Duo Destruction - Awards!

iss

let's play bw lc!
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Mienfoo (F) @ Eviolite
Trait: Inner Focus
EVs: 76 HP / 236 Atk / 196 SDef
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Drain Punch
- Payback
- U-turn
- Taunt

Porygon @ Eviolite
Trait: Trace
EVs: 236 HP / 236 SDef / 36 Spd
Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
- Tri Attack
- Thunder Wave
- Shadow Ball
- Recover

Porygon can beat anything Misdreavus does. Mienfoo wrecks the opposing Porygon. Shadow Ball + Payback will wreck the opposing Misdreavus. Porygon can live 2 Nasty Plot Life Orb HP Fightings, Thunder Wave, Shadow Ball, and then Mienfoo can clean up. Basically you just want to get a Thunder Wave and a Shadow Ball on Misdreavus, and then you're good.
 

Vullaby (F) @ Eviolite Trait: Overcoat
EVs: 196 HP / 236 SDef / 76 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Air Slash
- Dark Pulse
- Toxic
- Roost

Okay, just to clarify, the evs are like this because defense evs don't influence calcs, special attack evs don't influence calcs, and the plus nature for special defense didn't do jack shit, so I just gave it speed.

Here are the sets I'm considering:

Misdreavus :
Standard (Shadow Ball, HP Fighting, Will-o-Wisp, Pain Split, Taunt, Heal Bell)
Life Orb Nasty Plot (Nasty Plot, Shadow Ball, HP Fighting, Substitute, Shadow Sneak)
Specially Defensive (Shadow Ball, HP Fighting, Will-o-Wisp, Pain Split)
Scarf (Shadow Ball, HP Fighting, Trick, Destiny Bond)
RestTalk Calm Mind (Rest, Sleep Talk, Calm Mind, Shadow Ball)

Porygon:
Physically Defensive (Tri Attack, Thunder Wave, Recover, Shadow Ball)
Trick Room (Trick Room, Tri Attack, Shadow Ball, Recover)

Honestly, offensive Porygon sets are bad, so I'm not even looking at them. Well, this Vullaby beats all variants of both aside for if it switches into Trick from Misdreavus or Nasty Plot with Thunderbolt (which just doesn't happen). For those possibilities, I combine this Vullaby with:

Bronzor @ Eviolite
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 220 HP / 228 Def / 4 SAtk / 12 Spd
Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
- Rest
- Sleep Talk
- Calm Mind
- Flash Cannon

In tandem the two always win. If Misdreavus tricks a Choice Scarf to Vullaby, it retaliates my spamming Dark Pulse to 2HKO. Then Bronzor wins. Or, Vullaby beats Misdreavus down. Bronzor can switch in to anything Porygon throws at it, set up, and win.

I don't see how the duo can lose.
 

Ray Jay

"Jump first, ask questions later, oui oui!"
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Oops, looks like you forgot reasoning and stuff... 0 points.

Pro. Looks good, your reasoning is solid and it seems you have taken every competitive set into account. 1 point.

You're bringing sexy sun back, which I like. The logic seems simple enough, and you had counterarguments when necessary. Perhaps if blara was good at debating, you would've missed out, but for this round, you get 1 point.

Wow noob using the most common Pokes ever. Anyways, it seems simple enough just so long as you dont get haxed with HP Fighting / Shadow Ball on the Mienfoo switch. I am a bit concerned as to what you do if Porygon gets Tricked, because then I mean I guess you could lose to Missy if you weren't using such a specially defensive Mienfoo set. Anyways, looks good, 1 point for you.

blara. You haven't accounted for the fact that some standard sets utilize Thunderbolt. What do you do to switch into Misdreavus with Thunderbolt? Can you show me calcs saying Vullaby is not 2hkoed or something cuz right now idgi... sorry im probably just a noob but please enlighten me


No Bonus Points this team because I dont want to!

INSTEAD....

WE WILL HAVE A DD COUNCIL VOTE.

