1. New to the forums? Check out our Mentorship Program!
    Our mentors will answer your questions and help you become a part of the community!
  2. Welcome to Smogon Forums! Please take a minute to read the rules.

Electivire (Analysis)

Discussion in 'Locked / Outdated Analyses' started by Zystral, Aug 8, 2011.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Zystral

    Zystral めんどくさい、な~
    is a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2009
    Messages:
    1,610
    This hasn't been completed, and as a result I am entirely redoing it. Unlike Smeargle, everything here will be my own writing, so sadly the original user will not be accredited. It isn't ready for GP yet, but I'll duly inform the right people when it is.

    It's already passed QC, so I'm leaving the writing spaces blank for now.

    ---


    [Overview]
    <p>Incredible hype at the beginning of Diamond and Pearl, followed by gut-wrenching disappointment after a few moments of fame has lead to the common idea that Electivire is a failure of a Pokemon. While this mostly holds true in Black and White, Electivire is not a complete sack of terrible. Even though it is outsped and taken down by some immensely popular threats such as Dragon Dance Haxorus and Rock Polish Terrakion, Electivire still has some redeeming factors. The major draw it has over its main rival, Eelektross, is that it has much better Speed, access to Motor Drive, and an incredible movepool allowing it to take down many common walls such as Blissey and Ferrothorn.</p>

    <p>However, underwhelming stats, no new toys, and a reliance on Motor Drive really hammers the nails in Electivire's coffin. It will be difficult finding a slot for your team, and there is almost always a better option. His wide movepool and ability to run an effective mixed set just doesn't impress as much when compared to the sheer power of newer threats such as Scrafty or Conkeldurr.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Mixed Attacker
    move 1: Thunderbolt
    move 2: Cross Chop
    move 3: Hidden Power Ice
    move 4: Flamethrower
    item: Life Orb / Expert Belt
    nature: Mild
    ability: Motor Drive
    evs: 40 Atk / 252 SpA / 216 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]
    <p>Electivire works best on the premise that low power can be made up for with incredible coverage. This may be true to a point, but in reality, Electivire needs that Life Orb to really eke the most out of its movepool. There are no questions about it - this set either needs Agility or Rock Polish Baton Passed to it, or Electivire needs to be switched in on a Choice-locked Electric-type attack. Without that increase in Speed, Electivire will be taken out by a good chunk of the metagame before it even starts launching attacks.</p>

