Effective Offensive Combinations

Here's something idiotproof:

Shaymin-S @ Choice Specs
Timid
252 Sp. Atk 252 Spd 4 HP
- Air Slash
- Seed Flare
- Earth Power
- Hidden Power [Fire]/[Ice]

Heatran @ Choice Scarf
Modest/Timid
252 Sp. Atk 252 Spd 4 HP
- Fire Blast
- Earth Power
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Explosion

Oh come on, don't tell me no one's ever thought of this. It's viable on Ubers, and maybe if SkyMin passes Suspect Test Round 2. SkyMin's the main mon here: SkyMin thwacks things with Seed Flare or does some flinchhax with Air Slash and nails stuff with Earth Power and its Hidden Power, and Heatran soaks Fire attacks and rips massive holes with Fire Blast and other moves. When all's said and done, Heatran can blow up and let SkyMin finish up. SpecsMin dishes out some incredible damage, especially with that 80% chance Sp. Def drop that Seed Flare provides.
 

Legacy Raider

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covering every weakness is pointless when the opponent has the 2 moves youre weak to on one pokemon.

"salamence and magnezone cover each other well"

okay, let's let mamoswine take 11 attacks to self-ko itself with life orb. have fun with that.

why do we even have this thread. you use a team of 6 pokemon to win anyways, not 2.
You have missed the point of this thread completely. We don't care if Magnezone and Salamence cover each other's weaknesses. It's been repeatedly said - the point of this topic is to find combinations that will cause the opponent trouble, not combinations that can stop the opponent's sweepers. Magnezone and Salamence is often cited as a defensive combination. It is NOT. The whole point of it is that Magnezone kills the steels that stop a Salamence sweep, i.e. it is an offensive combination. Sure, if it comes down to it, the fact that they cover each others weaknesses well means that you can sometimes switch between the two, but it is by no means meant to be a SkarmBliss or CeleTran (for lack of better examples). Your comment about Mamoswine running through Salamence / Magnezone is a moot point, as we are looking for how Salamence and Magnezone damage to opposing team.

that is untrue. dp has some many threats and options that you really can put together 6 pokemon and actually win. seeing as how no team can cover every single threat, any given team could beat any other given team. there is no way for anything to go as to plan every single time, such as how no one is undefeated. battling has a lot of factors in it, while team is important, the usage and execution of a 'lesser' team could win out. hell we can maximize luck to the fullest. no team can have a guaranteed chance to win a team of 6 random pokes all with thunder wave and swagger etc etc etc.
Yes, I think we all know that your team is just one small factor in winning a battle. The fact that it is still a factor is reason enough for it to be addressed. Just because 'there is no way for anything to go as to plan every single time' doesn't mean we should just throw strategy out the window and just 'put together 6 pokemon'. So what if your strategy doesn't work every time? If it's a well developed strategy it will still work most of the time. The way you're speaking you're making it sound like strategy and planning is useless in a team, and that we should all just start throwing random pokes together. If we all followed this philosophy then there would be no rain teams, trick room teams, hail teams, paralysis teams, sandstorm teams, stall teams... as they all revolve around a central, unifying strategy!

I've never said that a team can have a 'guaranteed chance to win'. I'm just trying to get people to brainstorm some good combinations that, when used as the offensive core of a team, gives the team a good chance to win.

okay and if 2 pokemon can't counter something, we add in a third. oh look, that opens up another weakness. then we go to patch that up. oh gee, we just basically made up a complete team. it seems as if people are in team building-block and want some inspiration, which is the only explanation a topic such as this would even arise. just look in the rmt forum if you want to see what a team can do =/
Like I've said in the OP and another subsequent post, I am not trying to get people to post their entire teams. We're suggesting combinations of sweepers around which we can build a team. Using my Scizor/Lucario suggestion as an example, it is obvious that when using this combination the rest of the team would have to be built to take on stray Ground, Fire and Fighting attacks, simple because of the typing. However, in my post I'm not specifying how to do this, but rather just pointing out that it is something to take into consideration. The person using the Lucario/Scizor combination can use anything else on their team... Gyarados, Dragonite, Salamence, even things like Moltres to support the offensive core. That is up to the person using the combo and is totally specific to them.

