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DuskMod: A major modification to the standard metagame

Discussion in 'Pet Mods' started by Dusk209, Oct 19, 2012.

  1. Dusk209

    Dusk209 No relation.
    is a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus

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    Nollan, I'd appreciate it if you didn't make announcements for me, especially if they are wrong. No new generations of pokemon are in development for DM, at least not for a while.
  2. Nollan

    Nollan EV Master Nollan
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    Well, ok. Gotcha. Misheard, I guess. Is Sinnoh next (when you get to it) or no?
  3. The Dark Hero

    The Dark Hero

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    isn't Glaciate supposed to be Kyurem's signature move? You really shouldn't be giving it to random Pokes.

    Also, I LOL'd at DD Flareon.
  4. Dusk209

    Dusk209 No relation.
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    For legendary signature moves, I could always replace them with other moves that have similar effects and then buff said moves, but for now flavor is the least of my worries.

    The only reason Flareon got Dragon Dance is to differentiate it from Arcanine.

    Also, gen 4 IS the next planned generation due to the addition of perma sand and perma hail.
  5. Worldtour

    Worldtour left: Hitmonchan right: rest of RU
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    How does Paraect get Horn Leech when it has no horns?

    I'm probably going to get around to playing on this server though - it looks really cool!

    EDIT: I bet Beedrill got Anger Point cause he's mad since he got almost no additional moves and Butterfree got tons of stuff
  6. The Dark Hero

    The Dark Hero

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    Does Eevee get DD as an Egg Move? (I don't see Flareon learning it by Level...)

    DD Leafeon could wreak some havoc in the sun...
  7. Nozzle

    Nozzle

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    Oh jeez. Some things really stand out to me.


    Lunar Dance: +1 Sp.a, +1 Speed

    Finally a Special DD not limited to bugs and Lilligant.

    Drought, Drizzle, Sand Stream, and Snow Warning: Last 5 turns unless holding a weather rock.

    This would mean the metagame would be less weather centered. I like it!

    Gust: no damage, removes hazards (no, it can't be spinblocked)
    Barrage: 25bp, Fighting, Hits 2-5 times
    Rage: 100bp, 100acc, normal type, confuses the user on use
    Poison Jab: +1 Priority, 50bp, cannot poison

    Can't wait to try these out.

    Blastoise: [​IMG]
    Stats: 92/74/110/94/110/60 BST = 540
    Ability: Torrent / Rain Dish / Shell Armor
    Movepool: +Shell Smash

    Kingler: [​IMG]
    Stats: 70/130/110/27/68/82 BST = 487
    Ability: Shell Armor
    Movepool: +Shell Smash

    Omastar: [​IMG]
    Ability: Shell Armor/Swift Swim
    Movepool: +Paleo Wave

    Shell Armor: Shell Smash is altered: +1atk, +1spa, +2spe. Def and spd do not get reduced.

    Oh Jesus Christ. Aren't these things gonna be broken like hell?

    Tentacruel:[​IMG]
    Stats: 90/70/65/80/120/100
    Ability: Rain Dish/Regenerator
    Movepool: +Thunder Wave

    Oh dear god. The only thing this thing lacked was good recovery outside of rain. Now it has it.

    Blissey: [​IMG]
    Stats: 255/10/10/90/135/40 BST = 545
    Ability: Natural Cure/Regenerator
    Moves: +Baton Pass

    Regenerator Bliss... I'm speechless.

    Mr. Mime: [​IMG]
    Stats: 80/25/85/100/130/90 BST = 510
    Ability: Illusion/Magic Bounce

    Illusion Mr. Mime seems interesting. Gotta try it out. Magic Bounce doesn't seem bad either.

    Pinsir [​IMG]
    Type: Bug/Dark
    Stats: 80/140/100/55/90/75 BST =
    Ability: Shed Skin/Intimidate
    Movepool: +Poison Jab, +Sucker Punch, +Night Slash, +Stone Edge, +Quick Attack (Level up)

    I got excited when i saw the typing and the moves added. But why did Moxie get removed?

    Gyarados: [​IMG]
    Ability: Moxie/Intimidate/Water Veil
    Movepool: +Sky Attack

    Someone just got a good double STAB.

