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Dust Bowl Dancing

Discussion in 'BW OU Teams' started by Mazz, Nov 4, 2012.

  1. Mazz

    Mazz Retired
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    DUST BOWL DANCING

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    Introduction:

    After having great success with Molti Soli, I quickly retreated back into the Underused tier, away from the clusterfuck that had become the Overused tier. With Garchomp having been unbanned, I'm poking my head back into this tier which seems to still need to get its shit together. However, using less-common elements brought by BW2 and a few uncommon sets, I'm beginning to like how the "new" tier plays out, and am slowly beginning to retract my statements about OU.

    My new team, Dust Bowl Dancing, plays off of the recent unbanning of Garchomp while attempting to make Sand Stream teams less reliant on the same 8-10 Pokemon. It features a reliable way to bypass the Deoxys-D spam currently besieging the tier while utilizing a strong physical threat and underrated revenge killer to quickly and effectively pick apart teams. Dust Bowl Dancing also holds a mild defensive core that can stomach hits from most common attackers. However, despite these elements, I've been unable to break 1700 points on the PS! Ladder and feel that the team itself isn't anywhere near completion - I find myself losing a lot of momentum against the likes of Genesect, Rotom-W, and other fast U-turners or Volt Switchers and tend to have issues against fast setup sweepers. I've tried running a few different sets on each Pokemon and have run a few other Pokemon in general, but this variant is what I found to be the most successful so far.​

    Team-Building Process:

    1.[​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    The initial variant of the team, which was for the most part relatively successful. However, it had too many threats and was unable to break the 1700 point plateau, which is actually relatively pathetic by my standards. So, as any lazy human being would, I turned to the Smogon RMT section to get opinions on what should be changed instead of just fixing it myself. It's a hell of a lot easier and a few ideas had been suggested that I didn't think of. Less than 24 hours however, this would all come to change.​

    2.[​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    Glancing back and forth between the original variant and this variant of the team, only one immediate change can be seen, Terrakion in place of Gastrodon. While this is true, every member on the team experienced some form of a set change, which changed the dynamic of my team. It became much more offensive , using status to generate set up opportunities and four relatively powerful attackers to smash through opposing teams. This variant has broken the plateau of 1700 on my testing alt and is nearing closer to the 1800 plateau. However, there still are some threats that need to be adressed, and a few other team members that were proposed that I hold some curiosity in.​

    In-Depth:

    [​IMG]
    Tyranitar @ Shed Shell
    Sand Stream
    252 HP / 64 SpA / 192 SpD
    Sassy Nature
    - Stealth Rock
    - Crunch
    - Fire Blast
    - Ice Beam


    Arguably one of my top 10 favourite Pokemon, Tyranitar has always had a welcome spot on any of my OU teams. Its sleek design, great stats, and a continuous presence on the metagame has left it a place in my heart. this team is no exception to this either, as Tyranitar once again performs as my weather setter and lure, allowing my team to put up a fight against the likes of opposing weather, Skarmory, and Gliscor. Thanks to Sand Stream and the EV placement, Tyranitar also functions more or less as the team's special tank, typically being thrown out against many special attackers found in the tier, such as Volcarona and Thundurus-T. Thanks to Shed Shell, Tyranitar can typically stick around longer against Sun Teams, helping me win the weather war.

    Like many Tyranitar of this design, it's designed to last quite a long time provided I play intelligently. However, I've found on this team Tyranitar's moveset has strictly limited what it can do for the team. Stealth Rock provides the team with entry hazards to abuse, making the opposition easier to dispose of. However, with Deoxys-D being as common as it is, Xatu typically bounces them back before Tyranitar sets them. Crunch is used for eliminating Psychic- and Ghost-type Pokemon such as Latios and Gengar, giving Breloom and Garchomp more room to spam their powerful Low Sweep and Earthquake respectively. Fire Blast and Ice Beam have even stricter uses, being directed towards Gliscor, Landorus-I and Landorus-T, Skarmory, and weakened Ferrothorn. With those Pokemon out of the picture, the battlefield tends to become much safer for Breloom and Garchomp to do what they need to do and bring me towards the win.​