    <p>That isn't to say Electivire is useless - under the right conditions, it has the potential to wreak havoc. With incredible coverage, Expert Belt becomes a viable choice, not that Electivire enjoys the extra bulk. Even though its offensive stats may not be sky-high, they are still good enough to take down many common attackers in the metagame, such as Salamence and Gyarados. It's worth noting that more of the emphasis is on Special Attack, and that's mainly due to the fact that Intimidate, the prevalence of high Defense Pokemon such as Ferrothorn and Gliscor, and quite simply a coincidence in that most big threats of the metagame have a lower Special Defense. However, Cross Chop still has its uses here and there, but in most cases, Thunderbolt is a better option than Thunderpunch. A similar story is with Flamethrower, and Hidden Power Ice.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]
    <p>Electivire needs some serious team support - aside from the obvious problems with its Speed, it also has problems in regards to outright killing its targets. Entry hazards is almost a must, and measures must be taken to keep counters to Electivire's common switch-ins. Latias and Rotom-W in particular will give Electivire some real problems, being able to tank its hits and retaliate with either Dragon Pulse or Will-o-Wisp, respectively. If Electivire is without a Speed boost, then suddenly it becomes a sitting duck for so many sweepers such as Landorus and Salamence, threats it could previously KO with Hidden Power Ice. There are no other real options for moves, apart from Hidden Power Grass to hit Gastrodon and Swampert. Life Orb will give Electivire the power it needs to deal damage, but the difference between it and Expert Belt are negligible; Electivire losing 10% health a turn almost makes up for the fact that he's dealing more damage. The EVs and nature make the set as offensive as possible.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Physical Attacker
    move 1: Wild Bolt
    move 2: Ice Punch
    move 3: Fire Punch / Earthquake
    move 4: Cross Chop
    item: Life Orb / Expert Belt
    nature: Adamant
    ability: Motor Drive
    evs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]
    <p>Electivire may have more success with a mixed set, but its highest stat is Attack, and that's not to say it would be an effective physical attacker. In fact, by focusing all of its offensive prowess into a single stat, it can function more effectively in certain conditions. Of course, Electivire still retains the problem of Speed and sheer force, and in some cases this is emphasized in that a lot more of the tanks in OU are defensive. Whereas a mixed Electivire only has to deal with Blissey through Cross Chop, a purely physical Electivire may have enhanced difficulties breaking through Forretress or Scrafty. Despite this, it can still function with the right support, provided certain menacing threats are taken out, such as Landorus and Gliscor. Wild Charge takes place of Thunderbolt, Ice Punch comes in over Hidden Power, and Fire Punch replaces Flamethrower. Aside from the fact that your KO list has changed, this set plays similarly to the mixed attacker.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]
    <p>It's worth noting that having shifted to a different attacking stat, any problems with Electivire on your side of play remain the same - subpar Speed, predictability, and lack of power. What does change is the number and types of options your opponent now have. Blissey is no longer a safe switch, and Cloyster now has three moves to switch in on. Conkeldurr is now more questionable, but Metagross is still capable. Electivire simply requires smart play from the player in that you need to know what will give Electivire problems and eliminate those problems before Electivire cleans up. Earthquake becomes an option, as it is always a solid attack, but there isn't much change to be made. Aside from this, Electivire plays just like any other physical sweeper would - max Attack and Speed, power-boosting item, four attacks, and you're done.</p>

    [Other Options]
    <p>Rock Slide can be sneaked in over Ice Punch if used alongside Earthquake for coverage reasons, but the fall in damage against Salamence and Landorus is noticable. Thunder can be used instead of Thunderbolt on the mixed set if Electivire is serving in a Rain Dance team; the Water-typed teammates will also lure Electric-type moves for Electivire to grab his Motor Drive off. Choice Band and Choice Scarf can be effective, but when the main draw is incredible type-coverage, it isn't such a good idea.</p>

    <p>Electivire can really do well from a Baton Passed stat boosts, especially from Gorebyss, who can give it its much-needed offensive and Speed Boost with Shell Smash. On top of its, its Water-typing draws Thunder Wave and Thunderbolt from all around, setting Electivire at ridiculous speed levels. In terms of defensive support, anything that resists Earthquake and strong priority is considered a reasonable teammate. The need to eliminate pesky opponents such as Metagross and Salamence still lingers, but a bulky teammate should be able to wear them down so that Electivire can whack them on the switch next time. Apart from this, entry hazards are always useful.</p>

    [Counters and Checks]
    <p>Due to its insane coverage, Electivire has no real counters, as everything that switches in on it is more than likely suspect to a super effective hit. Toxicroak and Tyranitar can come in on anything that isn't Fire-type or STABed, respectively, and proceed to shred Electivire with their powerful STAB moves. Mienshao and Infernape also prove problems due to their high Speed and strong attacks. Without a Motor Drive boost, Electivire becomes a minor threat, as pretty much everything outspeeds it. If it does accelerate, however, then being able to survive two strikes becomes very important, as outspeeding Electivire without a Choice Scarf becomes near impossible. Latias is capable to holding her own, and most Choice Scarf attackers should be able to weaken Electivire if not outright KO it.</p>
  2. Twins

    Twins

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2010
    Messages:
    113
    Actually, no need for a mixed set this gen around. Electivire now gets Wild Charge, which is a 90 BP Physical Electric move. The 25% recoil might hurt a bit, but Wild Charge will always hit harder than Thunderbolt off of Electivire's higher attack stat.
  3. verbatim

    verbatim Red like Roses
    is a Battle Server Administratoris a Smogon IRC AOPis a Forum Moderator
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2011
    Messages:
    1,356
    To be fair, the recoil shouldn't be much of a problem, as Electivire cannot take a hit with his 75/67/85 defenses. The extra damage wild bolt gives should more than make up for the recoil damage it sends back.


