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Discussion in 'RarelyUsed' started by BurningMan, Oct 29, 2011.
noob question.... what about a jolly scarf drudd? or is he still too slow?
it can't quite outspeed base 100s, but it's not like there's many of them anyways. it's generally better off just hitting really hard with a cb set, but i could see it being pretty effective, if mostly due to surprise factor.
This is the set I run:
Ability: Rough Skin
Item: Rocky helmet
Evs: 252 Atk / 252 HP
- Outrage / Dragon Claw
- Sucker punch
I know rocky helmet seems out of place, but if Krow comes in, I can let Rocky Helmet + Rough Skin do work. Not to mention other physica attackers are losing on average of about 1/2 their HP by the time the ugly creep goes down. I like to use him with ferroseed sometimes to rack up the residual damage from time to time.
Druddigon @Rocky Helmet
Ability: Rough Skin
Ev spread: 252 hp, 252 def, 4 spd
This set is quite hard to use but can catch an opponent off guard. I use this in OU with entry hazard support.
Well @ the above post, this is the RU tier. Try to discuss how you use the sets in the rarely used metagame! Anyways, I use a similar set to the one above, only with some tweaked EVs/moves. Here it is:
Druddigon (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Rough Skin
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SDef
Careful Nature (+SDef, -SAtk)
- Dragon Claw
This is the RU version of the ParaShuffler Dragonite, except this set is better than the Impish one posted above. Substitute blocks status and Leech Seed, while Roar will phaze out common special set-up sweepers like Lilligant or Butterfree. Dragon Claw is self-explainitory. Dragon moves are beast in RU, and Druddigon doesn't even need significant Atk investment because of his 120 Base Attack. The reason that this is successful is that the RU tier lacks good special walls. The most common special attacks are Grass, Electric, Water, and Fire, and Druddigon resists them all! This combined with Glare will give your team an edge. Here are some calcs:
LO Timid Sceptile Leaf Storm: 27.65 - 32.68%
Scarf Timid Manectric Thunderbolt: 14.24 - 17.03%
- HP Ice: 28.49 - 34.07%
- Specs Thunderbolt: 21.5 - 25.41%
- Specs HP Ice: 42.45 - 50.27%
Modest Magneton Thunderbolt: 17.59 - 20.67%
Timid Rotom-C Leaf Storm: 21.22 - 25.13%
- Thunderbolt: 14.24 - 17.03%
LO Galvantula Bug Buzz: 33.79 - 40.22%
HP Ice: 35.19 - 41.89%
Specs Typhlosion Fire Blast: 30.72 - 36.03%
Offensive Sigilyph Psychic: 35.47 - 41.89%
+2 CM Spiritomb Dark Pulse: 34.63 - 41.06%
+2 Lilligant Giga Drain: 23.46 - 27.65%
- HP Rock: 37.98 - 44.97%
+2 TR/NP Cofagrigus Shadow Ball: 49.72 - 58.93%
LO Timid Moltres Air Slash: 32.96 - 39.38%
- Fire Blast: 26.53 - 31.28%
LO Rain Sweeper Ludicolo Ice Beam: 49.72 - 58.65%
+2 Shell Smash Omastar Ice Beam: 89.94 - 106.14%
Druddigon doesn't really counter the last 4 Pokemon, but I just included the calcs to show how bulky it can be. It's able to live a +2 Omastar's Ice Beam.
Other things it beats: Lanturn, CM Entei, Tangrowth, Slowking (without Ice Beam), Roselia, and more.
Hopefully people will try this out because the Pokemon I listed are some of the most used in the tier. I found Druddigon to be a great team supporter for my balanced team.
i tried a set with Druddigon albeit with my friends and not in any competative play at all, one of them uses a mish mash team(lead by a baton pass venomoth..going across all tiers) and he hates this set, the other uses OU and can easily overcome it, but still on a switch in to a physical attacker it can do some damage.
Druddigon (M) @ Rocky Helmet
Trait: Rough Skin
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Def / 252 SPDef
Relaxed Nature (+Def, -SpD)
- Sucker Punch
The set is for him to take hits, coz he's got a good base of 90/90 def and SPdef so he should be able to take a good hit or two, with the damage from rocky helmet and rough skin to deal a little bit more damage, and sucker punch to hit in before he gets hit, taunt is also there to stop any form of set up on him, and toxic is also for residual damage so he can keep getting hit and pouring out the pain so to speak.
main problem with this is obv the switch out to a special sweeper and extreme weakness to a faster taunter. im new to battling online so i dont know whats what with the tiers, but this is my take on this pokemon :D
I dont know if it's worth a defensive investment, but giving him revenge with a rocky helmet and really either ability is an idea that I have started to to with.