And I am not simply in a 'team building-block' and trying to get some inspiration through this topic. As of now, I have contributed the most combos to the thread, and so am not simply trying to get people to post their ideas to copy them, as you so strongly imply. I'm sure someone of your standing would have a lot of great combos that you could contribute, so instead of this pointless arguing maybe you could make a contribution?

Anyway, I said I was going to post another combo, and here it is.

..............................

+
+


Latias @ Leftovers
Timid - Levitate
148 HP, 108 SpA, 252 Spe

- Calm Mind
- Dragon Pulse
- Recover
- Refresh

+

Magnezone @ Choice Scarf
Naive - Magnet Pull
4 Atk, 252 SpA, 252 Spe

- Thunderbolt
- HP Fire
- Flash Cannon
- Explosion

+

Machamp @ Leftovers
Adamant - No Guard
252 HP, 252 Atk, 4 Spe

- Dynamicpunch
- Stone Edge
- Payback
- Bulk Up

Something I've been using on the suspect ladder with great success. The three pokemon together deal with each others counters very well, meaning that one of them will sweep in the end.

What stops a CM Latias sweep? Steel types such as Scizor, Bronzong, Metagross, Jirachi; special walls such as Blissey and Snorlax; and dark types such as Weavile and Tyranitar. Magnezone takes out all the aforementioned steels, and Machamp takes out the special walls and Dark types.

Blissey, Snorlax, Swampert and Gliscor hinder Magnezone. Machamp removes the first 3, while Latias sets up on Gliscor.

Skarmory, Celebi, Gliscor, Slowbro, Weezing are some of Machamp's counters. Magnezone removes Skarmory and does massive damage to Slowbro and Weezing, while Latias can set up on Celebi, Gliscor or Weezing with ease.

And, as a footnote, the typing synergy is excellent, with not a single shared weakness between the three pokemon. For the more pedantic out there (and for those who are looking for a more defensive set), Hariyama can take Machamp's place, as in addition to resisting Latias' Dark weak, with Thick Fat it resists Latias' Ice weak and Magnezone's Fire weak. But remember, this is simply a minor point, and the offensive combination doesn't need the resistances to work effectively.
..............................

LR.
 
I think I've seen Suicune+Lucario,

Suicune @ Life Orb
Ability: Pressure
Nature: Timid
EVs: 252 SpAtk/252 Spd/4 Def
Moves:
- Calm Mind
- Surf
- Ice Beam
- HP Electric

+

Lucario @ Life Orb
Ability: Steadfast
Nature: Adamant
EVs: 252 Atk/252 Spd/4 Def
Moves:
- Swords Dance
- Extremespeed
- Close Combat
- Crunch/Ice Punch/Stone Edge

The idea is that Offensive Suicune lures Lucario counters in like Celebi, Zapdos, even Rotom-Appliance, since all forms of Rotom will lose to Suicune after it gets one calm mind, and beat them, then Lucario is free to sweep. I think, or did i get it wrong. nevermind, I have a few to share so i cant waste time.

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theres also Raikoulover's Yanmega + Baitran + Jirachi

Yanmega @ Focus Sash
Ability: Speed Boost
Nature: Modest
EVs: 104 Def/252 SpAtk/152 Spd
Moves:
- Bug Buzz
- Air Slash
- HP Ground
- Protect

+

Heatran @ Life Orb
Ability: Flash Fire
Nature: Hasty
EVs: 56 Atk/252 Spd/200 SpAtk
Moves:
- Stealth Rock
- Flamethrower
- Earth Power
- Explosion

+

Jirachi @ Leftovers
Ability: Serene Grace
Nature: Timid
EVs: 252 HP/80 SpAtk/176 Spd
Moves:
- Calm Mind
- Psychic
- Thunderbolt
- Substitute

I think the idea was presented in his old team retirement thread. If i had interpreted it correctly, this was the main offensive force of the team. Yanmega serves to dismantle fast offensive teams, putting dents in rain teams, etc, and Jirachi can set up and beat slower stall teams. Heatran can bait Blissey in, possibly switch out to give the idea that it's scarfed, then explode the next time it comes back. Getting rid of Blissey can possibly mean a free sweep for either Yanmega or Jirachi. Maybe RL can post here and elaborate.