    Zapdos: [​IMG]
    Stats: 90/90/85/125/90/100
    Ability: Volt Absorb
    If Zapdos holds the Damp Rock, rain is automatically summoned for 3 turns
    Movepool: +Hurricane

    This might be good. But I think it will be a gimmick.

    Cinccino [​IMG]
    Stats: 75/110/60/60/60/125
    Abiities: Skill Link/Technician
    Movepool: +Icicle Spear, +Barrage

    Goodbye Bullet Seed. Goodbye Wake-Up Slap.

    Ferrothorn: [​IMG]
    Ability: Iron Barbs/Battle Armor
    Movepool: +Rapid Spin

    This blew my mind. Rapid Spin? The only thing this guy lacked was rapid spin. >:O

    Mienshao: [​IMG]
    Ability: Technician/Regenerator/Reckless
    Stats: 65/125/60/95/85/105
    Movepool: +Doubleslap, +Icy Wind

    Interesting Technician user over here.

    Bisharp: [​IMG]
    Ability: Moxie/Analytic
    Stats: 70/125/115/60/70/70

    This seems like an excellent TR sweeper.

    Conkeldurr: [​IMG]
    Ability: Guts/Sheer Force/Oblivious
    Sheer force boosts hammer arm damage because of the hammer arm buff
    Movepool: +Sucker Punch

    Hammer Arm: Added 20% chance to lower opponent's speed

    This looks really good!

    Genesect: [​IMG]
    Ability: Motor Drive
    Movepool: -Explosion, +Self Destruct

    Yes! Thank god Download is gone.

    All in all this looks really fun!
  8. tehy

    tehy

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    I've always thought that ferrothorn having rapid spin was the weak link in the OU metagame, but gust seems a little cheap to me-unblockable hazards removal? Someone can spend several turns setting hazards, and you can unstoppably blow them away in one?

    And considering arm thrust exists, you might want to sub that in for barrage? Poison jab also seems a little strong for a priority.

    Btw, ignore anyone who complains about no crits. In a game like pokemon, where correct predictions can turn the tables in a second, there will always be suspense, unless you've nearly beaten someone. We could add in suspense by making one person randomly crash too. It's the worst part of the game and taking it out improves it immensely.
  9. MrCookie

    MrCookie

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    moxie on pinsir got removed because of bisharp. trust me, moxie+suckerpunch=fun
  10. MrCookie

    MrCookie

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    also, gust is tauntable
  11. Nozzle

    Nozzle

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    I know that moxie plus SP is fun. Hi Honchkrow.
  12. NoelYoshi

    NoelYoshi

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    Blissey (F) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Regenerator
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 Def / 252 SDef
    Calm Nature
    - Wish
    - Heal Bell
    - Seismic Toss
    - Toxic

    A great Special Wall, Wish user, and Cleric all in one, Blissey returns to take on the Supporting Wall role. Wish from its massive HP will usually refill a Pokemon's HP more than half, but usually it will even go to full. Heal Bell heals the Toxic and Will-o-Wisp effects that are more common with their perfect Accuracy. Seismic Toss is good for steady damage, but Flamethrower is an option if you want to make use of Blissey's new 90 Base Sp. Atk. Finally, Toxic allows you to rack up damage while supporting/walling.
  13. Dusk209

    Dusk209 No relation.
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    I haven't had enough playtesting with these 3 to say if they're OP or not, but they haven't been that overpowered.
    Pinsir doesn't have moxie because I wanted to differentiate it from heracross. Also, there are a LOT of moxie users, so I didn't want to add more.

    It's actually very powerful, and not a gimmick - the combo of thunder and hurricane is great, and although 3 turns doesn't sound like a lot it can help pokemon like venusaur and kabutops revenge kill after the weather-bird dies.
    Using standard items isn't useless, however. A scarfed eruption moltres is scary.

    Actually, bisharp can sweep even outside of trick room using sucker punch+moxie.
    I'm actually considering giving it download again and nerfing it in terms of movepool. At the moment, Genesect is very overshadowed by the new threats.
    What do you think?
  14. ElectivireRocks

    ElectivireRocks Banned deucer.