The question is:

Should blarajan get points?
Your yes or no vote with or without reasoning is appreciated. I will remained unbiased and not vote.

After the voting we will move onto Round 7, the final round.


New scoreboard:
iss: 10 (+1)
blarajan: 8 (+?)
Heysup: 7 (+1)
chieliee: 6
Dracoyoshi8: 4 (+1)
elevator_music: 3
corkscrew: 3
Nanoswine: 3
spuds4ever: 2
trakyan: 1
 
Uhhhhhhhhhh

252 SpAtk Misdreavus Thunderbolt vs 196 HP/236 SpDef Eviolite Vullaby: 38.46% - 53.85% (2-3 hits to KO)

Nobody uses Nasty Plot with Thunderbolt, period, and I would argue that that's not viable at all. So if it has Thunderbolt, it's just the standard set with like W-o-W or Split / Shadow Ball / HP Fighting / Thunderbolt, or in some cases Thunderbolt > HP Fighting. I still switch in Vullaby, live a Thunderbolt, see the set, set up with Bronzor, and win?

Honestly though Thunderbolt is just bad on Misdreavus but w/e. Sorry, I lost some steam this round, so I hadn't taken it as seriously as I could have--have had a lot of other things on my mind. Though, NO COMPETITIVE BOOSTING MISDREAVUS USES THUNDERBOLT. That's just true. Calm Mind requires Pain Split (or Rest Talk), and thus prefers the coverage of HP Fighting so it does not lose to Scraggy, and Nasty Plot likes Substitute to get over Murkrow. The only sets of Misdreavus that would have Thunderbolt (and really none should) are standard Eviolite max Special Attack / Speed. If that's the set, and it decides to Thunderbolt the switch into Vullaby, that's cool. Sack Vullaby.

Bring in Bronzor:

252 SpAtk Misdreavus Shadow Ball vs 220 HP/0 SpDef Eviolite Bronzor: 28% - 40%
252 SpAtk Misdreavus Shadow Ball vs 220 HP/0 +1 SpDef Eviolite Bronzor: 24% - 28%

Eat Shadow Ball, use Calm Mind. Eat Shadow Ball, use Calm Mind. Assuming max damage both times and SR, you're at 8 HP. Even with max damage AGAIN, you're at 2 HP when you rest. Then you completely shit on Misdreavus.

Unless you're considering Taunt / Shadow Ball / Thunderbolt / HP Fighting a competitive Misdreavus set. At that point I doubt this assignment.

edit: So yes you're a noob <3
 
You lose completely to Charge Beam Misdreavus (I actually use this set and I peaked #1 a while ago, im currently like #4-5 so it is very competitive and very good).

Vullaby is actually 2HKOed without the boosts (does 10 damage minimum, +6 damage from Stealth Rock = clean 2HKO), but he'll likely get at least one and then Bronzor is straight fucked because it does 15-16 (relatively high chance of 16) per Shadow Ball so it will 2HKO through Calm Mind. If you switch Bronzor into it, he'll take the same damage but 5-6 more because of Charge Beam and one again be 2HKOed.

Additionally, any Life Orb Thunderbolt Misdreavus set fucks you up (including NP, Sub + 3 attacks, and 4 attacks) and yes people use those sets (if you don't like losing to Murkrow, you use Thunderbolt or Charge Beam).

Additionally, you do not have a reliable switch in to Specs Porygon considering you lose to Trick with Bronzor and Thunderbolt/Ice Beam with Vullaby. (also beats iss' core)

Additionally, it loses to Trick Missy + Trick Porygon (and actually so does iss' core).

Obviously I wouldn't vote yes for something that obviously loses....would you?
 