I think that for that Druddigon set two posts above, a better EV spread would be Max HP, Max Spe, 4 Atk (if you want a fast taunt) or Max HP, Max Def, 4 Spe (to better take physical hits). Idk what Rest is really doing there (easy to setup against), maybe Glare to catch faster pokes on the switch in (and taunt next turn) with Wish support from the likes of Clefable. Clefable can also handle special attackers for Druddigon.
I have a question with Druddigon. If you're using him for paralysis support with Glare, is it better to use Impish or Careful? The set on site uses Impish, but most of the time I switch Druddigon into special attacks, since pure-dragon's main resistances are almost always special attacks anyway.
Any real merit of using Impish over Careful besides being better at abusing Rough Skin?
A specially defensive EV spread with a Careful nature is indeed better, yes. It counters a lot more special threats than it does physical threats. The on site analysis needs a revamp!
No mention of how Drudd can set up SR thanks to BW2?
SR might make the ParaShuffler set more worthwhile, at least in that the moveset becomes:
1. Stealth Rock
4. Dragon Claw
Other than that, I honestly don't think the ParaShuffler set changes much. Stealth Rock might be useful on other utility sets, though.
You might consider replacing Dragon Claw with Dragon Tail so you can still phaze while Taunted.
For Drudi is better Rough Skin or Mold Breaker?
Mold Breaker sucks on Druddigon so don't use it. Use Rough Skin on the defensive set and Rough Skin / Sheer Force for the offensive one. Sheer Force powers up Fire Punch a lot, which is always nice.
Everything with Sheer Force but no STAB to abuse cries. This thing should have so gotten Dragon Rush. No Roost either. Meh (looks askance at Dunsparce). DittoCrow's SpD calcs are nice though. Pity Rough Skin doesn't factor with Special moves. This thing is such a weirdo.
Druddigon is just amazing as a Stealth Rock user. In RU pure dragon resists so many important types, and acts as a check to virtually everything that it can take a hit from. The offensive presence this guy can bring is pretty amazing, and I really do love using him. I have been testing a more defensive set similar to DittoCrow's on a paralysis based team with hazards, and that set is really helpful.
Has anybody had any success with a double phazing set?
Druddigon @ Leftovers/Rugged Helmet
Trait: Rough Skin
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SDef (Using DittoCrow's Spread)
Careful Nature (+SDef, -SAtk)
- Dragon Tail
- Sleep Talk
Of course you need hazards up for this to do much.ResTalk keeps Druddigon healthy while allowing a 2/3 chance to pick a phazing move. You have a bunch of special bulk and physical attackers have Rough Skin damage (and maybe Rugged Helmet) to deal with in addition to constant hazards damage.
Of course ResTalk is weaker in 5th Gen but it looks like it could work OK.
In this case Mold Breaker might be the preffered ability. Not much is sound proof (Roar) but just in case? I'm thinking that it's main purpose is to ensure phasing happens and to exploit hazards so having Mold Breaker may be more of what the set is looking for.
But then the question becomes: Mold Breaker works that way, right?
I've quite liked Druddigon. I've been going the physically defensive route since the team it's on has no good switch ins to physical attackers such as Entei or Feraligatr otherwise and I really have been pleased with it. Most of its resists do come on the special side, but it's perfectly capable of going defensive on the physical side since it really has no weaknesses on the physical side. Works really well with Lanturn and/or Cryogonal who can heal status and stop special setup sweepers respectively. Both tank special hits and cover Ice moves as well, which is a great bonus.
I used Rocky Helmet Stealth Rock Drudd on a more defensive team with Spikes Ferroseed. Although the team wasn't the best, i was surprised at how well the 2 worked together. I used Dragon Tail, but then switched to Roar after getting annoyed with misses. Drud can take on pretty much any Fire-type who isn't Moltres, which Ferroseed absolutely loves. Glare is actually pretty cool too. Since Drudd is so uncommon, people see a non Lefties Drud and switch to something to absorb an Outrage, only to be met with paralysis that may come back to hinder them later.