    Also, you may want to link to a site with Electivire's stats and movepool.

    Also, I believe that although it is somewhat unnecessary, for the sake of completeness you should have a dream world section, even if only to say that he does not get anything.
  4. JimmyTheKid

    JimmyTheKid

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2011
    Messages:
    4
    Just my two cents:
    He has use on Rain teams due to all the Water-types drawing electric attacks (and with that comes the ability to abuse a 100% accurate Thunder to use on the mixed set). And, since he relies on a Motor Drive boost anyway, he can use Cell Battery on the physical set to also boost his Attack (correct me if this is wrong, but as far as I can remember Cell Battery still boosts if the poke holding it is immune to electric attacks)
  5. Omicron

    Omicron
    is a Site Staff Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2010
    Messages:
    3,042
    Make sure to emphasize that Electivire is a great Shell Smash reciever, cuz quite honestly, it sucks without any boosts.
  6. AccidentalGreed

    AccidentalGreed HOMERUN, CABRONES
    is a Forum Moderatoris a Contributor to Smogon
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2009
    Messages:
    2,623
    Maybe a sentence or two on Shell Smash would be great, since Gorebyss generally hates Electric-types, and Electivire's Thunder Wave/Thunderbolt immunity does quite nicely in this case (use Expert Belt, of course).
  7. merlinnerd922

    merlinnerd922

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2008
    Messages:
    42
    Maybe a slash for Vital Spirit, especially given sleep's new mechanics this gen?
  8. blarajan

    blarajan i was born under the same star as shakeitup
    is a member of the Site Staffis a Forum Moderatoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus
    Little Cup Leader

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2010
    Messages:
    3,650
    If you aren't using Motor Drive, then there's absolutely zero reason to ever use this walking truck of a Pokemon in OU.
  9. sirndpt

    sirndpt
    is an Artist Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2011
    Messages:
    1,124
    I know this isn't finalized yet, but I believe the EVs on the first set are in the wrong order:
  10. blarajan

    blarajan i was born under the same star as shakeitup
    is a member of the Site Staffis a Forum Moderatoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus
    Little Cup Leader

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2010
    Messages:
    3,650
    Yeah he's right. 40 Atk / 252 SpA / 216 Spe should be the correct spread.
  11. SJCrew

    SJCrew Believer, going on a journey...
    is a Tiering Contributoris a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2008
    Messages:
    2,927
    It's a really bleak gen for Electivire. Perhaps he was QC passed out of pity?

    Also:

    One of these should be rephrased.
  12. Jukain

    Jukain fuck redew
    is a Community Contributoris a Smogon Media Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
    Mentor

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2011
    Messages:
    3,787
    question: when are the writing spaces going to be done?
  13. dwarfstar

    dwarfstar
    is a Pre-Contributor

    Joined:
    Apr 7, 2011
    Messages:
    559
    Electivire could potentially work with a Baton Pass Ninjask. If memory serves, Smashpass is still illegal in UU. In OU... even if you're going physical, Thundurus is probably better. (Lower Attack, but can actually outrun things off the bat.) Sad, really, because an electric Yeti is automatically badass.
  14. SJCrew

    SJCrew Believer, going on a journey...
    is a Tiering Contributoris a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2008
    Messages:
    2,927
    SmashPass was never illegal. It made the voting ballot once, but stopped shy of a supermajority. Espeon was banned Round 2 instead.
  15. iDunno

    iDunno

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2009
    Messages:
    1,138
    Hi I did something like this:

    Grammar (open)




    Edit: I reread my corrections and was shocked at some of the suggestions I made lol. I revised my check to remove those said suggestions.
  16. bugmaniacbob

    bugmaniacbob Floats like a Butterfree, stings like a Metapod
    is a Smogon Media Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis an Artist Alumnusis a CAP Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2008
    Messages:
    2,286
    Getting back into it