Charge Beam Misdreavus? Specs Porygon? Nasty Plot with Thunderbolt? Life Orb Four Attack? None of those sets are honestly good at all, nor have I seen any of them EVER (and having gotten to higher than 1500 before the ladder reset and quickly gotten to Number 1 after the reset, with over this meta 350 games on ladder, I would think I know what I'm talking about). I'm going to completely disregard LO 4 Attack because lol Murkrow. That's not a good set, nor will anyone ever use it. Specs Porygon lacks Recover and inherently loses to Murkrow and any other attacker this meta tbh, and is not used for those reasons. This meta is not kind to any form of offensive Porygon as its tanking abilities are the only reason it sees any use whatsoever. Specs Porygon is just a free switch in for Misdreavus and Scraggy, and can't check Murkrow in any way shape or form. Also never used, nor any good. Nasty Plot does not use Thunderbolt, plain and simple. +2 HP Fighting will almost OHKO Murkrow after Stealth Rock, so with any form of passive damage, it's gone. Nasty Plot requires Substitute or Destiny Bond or Will-o-Wisp or SOMETHING in order to beat Murkrow. And if you're going to tell me Nasty Plot / Shadow Ball / Thunderbolt / Substitute...I ask you, why? Staryu is 2HKOed by LO Shadow Ball and Shadow Sneak after Stealth Rock, and easily OHKOed at +2. Thunderbolt is entirely unnecessary. Life Orb with Substitute / Shadow Ball / HP Fighting / Thunderbolt sounds cool at first until you realize how unnecessary it actually is since 1) Krow uses Brave Bird on Misdreavus more than Sucker Punch, so that free Substitute would not come 2) Nasty Plot is better?? and 3) HP Fighting almost always 2HKOes (Eviolite) Murkrow after Stealth Rock ANYWAYS. So if you play it well you won't even need Thunderbolt on it.

Now to Charge Beam Misdreavus? The fuck is the point, seriously? And why would it use it? It has Calm Mind, which I would 100% prefer to a 63% of only improving my Special Attack. Furthermore, Misdreavus has better things to do. Seriously, why are you wasting your time using Charge Beam, when Misdreavus has the biggest case of 4MSS in LC? Burning something (like that Murkrow on the switch) is always superior to hoping you grab an OHKO with Charge Beam or w/e because you lose the utility that Misdreavus has against EVERYTHING ELSE. Will-o-Wisp is what makes Misdreavus such a threatening presence. Or you can use, I don't know,Pain Split?? Or how about Taunt? By using Charge Beam for the off chance that you nab a Murkrow on the switch (252 SpAtk Misdreavus Charge Beam vs 36 HP/20 SpDef Eviolite Murkrow: 43.48% - 52.17% (2-3 hits to KO) and not coming close to OHKOing after Stealth Rock, as opposed to providing incredible utility by ensuring 12.5% a turn on anything in a tier without Leftovers and where Sand is an incredibly common battle condition? Okay.

Heysup, the reason that I used the two Pokemon I did is because the sets you listed are not 1) common 2) good. Just because you had a Charge Beam Misdreavus on your team that peaked 1st does not mean it was a good set. It means you're a good player (which you are) and the Little Cup ladder is some balls (which it is). I wasn't tooting to say that I'm the best...it was because I had played so many battles and had NEVER seen any of the sets you mentioned that led to my disbelief.

Misdreavus (and Porygon) have better things to be doing in this metagame than wasting their time on Life Orb Thunderbolt sets, or Charge Beam, or offensive sets in general (Porygon). If those alternatives were either good or useful in this current metagame, I would have taken them into consideration when forming my counters. Since they're not, I see no reason why them being problems should detract from me getting points.
 
You have a point with 4 Attacks Missy but the rest of those are seriously just grasping for straws.

I don't know how you even begin to argue that any Thunderbolt set is completely inferior (what we would call a not competitive option) to a non Thunderbolt set. Would you rather get forced out by a pussy ass eviolite Magnemite or by Murkrow who rapes the entire metagame? Sure HP Fighting makes things somewhat vs Scraggy, but Thunderbolt Missy still does 18-19 average damage to it with a +2 Thunderbolt.....if it's switched into Spikes it's OHKOed, Stealth Rock twice, or Stealth Rock + SS, it's OHKOed too. This means you are basically arguing Murkrow vs Magnemite which is a foolish argument for obvious reasons. Keep in mind I don't even need to prove that Thunderbolt is better (which I've essentially done, though I don't necessarily think that one is ever 100% better than the other) but simply that Thunderbolt is a competitive option.