    [​IMG]
    Garchomp @ Leftovers
    Rough Skin
    4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
    10 Def IVs
    Jolly Nature
    - Swords Dance
    - Outrage
    - Earthquake
    - Fire Fang


    Another one of my top 10 favourites, the unbanning of Rough Skin Garchomp was joyous news for me. It's practically what got me back into OU after having completed my tutoring with PDC. The irony behind this however, is that I've never before used Garchomp in standard before, only in DW OU when I discovered it was legal there. With its excellent statpool and STAB, I've found Garchomp to be the biggest success story on this team, pulling me back from many 6-1 or 5-1 deficits only to win the match.

    I've found this set, which is probably the standard set, relatively easy to set up, as it tends to force switches. Once behind a Swords Dance, Garchomp can and sometimes does win the entire match itself. Outrage, being as stupidly powerful as it is, tends to be my money shot, eliminating only the last 2 or 3 Pokemon left on the opposition's side. Earthquakeand Fire Fang are Garchomp's meat and potatoes, primarily being used up until the point Steel-types are eliminated or only Ground-type immune Pokemon remain. Garchomp has proven time and time again to be a class-act during the late-game, quickly tearing through the remainder of teams once faster threats are gone.​

    [​IMG]
    Jirachi @ Choice Scarf
    Serene Grace
    252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spd
    Jolly Nature
    - Iron Head
    - U-turn
    - Fire Punch
    - Trick


    We all know Jirachi in general is a bitch. The ability to render anything useless due to hax is what it's always been known for, which I view as unfair. It's also a great revenge killer that doesn't need to rely on hax to eliminate key threats. It has well-rounded stats and an excellent movepool to work with, and has been clutch in quite a few situations. I'm not gonna lie either, the occasional flinch isn't that bad either, as it basically turns a 2HKO into an OHKO. Hate it or love it, it does its job.

    As mentioned, Jirachi's coverage and stats make it a wonderful revenge killer, allowing me to remove many key threats. Iron Head is the STAB move of choice, allowing me to beat on things such as Mamoswine, Tyranitar, and Terrakion. The 60% flinch rate is handy for breaking things that don't resist it, but do live one. U-turn gives Jirachi the ability to function as a scout, bringing my team swings of momentum. It's also handy for picking weakened threats off. Despite being the 3rd and 4th moves, Fire Punch is super useful for picking off opposing Genesect, Scizor, Ferrothorn, and other Pokemo weak to Fire-type attacks. Trick is a neat little kick in the shins that stops many walls and setup sweepers cold, giving my team a lot more room to do what it needs to do. I enjoy using the surprise factor of Choice Scarf Jirachi, but wish it hit harder.​

    [​IMG]
    Breloom @ Choice Band
    Technician
    4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
    Jolly Nature
    - Low Sweep
    - Mach Punch
    - Bullet Seed
    - Spore


    The third and final of my favourtie Pokemon to be found on this RMT, Technician Breloom is one of those Pokemon I've always wanted to try using, but never really got around to doing so. Being equally powerful as Scizor while having better offensive typing is nothing to scoff at. Breloom has single-handedly opened up the opposing team to allow Garchomp to sweep, whether it be by eliminating Slowbro, Gastrodon, or Mamoswine, he's done it. I absolutely love Breloom and how it works on this team, and I wasn't sure on how powerful it actually was until I watched it to 50% damage to a Ferrothorn with Bullet Seed (a couple crits, but holy shit that's a lot for a 4x resist). At first, Breloom was here to take weak Water- and /or Electric-type attacks that are common on Rain Teams, but it's taken on more of a sweeper role thanks to its brilliant power.