    GP Check [1/2]

    REMOVE
    ADD
    COMMENT

    Electivire (Analysis) (open)


    [Overview]
    <p>Incredible hype at the beginning of Diamond and Pearl, followed by gut-wrenching disappointment after a few moments of fame has lead led to the common idea that Electivire is a failure of a Pokemon. While this mostly holds true in Black and White, Electivire is not a complete sack of terrible waste of time. Even though it is outsped and taken down by some immensely popular threats such as Dragon Dance Haxorus and Rock Polish Terrakion, Electivire still has some redeeming factors. The major draw it has over its main rival, Eelektross, is that it has much better Speed, access to Motor Drive, and an incredible movepool allowing it to take down many common walls such as Blissey and Ferrothorn. It also got a new physical STAB move in Wild Charge this generation, meaning it is no longer reliant on the weak Thunderpunch.</p>

    <p>However, underwhelming stats,(remove) no new toys, and a reliance on Motor Drive really hammers the nails in Electivire's coffin. It will be difficult finding a slot for it on your team, and there is almost always a better option available. His wide movepool and ability to run an effective mixed set just doesn't impress as much when compared to the sheer power of newer threats such as Scrafty or Conkeldurr.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Mixed Attacker
    move 1: Thunderbolt
    move 2: Cross Chop
    move 3: Hidden Power Ice
    move 4: Flamethrower
    item: Life Orb / Expert Belt
    nature: Mild
    ability: Motor Drive
    evs: 40 Atk / 252 SpA / 216 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]
    <p>Electivire works best on the premise that low power can be made up for with incredible coverage. This may be true to a point, but in reality, Electivire needs that Life Orb to really eke the most out of its movepool. There are no questions about it&mdash;this set either needs Agility or Rock Polish Baton Passed to it, or Electivire needs to be switched in on a Choice-locked Electric-type attack. Without that increase in Speed, Electivire will be taken out by a good chunk of the metagame before it even starts launching attacks.</p>

    <p>That isn't to say Electivire is useless&mdash;under the right conditions, it has the potential to wreak havoc. With incredible coverage, Expert Belt becomes a viable choice, not that Electivire enjoys the extra bulk. Even though its offensive stats may not be sky-high, they are still good enough to take down many common attackers in the metagame, such as Salamence and Gyarados. It's worth noting that more of the emphasis is on Special Attack, and that's mainly due to the fact that ubiquity of Intimidate, the prevalence of high Defense Pokemon such as Ferrothorn and Gliscor, and quite simply a coincidence in that most of the big threats of the metagame have a lower Special Defense. However, Cross Chop still has its uses here and there, but in most cases, Thunderbolt is a better option than Thunderpunch. A similar story is with Flamethrower,(remove) and Hidden Power Ice.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>Electivire needs some serious team support&mdash;aside from the obvious problems with its Speed, it also has problems in regards to outright killing its targets. Entry hazards is are almost a must, and measures must be taken to keep you should include counters to Electivire's common switch-ins. Latias and Rotom-W in particular will give Electivire some real problems, being able to tank its hits and retaliate with either Dragon Pulse or Will-o-Wisp Will-O-Wisp, respectively. If Electivire is without a Speed boost, then suddenly it becomes a sitting duck for so many sweepers,(comma) such as Landorus and Salamence, threats it could previously otherwise easily KO with Hidden Power Ice. There are no other real options for moves, apart from Hidden Power Grass to hit Gastrodon and Swampert. Life Orb will give Electivire the power it needs to deal damage, but the difference choice between it and Expert Belt are is purely preference-based negligible; Electivire losing 10% health a turn almost makes up for the fact that he's dealing more damage. The EVs and nature make the set as offensive as possible.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Physical Attacker
    move 1: Wild Bolt
    move 2: Ice Punch
    move 3: Fire Punch / Earthquake
    move 4: Cross Chop
    item: Life Orb / Expert Belt
    nature: Adamant
    ability: Motor Drive
    evs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Electivire may have more success with a mixed set, but its highest stat is Attack, and that's not to say with a bit of imagination it would can be an effective physical attacker. In fact, by focusing all of its offensive prowess into a single stat, it can function more effectively in certain conditions. Of course, Electivire still retains the problem problems of lacking Speed and sheer force, and in some cases this is emphasized in that a lot more of the tanks in OU are defensive. Whereas a mixed Electivire only has to deal with Blissey through Cross Chop, a purely physical Electivire may have enhanced difficulties breaking through Forretress or Scrafty. Despite this, it can still function with the right support, provided certain menacing threats are taken out, such as Landorus and Gliscor. Wild Charge takes place of Thunderbolt, Ice Punch comes in over Hidden Power, and Fire Punch replaces Flamethrower. Aside from the fact that your KO list has changed, this set plays similarly to the mixed attacker.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>It's worth noting that having shifted to a different attacking stat, any problems with Electivire on your side of play remain the same&mdash;subpar Speed, predictability, and lack of power. What does change is the number and types of options your opponent now have. Blissey is no longer a safe switch, and Cloyster now has three moves to switch in on. Conkeldurr is now more questionable, but Metagross is still capable. Electivire simply requires smart play from the player in that you need to know what will give Electivire problems and eliminate those problems before Electivire cleans up. Earthquake becomes an option, as it is always a solid attack, but there isn't much change aren't many other changes to be made. Aside from this, Electivire plays just like any other physical sweeper would&mdash;max Attack and Speed, power-boosting item, four attacks, and you're done.</p>