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My Format2 kill team is Dragonite/Empoleon/Electivire, regardless of set; I like mixing these guys up a lot. I've run specsNite backed up by standard Vire/Empoleon, but more commonly Empoleon is swords dancing, Nite is sub punching, and Electivire runs a special set. It's a really versatile trio that covers each other quite well - the common ground weakness between Electivire and Empoleon is covered well by Dragonite. An Ice/Ground offensive combo can hurt this trio, but that can be said about almost anything. Ice/Ground just hurts.
 
RhyTar = Rhyperior + Tyranitar (Ground/Rock + Dark/Rock), (Solid Rock + Sandstream), (Godly SpD + Godly Def)

Start out with your DDTar, dragon dance up a few times as they send in their counters... Counter for the kill! Then sweep a bit.

Bring in Subperior next, Sub + SD. Bring a world of hurt.
 
+


This is a very destructive combo indeed. It destroys Stall teams in a matter of seconds. It is DugZone. This combo is deadly due to the fact that it takes out two of the most common stallers...Blissey and Skarmory. This also opens the door for a MixMence sweep since your oponent can play around the Mence with prediction.
 

Super

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that is untrue. dp has some many threats and options that you really can put together 6 pokemon and actually win. seeing as how no team can cover every single threat, any given team could beat any other given team. there is no way for anything to go as to plan every single time, such as how no one is undefeated. battling has a lot of factors in it, while team is important, the usage and execution of a 'lesser' team could win out. hell we can maximize luck to the fullest. no team can have a guaranteed chance to win a team of 6 random pokes all with thunder wave and swagger etc etc etc.
Yet, the fact that most of my teams suck, but sometimes I manage to put together an actually good team makes me not believe you, but mine is a poor argument at best.

Even still, like I say, I see Pokemon more as a leaderboard game than a tournament game. Upsets happen a lot in Pokemon, which is why no one is undefeatable. It's very different from [good] fighters, where the better player will almost always win. Pokemon, I see, only has meaning in the long run.

Legacy > me in this argument.

I'd contribute, but I'm bad with these stuff, and my current team is more of a roles team with a paraflinch strat. Jirachi and Togekiss are the flinchers, Snorlax, Zapdos, and Machamp help clear threats and set up paralysis, and Latias gives Reflect support.
 
+


This is a very destructive combo indeed. It destroys Stall teams in a matter of seconds. It is DugZone. This combo is deadly due to the fact that it takes out two of the most common stallers...Blissey and Skarmory. This also opens the door for a MixMence sweep since your oponent can play around the Mence with prediction.
The problem here is that a CB Adamant earthquake from Duggy to Blissey is...a 2hko against max def/no hp bliss. So you had better hope a. it isn't packing ice beam or b. it already has half of its hp gone.

But otherwise this is a pretty deadly duo since trapping and killing is so easy.
 
Scizor + Scarf Dugtrio + Tyranitar is a pretty good combo. Specifically, Swords Dance Scizor with U-turn. Tyranitar wrecks counters like Zapdos and Rotom-h with Pursuit, while Dugtrio traps Heatran and Magnezone (Magnezone is a good replacement to Dugtrio because Tyranitar sort of handles Heatran already).
 
RhyTar = Rhyperior + Tyranitar (Ground/Rock + Dark/Rock), (Solid Rock + Sandstream), (Godly SpD + Godly Def)

Start out with your DDTar, dragon dance up a few times as they send in their counters... Counter for the kill! Then sweep a bit.

Bring in Subperior next, Sub + SD. Bring a world of hurt.
.. and get shafted by anything fast with Grass Knot. I'm sure a much better combo is Endeavor Rampardos / Dragon Dance Tyranitar. Endeavor Hippowdon / Swampert / Hariyama and let Rampardos die and proceed to rape with Tyranitar.
 