    Breloom is a powerhouse. Low Sweep is a fan-fucking-tastic move that allows Breloom to nab faster threats on the switch-in, flip them the highway salute, and kick their teeth in with Low Sweep again. Mach Punch is another big "fuck you" to the metagame, being able to bypass its low Speed and pick off faster and more frail opponents, such as Jolteon, Genesect, and the occasional Mamoswine. Bullet Seed, if I'm lucky to get 5 hits, delivers a whopping base 281 base damage, which is absolutely insane. Suck on that Scizor! It's a great move for crushing Ground-, Rock-, and Water-type Pokemon, KOing 252/252 Slowbro in 3 hits. Spore gives Garchomp a multitude of opportunities to set up, typically closing games out early. It's also useful for removing pesky Pokemon if my team is having troubles with them. I've been very impressed with this Pokemon to say the least.​

    [​IMG]
    Terrakion @ Choice Scarf
    Justified
    252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
    Jolly Nature
    - Close Combat
    - Rock Slide
    - X-Scissor
    - Earthquake


    While I'd rather not be stuck with a standard sun team, I must admit that Terrakion has been nothing but a force against the opposition in place of Gastrodon. It's left my team with yet another fast and powerful hitter and a way around fast, powerful Pokemon that normally gave my team hell. Its provided to be an excellent addition, making the lives of Breloom, Garchomp, and Jirachi phenomenally easier.

    Thanks to its powerful STAB moves, Close Combat and Rock Slide, not a whole hell of a lot likes having to switch in on Terrakion. It provides coverage against the vast majority of the tier, blasting through many problem Pokemon this team faced before, namely Salamence, Dragonite, and Haxorus. X-Scissor is here to hit Slowbro and other bulky Psychic-types, but doesn't see much action. Earthquake is a lot in the same, not seeing that much usage unless its against a grounded Electric-type. However, I have no complaints really, besides Terrakion inadvertently making my team much more weak to many common priority moves.​

    [​IMG]
    Xatu @ Rocky Helmet
    Magic Bounce
    252 HP / 144 Def / 112 SpD
    Calm Nature
    - Roost
    - Toxic
    - U-turn
    - Heat Wave


    Let's face it. If Deoxys-D wasn't so goddamn common, I'd be using something over this. The fact that I have to use it to prevent hazards instead of a spinner, cause I'd rather kill momentum with a switch than by using a move, pisses me off. I really fucking hate this thing. But it does its job very well, and helps kill stall teams, so who am I to judge? The residual damage from Rocky Helmet is neat, making it a good switch-in for weak attackers.

    If I'm not hitting Roost or Toxic, healing Xatu's pathetic HP or dishing out some residual damage making Breloom and Garchomp's lives easier respectively, then odds are, Xatu isn't doing anything. Sometimes I use U-Turn to scout some things or gain a momentum-grabbing switch off of cockblocking someone's hazards. Heat Wave has been a rather decent move, and having used Lavos Sun for a couple weeks, it definitely has its implications, doing wonderful damage to many of the Steel-type Pokemon Xatu finds itself switching-in on. Overall, a shitty Pokemon, but it does what it needs to be doing well.​

    Changes, Threatlist, and Extras:

    Conclusion:

    Well, thanks for the read! Hopefully, with the potential changes and threatlist in mind, you the rater will be able to point me and the team, Dust Bowl Dancing, in the proper direction, and maybe even break the 1700-point plateau that continuously slips from my grip. Keep in mind that the goal is 1900 however. Once again, thanks for the read and rate!​

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
  2. PDC

    PDC soon as your start sleeping catching you offguard
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    Solid team you got here! But there are a few changes you could make.

    I would suggest switching Garchomp's set up to a regular Swords Dance set instead of your current Substitutue variant, which lost it's true niche after Sand Veil was banned. Instead a simple change if Substitute > Fire Fang gives the set the needed change. Without the hax factor, that set lost it's true effectiveness in earning misses from the sand. I also suggest trying Earthquake and a Sassy Nature over Earth Power to allow you to hit Calm Mind Jirachi for consistent damage, along with stuff like Terrakion who can take a weaker Earth Power thanks to a specially defensive boost in the sand.