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    I have a couple of suggestions.

    About freeze: not sure how I feel about its removal. It has a bad reputation for being "haxy" because there is no reliable way to inflict it.
    However, compared to Gen 5 Sleep, I'd say it is not as powerful.
    The new Sleep mechanics can cause a pokemon to be permanently out of commission for the rest of the match unless it stays in (becoming setup fodder), while freeze can potentially be cured on the same turn it was inflicted.
    On top of it, anything that knows Scald, Flare Blitz, Fusion Flare, Sacred Fire or Flame Wheel is essentially immune to freeze. Of these moves only Flame Wheel is useless, while two are extremely common (especially on water and fire types, both of which have little trouble against ice types) and two are given to powerful legendaries and see a lot of use regardless, so they can act as freeze absorbers in ubers.

    Which leads me to the next point: how about turning Sheer Cold into a freeze move? It doesn't have to be 100% accurate - after all moves like Sing and Sleep Powder are still implemented in this mod and they can potentially make or break a battle.
    It would give ice types a useful niche, while still being kept in check by the aformentioned fire and water types (and other ice types, since they're immune to freeze).
    Kyogre would admittedly be broken, but in that case you could just remove Sheer Cold from it.

    The next point is about ice types themselves - an extra resistance would be nice. I'd dare say Dragon would be the most appropriate. In theory they're supposed to be dragon "counters", in practice they're destroyed by STAB Outrages and Draco Meteors.
    They would certainly not replace steel types because their defensive type would still be bad.

    That's all, I think.
    Good job for the mod, it seems a lot of fun and it's pleasantly refreshing to see different pokemon other than the usual 20 top OU's being used more often.
  15. MrCookie

    MrCookie

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    actually, i would think that a resistance to water and grass would be more appropriate on ice, due to flavor
  16. Dusk209

    Dusk209 No relation.
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    The problem with freeze is that it, unlike sleep, can last as long as the RNG wants it to. This turns it into the kind of thing that ruins matches and pisses everyone off. Also, not every pokemon runs a thawing move, and to be honest, a LOT of people don't even know that mechanic exists. Freeze as a concept is pointless and frustrating, especially when nobody intends to inflict it in the first place - they just want to hit you with an ice attack.

    Implementing a freeze status move would allow players to bypass the sleep clause. Unless of course, I code in a "Sleep / Freeze Clause," but that would be just silly.

    Also, freeze is still stupid even if it has a reliable status move for it.

    These ideas could work, although I don't like changing the type chart too much - I only did it for poison because it was arguably the worst type ever.

    Mostly because it needed a better STAB than seed bomb, and because I think more about gameplay than I do about flavor.

    Beedrill did get a big buff:
    Ability: Anger Point / Sniper

    Twineedle - 20 BP Always Crits (2 hits)

    Essentially, it gets a 120bp bug type move with no downside, which also works well against substitute users and defensive boosters.
  17. Yarnus of Bethany

    Yarnus of Bethany

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    How would you compare this project to genNext?
    Are your goals different?
    Why use this mod rather than that?
    Why do you change stats instead of other things?
  18. akela

    akela

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    ... Moves, abilities, pokemon abilities, movesets and items are also changed. What else would you want him to change? How algebra is performed?
  19. Yarnus of Bethany

    Yarnus of Bethany

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    GenNext also changes all of the above. Why is this better?
  20. ElectivireRocks

    ElectivireRocks Banned deucer.

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    Pardon the ignorance, what's GenNext?
  21. Yarnus of Bethany

    Yarnus of Bethany

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  22. tehy

    tehy

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    A different person made different changes to an incredibly complex system.

    Why is GenNext better?

    Edit: No crits. That's the number one improvement to ever happen, ever. No more game-ruining bullshit where you outthought and out-strategized your opponent, only to get fucked in the ass by the gods of luck. No more making perfectly logical moves that look stupid, only for the surprise to be ruined. Crits take a game full of strategy, thought, and prediction, and add a major, random advantage to one side. Same goes for freezes. Even if that was the only change, it'd be 200% better than Gennext.