Chou Toshio

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+


-Flygon is one of the greatest partners gyara, especially lead gyara could ask for. Seeing how much Gyara attracts thunderbolts/thunderwave/trick/stone edge, and flygon can take it all (while also only taking around 30-35 from Celebi's grass knot).
-Once it is in, Starmie/Celebi are not going to like Scarf U-Turn.
-Resistance to Edge-Quake is important when dealing with Aerodactyle
-U-turn's scouting power is also important in the early game
-Flygon WALLS some zapdos sets (lol thunderbolt/hp grass/heat wave)

Admittedly, Gyara does not do much in reciprocation, but we all know how bad ass it is and death-fodder that carries intimidate is always nice.

+


Not quite as obvious, but Garchomp-Mence was effective back in the day, and Garchomp-Flygon works well too.

-While a bit risker seeing as they share an ice beam weak, Salamence is a huge target for thunderwave. Resisting Rock is again, very useful.
-Flygon, while valuable defensively, has only average defenses, and Salamence can be useful for dealing with a number of nuetral hits that Flygon wouldn't want to take.
-Again, death fodder with intimidate is nice.
-With powerful EQ/Fire Blast/Brick Break at its disposal, Salamence can be pretty damn effective at taking down "the enemy steel type" stopping the outrage sweep. An early game Mix-mence is good at drawing out "the dragon counter" and killing it, or at least severely wounding it-- opening up, the flygon sweep. It's a "lure" strategy in other words.
-Mix-Mence + Scarfgon also have good synergy in terms of timing. One is a powerful early-game wall breaker, the other is a speedy late game sweeper. Mix-mence packs the punch, flygon the speed. Mix-mence focusing on Draco-Meteor's power instead of all-out physical helps balance the offensive as well.

+


-Flygon absorbs thunderwaves (again, lol), lols and EQ and can deal with TTar
-Heatran absorbs dragon/ice attacks and can take down enemy steels

Throw in a Celebi/Zapdos to deal with bulky waters, and you're good to go. :P

Incidentally, Celebi/Zapdos do good with Flygon around too, as they both hate ttar.

/
/
+


lol dragon + steel

Undoubtedly drawing in outrages for steel types to set up is still a decent strategy.


Flygon just has good synergy with so may other offensive pokemon . . .
 
Empoleon @ Petaya Berry
Ability: Torrent
Nature: Modest
EVs: 44 HP / 216 Spe / 248 SpA
-Surf
-Ice Beam
-Substitute
-Agility

This can't touch Bulky Waters, besides Swampert, and Blissey beats it as well. So a lure is necessary in taking out these bastards.

Heatran
@ Expert Belt
Ability: Flash Fire
Nature: Hasty
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 Spe / 252 SpA
*Fire Blast
*Earth Power
*Hidden Power [Grass]
*Explosion

Now Heatran is a great lure of bulky water pokemon, and this set allows it to beat all of them, as well as Blissey so Empoleon can be free to sweep.
 
The problem here is that a CB Adamant earthquake from Duggy to Blissey is...a 2hko against max def/no hp bliss. So you had better hope a. it isn't packing ice beam or b. it already has half of its hp gone.

But otherwise this is a pretty deadly duo since trapping and killing is so easy.
Blissey's Ice Beam doesn't OHKO duggy. Unless Blissey Ice Beams on the switch. Otherwise Blissey loses.
 
Wish Bliss with Toxic beats Dugtrio depending on the spread, and most will 2hko but after Protecting the Lefties gain enables it to take another EQ, Wish and stall poison at will. But any Dugtrio user should know that the Bliss needs to be weakened before Dug can come in imo
 
Imo the greatest "4-team" to eliminate specific pokemon are Pokemon Trappers.

Vaporeon + Dugtrio + Magnezone + Weavile

These 4 work well effectively when you predict right
 
If Zone switches in he can outspeed and rip Ton apart, you are forgetting about Magnet Pull
1) 'Zone won't be switching in; 'Ton will be trapping something. It's a revenge kill at best.