As for Charge Beam, you've clearly not used it or thought about its benefits before dismissing it for Calm Mind (that is the worst comparison ever). First of all, Charge Beam allows me to Charge Beam and +1 HP Fighting Scraggy for the KO, let's see Calm Mind do that. Second, let's see Calm Mind (or any other set without ChargeBeam/Tbolt....) deal with Murkrow. Charge Beam OHKOes LO Krow 100% of the time with Stealth Rock up (Eviolite Krow is less threatening but also can't tank Charge Beams). What other set can deal with Sucker Punchers, Murkrow, Magneton, Scraggy, Munchlax, and every other Pokemon Misdreavus normally deals with?

EDIT:

And offensive Porygon are obviously not common but that doesn't mean they aren't good. You can't deny that you're switching your Timburr or something into an opponent's Porygon only to get crushed by a Specs Tri Attack is a bad tactic at all.

You also forgot to mention losing to Trick, which you still do (and Choice Scarf Porygon was used as a counter argument for a couple of my original one-mon cores so we are definitely not going to be ignoring that).

Just because they are inconvenient doesn't mean they are bad sets.
 
Nobody said that Thunderbolt is completely inferior. I merely stated that on a Life Orb set, Thunderbolt is inferior. Which it is, to HP Fighting, Will-o-Wisp, Shadow Sneak, Substitute, whatever. (+2 HP Fighting almost OHKOes Murkrow after Stealth Rock ANYWAYS so wgaf? And good luck getting entirely walled by Ferroseed and beaten by Shadow Ball Porygon / Munchlax {though uncommon}). Life Orb DOES NOT NEED NOR WANT Thunderbolt. Other options better assist a sweep, and at +2 HP Fighting or Shadow Ball will almost always do what Thunderbolt does with Stealth Rock down.

Granted, that is more useful than I gave it credit for (Charge Beam). And if I had ever once seen a Charge Beam Misdreavus, or found it becoming a legitimate threat, then I would have taken it into consideration. I'll be trying it out though, so thanks for the tip.

And honestly, Charge Beam would not win if I took the lame way out and used specially defensive Calm Mind Bronzor...

252 SpAtk Misdreavus Charge Beam vs 252 HP/252 SpDef Eviolite Bronzor (+SpDef) : 12% - 16%

252 +1 SpAtk Misdreavus Shadow Ball vs 252 HP/252 SpDef Eviolite Bronzor (+SpDef) : 36% - 48% (3 hits to KO)

I just didn't want to do that since it's lame. None of this discussion would be even happening if I decided to do that. I just purposely decided to not give in to temptation and ignore physical defense 100% because both sets only use special attacks...please don't make me do that because I can you know.

(seriously though Life Orb does not need Thunderbolt, and is less effective with it, and Bronzor beats Eviolite using Thunderbolt, and Bronzor wins even more against everything if I lamed and made it specially defensive which you can do if you really want to...)
 
I'm still standing by rather switching into eviolite Magnemite or Ferroseed than the hardest Pokemon to switch into in LC history with the exception of a few ubers. You haven't proven that it's not a competitive set at any rate. For it to be not a valid competitive set it can't have such important uses. If only we had the Shoddy statistics which would show how often what moves were used.....then one of us would have a much more convincing argument. Until then though, it's competitiveness.