    Double Edit: You might not have intended for it to happen, but it totally did. And no they cannot akela, Duskmod will destroy GenNext and feed upon its remains, growing ever stronger... until not even Gamefreak itself rivals its ungodly might.
  23. Dusk209

    Dusk209 No relation.
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    from the faq, which was around for a while but I've just added to the main post:

    Also, some more huge differences between gen next and this:
    • No Crits
    • Auto transform into Darmanitan-Z without use of that stupid Zen Mode ability everyone hates
    • Gameplay is paid attention to more than Flavor (for the most part)
    • Focus on one generation at a time in order to ensure balance
    • Much more different than the standard games
  24. akela

    akela

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    I feel like I must ask. Why do you need to compare this to Gen Next? Can the two mods not coexist? Should we not enjoy both of them?
  25. Arizona

    Arizona

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    First of all, this is a very cool idea that has my support. I have never sympathized with the arguments that "hax is a part of pokemon." Yes it is. A bad part. In fact the number of ways one can outplay the opponent yet still lose is probably the worst part of pokemon. Illness is a part of life; I suppose we should also give up trying to cure diseases? Hax is a blight on the good parts of the game: team building, metagame analysis, prediction, and mindgames.

    And guess what isn't "part of the game?" Tiers. Sleep Clause. I guess the cartrige metagame can be improved on, huh?

    Is there any broad metagame analysis for this yet? A viability ranking list would be a cool objective that would help new players orient themselves. It sounds premature, but frankly other tier's viability ranking are living, changing lists as well. It would help direct research into new sets.

    I'll start with some guesses at S, in order of most to least likely in my mind.

    Chandelure: Shadow Tag>>>Trick+Calm Mind+15SpA. With a Scarf, Chandelure puts even the buffed Dugtrio to shame. Shed Shell + Flash Fire poke is an effective lure to it (lol), but otherwise a huge number of pokemon are easy pickings.

    Dragonite/Haxorus: With no perma-rain, Chandelure will find it easier to remove the limited number of Kanto and Unova steel types than even Magnezone would, clearing the way for one of these two to Outrage to victory. Chandelure can also counter-revenge Ice types with ease. Outrage is better than Draco Meteor because 'Lure and Mag are naturally talented at removing physical walls. DragMagLure could be a team to watch out for.

    Keldeo: Didn't gain too much, but lost three gens worth of competition. Rain is gone, but Ice Beam and Water Absorb are comforting consolations: I think only Jellicent can resist Water/Fight/Ice coverage. Scratch that, there's Tentacruel, the Slowbrothers, and Starmie. Still, you aren't likely to find more than one per team and Electric does a number on all of Keldeo's counters.

    Mr. Mime and/or Cryogonal: Very good special walls with the best ability for walls--maybe even the best ability of all. Both can set up dual screens. Mr. Mime has many advantages--typing, offensive movepool, Nasty Plot, Baton Pass--but Cryogonal has a saving grace: Recover. Cryogonal can Toxic stall and is harder to wear down. These two will compete, but I expect at least one to end up here. Sorry Espeon, you just don't have the bulk. Maybe you'll make A-rank.

    Candidates for top physical sweepers: Krookodile, Klinklang, Shell Smashers, Sawsbuck. I have no idea which will come out on top: Krook is a runaway train; Klink and the Smashers have premier boosting capability and solid typing defensively; and Sawsbuck is an Extremekiller lookalike with 120 base attack, a newly 90BP Horn Leech, STAB Extremespeed, Swords Dance, and a choice of good coverage.

    Mew: The biggest things helping Mew are the no shows from Johto, Hoenn, and Sinnoh. That said, Wonder Skin is a nice upgrade from Synchronize, and Psystrike is a fantastic attack for a Nasty Plot set to breeze past special walls. Mr. Mime can block it only temporarily. #151 is versatile and unpredictable as ever.

    An all out attacker could end up S-rank as well.

    A category I'm not seeing any S-rank material is physical wall. Rhyperior, Weezing, Tangrowth, Steelix, Ferrothorn, Mandibuzz, and Cofagrigus are the pokes I'm noticing, but none scream "Top level" to me. Mandibuzz and Weezing are the only possibilities: Chandelure won't pick them off in one hit and they have good abilities.

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