    Now as it stands, you are cery weak to opposing sun teams and stuff like Scarfed Salamence and other physically based dragons. Sun teams are not easy to handle especially, and are a very dangerous threat that needs to be adressed. Breloom can't revenge Venusaur or Volcarona very confidently. While Gastrodon can sloghtly handle some bulky Volcarona, it overall can't do it's job too well. To help fix these problems, or at least the problem with Volcarona and the limiting Dugtrio problem, I suggest trying out Specially Defensive Rotom-W over your current Gastrodon set, as you stated yourself the dislike for the Pokemon. It still combats rain teams well, giving you a sturdy check to Tornadus - T, and even the dangerous Rock Polish Landorus which can do a lot to your team.

    sets (open)

    Rotom-W @ Leftovers | Levitate
    248 HP / 252 SDef / 8 Spe
    Calm Nature
    - Thunder Wave
    - Volt Switch
    - Hydro Pump
    - Pain Split
  3. dragonuser

    dragonuser Today, tomorrow, and always with a frozen heart
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    Hey there Mazz,

    This is a pretty cool sand team. While looking at your threatlist, I noticed that a lot of your threats can be beaten by simple moveset adjustments. Ok so you mentioned how Sun teams are a huge threat, and I would agree. To fix this I would run Shed Shell on Tyranitar. The loss of leftovers wont be too crucial, while the benefits of Shed Shell is enormous. You can now setup rocks with no fears against most Sun teams, and it also helps a decent bit vs those Dugtrio + Rain teams. Also changing the moveset on your Xatu would help with your weakness to Skarmory. I would suggest running Heat Wave on Xatu. This gives Xatu a stronger hit on most Skarmory's, as well as doing much more to common hazard layers like Ferrothorn or Forretress.

    Beyond the threat that physical dragons pose to your team, Choice Band Genesect U-Turn spam also looks incredibly dangerous. For this, I would recommend replacing Gastrodon with a Scarf Terrakion. Terrakion helps immensely with Genesect (be wary of Iron Head), as well as checking Pokemon like DD Dragonite and Choice Scarf Salamence. Now this change makes you much more susceptable to Rain Teams, so if you decide to make this change I would also change Breloom's set to a Specially Defensive Leech Seed set. In conjunction with Jirachi, this set does a very good job at taking most rain teams. This set also helps with Conkeldurr a little bit, as it can Spore it before it does too much damage. As a secondary check to Conkeldurr you can also run Trick > Ice Punch on Jirachi. This can stop a Conkeldurr sweep midway or neuter a stray wall that decides to switch in (read: Gliscor/Skarmory).

    You also mentioned how you don't like Yache Berry on Garchomp. An interesting alternative could be running either a Salac Berry or Leftovers. Salac Berry can help Garchomp late game and prevents things like Scarf Genesect from ruining its sweep. Leftovers has the utility of producing more Substitutes/increased longevity. Anyways cool team man and hope I helped!

    sets (open)

    [​IMG]
    Terrakion @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Justified
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spd
    Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
    - Close Combat
    - Rock Slide
    - X-Scissor
    - Earthquake

    [​IMG]
    Breloom (F) @ Toxic Orb
    Trait: Poison Heal
    EVs: 236 HP / 248 SDef / 24 Spd
    Careful Nature (+SDef, -SAtk)
    - Protect
    - Leech Seed
    - Drain Punch
    - Spore


    EDIT: If you decide to keep CB Breloom, I would definetly test Spore over Stone Edge.
  4. Mazz

    Mazz Retired
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    Alright, first off, I'll definitely be testing that Rotom-W over Gastrodon. I like the spread and use of Thunder Wave, so it might get a spot on the team. The Garchomp decision, I'll also have to consider, as more than once Ive wished I had Fire Fang on it, but DragonUser's suggestion of Salac Berry has me intrigued. Thanks for the rate man!