Also I'm not sure if you're using masara's calc but I get this:

252 SpAtk Life Orb Misdreavus Charge Beam vs 252 HP/252 SpDef Eviolite Bronzor (+SpDef) : 16% - 20%

Possible HP Damage: 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 5, 5, 5, 5

252 +1 SpAtk Life Orb Misdreavus Shadow Ball vs 252 HP/252 SpDef Eviolite Bronzor (+SpDef) : 48% - 60%
2-3 hits to KO

Possible HP Damage: 12, 12, 13, 13, 13, 13, 13, 13, 13, 13, 13, 13, 15, 15, 15, 15

Detailed Result:
252 +1 SpAtk Life Orb Misdreavus Shadow Ball vs 252 HP/252 +1 SpDef Eviolite Bronzor (+SpDef) : 36% - 40%
3 hits to KO

Possible HP Damage: 9, 9, 9, 9, 9, 10, 10, 10, 10, 10, 10, 10, 10, 10, 10, 10

After Charge Beam (4) + Stealth Rock (1) Bronzor is sitting at 20 HP. He's not going to be able to Calm Mind on the next turn because 13 (+1 vs +0) + 10 (+1 vs +1) is > 20 and the +1 Shadow Ball is almost certainly a 2HKO if you Rest, but a 3HKO would still beat you once rested.

So even with the lame SpD Bronzor you can't beat Charge Beam or Thunderbolt Misdreavus. Seeing as our task was to beat competitive sets and you haven't shown how those two sets are not competitive, my point still stands. Let's just say that Ray Jay has seen it on the ladder a couple times already.

(you may not have seen my edit, but two tricks can beat your team too, though it's kind of a strange scenario in which prediction is heavily involved - if that was the only problem with the core I'd vote yes)
 

Furai

we will become who we are meant to be
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I am voting no, Ray Jay! If giving points is a must though, would 0.00000000000000000001 suffice?
 

iss

let's play bw lc!
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No. Nasty Plot Thunderbolt is viable enough that I don't think you can just count it out. Thunderbolt is a decently common move, and I have seen people decide to run it over HP Fighting.
 
Why can I not ignore sets that are both unnecessary and never seen? I have never seen these Thunderbolt sets...ever, and Heysup's set is so infrequently used that I sign didn't even know that Misdreavus learned Charge Beam until now. Life Orb sets are still the most difficult things to switch into with Hidden Power Fighting, in the entire meta, really. Thunderbolt doesn't assist that...instead it detracts from that by letting common Pokemon consistently beat it. With Stealth Rock, no common Pokemon beats Nasty Plot with HP Fighting. Only smart play does.

As for you, Heysup, I didn't include Life Orb in my calculations since you never mentioned it, though now that I think about it it makes more sense with Life Orb.

But I really don't know why I should be penalized for not being able to beat an inferior and extremely uncommon set of moves? Else Heysup gets demolished by Toxic Porygon, which while "usable" isn't as viable as its other options! Which I could have easily brought up...if it was actually sen, or actually good.
 
But I really don't know why I should be penalized for not being able to beat an inferior and extremely uncommon set of moves?
You aren't.

You're not getting points for losing to competitive Misdreavus sets. Until you can prove otherwise (which honestly, you can't because we've gone over the facts) this is just a strawman.

I also think you're forgetting that Nasty Plot Misdreavus can (and people do use this) use 3 attacks without suiciding to Sucker Punch which lets it deal with Murkrow AND all of the HP Fighting mons. It's even listed as the primary option on the analysis.....obviously a large enough group of people (QCers) agreed with me here.

I think the other votes speak for themselves on this issue. I'm more posting to convince you now than to convince the others, who already seemed convinced.
 

Ray Jay

"Jump first, ask questions later, oui oui!"
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I hope you all realize this was just me poking fun at blarajan. Obviously the people say no, but we will give him the good sport award of .5 points. Final round coming soon.
 
That analysis both lists Eviolite as the primary slash and does not include Substitute. It also went up before I was on QC, meaning it's instantly stupid.

edit: Looking at the analysis...the whole thing needs a huge revamp, oh my.

edit2: I actually started doing calcs and Heysup just use Nasty Plot Misdreavus > Charge Beam?? +2 HP Fighting beats Scraggy, Murkrow, Magnemite, Munchlax, and beats everything that standard Misdreavus has to deal with anyways??? Except it's actually reliable??????