    [Other Options]
    <p>Rock Slide can be sneaked in over Ice Punch if used alongside Earthquake for coverage reasons, but the fall in damage against Salamence and Landorus is noticable. Thunder can be used instead of Thunderbolt on the mixed set if Electivire is serving in a Rain Dance team; the Water-typed teammates will also lure Electric-type moves for Electivire to grab his Motor Drive off. Choice Band and Choice Scarf can be effective, but when the main draw is incredible type coverage, it isn't such a good idea.</p>

    <p>Electivire can really do well from a Baton Passed stat boosts, especially from Gorebyss, who can give it its much-needed offensive and Speed Boost with Shell Smash. On top of its this, its Water-typing draws Thunder Wave and Thunderbolt from all around, setting Electivire at ridiculous speed Speed levels. In terms of defensive support, anything that resists Earthquake and strong priority is considered a reasonable teammate. The need to eliminate pesky opponents such as Metagross and Salamence still lingers, but a bulky teammate should be able to wear them down so that Electivire can whack them on the switch next time. Apart from this, entry hazards are always useful.</p>

    [Why?]

    [Counters and Checks] [Checks and Counters]
    <p>Due to its insane coverage, Electivire has no real counters, as everything that switches in on it is more than likely suspect susceptible to a super effective hit. Toxicroak and Tyranitar can come in on anything that isn't Fire-type or STABed, respectively, and proceed to shred Electivire with their powerful STAB moves. Mienshao and Infernape also prove problems due to their high Speed and strong attacks. Without a Motor Drive boost, Electivire becomes a minor threat, as pretty much everything outspeeds it. If it does accelerate, however, then being able to survive two strikes becomes very important, as outspeeding Electivire without a Choice Scarf becomes near impossible. Latias is capable to holding her own, and most Choice Scarf attackers should be able to weaken Electivire if not outright KO it.</p>


    Oh I got 20 acres
    And you got 43
    Now I've got a brand new combine harvester
    And I'll give you the key

    [​IMG]
  17. Nexus

    Nexus Day 358: Believe
    is a member of the Site Staffis a Super Moderatoris a Contributor to Smogon
    Wi-Fi Commissioner

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2009
    Messages:
    2,780
    being taken over by NixHex
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Users Viewing Thread (Users: 0, Guests: 0)