    Leech Seed Breloom. Never in a million years would that ever cross my mind. I'll test it, as hell, it seems like a really cool set, and its been used at WCoP from what you've told me. We also talked about using Spore > Stone Edge on CB Loom, which I'll also give a shot. I never find myself using Stone Edge anyways. I really like the Garchomp suggestion, and I might go with it. I'll test between Salac Berry and Fire Fang Garchomp, as suggested by PDC. I'll also test the Terrakion suggestion, as it tackles most of the threats on my list. Not big on Trick > Ice Punch, but with Terrakion potentially making the team, I don't see why not.

    Thanks for the rates you two!
  5. Red3mpti0n

    Red3mpti0n

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    I know why you're doing it, but lowering Def IVs on Garchomp takes away from its natural bulk, which is well above average and one of the main reasons to use him. If you're really that concerned about giving Genesect a SpA boost, just invest in SpD a bit. It makes more sense to improve a good thing than hinder another good thing when they both accomplish the same goal. The attack drop is hardly noticeable with SD.

    Keldeo tears through the team too. Rotom can sponge Hydro Pumps but it can't take many Secret Swords. I suggest Jellicent > Gastrodon. It still helps with rain and sun teams, can Scald/WoW all the physical attackers on your threat list and laughs at Keldeo (HP Ghost lolol).

    I despise Xatu just as much as you do. That's why I use Espeon. Food for thought
  6. Mazz

    Mazz Retired
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    Jeliicent is another Pokemon I'll be sure to consider as well, although Im pretty sure most Keldeo run HP Ghost or HP Dark for Jellicent. Probably not going to invest any more in SpD on Garchomp, since it will take away from the attack power, as its like an 80 point investment? Substitute can help against priority, which is the only thing that really scares Garchomp.

    Thanks for the rate!
  7. Mizuhime

    Mizuhime We're just two lost souls swimming in a fish bowl
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    Hi, At first look it looks like a Mamoswine can hurt your team in many many ways, doing some serious damage to 5 members well being able to outspeed all of them. I like the idea of changing your ttar to a Hippodown, I find in the current OU meta, hippo has an easier time staying alive. and Conkeldurr > breloom will also help. Conkeldurr will also be able to take on mamoswine a lot easier then any member of your current team will be able to. just some food for though hope this helps yeah
  8. Mazz

    Mazz Retired
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    Mainly the reasons I had for considering those switches. I'll be testing Hippowdon and Conkeldurr, although, if I go with Terrakion, I'm pretty sure Breloom is safe to stay. Some of these testing combinations look fun. Thanks for the rate!
  9. King of Blades

    King of Blades

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    Hi there.

    As I see it, you have a weakness to other garchomp, especially haban berry and choice scarf variants. Your poor garchomp will get 1hkoed by most any dragon attack thrown at him from opposing garchomps.

    The most obvious thing to do to help prevent this is to change garchomp's item from yache berry to haban berry. You said you were having problems keeping the substitute up over ice attacks anyway. Therefore, if you use substitute a lot, yache is nearly worthless. The haban berry would be better suited for chomp, as he can keep the substitute up under very weak dragon attacks and not die horribly to any scarfed dragon that decides to revenge kill, especially scarfchomp.

    Also, changing tyranitar to physically defensive hippowdon would help stuff. It has recovery in slack off, the ability to phase with whirlwind, and it can set up entry hazards just like tyranitar.

    Set!
    Show Hide
    [​IMG]
    Hippowdon
    EVs: 252 HP, 252 Def, 4 Atk | Impish | Leftovers | Sand Stream
    ~Earthquake
    ~Slack Off
    ~Stealth Rock
    ~Whirlwind

    This is designed to tank as many physical hits as possible while phasing, setting up hazards, and/or chipping away with earthquake. Slack Off provides recovery, ensuring that hippowdon just doesn't continue to get health chipped off until he dies. Stealth Rock..... we know what stealth rock does. Whirlwind phases away dangerous set up sweepers such as sub/swords dance garchomp.

    Here are some calcs to show how hippowdon handles chomp.

    Jolly Life Orb 252 Atk chomp outrage vs above hippowdon: 39.3% - 46.4%. Guaranteed 3hko. Gives enough time to switch in, heal and phase, or just phase.

    same chomp at +2 vs above hippowdon: 77.9% - 91.7%. This could be bad, but you can survive one in order to phase him out and hopefully win the match with your chomp, if the other has no boosts.

