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Dugtrio (Reversal)

Discussion in 'Uploaded Analyses' started by Tobes, Oct 19, 2011.

  1. Tobes

    Tobes Woo-hoo, woo-hoo, woo-hoo-hoo!
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    QC Approved: Iconic, Setsuna, PK Gaming
    GP Approved: zdrup15, Zystral

    [SET]
    name: OU Reversal
    move 1: Reversal
    move 2: Earthquake
    move 3: Stealth Rock
    move 4: Stone Edge / Sucker Punch / Substitute
    item: Focus Sash / Expert Belt
    ability: Arena Trap
    nature: Jolly
    evs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Reversal Dugtrio is an effective trapper of weather inducers, capable of swinging the match in its team's favor by removing the opponent's weather from the equation. A full-powered Reversal will always OHKO any Tyranitar that lacks a Chople Berry, and also does respectable damage to Politoed. The ability to remove Tyranitar is especially important, as even Jolly Choice Scarf Tyranitar is outsped by Dugtrio. Earthquake is Dugtrio's strongest STAB, and while a full-powered Reversal is stronger even after factoring in STAB, it is essential for removing Ninetales or dealing chip damage while Dugtrio is at full health. Stealth Rock can be set up while Focus Sash is intact or while Dugtrio has a Substitute up, putting Dugtrio's team at even more of an advantage. Stone Edge provides coverage on Flying-types, whereas Sucker Punch can be used to deal with Pokemon such as Latios. Substitute gives you more control over Reversal's Base Power, and also makes Dugtrio more effective at trapping Ferrothorn and Blissey. An Expert Belt can be used over Focus Sash in this case, as it gives Dugtrio a chance to OHKO Chople Berry Tyranitar, while also dealing more damage to Blissey and Ferrothorn. An Adamant nature gives Expert Belt Dugtrio a better shot at OHKOing Chople Berry Tyranitar.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>8 EVs can be subtracted from Speed or Attack and added to HP in order to allow Dugtrio to switch into Stealth Rock and survive two Seismic Tosses from Blissey with 1 HP left. Rock Slide is a more accurate option over Stone Edge if revenge killing Volcarona is of high priority, but Dugtrio desperately needs the superior power of the latter due to its below-average Attack stat. Memento can also be used over Stealth Rock or one of the coverage moves in order to cripple whatever switches in after Dugtrio nets its kill. Endure can be used in place of Focus Sash in order to guarantee that Dugtrio survives with 1 HP, regardless of entry hazards. Hone Claws is also an option, as with it Dugtrio can set up on Pokemon locked into an Electric-type move, while also giving the Substitute variant a way to deal more damage to Ferrothorn and Blissey. A Fighting Gem can be used over Expert Belt to drastically increase Reversal's power.</p>

    <p>This set should only be used on weather teams that want a way to reliably remove the opponent's weather. It works best on rain teams, as the primary opposing weather inducers, Tyranitar and Ninetales, are easy prey for Dugtrio. This set also works very well on Drought teams, as it can trap Heatran and Terrakion, two Pokemon that are consistent nuisances for the playstyle. It should be noted that Dugtrio cannot touch Hippowdon and struggles against Politoed and Abomasnow, although both can be beaten through smart play. The Substitute variant can actually beat some Politoed easily if Dugtrio switches into Perish Song. Dugtrio appreciates entry hazards for making revenge killing much easier. For example, Expert Belt Dugtrio almost always OHKOes 252 HP Chople Berry Tyranitar if Stealth Rock or a layer of Spikes is up. On the flip side, Dugtrio also pairs well with a Rapid Spinner such as Starmie or a Magic Bounce Pokemon such as Espeon, as Dugtrio is easy set-up fodder for many users of Spikes and Stealth Rock after it has gotten its kill, and the Focus Sash version needs the field clear of entry hazards in order to work.</p>
  2. Iconic

    Iconic
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    NITPICKS!!!!!!!!

    probably wouldn't mention trapping ferrothorn, because any smart user will just set up SR, break your sash with leech seed and then ohko you with either gyro ball or power whip. even a full power reversal does something lame like 70% (calcs? just running this off the top of my head).

    stone edge over rock slide for sure because even though the flinch rate is cool dugtrio is pathetically weak and wants all the power it can get. maybe a sucker punch slash?

    might want to mention that duggy works really well with a spinner or magic bouncer (starmie/tenta on rain, forry/xatu on sun). duggy is really big set up fodder for all common spikers after it gets a kill, like skarm/forry/ferro

    nice nice nice good set

    QC Approved 1/3
  3. Tobes

    Tobes Woo-hoo, woo-hoo, woo-hoo-hoo!
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    urg meant to put stone edge but have been playing too much vgc

    also meant to mention spinning to keep sash intact as well as the reason you just gave

    will clarify that subreversal dugtrio has the option of crippling ferro but more than willing to drop that part
  4. Setsuna

    Setsuna Prototype
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    Looks good to me.