2) I'm not forgetting anything. Magnet pull is the entire concept fo Magnezone/ton to begin with, how can I simply forget that? -_-

3) The exact same can be said about Dugtrio. If it comes in for the revenge, you're screwed and you can't do a damn thing about it. Same thing happens to Magnezone.

I don't quite understand what you're getting at.



I'm trying to develope a triple dragon strategy but it's not going too well. The biggest problem is selecting the other 3 pokemon and how to use them effectively to help out the triple dragon. I'll get it up whenever I figure it out.
 
Here's something idiotproof:

Shaymin-S @ Choice Specs
Timid
252 Sp. Atk 252 Spd 4 HP
- Air Slash
- Seed Flare
- Earth Power
- Hidden Power [Fire]/[Ice]

Heatran @ Choice Scarf
Modest/Timid
252 Sp. Atk 252 Spd 4 HP
- Fire Blast
- Earth Power
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Explosion

Oh come on, don't tell me no one's ever thought of this. It's viable on Ubers, and maybe if SkyMin passes Suspect Test Round 2. SkyMin's the main mon here: SkyMin thwacks things with Seed Flare or does some flinchhax with Air Slash and nails stuff with Earth Power and its Hidden Power, and Heatran soaks Fire attacks and rips massive holes with Fire Blast and other moves. When all's said and done, Heatran can blow up and let SkyMin finish up. SpecsMin dishes out some incredible damage, especially with that 80% chance Sp. Def drop that Seed Flare provides.
This would be good but..... Shaymin is banned atm
 
This would be good but..... Shaymin is banned atm
Perhaps you should read his analysis of the duo before jumping to conclusions one word into the post. He said it's "viable on Ubers" (although he's probably using a good deal of theorymon with that statement).
 

Legacy Raider

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I really like that Heatran and Skymin combo - I think it actually has lots of potential. Definitely something I plan on looking into during the second stage of Skymin testing. The great thing is that both are special attackers yet both can take out Blissey in their own way - Heatran can explode to take out Blissey whereas Skymin can beat Blissey with 2 Seed Flares. The only thing I would change about it is make Skymin Modest, and you can read my argument for that here.

I also really like IceTime's Suicune/Lucario combination. I remember seeing it in an RMT a while back but didn't really pick up on the subtleties of it until here. Gliscor, Celebi, Gyarados, Salamence, Rotom, etc are all taken out by Suicune's CMed attacks, which really does open the door for Lucario to sweep through a team. It's not the most obvious of combos either, and I think it is one of the best in this thread.

LR.
 
Perhaps you should read his analysis of the duo before jumping to conclusions one word into the post. He said it's "viable on Ubers" (although he's probably using a good deal of theorymon with that statement).
Didnt see that, first uber combo anybody posted in the topic, so it was kind of easy to make a mistake on that, only thing I notice with that is blissey can keep it on lock, as alot of blissey's in ubers pack max HP/ max sp. def
 

M Dragon

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World Defender
Kingdra @ Leftovers
Ability: Sniper
EVs: 252 HP/98 Atk/160 Spd
Adamant nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Substitute
- Dragon Dance
- Waterfall
- Outrage


Scizor @ Leftovers / Life Orb
Ability: Technician
EVs: 252 HP/76 Atk/4 Spd/176 SDef
Adamant nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Bullet Punch
- Brick Break/Superpower
- Swords Dance
- Roost


I have used Kingdra + Scizor with great success in my DracoOffense, and they work very well in an offensive minded team. Kingdra can take any fire attack like nothing, while Scizor takes Outrages.
They have great synergy, and both can easily sweep an unprepared team
 
You have missed the point of this thread completely. We don't care if Magnezone and Salamence cover each other's weaknesses. It's been repeatedly said - the point of this topic is to find combinations that will cause the opponent trouble, not combinations that can stop the opponent's sweepers. Magnezone and Salamence is often cited as a defensive combination. It is NOT. The whole point of it is that Magnezone kills the steels that stop a Salamence sweep, i.e. it is an offensive combination. Sure, if it comes down to it, the fact that they cover each others weaknesses well means that you can sometimes switch between the two, but it is by no means meant to be a SkarmBliss or CeleTran (for lack of better examples). Your comment about Mamoswine running through Salamence / Magnezone is a moot point, as we are looking for how Salamence and Magnezone damage to opposing team.