(also +2 LO Thunderbolt doesn't OHKO Scraggy after Stealth Rock even with max damage so get the hell at me...HP Fighting does! Just add that to the list of Pokemon you can't reliably beat now.)
 

Ray Jay

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Lileep @ Eviolite
Calm | Storm Drain
evs: 228 HP / 144 Def / 28 SpA / 64 SpD / 16 Spe
move 1: Stealth Rock
move 2: Energy Ball
move 3: Recover
move 4: Toxic

Slowpoke @ Eviolite
Bold | Regenerator
evs: 116 HP / 236 Def / 36 SpA / 116 SpD
move 1: Scald
move 2: Psychic
move 3: Slack Off
move 4: Fire Blast


Reminders:
-Back up your post with reasoning and calcs.
-Assume Stealth Rock is on your side but not the opponent's, unless you have a Pokemon that can set up.
-Assuming the sand spdef boost for Lileep is not necessary, but will definitely help your case.
 

prem

failed abortion
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scraggy? probably lo idk ima put calcs down you can say i die somehow and then ill go use evio dd lol


scraggy @ eviolite
adamant
shed skin
236 atk / 36 spd / 212 spe
-drain punch
-crunch
-hi jump kick
-Dragon Dance

if you suck at prediction use shed skin, if not you can probably use moxie and win 99% of the time. bs lo loses sometimes cause of lo damage.

first: dd
to lileep: drain punch drain punch drain punch
to slowpoke: crunch crunch

so basically both of them 3hko at best so just dd and then spam the super effective move until you win.
 
Munchlax (M) @ Eviolite Trait: Thick Fat
EVs: 236 Atk / 36 Def / 236 SDef
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Rest
- Curse
- Ice Punch (I could use Amnesia here to do better since Frustration can still KO Lileep, but this is a better set)
- Frustration

0 Happiness

Can't die vs anything. +4 Ice Punch OHKOes Lileep and +5 Frustration OHKOes Slowpoke though technically I only need +1 to 2HKO either of them to the point where they can't attack.

Energy Ball does 6 damage (5HKO) and Psychic does 4 damage (8HKO).

And yes, using Munchlax and Hippopotas 6 times total is impressive.
 
solosis


Solosis (M) @ Eviolite
Trait: Magic Guard
EVs: 236 HP / 36 Def / 196 SDef / 40 Spd
Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
- Calm Mind
- Recover
- Psyshock
- Shadow Ball

Since they both can only fire off weak attacks and neither boost in either way Solosis is capable of winning. So you switch in, Recover

36 SpAtk Slowpoke Scald vs 236 HP/196 SpDef Eviolite Solosis (+SpDef) : 25% - 29.17% (4 hits to KO)
28 SpAtk Lileep Giga Drain vs 236 HP/196 SpDef Eviolite Solosis (+SpDef) : 25% - 29.17% (4 hits to KO)

i might have run the calc wrong, but from what I see I can just switch in, boost and sweep them with ease as they cant stop me
 

iss

let's play bw lc!
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natu


Natu @ Eviolite
Calm | Magic Bounce
evs: 196 HP / 40 SpA / 240 Spe
move 1: Calm Mind
move 2: Hidden Power Flying
move 3: Roost
move 4: anything

Magic Bounce fucks over Lileep. Scald doesn't kill even in the case of a critical hit + burn AND you suck so Lileep got Stealth Rock down. Just Roost up and Calm Mind up. A critical hit Scald only does ~50% max. Run whatever you want in the last slot, although FeatherDance and Substitute are probably the best options. Substitute has the added benefit of protecting you from critical hits, as well as Scald burns.
 