    Adamant life orb 252 Atk chomp outrage vs above hippowdon: 85.2% - 100.7%.
    If the other guy is using adamant, he's probably stupid. If he gets a high roll and it deals 92% or more, the jig is up, you know he is adamant, and now you know you can outspeed him with your own chomp.


    It's not a full counter, but it's something to make sure he doesn't own you.

    Hope this helps!
  10. Mazz

    Mazz Retired
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    I wish I had posted the results of my testing sooner, but the changes I've made somewhat mitigate this problem. I can tell you up front I will nto be using Haban Berry Garchomp or Physically Defensive Hippowdon, as the former of the two doesn't seem appealing to me, since there are no "Weak Dragon-type Attacks" that it can take advantage of and that Tyranitar has too much value going for it to take it off the team, as discovered during my testing. Thank you for the rate though. If the team improves to a point where Gliscor and Skarmory become non-existent threats, I'll probably go back and take you up on the Hippowdon suggestion. Thanks for the rate!

    I've decided to mainly go with DragonUser's changes while opting for the Fire Fang Garchomp proposed by PDC. This sees the team drop Gastrodon for Choice Scarf Terrakion, while making the subtle move and item changes. I found that Salac Berry Garchomp was too prone to revenge killing and that I wasn't always able to eliminate all Steel-types by the late-game. Hippowdon, and I used the exact same set you posted, I found wasn't pulling its weight at all, only providing me with security against BP teams. Tyranitar's ability to lure out Skarmory, Gliscor, and Landorus and delivering a hefty blow was too much of a price to pay. Also, without Tyranitar, I found that the team had more troubles with Latias and Latios. Another pro to keeping Tyranitar was how much easier Tyranitar can switch-in on bulky Politoed, and take minimal damage from Scald. Conkeldurr, in the 8 battles I used it in, was rather effective, but once I began running Spore on Breloom, I found that Spore itself had much more value to the team, giving Garchomp time to set up, so opted against Conkeldurr.

    However, I liked the Jellicent and Rotom-W suggestions, both being exceptionally useful. Rotom-W provided excellent support for the team and provided it with a lot of momentum, while Jellicent nearly cured the issue I was having with most physical attackers. I am curious as to how I could see one of these two, preferably Rotom-W, put onto my team, as it did its job very well, almost giving me the opportunity to "hybrid" both the Salac and Fire Fang Garchomp sets (Garchomp involuntarily becomes faster than opposing team, still has 3-move coverage).

    With these changes implemented, I'll be updating the threatlist, as I've found a new pain in the ass.
  11. Mazz

    Mazz Retired
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    Bumping, as I've finally got the changes edited in.
  12. Red3mpti0n

    Red3mpti0n

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    It looks like Jirachi occupies the teamslot that Jellicent is needed in. Of all the threats you mentioned in Jirachi's description, the only ones that your new Terrakion cant cover as well are Scizor - which Jellicent covers anyway - and Scarf Genesect. Surprisingly, SpD Jellicent can actually stand up to Genesect as long as it gets an Attack boost:

    252 SpAtk Genesect Thunderbolt vs 248 HP/224 SpDef Jellicent (+SpDef): 34.74% - 41.19%
    3-4 hits to KO (with Leftovers)

    Pretty damn impressive, not to mention that's not max SpD and many Scarf Genesect aren't using max SpA, in favor of boosting the power of U-turn. You can also you use the physically defensive one to better cover Conkeldurr and SD Scizor, but both have great defensive synergy with Tyranitar. Losing Trick and Serene Grace can be a bummer, but WoW can cripple almost everything you mentioned just as much.

    Jellicent still struggles with the Grass-types that plague sun teams, but it makes a pretty good dent in your threatlist. I think the change would be for the better.

    On an unrelated note, watch out for Status Orb variants of Conkeldurr. Breloom will have a hard time putting them to sleep.

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