-types, such as Rotom-F and Glaceon, are usually able to OHKO Druddigon with their powerful STAB attacks, even more so in the context of hail teams where they have access to a powerful and accurate Blizzard. Druddigon as a whole is very susceptible to being warn worn down, (remove comma) and simpley simply crumples from switching in on Pokemon such as Sceptile after switching into entry hazards and attacks enough. The Support support set, when utilizing RestTalk, falls prey to Substitute users, who which are capable of avoiding Druddigon's Glare and phazing prowess.</p>


    [gp]1/2[/gp]
  23. col49

    col49 what.
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    Yelch, made some really dumb mistakes on this, sorry x_x Thanks for bearing with me melvni =)
  24. melvni

    melvni
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    Hey no problem. Just one more thing though:

    This was totally my bad as I spelled it wrong in my GP check.
  25. col49

    col49 what.
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    Oh, thanks man, appreciate it =) Also, since I forgot to mention it post-check, I do like the word jejune, though considering target audience I feel as though juvenile might be more appropriate, since it isn't exactly a household term x_x

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