I've never used Sheer Force Drud, but I know ShakeItUp used a CB Drud on his Trick Room team, and i believe TropiOUs has been messing around with a Sheer Force Stealth Rock set
Just figured i'd chime in
Sheer Force SR Druddigon is comparable to SR Nidoqueen. They can both not only set up entry hazards, but also have the firepower and bulk to be useful throughout the match. Druddigon is a better bulky mon than Nidoqueen, since it invests maximum HP investment instead of Speed, and it's a reliable check against dangerous threats like Lilligant and Feraligatr. Sheer Force-boosted Fire Punch is all it needs to wreck Steel-types, while Sucker Punch is a hard-hitting revenge-killing tool for Druddigon. Outrage just decimates teams. If I don't sac Druddigon, it tends to guarantee 2 kills a match. I personally find it a lot more bad ass than Nidoqueen, since it can just spam Outrage and kill stuff due to the raw power, whereas Nidoqueen relies on super-effective damage to OHKO mons.
Speaking of tankish SR leads, I believe Druddigan outclasses Rhydon in almost all aspects. Rhydon may have superior physical defense, but its weakness to Water and Grass are too easily exploited. Dragon is a much more dependable defensive and offensive typing in RU, imo.
The Druddigon set i love the most is the Sheer Force all out attacking set with Outrage / Fire Punch / Thunderpunch / Sucker Punch, max Atk and HP (or a few Speed evs to speed creep) with an Adamant nature and LO as the item. This thing is simply amazing! It can 2hko everything in RU (except support Aggron, which is stupid), have strong priority, great bulk and resistances, meaning many switch in opportunities, and 2 very strong moves that don't lock you and don't have LO recoil.
Fire Punch is an awesome move to spam as not many Grass, Fire, Water and Rock types would switch into Druddigon, and it hits like a truck, 2hkoing most things that don't resist it in RU. Outrage is Outrage and has awesome neutral coverage and is your stronger move, and the fuck you all button when all Steel types are gone, and Sucker Punch is awesome and strong priority. Btw standard Nidoqueen is always 2hkoed by Fire Punch + Sucker Punch, and Druddigon is never ohkoed by any of Nidoqueen's move (Ice Beam does 95% max, so at worst you will die after killing it with Sucker Punch from LO recoil. Btw Ice Beam is rare). Now about the odd move, Thunderpunch. This move is what enables Druddigon to beat the infamous Steelix + Slowking as well as the TangKing combo. Without Tpunch, Slowking could make you lock yourself into Outrage if you wanted to kill it, which meant that Steelix would wall you, and Slowking could status you as he can take one Outrage from full life. But with Tpunch no more Slowking. Slowking takes ~80% from Tpunch, which is a ohko after Fire Punch, and Steelix is 2hkoed from Fire Punch, so with proper prediction you can beat the core. Same for TanKing, where Slowking would again force you to lock yourself into Outrage, while Tangrowth could tank 2 Outrages and put you to sleep. With T-punch you are also able to ohko many water and flying types without locking yourself into Outrage such as Aerodactyl, Kabutops, Feraligatr, Moltres, Crawdant and Sigilyph. For this reason this set is an excellent lead as it can beat many common leads such as Aero and Nidoqueen with the combo of Fire Punch / Thunderpunch and Sucker Punch. Without Tpunch, Aero would be able to both set up SR, and deal great damage to you with Stone Edge, as you would have to lock yourself into Outrage in order to kill it.
Mold Breaker on Soundproof sounds interesting as it could help against Baton Pass teams. However, I think the extra residual from Rough Skin is probably going to be useful more often. Thanks for helping with the set. I will try to see if I like it.
In general usage I totally agree with you; however, the set is looking to phase so anything that furthers that goal is a good thing. If phasing was a secondary goal 100% would go Rough Skin but it's the primary goal here so Mold Breaker should at least be mentioned.
As for my example: after checking there's only 2 NU/RU 'mon with Soundproof, Bastidon and Boufulant (spelling?). Bastidon behind a sub can wall this set to Distotion World and back but who uses Bastidon? As for Boufulant (?), I'm sure he's busy using Sap Sipper and wouldn't care about Soundproof competitavely.
Mold Breaker ensures the phase but I guess it's more of a niche than prefferred after doing my homework...