Yes, I think we all know that your team is just one small factor in winning a battle. The fact that it is still a factor is reason enough for it to be addressed. Just because 'there is no way for anything to go as to plan every single time' doesn't mean we should just throw strategy out the window and just 'put together 6 pokemon'. So what if your strategy doesn't work every time? If it's a well developed strategy it will still work most of the time. The way you're speaking you're making it sound like strategy and planning is useless in a team, and that we should all just start throwing random pokes together. If we all followed this philosophy then there would be no rain teams, trick room teams, hail teams, paralysis teams, sandstorm teams, stall teams... as they all revolve around a central, unifying strategy!

I've never said that a team can have a 'guaranteed chance to win'. I'm just trying to get people to brainstorm some good combinations that, when used as the offensive core of a team, gives the team a good chance to win.



Like I've said in the OP and another subsequent post, I am not trying to get people to post their entire teams. We're suggesting combinations of sweepers around which we can build a team. Using my Scizor/Lucario suggestion as an example, it is obvious that when using this combination the rest of the team would have to be built to take on stray Ground, Fire and Fighting attacks, simple because of the typing. However, in my post I'm not specifying how to do this, but rather just pointing out that it is something to take into consideration. The person using the Lucario/Scizor combination can use anything else on their team... Gyarados, Dragonite, Salamence, even things like Moltres to support the offensive core. That is up to the person using the combo and is totally specific to them.

And I am not simply in a 'team building-block' and trying to get some inspiration through this topic. As of now, I have contributed the most combos to the thread, and so am not simply trying to get people to post their ideas to copy them, as you so strongly imply. I'm sure someone of your standing would have a lot of great combos that you could contribute, so instead of this pointless arguing maybe you could make a contribution?

Anyway, I said I was going to post another combo, and here it is.

..............................

+
+


Latias @ Leftovers
Timid - Levitate
148 HP, 108 SpA, 252 Spe

- Calm Mind
- Dragon Pulse
- Recover
- Refresh

+

Magnezone @ Choice Scarf
Naive - Magnet Pull
4 Atk, 252 SpA, 252 Spe

- Thunderbolt
- HP Fire
- Flash Cannon
- Explosion

+

Machamp @ Leftovers
Adamant - No Guard
252 HP, 252 Atk, 4 Spe

- Dynamicpunch
- Stone Edge
- Payback
- Bulk Up

Something I've been using on the suspect ladder with great success. The three pokemon together deal with each others counters very well, meaning that one of them will sweep in the end.

What stops a CM Latias sweep? Steel types such as Scizor, Bronzong, Metagross, Jirachi; special walls such as Blissey and Snorlax; and dark types such as Weavile and Tyranitar. Magnezone takes out all the aforementioned steels, and Machamp takes out the special walls and Dark types.

Blissey, Snorlax, Swampert and Gliscor hinder Magnezone. Machamp removes the first 3, while Latias sets up on Gliscor.

Skarmory, Celebi, Gliscor, Slowbro, Weezing are some of Machamp's counters. Magnezone removes Skarmory and does massive damage to Slowbro and Weezing, while Latias can set up on Celebi, Gliscor or Weezing with ease.

And, as a footnote, the typing synergy is excellent, with not a single shared weakness between the three pokemon. For the more pedantic out there (and for those who are looking for a more defensive set), Hariyama can take Machamp's place, as in addition to resisting Latias' Dark weak, with Thick Fat it resists Latias' Ice weak and Magnezone's Fire weak. But remember, this is simply a minor point, and the offensive combination doesn't need the resistances to work effectively.
..............................

LR.
I had that exact combination in mind lol. Except I was thinking Poliwrath>Machamp since Poliwrath can lure in Celebi for Latias and attracts Electric attacks for Latias and Magnezone.
 

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