Shroomish (M) @ Eviolite Trait: Poison Heal
EVs: 116 HP / 196 SDef / 116 Def / 80 Spd
Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
- Spore
- Toxic

- Giga Drain
- Synthesis


yeah, this thing walls them, doesnt care about toxic from lileep, it wants it. Spore is there cause its spore, toxic is good to to abuse dem natu. Spore slowpoke if your paranoid about burns(which wont really do much). Giga drain slowpoke to death, toxic lileep and stall if with giga drain and synthesis. Slowpoke needs two max damage rolls to 2HKO with fire blast and giga drain brings you out to 2HKO range anyways, and you can spore it for free turns anyway.
 

Al_Alchemist

Physics and Math \O/
is a Past SPL Champion
Hmm, a bit easy RayJay, you could have at least made Lileep some kind of ResTalk and/or Curse/SD creation possibly with Sandstorm, just to trim down the random anti-status Pokemon with Toxic/stat-up moves.

WAIT SCREW CLEFFA I THINK ILL RESERVE BRONZOR OR MUNNA INSTEAD DISREGARD BELOW

edit: fuck it ill just go with cleffa, just know that recycle oran calm mind signal beam bronzor woulda done some damage and even counter consecutive amount of crit/burn/sp def drops or something but that doesn't matter..


Cleffa (F) @ Eviolite
Trait: Magic Guard
EVs: 196 HP / 76 SpA / 236 SpD
Calm Nature (+SpD, -Atk)
- Wish
- Toxic
- Signal Beam
- Protect

I was going to try to attack a 100% win ratio when considering critical hits or special defense drops, but then I realized how hard that would be to pull off even when looking at extreme counter sets like defensive Stunky or Vullaby, so I'm just going to stick with Cleffa.

What they can do to Cleffa

Magic Guard negates all status and hazard damage from LilePoke's Toxic and burn-inducing moves, as well as Stealth Rock and Sandstorm.

Both Lileep and Slowpoke's strongest moves, Energy Ball and Psychic respectively, do a max of 7 damage (out of 24) on the highest damage roll (excluding a critical hit). This means they will both fail to even 3HKO Cleffa.

Should Cleffa switch into a critical hit, it could just Wish + Protect off the damage, as the most it could do would be 15 damage. Also, if Energy Ball or Psychic happens to lower Cleffa's special defense, the max damage roll would be pushed to 10 damage, a 3HKO, but can still be worked around with Wish + Protect. Cleffa can only be defeated by a significant amount of unlikely SpD lowering or SpD lowering + critical hits.​

What Cleffa can do to them

The first move on either of them would be to use Toxic and then to spam Signal Beam, only stopping if you're damaged and want to use Wish (and Protect), to use Toxic on a Lileep or Slowpoke that is status free, you ran out of PP, or they're both dead.

LilePoke will eventually be defeated due to a combination of Toxic and Signal Beam. Confusion chance is annoying and Signal Beam does a minimum of 10 damage on Slowpoke.
 
Misdreavus (F) @ Eviolite
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 196 HP / 36 Def / 236 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Sleep Talk
- Rest
- Calm Mind
- Shadow Ball

Lileep Energy Ball vs +0 Misdreavus: 13 Atk vs 22 Def & 25 HP (80 Base Power): 6 - 7 (24.00% - 28.00%)
Slowpoke Psychic vs +0 Misdreavus: 11 Atk vs 22 Def & 25 HP (95 Base Power): 6 - 7 (24.00% - 28.00%)

Has no trouble boosting up on either of the mons. Doesn't need a lot of boosts to OHKO Slowpoke, while Lileep can be 2HKO'd at +3, and a sure 2hko at +4

also it fits in the metagame really well etc etc etc


oopsies, blarajan reserved missy

Spoink (M) @ Eviolite
Trait: Thick Fat
EVs: 196 HP / 76 Def / 196 SAtk / 36 SDef
Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
- Rest
- Sleep Talk
- Psychic
- Calm Mind

same for missy, don't have time to do calcs now but i think they're exactly the same. I think spoink can 2hko slowpoke at +6
 

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