    QC APPROVED (2/3)
  5. Pocket

    Pocket Apo, the astronaut's best friend >:3
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    I'd definitely mention its ability to snipe Heatran out, which would otherwise wall most Drought Teams; killing Heatran is probably half the reason why Dugtrio is so common on these teams.

    Hippowdon and most Politoed really don't give a fuck about Dugtrio. Usually, Chlorophyll mons are better for destroying opposing weather inducers. However, trapping and killing TTar is huge, no doubt.
  6. TheMagicStik

    TheMagicStik

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    Well unless my calcs were wrong (which I did a while back) CB Max attack Dugtrio has like a 50% chance to OHKO max HP TTar and I dont think there are any TTars that run defense, and really thats all reversal is really good for on this set is killing TTar.
  7. PK Gaming

    PK Gaming Pursuing My True Self
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  8. Jimera0

    Jimera0 You don't understand, Edgar is the one in the hole!
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    hey now, it wasn't my post on the Dugtrio thread that sparked this now was it? I can't help but to notice that this gets made the day after I make that post questioning why there isn't a Reversal analysis on the site already.

    And how come I only got one Q/C in several weeks where this one gets 3 in less than a day D: *I'm only half serious here don't get upset XD*

    Anyway, on topic, this set actually CAN beat Choiced Politoed. With Specs you use Earthquake first, Reversal Second, and with Scarf you use Reversal first if it's Timid (Since you get outsped), then Sucker Punch. If it's Modest, same as Choice Specs. Of course, this requires you to know what the Politoed is running before you trap it while still keeping hazards off your side of the field, but it can be done.
  9. -Tsunami-

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    I think that the option of running 12 HP EVs should be added. This lets Dugtrio take SR Damage and still live two Seismic Tosses with 1HP; allowing it to devastate Chansey / Blissey with Reversal. Taking 2 stat points out of Attack / Speed isn't too big of a problem regardless.
  10. ParaChomp

    ParaChomp

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    I brought this up one time in generation 4...and it got rejected! Maybe it was because I played it (and still do) offensively with Endure, Sucker Punch, and Leichi Berry and/or the fact that now, times have changed.

    That said, I would give mention to Endure with the ups and downs of using it. I also don't like Expert Belt without Endure but that's not for me to decide. It's worth noting that Abomasnow destroys this set (which is mainly used to counter weather inducers). Max Speed Dugtrio outruns max Speed Abomasnow with a Choice Scarf and its Stone Edge requires 2 hits for a KO. Then there's the fact that Hail breaks the Focus Sash.

    Ugh...I really didn't need to type all of this, Dugtrio against Abomasnow is no different than Dugtrio against Politoed. Also, if you're going to EVs away from a stat, make sure it's Attack, Dugtrio's has excellent Speed and with the demand for it, shouldn't be tampered with.
  11. Tobes

    Tobes Woo-hoo, woo-hoo, woo-hoo-hoo!
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    You could say that lol. I had wanted to write up Reversal Dugtrio for a while now but back when the original OU analysis was going through QC I saw that the Reversal set was being tested and assumed it was already on-site. So thanks for bringing that to my attention ;)

    I'll have this written up fairly soon.

    Also I'm a little iffy on 12 HP EVs considering that a smart Blissey player will just Toxic instead of S-tossing a second time. However, the Sub version can run a 21 HP IV so that it can switch into Stoss and still Sub down to 1 HP.
  12. AccidentalGreed

    AccidentalGreed HOMERUN, CABRONES
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    Just mention both in a couple of sentences in the AC just because you would want to beat Blissey most of the time.
  13. zdrup15

    zdrup15
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    Blue = Add
    Red = Delete
    Bold = Comments

    [​IMG]

    GP APPROVED 1/2
  14. Deaga

    Deaga

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    I think the Abosmanow mention on that sentence should be removed. You need some ridiculous work to be able to reversal it on the first place (change the weather and count on it not switching away in the meantine) and there's always the chance that it's packing Ice Shard. Hell, a smart Abomasnow could even Leech Seed you rather than attacking right off the bat, rendering your Focus Sash useless even if you somehow switch into it in non-Hail weather. :/
  15. New World Order

    New World Order Licks Toads
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    Amateur GP Check
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    QC Approved: Iconic, Setsuna, PK Gaming
    GP Approved: zdrup15

    [SET]
    name: Reversal
    move 1: Reversal
    move 2: Earthquake
    move 3: Stealth Rock
    move 4: Stone Edge / Sucker Punch / Substitute
    item: Focus Sash / Expert Belt
    ability: Arena Trap
    nature: Jolly
    evs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe


    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Reversal Dugtrio is an effective trapper of weather inducers weather inducer trapper, capable of swinging the match in its team's favor by removing the opponent's weather from the equation. A full-powered Reversal will always OHKO any Tyranitar that lacks a Chople Berry, and also does respectable damage to Politoed. The ability to remove Tyranitar is especially important, as even Jolly Choice Scarf Tyranitar is outsped by Dugtrio. Earthquake is Dugtrio's strongest STAB, and while a full-powered Reversal is stronger even after factoring in STAB, it Earthquake is essential for removing Ninetales or dealing chip damage while Dugtrio is at full health. Stealth Rock can be set up while Focus Sash is intact or while Dugtrio has a Substitute up, putting its Duggy's its implies "Stealth Rock's team" team at even more of an greater advantage. Stone Edge provides coverage on against Flying-types, while Sucker Punch can be used to deal with Pokemon such as Latios. Substitute gives the user more control over Reversal's Base Power, and also makes Dugtrio more effective at trapping Ferrothorn and Blissey more effective. An Expert Belt can be used over Focus Sash in this case, as it gives Dugtrio a chance to OHKO Tyranitar even through Chople Berry, while also dealing more damage to Blissey and Ferrothorn.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>8 EVs can be subtracted from Speed or Attack and added to HP in order to allow Dugtrio to switch into Stealth Rock and survive two Seismic Tosses from Blissey with 1 HP left. Alternatively, Substitute variants can use an HP IV of 21, allowing them to switch into Seismic Toss and still Substitute down to 1 HP. Rock Slide is a more accurate option over than Stone Edge if revenge killing this implies that Dugtrio is concerned with getting revenge killed by Volcorona Volcarona is a serious concern, but Dugtrio desperately needs the superior power of the latter due to its below-average Attack stat. Memento can also be used over Stealth Rock or one of the coverage moves in order to cripple whatever switches in the switchin after Dugtrio nets its kill. Endure can be used in place of Focus Sash in order to guarantee that Dugtrio drops to survives with 1 HP, regardless of entry hazards.</p>

    <p>This set should only be used on weather teams that want a way to reliably remove the opponent's weather summoner. It works best on rain teams, as the primary opposing weather inducers, Tyranitar and Ninetales, are easy prey for Dugtrio. This set also works very well on Drought teams, as it can trap Heatran and Terrakion, two Pokemon that are a consistent nuisances for the playstyle. It should be noted that Dugtrio cannot touch Hippowdon and struggles against Politoed and Abomasnow, although both can be beaten by through "by" implies that "smart play" is a Pokemon that beats Politoed smart play. This set appreciates entry hazards for making which make revenge kills kllling much easier. On the flip side, it Dugtrio also pairs well with a Rapid Spinner such as Starmie or a Magic Bounce Pokemon such as Espeon, as Dugtrio is easy set-up fodder for many users of Spikes and Stealth Rock after it has gotten its kill, and the Focus Sash version also needs the field clear of entry hazards in order to work.</p>
  16. Rewer

    Rewer
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    Fight Gem could be an item option since it just OHKOes chansey at 1hp and make reversal waay stronger (use with right hp sub ofcourse)
  17. Omicron

    Omicron
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    It's nearly impossible to get to 1HP without Focus Sash... So Fighting Gem really isn't viable.
  18. Tobes

    Tobes Woo-hoo, woo-hoo, woo-hoo-hoo!
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    SubReversal can very reliably get to 1 HP, and Fighting Gem is just as viable as Expert Belt. Will add it to AC.
  19. gookie

    gookie Adominnustrata
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    a note: you don't need 1 hp for full powered reversals

    so the 21 hp IV is really unecessary; you can still sub down if you take a seismic toss / enter with full hp and end up with 3 hp, will comfortably fits into the 0% - 3.124% for a 200 power reveresal.

    you can, however, use a 30 hp IV, which allows you to switch into SR, making your hp go from 210 --> 197, then allowing you to make 49 hp subs and leave you with 1 hp. the above still applies.

    ignore if i'm wrong, obviously
  20. Tobes

    Tobes Woo-hoo, woo-hoo, woo-hoo-hoo!
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    Sub works off max hp, not current.

    EDIT: ok, removed.
  21. gookie

    gookie Adominnustrata
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    oh, yeah. i think my first point is still valid though
  22. Mynism

    Mynism

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    Sub/Honeclaw needs a mention. A +1 Expert belt Reversal OHKOes any Chansey and most Ferrothorn I've seen and that let you set up on any Wobbufet or Choice using an non-damaging/electric move. Expert belt Reversal +0 kill any Chopple Ttar (not on my computer now so I cant run calcs but Ive been playing this for ages and it always killed). Substitute is also a must when you're playing with a Politoed @ Perish song (Perish song, let Toed die then substall)
  23. Tobes

    Tobes Woo-hoo, woo-hoo, woo-hoo-hoo!
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    Expert Belt Jolly 252 Atk Dugtrio Full Power Reversal vs 252 HP Chople Berry Tyranitar: 86.1% - 101.5%
    So either you're using an Adamant nature of your opponent is using 4 HP Chople Tar (who uses that ?_?)
    Your other suggestions are good though so I'll add them, and also a quick mention of Adamant or SR / Spikes for Chople Tar.
  24. Mynism

    Mynism

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    Oh well look like I'm just lucky
  25. Zystral

    Zystral めんどくさい、な~
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    nicely done.

    2/2

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